Mixed Messages

[Sassy31]

you know I'm getting tired of every single person having a different approach I have now had two IFBB pros tell me something completely opposite...one told me I don't need to worry about calories just be concerned about the macros and she told me that veggies are unlimited I can have as much as I want but to limit the fruit. Then I recently have a online IFBB pro telling me that no fruit, he's given me more dairy and then the only veggies really allowed are broccolli and salad and he counts calories. I'm more confused than ever before..

[precisou2004]

Maybe you dont have to worry so much about the number of calories as to where they come from. You can eat 1500 cals of **** food and 1500 of good food, which one you think you will lose weight/fat from ? that speaks for itself.

As for eating only green veggies/salad/ and no fruits, I tend to agree with this but I am doing this right now cuz my trainer put me on a competition "diet" so IMHO, they are both correct, to some extent, depending on your goal

[JoyP]

I agree, depends on your goal & bottom line - everyone is different, you need to find out what works for you.

[JVo]

I think counting calories is a good idea for optimal results.

But some people don't do well mentally with counting calories, and maybe that's part of the reason she recommended that for you. Maybe she's worried that counting calories would drive you crazy or something. There is the school of thought that if you're eating the right stuff, you'll eat until your satiated, which should be right around the "right" caloric value for you (I'm not 100% sold on that, though).

It's also not always obvious exactly how many calories a person should eat either. You can use charts and that sort of thing, or even a calorimeter (but I'm not sure that those are always totally accurate), but in the end, each body is different, and it may take some playing around/adjusting to figure out what's right for you. This may be another reason why she was hesitant to have you count calories.

[ChicagoChef]

I agree, depends on your goal & bottom line - everyone is different, you need to find out what works for you.

Amen to that!

[JVo]

Are you trying to lose weight, gain weight, or stay the same and change your body composition? Theoretically, it requires a caloric deficit to lose weight, and a caloric surplus to gain....so I would say that counting calories is ideal to achieve your goals.

[NOVA888]

Screw advice--or at least take it with a grain of salt, and also realize that no advice is law!

Have your own mind--experiment, experiment, experiment and find out what works for YOU! Keep 'updating' and 'changing' in order to keeps things fresh, and to keep surprising your body so that it doesn't become overly dependent (or resistant), to one particular way of doing things.

There's no one way to reach a goal, it takes many different ways and a mind open to many possibilities.

[911Muscles]

you know I'm getting tired of every single person having a different approach I have now had two IFBB pros tell me something completely opposite...one told me I don't need to worry about calories just be concerned about the macros and she told me that veggies are unlimited I can have as much as I want but to limit the fruit. Then I recently have a online IFBB pro telling me that no fruit, he's given me more dairy and then the only veggies really allowed are broccolli and salad and he counts calories. I'm more confused than ever before..

I used to be just like what you are doing....I spent hours online rading (am I mean HOURS) reading on dieting and different "PRO" diets to help you gain muslces...loose fat....I have been bodybuilding for almost 7 years now (not in competitions) but just about 2 years back I realised that its all bull****...EVERYONE is different and all those pro bodybuilders dont give a **** if they are on all the Test they can get their hand on.....Lear to listen to your body and thruout it you will faill and succeed but also learn what is best for you.....My current cutting diet is 2000 Cals 150 Carbs 210 Protein a day : I eat two solid meals a day (six inch subways) and three more liquid meals, one protein shake with oatmeal in the morning, 1 MRP in the afternoon and one Musclemilk before bed....It works great for me and I feel good, I also take a lot of vitamins and Fiber which makes me "go" very good.....find out what works for you and stop asking people for advice because everyone is different.......................


BY THE WAY...Does anyone know the long term effects on the body for consuming Protein, MRP's and Musclemilk everyone is always bugging me about the health risks associated with consuming all that powder thruout the years??

[CptAnarchy]

you know I'm getting tired of every single person having a different approach I have now had two IFBB pros tell me something completely opposite...one told me I don't need to worry about calories just be concerned about the macros and she told me that veggies are unlimited I can have as much as I want but to limit the fruit. Then I recently have a online IFBB pro telling me that no fruit, he's given me more dairy and then the only veggies really allowed are broccolli and salad and he counts calories. I'm more confused than ever before..

Some people respond differently to different types training/nutrition. You have to find what works for YOU. Not them.

EDIT: Just realised someone posted my answer b4 me

[cleanfreak]

A lot of people here eat low-carb/high-protein and see great results...when I did that I ended up 8 lbs heavier in the course of 9 months. When I analyzed my macros over time, I saw the most consistent fat loss with a 45% carbs, 35% fat, 20% protein split. I met with a nutritionist and she agreed. Now I am eating tons of veggies, fruit, and some grains and losing weight.

My point is that you have to tinker around until you find what works for YOU. And, what works for you NOW. I can't say I'll never go low-carb again, but for now, this is working.

Hang in there! Mixed messages are everywhere, let your results be the judge of what works for you!

[twinnett]

I agree that everyone is different! I get bloated and have a hard time losing if I limit carbs too much. I was able to lose tons (too much! I was down to 105#) fat eating a lot of carbs, even fruit and dairy and even right before bed! Experiment and see what works for YOU!

