The Strongest Man Of All Time

**Antaeus** · 04-04-2003, 01:39 PM

Originally posted by -T-
All i said is that they don't "look" like athletes...not that they arn't athletes or can't compete in athletics.

LOL- and you're complaining about stereotyping??

Originally posted by -T-

I also think you guys have too much hate for bodybuilders and what their goals are and anyone who looks like a bodybuilder you guys think poorly of.

No we don't. If you want to BB that's fine by me. Now you're stereotyping PLers again... lol

**BPP** · 04-04-2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by Antaeus
LOL- and you're complaining about stereotyping??

No we don't. If you want to BB that's fine by me. Now you're stereotyping PLers again... lol

LOL

so true

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by zackdarnell
What is your reasoning behind this?
Why do you say powerlifters are not atheletes, and how do you define "athelete"?

i just feel that athlete is a word reserved for someone who is good at all types of athletic events...weither it require speed, strength, endurence, or flexability in combination with co-ordination. And if you look at these types of people...most of them have low bf%.

Weightlifters only train for one aspect of athletics...strength. So at the very least i wouldn't call them just athletes but strength athletes (because *most* powerlifters and esp. olympic lifters are very good in the other aspects...but completely ignore them in their training).

**BPP** · 04-04-2003, 01:44 PM

what about strongmen
they combine all those and not all have low bodyfats at all

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by Antaeus
LOL- and you're complaining about stereotyping??

I am not sterotyping pl'ers or WSM...i *KNOW* that alot of them are obese...because i have seen them in pictures and on tv. So don't accuse me of anything when all i would have to do is type in "Worlds strongest man" and come back with 20 pictures of 20 different obese men trying to call themselves athletes.

No we don't. If you want to BB that's fine by me. Now you're stereotyping PLers again... lol

You don't dispise BB in anyway? Good to clear that up...so from now on i can expect you to never say anything bad about BB'ing ( i won't even talk about some of the past posts on this forum)?

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by bigpoppaproppy
what about strongmen
they combine all those and not all have low bodyfats at all

that is just my point...no they *don't* use all of those when competing... or training for that matter.

Speed... i don't see any 100m dashs in WSM

Endurance ... this is probably the worst one for WSM....i laugh at how some of you would probably type about dragging a 400 pound anchor 20 feet for rarely more than 30 seconds as quailfying as endurance. Try running 2 miles.

Strength...this is obviously where the strong men excel...look at the name for crying out loud! This is where they put 100% of their training and this is the only thing tested at WSM

Flexability... i doubt hardly anyone trains for this and this is probably the least important aspect of athleticism...but i still don't see any sit-and-reach tests on WSM...

also that guy is a mesomorph...so his fat is evenly distributed (except for a little extra around the lower torso)...but i would still guesstimate his bf% to be somewhere in the 30%'s.

**MJB** · 04-04-2003, 01:56 PM

I don't despise all bodybuilders, but just a few. Those who don't squat or squat properly. Those who do bis 3 days a week. And that covers 90% of you

. And those who call powerlifters fat.

MJB

**zackdarnell** · 04-04-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by -T-
Speed... i don't see any 100m dashs in WSM

No, but many events are timed...fastest time wins. Farmers walks, tire flip, carry and drag, etc. All speed.

Endurance ... this is probably the worst one for WSM....i laugh at how some of you would probably type about dragging a 400 pound anchor 20 feet for rarely more than 30 seconds as quailfying as endurance. Try running 2 miles.

You try dragging the anchor, then continuing on with 5-6 more events. Or perhaps a yoke/tire/drag medley. Strongman definitely requires endurance. And then there are the events that require muscular endurance....carries for distance, etc. Ive run 2 miles, and I've done a heavy medley...what required more endurance? The medley.

...this [strength] is the only thing tested at WSM

Im guessing you have never done any strongman training, have you?

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by MJB
I don't despise all bodybuilders, but just a few. Those who don't squat or squat properly. Those who do bis 3 days a week. And that covers 90% of you . And those who call powerlifters fat.

MJB

I actually don't care if any of you dispise BB'ers at all, i don't agree with their philosophies on training one bit.

I was just trying to show that Antaeus had a hidden agenda in his arguments.

