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  1. #61
    Registered User Gavin_'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    I added ZMA because:
    -It is a prop blend that is practically used as a compound by many companies. You see supplements with "ZMA xxx mg" on their labels. You can consider it an alternative form of zinc/magnesium.
    -There are studies on it proving it worthless
    can you post some?
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    Need to retest some of those :)
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  2. #62
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Gavin_ View Post
    can you post some?
    Did you bother to read the link under ZMA?
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  3. #63
    Are you Driven? Sldge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Do pigs produce T3 in the adrenals instead of the thyroid?
    No its definitely in the thyroid but I thought I had read about a small amount found in the adrenals as well in an old study. I just reread the study (posted) and it was a different hormone.

    Ludvigsen," J. 1969. Some thyroid and adrenal breed
    characteristics and their possible relation to pale
    exudative muscles in pigs. In W. Sybesma, P. G. van
    der Wal and P. Walstra (Ed.) Recent Points of View
    on the Condition and Meat Quality of Pigs for
    Slaughter. I. V.O., Zeist, The Netherlands. p. 113.
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  4. #64
    Registered User canuhandleit's Avatar
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    But bro, ZMA gave me a 250% increase in bro-strength.
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  5. #65
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    I wonder if anyone still remembers D-ribose

    it is still sold as a supplement around here

    L-carnitine is actually effective, only in injection form

    also GABA (cant cross blood-brain barrier)
    Last edited by Vadim Beliaev; 09-19-2008 at 07:24 PM.
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  6. #66
    That Guy. thesinner's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Is it 100% glycerine or does it contains any aromas e.t.c.?
    I thought glycerine's ability to draw moisture from membranes made it dangerous to consume if not diluted. Not to mention it tastes pretty awful even after dilution.

    In the states, they sell glycerine in the first aid aisle of the local pharmacies, and contains something to the tone of "do not injest". My thoughts are due to the characteristics I've stated above.
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  7. #67
    Registered User UNCnate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vadim Beliaev View Post
    I wonder if anyone still remembers D-ribose

    it is still sold as a supplement around here

    L-carnitine is actually effective, only in injection form

    also GABA (cant cross blood-brain barrier)
    Sure it can. Just got to attach it to the right thing.

    Take a look at Picamilon.
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  8. #68
    That Guy. thesinner's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UNCnate View Post
    Sure it can. Just got to attach it to the right thing.

    Take a look at Picamilon.
    Niacin attached to GABA makes picamilon, but that would make it a different compound than GABA. That'd be like saying GABA and GHB are the same thing, afterall you switch an amine with a hydroxyl group, voila!
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  9. #69
    Registered User GM54's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    sub'd
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  10. #70
    Registered User UNCnate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Niacin attached to GABA makes picamilon, but that would make it a different compound than GABA. That'd be like saying GABA and GHB are the same thing, afterall you switch an amine with a hydroxyl group, voila!
    Right.
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  11. #71
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Vadim Beliaev View Post

    also GABA (cant cross blood-brain barrier)
    It doesn't need to, for readons I have explained a few hundred times
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  12. #72
    That Guy. thesinner's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    It doesn't need to, for reasons I have explained a few hundred times
    Does the spike in serum GABA concentrations cause for an increase in substrates (shift in equilibrium)? The substrates would be capable of crossing the BBB (otherwise GABA would never exist in the brain), where their reaction favors the product side, since no exogeneous GABA can get in there to screw with reaction rates.

    Sorry for the Q, I'm not on BB.com so much, and never came across any of the instances where you've mentioned it.
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  13. #73
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by thesinner View Post
    Does the spike in serum GABA concentrations cause for an increase in substrates (shift in equilibrium)? The substrates would be capable of crossing the BBB (otherwise GABA would never exist in the brain), where their reaction favors the product side, since no exogeneous GABA can get in there to screw with reaction rates.

    Sorry for the Q, I'm not on BB.com so much, and never came across any of the instances where you've mentioned it.
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=616491
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  14. #74
    Registered User chenrko420's Avatar
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    does yohimburn belong here?
    Last edited by chenrko420; 09-20-2008 at 07:40 PM.
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  15. #75
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    thanks

    Was very informative actually, I still have a bottle of GABA from when i wanted to try it out, and got discouraged by thinking that it has to cross the barrier to be effective.
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  16. #76
    yo yo giantbrandon's Avatar
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    Would HMB be another one
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  17. #77
    Registered User UNCnate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by giantbrandon View Post
    Would HMB be another one
    Addressed on page 1.
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  18. #78
    Veni Vidi Vici siersy's Avatar
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    using melatonin for sleep causes higher prolactin levels if i recall properly
    I wish it lasted, forever.
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  19. #79
    In remission dark_man812's Avatar
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    Would chromium picolinate be included on this list?
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  20. #80
    yo yo giantbrandon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UNCnate View Post
    Addressed on page 1.
    my bad
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  21. #81
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by dark_man812 View Post
    Would chromium picolinate be included on this list?
    I had forgotten about it. Some mod to add these lines to post #2 pls

