Interesting - please read. Changed my mind

[MarkVI]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...ubmed_RVDocSum

I also read Alan's research review on this same study....


Needless to say, I don't think I will be coming back to a ketosis diet.

[Ryanmcd]

**** starter, Don't make me get the big bad Canadian!

[soundcheck129]

"...the KLC diet was associated with several adverse metabolic and emotional effects. The use of ketogenic diets for weight loss is not warranted."

That's disturbing. Nice link.

[ChicagoChef]

I dunno. Everything has its pros and cons...

[soundcheck129]

And, granted, whatever works for you personally is what you should stick with.

[-Aaron-]

Mark FTW...

[Nutir]

Mark FTW...

x2


Although I didn't do keto for the metabolic advantage.

[MarkVI]

Mark FTW...

Alan Aragon FTMFW .

I've already wasted SO much time with his Reviews ahahaa....well, not wasted.

[bambifox]

Hmmm...interesting article. I completely AGREE with its findings. However, IMHO, Keto is better for folk who still have yet to gain control over their eating addictions/cravings. By limiting your carbohydrates...thereby forcing your body into ketosis...you eliminate if not completely those cravings for foods like doughnuts, cakes, cookies and pies If for nothing else...THIS IMO, still makes KETO (KLC) the superior over regular low-carb diets. Don't believe me...try eating a "palmsize" full of the highest quality whole wheat PASTA...and tell me you didn't want more With the elimination of this little treat...you won't be pacing the frig/pantry in a panic to eat it.

Just my 2 cents though Great article though!

[bogdog311]

So Mark I pretty much take everything you say and run with it, so what do you think about days where fats are high, for instance non-work out days, and days where they are lower around 30, keeping carbs higher around 40-50 for work out days. Making sure to eat the carbs around work out times? Assuming this is for cutting purposes I ask because surely you wouldnt be able to remain in ketosis long enough to undergo the adverse side affects correct? Well the ones that this study links Keto to anyways....

Man this changes my whole perspective... sorta...

[MarkVI]

Hmmm...interesting article. I completely AGREE with its findings. However, IMHO, Keto is better for folk who still have yet to gain control over their eating addictions/cravings. By limiting your carbohydrates...thereby forcing your body into ketosis...you eliminate if not completely those cravings for foods like doughnuts, cakes, cookies and pies If for nothing else...THIS IMO, still makes KETO (KLC) the superior over regular low-carb diets. Don't believe me...try eating a "palmsize" full of the highest quality whole wheat PASTA...and tell me you didn't want more With the elimination of this little treat...you won't be pacing the frig/pantry in a panic to eat it.

Just my 2 cents though Great article though!

I agree with this 100% ^^^^ Something about Ketosis takes these cravings and thoughts about food. However if you have developed self control with food, I don't see a need. I really should have made that point in my first post....

[mar999]

nice post man... kind of makes me feel better about the approach i have been taking... I consider my diet low carb rather than ketogenic. I try to keep carbs low but dont really care if i enter ketosis or not

[Ryanmcd]

Same man, up the caffine eat good stuff. If you are into watching what you eat you will do a type of keto anyway. Look at food and think "How will this make me better" and you will stick with real foods not **** foods. I still love steak and chicken and dont care for sweets. But I do eat 60-80g carbs a day and don't know if I am keto or not, what I do know is I feel great, am losing fat as well as sleeping better.

[pointz54]

Nice find, my diet was slowly evolving towards a TKD/carb cycling anyways since CKD I found was not really cutting it.

[MarkVI]

So Mark I pretty much take everything you say and run with it, so what do you think about days where fats are high, for instance non-work out days, and days where they are lower around 30, keeping carbs higher around 40-50 for work out days.
Man this changes my whole perspective... sorta...

My #1 issue with Keto is the carbup - I think it's a horrible mental thing TBH. I think the carbup should be avoided at all costs....so a low carb diet, maybe 20% with a 40% carb day would be optimal for fat loss and performance.

nice post man... kind of makes me feel better about the approach i have been taking... I consider my diet low carb rather than ketogenic. I try to keep carbs low but dont really care if i enter ketosis or not

I am low carb, but I also carb cycle....No carbups, no refeeds, no crazy "bro-science tactics" that just promote and justify messed up thinking.

Same man, up the caffine eat good stuff. If you are into watching what you eat you will do a type of keto anyway. Look at food and think "How will this make me better" and you will stick with real foods not **** foods. I still love steak and chicken and dont care for sweets. But I do eat 60-80g carbs a day and don't know if I am keto or not, what I do know is I feel great, am losing fat as well as sleeping better.

Good for you bro!

Nice find, my diet was slowly evolving towards a TKD/carb cycling anyways since CKD I found was not really cutting it.

This is good, no need for a big dumb carbup.

[jked4life]

Hmmm...interesting article. I completely AGREE with its findings. However, IMHO, Keto is better for folk who still have yet to gain control over their eating addictions/cravings. By limiting your carbohydrates...thereby forcing your body into ketosis...you eliminate if not completely those cravings for foods like doughnuts, cakes, cookies and pies If for nothing else...THIS IMO, still makes KETO (KLC) the superior over regular low-carb diets. Don't believe me...try eating a "palmsize" full of the highest quality whole wheat PASTA...and tell me you didn't want more With the elimination of this little treat...you won't be pacing the frig/pantry in a panic to eat it.

Just my 2 cents though Great article though!

I think you really hit the nail on the head here. It is great for people to help get cravings under control. Keto can help a lot of people out in this respect.

IMO, for athletes (those of us serious in the gym) it is not optimal. Exercise performance is simply better with some carbs in the diet.

