why do PT's hardly ever make their client do the basic lifts

[ThatArmyKid]

i always see pt's using some of the weirdest exercises with their clients but never using the basic lifts (except bench they will use this one of course)

common we all know bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench are some of the most effective exercises for a number of people with different goals so what gives?

[timperry]

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

i always see pt's using some of the weirdest exercises with their clients but never using the basic lifts (except bench they will use this one of course)

common we all know bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench are some of the most effective exercises for a number of people with different goals so what gives?

Safety! Most trainers have cookie cutter workout routines. Simple and safe. Some trainers dont even do the basic lifts, so if they cant do it, they are certainly not going to have their clients do them

[JH34PG]

i had great workouts that worked...and i got criticism for my boss for not making it "dynamic" enough...@ssholes...

[pstewart310]

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

i always see pt's using some of the weirdest exercises with their clients but never using the basic lifts (except bench they will use this one of course)

common we all know bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench are some of the most effective exercises for a number of people with different goals so what gives?

I've always wondered that...I have two theories:

#1: They don't know ****, just the crap they read in BS magazines like muscle and fitness, etc.

#2: They don't want their clients making too good of gains too fast - those exercises will do that if done right - they need to keep them coming back to make that $$. Once you teach someone the basics (bench, deads, squats, rows, etc) they don't need continual training. But if you have them do all these weird isolation exercises or ones that require two people, they will have to keep coming back.

[ThatArmyKid]

for every 100 personal trainers 1 of them is a good

or something like that but ive never seen a pt have his client do a deadlift

[DaBurg3r]

I had a trainer that loved having me do deadlifts till a puked, got my bench up to something decent, and was like "bent over rows will teach you shame!"

[ThatArmyKid]

Originally Posted by DaBurg3r

I had a trainer that loved having me do deadlifts till a puked, got my bench up to something decent, and was like "bent over rows will teach you shame!"

cool PT

[Diesel 7]

A majority of clients have underlying issues that you are unaware of! Thats why trainers may stay away from basic lifts. For example I would train a football player completely differently then how I would train a client with hypertension, or an overwieght/obese, or athritis or any other condition.

The fact of the matter is that every client has different goals and different needs. So there is no "fixed cookie cutter" routine that is given to every person. There is alot of consideration that is placed into creating a plan for a client.

[BC02]

Because most gyms push the client having "fun" over getting results. Most directors seem to think that if potential clients see a trainer doing the basics with a client that they wouldnt be having"fun" if they were to work with that trainer thus no sale. This is where all the "dynamic"crap comes in. They want potential clients to see the trainers doing unusual "fun" exercises instead of the tough basics(squat, DL, heavy bench etc) because they think thats what the potential clients would want(or more correctly be more willing to buy) so they push their trainers in that direction

[Diesel 7]

Just a couple things to add.

Clients with underlying conditions (a majoirty of clients) would be put at risk with the above mentioned compound movements. Not that they don't work becuase they do, but in most cases we need to get the client to a point where they could be able to do the exercise safely.

Not all clients are in top physical condition, thus is one reason the elected to hire a personal trainer.

And many trainers pride themselves with the success of their client. That is because when they succeed so do we. The best advertising in our industry is by word of mouth, so a happy client helps bring in more clients meaning more possible $.

There are those trainers out there that bring shame to the game, but that is the same as in any profession so please don't degrade us all based on the actions of the few.

[Diesel 7]

Originally Posted by BC02

Because most gyms push the client having "fun" over getting results. Most directors seem to think that if potential clients see a trainer doing the basics with a client that they wouldnt be having"fun" if they were to work with that trainer thus no sale. This is where all the "dynamic"crap comes in. They want potential clients to see the trainers doing unusual "fun" exercises instead of the tough basics(squat, DL, heavy bench etc) because they think thats what the potential clients would want(or more correctly be more willing to buy) so they push their trainers in that direction

The attitude of the client makes it fun, and not the exercises. You can have some crazy cool exercises and if the client has a **** attitude then it doesn't matter how hard you tried to make it fun, it won't be.