    Chromium
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=621929
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  22. #82
    Registered User mc4_a's Avatar
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    Are Methyl Ester products things like LG Sciences Methyl 1-D.
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  23. #83
    Registered User moondg29's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by mc4_a View Post
    Are Methyl Ester products things like LG Sciences Methyl 1-D.
    No.

    Read here:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...t=methyl+ester
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  24. #84
    Balls-Attitude-Direction joeflex73's Avatar
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    GH boosters
    The No BS Guide to Caloric Intake, Cutting and Bulking by joeflex73
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  25. #85
    The Next Jason Voorhees Da Main Man's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joeflex73 View Post
    GH boosters
    thoughts on the addition of L-dopa (Levodopa) in these OTC products?
    Tell your Girlfriend i said thanks....
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  26. #86
    Actual Pharmacist Bane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by joeflex73 View Post
    GH boosters
    Not a compound
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  27. #87
    Banned Belloc's Avatar
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    speaking from personal experience:

    CLA

    absolute crap

    CEE

    tasted vile and did nothing for me

    ZMA

    not that I was expecting gains but people said better sleep and vivid dreams and not even that

    Tribulus

    nada
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  28. #88
    Registered User UNCnate's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bane View Post
    Not a compound
    How about as mentioned above. L-dopa as a GH booster.
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  29. #89
    Are you Driven? Sldge's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by UNCnate View Post
    How about as mentioned above. L-dopa as a GH booster.
    In this study they found that healthy adults who took Ldopa with a COMT inhibitor had an increase of GH. There arent a lot of studies done using Ldopa and healthy patients, you really need to weed through them.
    =============================================

    J Neural Transm. 1996;103(6):729-36.Links
    COMT inhibition by entacapone does not affect growth hormone or prolactin secretion in healthy volunteers.
    Ker?nen T, Gordin A, Koulu M, Scheinin M, Antila S, Sundberg S, Wikberg T.

    Orion Research Center, Orion-Farmos, Espoo, Finland.

    We studied the effects of entacapone, a novel inhibitor of the enzyme catechol-O-methyltransferase (COMT), on spontaneous and levodopa (LD) modulated secretion of growth hormone (GH) and prolactin (PRL) in 12 healthy male volunteers. The study had a double-blind, cross-over design with two experimental settings. In the first setting the subjects received a single oral dose of 400 mg of entacapone or matching placebo in a randomized order. In the second setting, a single oral dose of 300 mg of LD and 75 mg of carbidopa was administered concomitantly with either 400 mg of entacapone or matching placebo in a randomized order. Entacapone had no effect on resting levels of GH, but PRL concentrations in plasma were slightly lower after entacapone than after placebo. As expected, LD/carbidopa increased the concentration of GH and decreased that of PRL. The effects of LD were not influenced by concomitant administration of entacapone. Compared with the administration of LD/carbidopa together with placebo, concomitant administration of entacapone increased the AUC of LD by 29% and reduced the AUC of 3-O-methyldopa (a metabolite of LD produced by COMT) by 69%. Entacapone appears not to enhance the effects of LD on hypothalamic-pituitary function, although the LD dose used may have been bigger than optimal for detection of a small modulatory influence.

    Found another:

    Horm Res. 1991;36(1-2):41-6.Links
    Dopaminergic regulation of gonadotropin and thyrotropin hormone secretion is altered with age.
    Greenspan SL, Sparrow D, Rowe JW.

    Division of Gerontology, Beth Israel Hospital, Boston, Mass.

    To determine if age-related changes in glycoprotein pituitary hormone secretion are associated with alterations in dopaminergic regulation, plasma gonadotropins and TSH were measured before and after L-dopa administration in 44 young (31-44 years of age) and 42 old (64-88 years of age) healthy male participants. Plasma GH and PRL were also determined in order to examine the ****totroph and lactotrope response. In the young, following L-dopa, plasma FSH, LH and TSH were unchanged from baseline. However, in older subjects, plasma FSH was significantly increased (p less than 0.001) and a similar trend was noted for LH. Plasma TSH was significantly depressed (p less than 0.002) in older subjects only. Following L-dopa, increases in plasma GH and decreases in plasma PRL were of similar magnitude in each group. These data indicate that dopaminergic modulation of gonadotropins and TSH is altered w

    Another:

    Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1984 Nov;21(5):535-40.Links
    Inhibitory effect of cimetidine on L-dopa-stimulated growth hormone release in normal man.
    Zanoboni A, Galmozzi G, Marinoni S, Zanoboni-Muciaccia W.