**Ironsword** · 04-04-2003, 01:59 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by -T-
i just feel that athlete is a word reserved for someone who is good at all types of athletic events

Well, by that definition even Michael Jordan is not an athlete, as he's not really too good at baseball. Babe Ruth didn't look like he was in all that good of shape, I think most people would say he was an athlete. William "The Refrigerator" Perry was pretty fat, yet he was a professional football player, which tends to make me think he he was an athlete.

As for the world's strongest man ever, I'd say it is not anyone that's currently alive, probably some warrior noone's heard of from back when people fought hand to hand. Then there was really a reason to be the strongest, other than to just show off.

**BPP** · 04-04-2003, 02:02 PM

Originally posted by -T-
that is just my point...no they *don't* use all of those when competing... or training for that matter.

Speed... i don't see any 100m dashs in WSM

Endurance ... this is probably the worst one for WSM....i laugh at how some of you would probably type about dragging a 400 pound anchor 20 feet for rarely more than 30 seconds as quailfying as endurance. Try running 2 miles.

Strength...this is obviously where the strong men excel...look at the name for crying out loud! This is where they put 100% of their training and this is the only thing tested at WSM

Flexability... i doubt hardly anyone trains for this and this is probably the least important aspect of athleticism...but i still don't see any sit-and-reach tests on WSM...

also that guy is a mesomorph...so his fat is evenly distributed (except for a little extra around the lower torso)...but i would still guesstimate his bf% to be somewhere in the 30%'s.

yeah
speed doesntmatter at all

I mean, the events that are for time dont count do they? not at all

endurance->2 miles is a joke compared to a contest
try going event to event fll body workout for the whole day. Try doing a medly of a tire flip, yoke carry and anchor drag

100% training itno power eh? you have no ****ing clue at all
the guy in the pic is Brian SChoonveld, my second cousin
he does cardio multiple times per week to work on endurance/speed

also you dont think felxibilitt is an issue eh
yeah its not like bein a gymnast, but if you wertent somewhatflexibile then how do you do keg toss, atlas stones, etc
youd tear a hamstring like that

youve never trained it so how would you know

and thats my point
he was the top guy in america 2 years ina row, but you dont see him runnin around at a low bodyfat

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by zackdarnell
No, but many events are timed...fastest time wins. Farmers walks, tire flip, carry and drag, etc. All speed.

You try dragging the anchor, then continuing on with 5-6 more events. Or perhaps a yoke/tire/drag medley. Strongman definitely requires endurance.

Im guessing you have never done any strongman training, have you?

See..this is exactly what i'm talking about. Yes...these are all satisfy the criteria for the basic elements of athleticism...but only relative to lifting weights...which is what WSM is all about.

Speed...they are timed....so what? All that means is who can *lift the weight the fastest*...there is no competition for who can move the fastest IE who can run the fastest...who can run to that line, touch it, run the the next line, etc., the fastest.

Endurance...you actually didn't even put an argument there...only implied that i couldn't do a carry/drag event (and i doubt you could eitehr...it is very challenging physically and mentally). Those types of events are endurence....relative to lifting weights. Who can lift the heavy weight the longest (rarely over a minute or 100 feet for the africa stone thing).

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by bigpoppaproppy
yeah
speed doesntmatter at all I mean, the events that are for time dont count do they? not at all

endurance->2 miles is a joke compared to a contest
try going event to event fll body workout for the whole day. Try doing a medly of a tire flip, yoke carry and anchor drag

100% training itno power eh? you have no ****ing clue at all
the guy in the pic is Brian SChoonveld, my second cousin
he does cardio multiple times per week to work on endurance/speed

also you dont think felxibilitt is an issue eh
yeah its not like bein a gymnast, but if you wertent somewhatflexibile then how do you do keg toss, atlas stones, etc
youd tear a hamstring like that

youve never trained it so how would you know

and thats my point
he was the top guy in america 2 years ina row, but you dont see him runnin around at a low bodyfat

ok fine...your cousin is quite a good athlete (i can see why you are taking personal offense to this thread now)...in fact, a better athlete than me.

But he doesn't look like an athlete.

Which was all i was trying to say.