[BC02]

Originally Posted by Diesel 7

The attitude of the client makes it fun, and not the exercises. You can have some crazy cool exercises and if the client has a **** attitude then it doesn't matter how hard you tried to make it fun, it won't be.

yes some have bad attitudes no matter what, but it seems like most potential clients would rather do the"cool" stuff over the "hard" stuff. Thats why I always did what was "best for the client getting their desired results" then "what they thought looked cool" If they didnt like what I was doing with them, then they could go work with one of those "fun"trainers. I didnt have the most clients, but one could tell when one was mine, because mine were the ones who got the results which was more importatnt to me than trying to "entertain" them.

[Arte_Suave]

Not a PT yet, but maybe they are just following the OPT model? Fixing muscle imbalances before they move onto strength training? Just a thought.

[DeezNuutz]

No brainer

[ExtremeEnigma]

you have to put yourself in their shoes. most people on this board including myself could do barbell squats, deads, presses, rows etc every day and be happy and content. but for the average person who is not as interested in working out, this is BORING.

yes, a solid program based on the above lifts would produce fast results for many people. but guess what? if the client doesn't come back for more than 1-2 sessions, then it doesn't matter. i can get much better results seeing someone for several months, so if i have to incorporate variety into the sessions, i'm damn sure gonna do it. a good trainer can get results using a well-rounded mix of just about anything, be it barbells, kettlebells, bands, body weight, machines, etc.

not to mention, the majority of personal training clients are female, and the majority of females probably would not feel comforable performing some of these "manly" movements. if they don't feel comfortable, they're not gonna enjoy it. and yes, they have to enjoy it at least a little bit or else they're gonna go to someone else.

that being said, when friends who are looking to start lifting come to me for a program, i almost always give them some variation of rippetoe's program for the first several months. and it always works like a charm. but these are young guys eager for strength and mass.

[Environ]

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

i always see pt's using some of the weirdest exercises with their clients but never using the basic lifts (except bench they will use this one of course)

common we all know bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench are some of the most effective exercises for a number of people with different goals so what gives?

For the record, I teach every client how to do all the basic lifts. Our gym doesn't have any fancy equipment or the room for the 200 stability balls and bosu balls and an equivalent number of people either falling off them or doing circus acts on them.

So, I stick to the basics. And, I don't differentiate between men and women either. Women do chin ups, squats and deadlifts too.

Some people get so caught up in fads and trying to look as if they have this great secret to physique that they forget about the tried and tested basic exercises. I'm glad to report that I am not on of those people. You could call me a traditionalist.

[bodykitboyz]

Very true about the silly looking exercises they do. Probably 80% of Clients have an injury they are just recovering from and cant or shouldnt jump into fun squats that work amazing or deadlifts. Every Client is treated differently unless coming off similair injuries.

[FreddyKrueger]

Corrective exercises first.

[kevinmahdi]

Most pt's try to introduce thier clients to a variety of different excercise, they can always do the basic things themselves, but most clients pay pt's for not only the results they desire, but also to be educated on new trends and to know if they are a vialble tool to use in their pursuit of a lifetime of fitness and not bore from doing just the basic things all the time.

Kevin Pt
ace, NFPT

[jamezgt]

Muscle imbalances? How can someone truly deadlift with an inhibited glute? It's not always about compound lifts.

[Al Shades]

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

i always see pt's using some of the weirdest exercises with their clients but never using the basic lifts (except bench they will use this one of course)

common we all know bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench are some of the most effective exercises for a number of people with different goals so what gives?

Most PT's out there are going "by the book". They aren't sophisticated or intelligent enough to develop their own training methodologies. So they go by whatever ACSM/NSCA/NASM tells them to use.

Now, as far as those organizations are concerned, they're a business. Their profit depends on coming up with new material to add to their curriculum every few years.

Here's the problem with the basic lifts: They've been around since forever. Everyone knows about them. They are boring and unappealing to beginners, who would much rather do something that is fun and looks cool than something bland which has been proven to bring results.

The newest and biggest trend in the industry now is all the "functional" BS. This is a big cash cow and it isn't going anywhere soon. It allows people to look "hip" by performing ridiculous exercises with outlandish equipment and it allows the certifying bodies to keep churning out new seminars, courses, DVD's and certifications every few months.

It's all business and it's all PR. If you follow the hype in this industry you get the impression that huge advances are being made every 6 months in our understanding of human physiology. That's a lie. In reality, there is nothing new. Practically everything that works has been around for many decades. There are some new tools that have come to market recently which have their use, but their impact is exaggerated by marketers who try to base entire training philosophies around these tools. This is a non-scientific way of approaching fitness. Exercise programming needs to be based around fundamental principles of human physiology, not on gimmicky things like swiss balls or bosu balls or kettlebells.