    Some evidence suggests the existence of a histaminergic influence on GH secretion in animals and man. We used cimetidine, a specific H2-receptor antagonist, to study the possible interference of H2-receptor blockade on plasma GH release by L-dopa and on PRL inhibition by L-dopa in normal man. Seven healthy normal male volunteers aged 23-36 years received a single oral dose of L-dopa (500 mg) or an i.v. bolus of cimetidine (300 mg) or both (L-dopa 30 min before cimetidine). Blood samples were taken at various times over 2 h and plasma GH and PRL levels measured. Cimetidine alone did not alter basal plasma GH values; L-dopa elicited the well-known GH releasing effect with peak values at 75 min (15.65 +/- 2.8 ng/ml); cimetidine injected 30 min after L-dopa ingestion significantly blunted the GH response to L-dopa and peak values (4.7 +/- 1.6 ng/ml) were delayed to 105 min. Cimetidine provoked a rapid rise in plasma PRL with the peak value of 15 +/- 3 ng/ml at 15 min, followed by a return to near basal values in 90-120 min. L-Dopa completely inhibited the PRL response to cimetidine. We conclude that there is an inhibitory influence of the H2-receptor antagonist cimetidine on GH release by L-dopa. This, together with the action of cimetidine on PRL secretion (with or without L-dopa), suggests a possible antidopaminergic effect of H2-receptor blockade at the level of the central nervous system.

    Dont take L-Dopa with sugar if you are looking for a GH response:

    Diabetes. 1978 Apr;27(4):396-9.Links
    Effect of glucose on the glucagon response to L-dopa in normal and diabetic subjects.
    Klimes I, Vigas M, Jurcovicov? J, Repcekov? D, Koles?r P.

    The effect of an oral dose of 1 gm. L-dopa either without or after a concomitant oral administration of 100 gm. glucose on the plasma level of pancreatic glucagon, plasma immunoreactive insulin (IRI), and plasma growth hormone (GH) was assessed in eight normal and 10 insulin-treated diabetic subjects. In the normal group the stimulatory effect o L-dopa on pancreatic glucagon release was reconfirmed. Moreover, in the diabetics essentially the same plasma glucagon increase after drug administration was found, such a response being inhibited in both groups by glucose. The increase of plasma GH after L-dopa in both healthy persons and diabetics and the inhibition of this response by glucose in healthy subjects was reconfirmed. Furthermore, the same effect of exogenous glucose on the L-dopa induced GH release was observed in diabetics. It may be concluded that glucagon may play a pathogenetic role in the worsening of parkinsonian diabetic patients during the treatment with L-dopa and that diabetic hyperglycemia per se seems to be insufficient for an inhibition of the release of both glucagon and GH AFTer L-dopa.

    Last one:

    Clin Endocrinol (Oxf). 1975 May;4(3):277-85.Links
    Comparison of the effect of apomorphine and L-DOPA on serum growth hormone levels in normal men.
    Lal S, Martin JB, De la Vega CE, Friesen HG.

    Apomorphine hydrochloride (0.75 mg s.c.) has been compared with L-dopa (500 mg p.o.) in their effects on growth hormone secretion in a double blind cross-over study involving nine healthy men. Apomorphine increased serum GH levels above 10 ng/ml in all nine subjects 30-60 min after injection. In contrast, only six of these subjects showed a similar elevation with L-DOPA and in only three had the level increased above 6 ng/ml by 60 min. One subject failed to respond to L-dopa and in two others the peak was less than 6 ng/ml. GH levels were significantly higher at 30, 45 and 60 min following apomorphine than following L-dopa. Apomorphine-induced GH release was not related to changes in serum cortisol or blood sugar. Benztropine mesylate (1 mg i.m.) had no effect on apomorphine-induced GH release. These results suggest: (a) apomorphine may have advantages over L-dopa as a provocative agent to assess GH secretory capacity; (b) a dopaminergic mechanism subserves GH secretion; (c) cholinergic mechanisms do not antagonize dopaminergic-related GH release.
    Last edited by Sldge; 09-23-2008 at 07:53 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Belloc View Post
    speaking from personal experience:

    CLA

    absolute crap

    CEE

    tasted vile and did nothing for me

    ZMA

    not that I was expecting gains but people said better sleep and vivid dreams and not even that

    Tribulus

    nada
    This is the science section, not personal experience/product review section.
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