**zackdarnell** · 04-04-2003, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by -T-
Speed...they are timed....so what? All that means is who can *lift the weight the fastest*...there is no competition for who can move the fastest IE who can run the fastest...who can run to that line, touch it, run the the next line, etc., the fastest.

No. It is not "who can lift the weight the fastest." It is who can move the fastest, while carrying the weight.

Endurance...you actually didn't even put an argument there...only implied that i couldn't do a carry/drag event (and i doubt you could eitehr...it is very challenging physically and mentally). Those types of events are endurence....relative to lifting weights. Who can lift the heavy weight the longest (rarely over a minute or 100 feet for the africa stone thing).

I never implied you couldnt do it, i just told you to try it, so you would see how it requires endurance. And I actually have done a carry/drag event. It was a yoke/tire flip/sled pull.

You show me a strongman competitor who does not train for speed and endurance, and I will show you a competitor who will never be Worlds Strongest Man.

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 02:08 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ironsword

Originally posted by -T-
i just feel that athlete is a word reserved for someone who is good at all types of athletic events

Well, by that definition even Michael Jordan is not an athlete, as he's not really too good at baseball. Babe Ruth didn't look like he was in all that good of shape, I think most people would say he was an athlete. William "The Refrigerator" Perry was pretty fat, yet he was a professional football player, which tends to make me think he he was an athlete.

As for the world's strongest man ever, I'd say it is not anyone that's currently alive, probably some warrior noone's heard of from back when people fought hand to hand. Then there was really a reason to be the strongest, other than to just show off.

Michael Jordan had plenty of athletic ability to be good at baseball...but he lacked the co-ordination that comes from playing 200+ games a year for 25+ years in the florida sun (ok that was a stereotype). Jordan looks like an athlete.

Ruth...no way. That guy was a pig. But he had plenty of strength and i've heard he was actually fairly fast for his size.

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by zackdarnell
No. It is not "who can lift the weight the fastest." It is who can move the fastest, while carrying the weight.

"while carrying the weight"...do i even need to say anything more?

I never imlplied you couldnt do it, i just told you to try it, so you would see how it requires endurance. And I actually have done a carry/drag event. It was a yoke/tire flip/sled pull.

maybe someday i'll try it...not right now though. All i was trying to imply is that endurance is continually moving for a long period of time. The carry/drag type events...while considered endurance for WSM...rarely last over a minute which is approx. the same time as a 400m run...which is a sprint. As for lifting all day at competition?! In your dreams...you may be AT the competition all day...but i bet the total time you spend doing the lifts is not more than 10 minutes in an all day comp.

**zackdarnell** · 04-04-2003, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by -T-
Ruth...no way.

So your saying he wasnt an athlete?

**Antaeus** · 04-04-2003, 02:13 PM

Originally posted by -T-
I am not sterotyping pl'ers or WSM...i *KNOW* that alot of them are obese...because i have seen them in pictures and on tv.

Are you a doctor? Have you taken bf measurements? You haven't even seen them in person!! Oh, but in your esteemed opinion you *know* they are obese. LOL.

Originally posted by -T-

So don't accuse me of anything when all i would have to do is type in "Worlds strongest man" and come back with 20 pictures of 20 different obese men trying to call themselves athletes.

And this proves...what? "Trying" to call themselves athletes? So in your opinion strongman isn't a sport?

Sorry, your arguments are internally inconsistent.

Originally posted by -T-

You don't dispise BB in anyway? Good to clear that up...so from now on i can expect you to never say anything bad about BB'ing ( i won't even talk about some of the past posts on this forum)?

You think I hate on ppl just because they annoy me? Lots of ppl annoy me, but they're still free to do what they want and I'm still free to complain about it.

What past posts? I think most PLers in here just want to do their thing w/o being bothered by BBers and their annoying ways.

**Antaeus** · 04-04-2003, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by -T-

I was just trying to show that Antaeus had a hidden agenda in his arguments.

LMAO - and what would that be, pray tell?

**Hat** · 04-04-2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by -T-

But he doesn't look like an athlete.

Which was all i was trying to say.

And I think everyone else is merely saying there is not a stereotypical "look" to athletes. Athleticism is not a beauty or health contest. It is purely function.