Look at the marketing images used by fitness organizations and see what types of exercises they're advertising. It's all stability ball stuff.

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

for every 100 personal trainers 1 of them is a good

or something like that but ive never seen a pt have his client do a deadlift

The same could be said of nearly any profession. Doctors are no different. There is a bell curve in life and most people fall within the mediocre range.

Originally Posted by DaBurg3r

I had a trainer that loved having me do deadlifts till a puked, got my bench up to something decent, and was like "bent over rows will teach you shame!"

That would get him fired from most commercial facilities.

[-Ironside-]

Originally Posted by ThatArmyKid

for every 100 personal trainers 1 of them is a good

or something like that but ive never seen a pt have his client do a deadlift

How many of their clients look like they can do DL's safely?
The majority of clients are female and a wider waist isn't something they would appreciate.
The top goal of most clients isn't to be buff and strong.
This is what I hear 90% of the time:

1. To lose weight
2. To tone up
3. Be healthier

Rarely will you ever get a client who says "I want to be a body builder" or "I want to be huge" because these people usually do it on their own.
Doing exercises like DL's for someone who really doesn't need to do them is silly and dangerous. Deads are way to easy to screw up and injure yourself.
PT's should NEVER try to hold their clients back and I've never met any who do, my goal is to get my clients to the point where they don't need me.

[Al Shades]

Originally Posted by Diesel 7

Clients with underlying conditions (a majoirty of clients) would be put at risk with the above mentioned compound movements. Not that they don't work becuase they do, but in most cases we need to get the client to a point where they could be able to do the exercise safely.

I would generally disagree with those, unless you are taking a very strict interpretation of the afore-mentioned exercises: bent rows, squats, deadlifts, military presses, dips, chins, and bench

There is no rule which states that a bench or squat has to be performed with a barbell in the conventional manner. A pushup is exactly the same movement as a bench. A back squat is exactly the same movement as a back supported squat against the wall.

You need to look at each exercise in terms of the fundamental movement which it involves, not the way it is most often performed. In that vein, I'll examine each one of the exercises listed above to identify the underlying movement and suggest another exercise utilizing the same movement.

Deadlift: Torso Extension. Start with back extension machine
Squats: Bending at the knees to lower the body towards the ground. Start with Wall squats
Bent Row: Scapular retraction. Start with inverted body rows at a high angle.
Military Press: Vertical pushing. Make sure the person is capable of horizontal pushing first.
Dips: Arm extension. Start with bench dips.
Chins: Vertical pulling. Start with horizontal pulling.
Bench: Horizontal push. Start with pushups off an elevated bar if necessary.

[-Ironside-]

Originally Posted by Al Shades

Most PT's out there are going "by the book". They aren't sophisticated or intelligent enough to develop their own training methodologies. So they go by whatever ACSM/NSCA/NASM tells them to use.

The newest and biggest trend in the industry now is all the "functional" BS. This is a big cash cow and it isn't going anywhere soon.

I agree, I see allot of trainers go by cookie cutter workouts and for some clients that's ok. I've used workouts that are cookie cutters on people where I know doing anything too strenuous would drive them away, sometimes people want boring but effective. I hate it but they pay me to do it.

Functional strength is the most practical, there's no argument there.
My favorite clients come in with goals that require extra attention, want to compete in a triathlon, make it up a flight of stairs, pass a fitness exam, etc. But those are far and few between.

[wizi]

Originally Posted by -Ironside-

How many of their clients look like they can do DL's safely?
The majority of clients are female and a wider waist isn't something they would appreciate.
The top goal of most clients isn't to be buff and strong.
This is what I hear 90% of the time:

1. To lose weight
2. To tone up
3. Be healthier

Rarely will you ever get a client who says "I want to be a body builder" or "I want to be huge" because these people usually do it on their own.
Doing exercises like DL's for someone who really doesn't need to do them is silly and dangerous. Deads are way to easy to screw up and injure yourself.
PT's should NEVER try to hold their clients back and I've never met any who do, my goal is to get my clients to the point where they don't need me.

Finally, we have the real answer.