I've found no adverse effects going back to a carb diet, only positive effects on performance in the gym/cardio.

I think the biggest problem with carb based diets is how easily one can overeat. I find I am satisfied with carbs if I stick to actual portion sizes. However, it would be very easy to overeat if I wasn't paying attention.



Mark is right, the carbup is the most ridiculous thing to me. It screws so many people up on many levels.


Overall- I think keto is great for the average person, if they are interested in this way of eating. For active people concerned about exercise performance, I'm not so keen on it.

[tonymagnolia]

Man... being only 5 days into CKD, that article and proceeding comments have f**ked with my head already...

So confused! Need lose body fat! Must smash things!

[mar999]

Yeah I liked ckd but the carbups were so hard for me to control. I would keep them to 12 hours tops usually

[taf1968]

Mark, do you have a link to Alan's review? Would love to read up on it.

In my case, keto was going to be a no-go moving forward anyway because of the dietary restrictions I am working around from my kidney stone incident. I had moved on to try carb-cycling anyway, but thought if it didn't work out I may go back to TKD . . . which was great. But not really an option now.

I had really good luck with a slightly modified South Beach approach a couple years ago. That might be my other option if the carb cycling doesn't fit very well. Still too early to tell.

Anyway, thanks for posting that . . . gotta spread some reps around before I can hit you again!

[bambifox]

I really don't do "carb up" weekends. I just do "carb up" meals...if you will. My body usually lets me know when it needs carbs...which is usually right before or after a workout. For example...yesterday evening..late...I just felt an intense desire for some fried chicken (yes, breaded), and some Fiber One Cereal (43%). I ate a bowl of cereal with whole milk and 3 fried chicken legs. I did my cardio (35 min) and today was back in Keto. *EDIT* Uhhhh...forgot to mention...I DID also have another "late night" cardio session for a couple of hours when bf came over...that might have helped a bit too

I also agree that it's probably best to "time" your higher carb meals/foods around your cardio routine. This way you'll burn it right off. Also...carbs (starchy) are just plain bad IMHO right before bed...even if you choose to take the carbup weekend....which I agree with Mark that's its' both mentally and physically ridiculous!

Have a great weekend all!

[MarkVI]

Mark, do you have a link to Alan's review? Would love to read up on it.

In my case, keto was going to be a no-go moving forward anyway because of the dietary restrictions I am working around from my kidney stone incident. I had moved on to try carb-cycling anyway, but thought if it didn't work out I may go back to TKD . . . which was great. But not really an option now.

I had really good luck with a slightly modified South Beach approach a couple years ago. That might be my other option if the carb cycling doesn't fit very well. Still too early to tell.

Anyway, thanks for posting that . . . gotta spread some reps around before I can hit you again!

I do, but it's his hard work and he asks for a small tiny subscription fee....$10 a month! That's it! I say EVERYONE go to his website and sign up. There are 9 or 10 articles up that are 16 pages each on average....you will become smart .

So in other words, yes I do but I won't post it because it's not right.

[lorinelise]

I do, but it's his hard work and he asks for a small tiny subscription fee....$10 a month! That's it! I say EVERYONE go to his website and sign up. There are 9 or 10 articles up that are 16 pages each on average....you will become smart .

So in other words, yes I do but I won't post it because it's not right.

Strong X 2!! Waxy maize 4 lyfe

[MarkVI]

Strong X 2!! Waxy maize 4 lyfe

Waxy Maize + BCAAIZ to prevent teh catabolizm! Oh - nice rep count

[lorinelise]

Waxy Maize + BCAAIZ to prevent teh catabolizm! Oh - nice rep count

BCAA's between meals...always...which, btw, MUST be 2-3 hours apart.

Oh and thanks Wonder how I got that?!

[MarkVI]

BCAA's between meals...always...which, btw, MUST be 2-3 hours apart.

Oh and thanks Wonder how I got that?!

2-3?! I was doing a meal every 35.1022049484 minutes I'z losing gainz or gettin fatz!?



I think you got em the same way I did....good man...good man.

[mar999]

Mark explain to me in laymans term what you perceive to be the negatives they are pointing out in regards to ketosis

[MarkVI]

Mark explain to me in laymans term what you perceive to be the negatives they are pointing out in regards to ketosis

Not negatives -- but the fact that there is no POSITIVE in comparison and the fact that carbups are required on KETO for athletes.

[pointz54]

After further review, the people that were tested in that study had an average BMI of 34.4 +/- 1.0

That is horrifically obese. Quite literally, that's like 60-80 pounds overweight. I think we can all agree that cutting calories, whether through ketosis or a low-carb diet will result in weight loss no matter what.

It doesn't change my decision to switch to a TKD however, but I think I'll keep aiming for ketosis when I'm not working out.

[gbman13]

It says: participants were sedentary, and 24-h intakes were strictly controlled.

So who here is sedentary, isn't the idea of keto a protein sparing cut?

Who really tried keto thinking we can eat all the steak, read these forums and drop tons of weight?

From my reading it seems some think there is an idea that since fat is the main energy source in keto that its burning all this fat from bodyfat. That's probably more wishful thinking and this study probably just backs that up. I think its just saying Keto isn't a magic pill.

Damn, guess I'll hit the gym in the morning.

[lorinelise]

Actually when I read Alan's review on this article earlier today, I questioned the "sedentary" aspect of the study. You think the results may have been different with resistance training? I mean obviously they would be different, but maybe there would be more of a difference between the keto results and the non-keto?

I think Alan said he'd like to see a study including training. But based on this study, keto fails