**Antaeus** · 04-04-2003, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by Hat
And I think everyone else is merely saying there is not a stereotypical "look" to athletes. Athleticism is not a beauty or health contest. It is purely function.

I couldn't of summed it up better. In order to succeed, athletes need to specify to their individual sports. As there are many sports with different purposes, athletes will vary in size and shape. There may not even be much in common between them, except that they are the best at that particular sport. What about horse racing? That's one of the oldest sports. Jockeys are usually midget-sized. As such, they wouldn't do well in basketball and Jordan wouldn't do so well in racing horses!!! Yet they are both athletes.

**BPP** · 04-04-2003, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by -T-
[B the total time you spend doing the lifts is not more than 10 minutes in an all day comp. [/B]

same as the total minutes actually spent moving in football
or baseball

those are mainly stand around too

quick outburst
stand around

how much time do most guys use at a track meet, say a sprinter?
not alot

**Lunatic** · 04-04-2003, 02:55 PM

This thread has pissed me off.... How the hell can someone say PLer's are NOT athletes? I think they are more of an athlete than BBers and this is coming from a BBer.

-T-, ok look up the word "Athlete" in the dictionary and I bet you will not see the words low bodyfat in the definition. Also, in an earlier post you said Sumo wrestlers have a BF% of 25? And said that Schoonvield(sp? sorry) had a 30%?! That makes NO sense since Brian has A LOT more muscle compared to MOST sumo wrestlers. PLers might have a little bit of fat but have a **** load of muscle. They could easily be a better "athlete"(by your definition) if they wanted to but since they are practicing their SPORT they don't have a desire or need to. PLer's are most definately athletes.

GreenBay*HC* · 04-04-2003, 03:18 PM

this is a little off the discussion path but it feels good to be from wisconsin - gots garry frank and kaz from here.

All the farm work pays off in the end i guess

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by Lunatic
This thread has pissed me off.... How the hell can someone say PLer's are NOT athletes? I think they are more of an athlete than BBers and this is coming from a BBer.

-T-, ok look up the word "Athlete" in the dictionary and I bet you will not see the words low bodyfat in the definition. Also, in an earlier post you said Sumo wrestlers have a BF% of 25? And said that Schoonvield(sp? sorry) had a 30%?! That makes NO sense since Brian has A LOT more muscle compared to MOST sumo wrestlers. PLers might have a little bit of fat but have a **** load of muscle. They could easily be a better "athlete"(by your definition) if they wanted to but since they are practicing their SPORT they don't have a desire or need to. PLer's are most definately athletes.

Oh my...where do i even start?

Ok first of all...i started out saying that alot of PL'ers and WSM competitors don't look like athletes because they have high bf%. Then people started saying when does bf% have anything to do with strength. Then i said nothing, but i didn't think that they looked like athletes. Then i said that i didn't think pl'er and wsm fit my definition of athlete because they don't train for the main 4 aspects of athleticism, they only train strength. Then people were trying to feed me BS that WSM do train for speed (since they are being time at how quickly they can move a giant weight) and endurance (because they compete in a medaly event of carrying huge weights followed by dragging even bigger weights for a grand total time of about a minute). So i said no because they don't train for or compete in any true speed (100m dash) or endurance (3200m or more likely a 5k run) (along the way we totally dropped PL'ers since we all know the only thing they train with is weights...and we dropped the flexability arguement because all PL'ers and WSM have at least basic flexability or, as one person put it, they would tear a hamstrong doing a squat (not that that has ever happened before...). So i said that PL'er and WSM should have a special word for them or at the least should be called "strength athletes" because that is the only aspect they train. And from there i seemed to get alot of personally bashing from Anteaus and others (lunatic - i never said that that sumo was 25%bf...what i meant to say is that the guy bench pressing in the picture was 25% bf).

So let me just make some general statements to reiterate what i mean:

- I personally think that WSM and PL'ers who have high levels of BF do not look like athletes, but that doesn't mean they are not athletes.

- I think to be called an athlete you should train all 4 parts of athleticism(speed, strength, endurance, flexability) with equal intensity and you should be somewhat able to compete at any sport with a decent amount of ability. Thus, PL'ers and WSM are not all-around athletes ****IMO****. They deserve their own term...something like "strength-athlete" (which seems apropriate to me because they only train strength but still somewhat posses ability in the other 3 areas).