Put your 60 years old clients on the bench means you put their life to the edge. Put your clients with lower back pain to deadlift, soon they will be dead by lifting. Have your 250 lbs clients do chin-up, yeah right How many chinup you can do when you are in the best shape of your life?

[Al Shades]

The majority of people in a commercial facility have no clear conception of what they want to achieve. If you build a program based on their goals as they define them, they won't achieve anything because the goals are too vague and mutually exclusive. For example, people will say things like "tone up", "get stronger", "improve endurance" without any true conception of these things. Strength and endurance are opposing qualities. The only people who can make gains in both areas at the same time are complete beginners. Training for strength and endurance at the same time ensures that you will STAY a beginner and never reach a respectable level in either area. It's sad.

The very first thing you should ask people after they tell you what they want to improve is how they know that they have a problem in that area. Half of them won't even be able to provide a coherent answer. The guy who says he wants to improve his endurance can't name a single instance in which his endurance held him back from completing a task, yet here you about to take his goals seriously and write him a dedicated program that he'll likely try for one week before discarding it and going back to whatever he was doing before.

The bottom line is that people have no idea what they're doing and there are many individuals out there who need to be treated like children, because they fundamentally are.

The way to escape this BS is to become a highly specialized "niche trainer", once you establish a proven track record. Market yourself towards people who are looking to fulfill a single goal, and nobody else. This way, you don't have to play babysitter and try to accomodate everybody's desires like a special needs teacher. People will know exactly what you do and come to you with clear expectations. You won't have to play guessing games with them to find out what they want.

I have established a golden rule for cutting through the nonsense spouted by average people with regards to their "goals": when in doubt, put them on a hypertrophy routine and call it a day.

You can hardly go wrong with a hypertrophy split. Hypertrophy is one of the most improvable training qualities and also the most noticeable. If you help someone add 50 lbs. to their bench, no one outside the gym will know it. If you help that person add 3 inches to their chest, then everyone who sees him will know it, and he will be reminded of it everytime he walks past a mirror.

Naturally, people (especially women) are deathly afraid of getting "bulky", but you can safely ignore these complaints in the knowledge that their fears are totally unrealistic and could barely come to pass even if they were training for that very purpose.

Basically, I assume that every "average" client could benefit from looking a hell of a lot better than they do now. Not running faster, not lifting more, not being more flexible, not learning martial arts, but simply looking better naked. And I give them a routine that is designed for precisely that effect, while telling them that it will fulfill all of their vaguely defined goals. And they're thankful for it.

Just keep it simple. Treat everyone as if they were participating in a physique transformation contest. This is exactly what the vast majority of "average" people want, even though they won't know it until they've actually seen the results for themselves. When people get lean and actually look good, they'll suddenly find their old "problems" vanish. They won't have to waste time on doing pointless endurance training or other things that don't make them look beter.

The number 1 imperative with a "beginner" is to get them out of the beginner's stage as fast as possible. That is because beginners are a monumental waste of time and it's very possible for people to exercise for years without advancing beyond a beginner's stage.

[FreddyKrueger]

Cookie cutter stuff I can agree on.

As a trainer the very first thing you should be concerned with is muscle imbalances. Overactives vs. underactives. This is no gimmick. I want my clients muscles and joints at the most ideal (read PROPER) position when doing these lifts.

I don't find anything wrong with the basic 5 lifts. Most of my clients start out with db's doing chest presses, single leg dead lifts... but most of this is after we correct everything. Plus, as stated before very rarely will I hear people wanting to get hughe. Most of them want to tone up a bit and be healthy. Now, you tell me why I should teach them anything other than that?? Thats why most of the routines come as "cookie cutter". Its because most of the stuff is functional. They still do the lifts but they are not necesseraly with the olympic bars that everyone is accostumed to.

In the end look at it this way. If you want to buy a car and you come to me asking for a Honda. I won't try to sell you a HEMI because thats what I think you need. I might mention it... but in the end you get what you want. Now, put that in PT context and you will understand why most people are not doing what peeps here at bb.com consider the norm.

[Al Shades]

The funniest thing is when, for instance, someone tells you they'd like to "get stronger".

You reply: "How are you weak right now?"

And they will look at you as if you just came out of a spaceship and scramble frantically for an answer. lol

People have no idea what they want.

[Mr. Aries]

most trainers don't know how to do basic exercises correctly, they read up too much on balance balls and gimmicks.

[DBee]

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. (NO NEGS)