[OakExpress]

you know I'm getting tired of every single person having a different approach I have now had two IFBB pros tell me something completely opposite...one told me I don't need to worry about calories just be concerned about the macros and she told me that veggies are unlimited I can have as much as I want but to limit the fruit. Then I recently have a online IFBB pro telling me that no fruit, he's given me more dairy and then the only veggies really allowed are broccolli and salad and he counts calories. I'm more confused than ever before..

I agree with the first person..
1) Macros matter
2) High protein, moderate fat, lower carb
3) Eat lots of veggies, particularly green stuff
4) Limit fruit
5) Eliminate most if not all dairy if you are trying to get really lean
6) Drink plenty of water, coffee and green tea are cool

I have trained folks and seen what MANY other trainers do... this is the formula that seems to work best

Sorry if this just adds to the confusion. Bottom line, experiment and see what works for you. I've used the above approach and gotten to about 4% bf.

[bebeklein]

5) Eliminate most if not all dairy if you are trying to get really lean

What's the reasoning behind this? Some people say this causes bloating, but if it doesn't and it fits into your macros, why cut out all dairy?

I currently eat these dairy products. Is this stuff bad if I'm trying to get lean? I usually eat 40%/40%/20%:
LF cottage cheese which is 24%C/56%P/20%F
FF greek yogurt 34%C/66%P/0%F
Mozzarella cheese (with an apple or on my sandwich) 0%C/44%P/56%F (like 5g of fat)
Fat Free milk (in my coffee) 58%C/42%P/0%F

[OakExpress]

What's the reasoning behind this? Some people say this causes bloating, but if it doesn't and it fits into your macros, why cut out all dairy?

I currently eat these dairy products. Is this stuff bad if I'm trying to get lean? I usually eat 40%/40%/20%:
LF cottage cheese which is 24%C/56%P/20%F
FF greek yogurt 34%C/66%P/0%F
Mozzarella cheese (with an apple or on my sandwich) 0%C/44%P/56%F (like 5g of fat)
Fat Free milk (in my coffee) 58%C/42%P/0%F

It has to do with lactose and fat storage. It is an optimization. I really depends on your goals. In the off-season I have some dairy (FF Cheddar, Low-fat cottage cheese, Yogurt). During contest prep I get lean and mean. Dairy is out completely and it makes a difference.

[LilT1026]

It has to do with lactose and fat storage. It is an optimization. I really depends on your goals. In the off-season I have some dairy (FF Cheddar, Low-fat cottage cheese, Yogurt). During contest prep I get lean and mean. Dairy is out completely and it makes a difference.

I just eliminated dairy completely and have noticed a HUGE improvement. I eliminated wheat too and my tummy has gone down considerably! The bloat is gone and I feel better too! I thought I'd miss it but I like the results better than anything else. Thanks

[Defiant1]

you know I'm getting tired of every single person having a different approach I have now had two IFBB pros tell me something completely opposite...one told me I don't need to worry about calories just be concerned about the macros and she told me that veggies are unlimited I can have as much as I want but to limit the fruit. Then I recently have a online IFBB pro telling me that no fruit, he's given me more dairy and then the only veggies really allowed are broccolli and salad and he counts calories. I'm more confused than ever before..

Bodybuilding is most definitely an activity of self-discovery.

The fact is: people are different. Don't you have certain foods/exercises that some people love but you KNOW aren't right for you?

Use others ideas as guideline-test them, and see if they work for you. If they work use them. If they don't try something else.

The above is probably the greatest bit of wisdom in bodybuilding.


Yes, there are certain truisms, but if you are looking for definites, then you are going to be disappointed and frustrated. Obviously if a large amount of people are saying something works for them then chances are it will work for you, but not always. The less "typical" you are, the more searching you will have to do.

What seems to happen, is that people hear an idea, try it for themselves, then if it works they then become locked on that idea as correct for everyone.

[kimm4]

I agree with the first person..
1) Macros matter
2) High protein, moderate fat, lower carb
3) Eat lots of veggies, particularly green stuff
4) Limit fruit
5) Eliminate most if not all dairy if you are trying to get really lean
6) Drink plenty of water, coffee and green tea are cool

I have trained folks and seen what MANY other trainers do... this is the formula that seems to work best

Sorry if this just adds to the confusion. Bottom line, experiment and see what works for you. I've used the above approach and gotten to about 4% bf.

I agree with all of the above, except cutting out all dairy. ff cottage cheese, ff cheese and lofat milk a staple in my plan right up till peak week! (Thank you Layne Norton!! )

Everyone has their own methods and it depends on the individual.

[OakExpress]

I just eliminated dairy completely and have noticed a HUGE improvement. I eliminated wheat too and my tummy has gone down considerably! The bloat is gone and I feel better too! I thought I'd miss it but I like the results better than anything else. Thanks

My pleasure -- just glad to see things are working out for you.

[OakExpress]

Everyone has their own methods and it depends on the individual.

Yep.. I agree. There are some things that are solid fact, and then there are the gray areas that vary from person to person. I really miss the dairy during prep, but I see a tremendous difference in my physique when it is eliminated. As you get older, you may find that your body has more and more trouble processing dairy.