Those two statements above all others are what i mean and i think pretty much sum up what i was trying to express in the past 20 or so posts. Thats all.

Also i'm sadened that so many people take such personal offense on such a "radical" idea when i tried to polietly express it. Would you rather have had some flamer come on here and say "you fat a** PL'ers suck! I could kick your slow, fat a**es any day!" ?? No, i would think not.

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by Antaeus
Are you a doctor? Have you taken bf measurements? You haven't even seen them in person!! Oh, but in your esteemed opinion you *know* they are obese. LOL.

No i'm not a doctor (obviously)...but since when do you have to be a doctor to take or guesstimate bf%? Maybe in your fantasy world you have to be...

And this proves...what? "Trying" to call themselves athletes? So in your opinion strongman isn't a sport?

Sorry, your arguments are internally inconsistent.

It proves that alot of PL'ers and WSM competitors are obese! Ya think!?! The second comment was more directed at bigpoppaproppy who was trying to defend WSM and saying that they train and compete in speed and endurance events. In my opinion, WSM is definately a sport, as it powerlifting, and olympic lifting.

You think I hate on ppl just because they annoy me? Lots of ppl annoy me, but they're still free to do what they want and I'm still free to complain about it. What past posts? I think most PLers in here just want to do their thing w/o being bothered by BBers and their annoying ways.

Well you obviously hate on BB'ers. I'm not trying to defend them...but i don't like it when agendas are woven into arguments for unrelated topics. I am not a BB, btw.

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 05:41 PM

Originally posted by Hat
And I think everyone else is merely saying there is not a stereotypical "look" to athletes. Athleticism is not a beauty or health contest. It is purely function.

The body of an athlete doesn't need a certain shape, or height, or even beauty. But IMO, atheltes naturally, through training all 4 aspects, have bodies with low bf. Low bf also helps with all-around athleticism because you won't ahve to run or jump with all the extra baggage.

**FortifiedIron** · 04-04-2003, 05:43 PM

The best athlete: Shanne Hamman.. 38'' vertical, can dunk a basketball, do a standing back flip, snatch 400+lbs, clean and jerk 510+lbs, has a 350yrd golf drive, has a handicap of 8 in golf, and can jump on a 48'' box with 1 step. Did i mention he was 5'9'' 350lbs?

You know that big ole 465lb Tilt Henry that everyone calls fat? I bet he can can out jump anybody in this forum... that includes the bb forum.. steroid forum..etc.. he has an amazing 42"+ vertical!

These men arnt much to look at.. but they are insanly athletic.. and are athlete's!

Kc

**lilmuscleman** · 04-04-2003, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by FortifiedIron
The best athlete: Shanne Hamman.. 38'' vertical, can dunk a basketball, do a standing back flip, snatch 400+lbs, clean and jerk 510+lbs, has a 350yrd golf drive, has a handicap of 8 in golf, and can jump on a 48'' box with 1 step. Did i mention he was 5'9'' 350lbs?

You know that big ole 465lb Tilt Henry that everyone calls fat? I bet he can can out jump anybody in this forum... that includes the bb forum.. steroid forum..etc.. he has an amazing 42"+ vertical!

These men arnt much to look at.. but they are insanly athletic.. and are athlete's!

Kc

so true...but oddly enough you MUST have a low bf% in order to be an athlete? someone has been watching too many movies lol

**-T-** · 04-04-2003, 05:57 PM

What is so hard for you guys to consider that there are THREE...THREE!!!!!!!! *other* aspects of athleticism than muscular strength?!?!?

i must admit..i am VERY impressed with Mr. Hamman's muscular strength...he must train for strength quite a bit. But two things...first (although at a body weight of 350, this would be a long shot) it is still possible that Mr Hamman has a low bf%. You forgot to include it in your stats. But more importantly...what is Mr. Hamman's time in 100m dash or 5k? Probably not so amazing.

Mr. Hamman is the very definition of what i would call a "strength-athlete"...he excels above and beyond in the strength catogory, but neglects the other two catogories that would make him an all-around athlete. 350 pounds eh? That can't be very good on the heart either...let alone 465 (i gotta see this guy).

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