DCA/IIFYM question for a beginner

[Chabbathehut]

Hello all - I have had a look through the posts on here but could not find the exact answer I was looking for, so hoping you could help.

Background - I am 27, Male at 80kg and 180cm. I have trained on an off over the last few years, but failed to make the gains I would have liked. Clearly my diet or programme needed to change. I have recently started lifting again, but trying to keep CV fitness as I need it for work so I have been doing a few crossfit sessions - That aside as that is not the subject of this thread, I wanted to address my diet.It seems that whatever I eat, whether it be basically keto for a few weeks, or whether I live off mcdonalds and kirspy kreme my weight will continue to stay aorund the 80kg mark. I did strip some fat last year with a keto diet and go myself down to about 78kg but rebounded heavily.

I want to add additional mass and then cut later on, and have been reading about DCA. My calculations leave me about here, but the guides did not give an option for a sedentry desk job with someone who trains once a day.

2910 - BMR
4000 - Requirement
156g Protien - 624Kcal
66g Fat - 600Kcl
2776Kcal Carbs - 694g

I have made the difference up on this one in carbs, but is it right that once I hit my macros for P/C/F I can make the rest up with what I want. technically I could make the rest up in beer, haribo, cola, pasta, oats or sweetpotato?

[WonderPug]

I am 27, Male at 80kg and 180cm. I

My calculations leave me about here, but the guides did not give an option for a sedentry desk job with someone who trains once a day.

2910 - BMR
4000 - Requirement
156g Protien - 624Kcal
66g Fat - 600Kcl
2776Kcal Carbs - 694g

Your "calculations" are astonishly incorrect.

is it right that once I hit my macros for P/C/F I can make the rest up with what I want. technically I could make the rest up in beer, haribo, cola, pasta, oats or sweetpotato?

Abandoning common sense is a recipe for disaster.


To start learning the basics about nutrition, please read the relevant stickies at the top of the nutrition forum as well as this:

COMPOSING A RATIONAL DIET

Advice on diet and nutrition is often based on myths and, even more so, on the marketing message of supplement companies and self-proclaimed diet gurus with agendas contrary to your interests. Please don't allow yourself, your health, your fitness goals or your wallet to be compromised by the prevalent misinformation. Learn the basics of nutrition and start engaging in healthy, rational dietary habits that can last a lifetime.

The first step is to discard biased advice on nutrition and diet, and, in its place, embrace simple logic:

Compose a diet that ensures micronutrient and macronutrient sufficiency, derived predominantly from whole and minimally processed foods if possible, with remaining caloric intake being largely discretionary within the bounds of common sense.

Caloric Intake

Energy balance is the primary dietary driver of body weight and it also impacts body composition. A chronic surplus of calories will result in increased body weight and a chronic deficit of calories will result in a loss of body weight.

In other words, in order to gain about one pound of tissue weight (as opposed to transient flux in water weight), you need to consume a total of about 3,500 calories more than you expend. And to lose about one pound of tissue weight, you have to do the opposite -- consume about 3,500 calories less than you expend.

Thus, the first step in constructing any rational diet is to get a sense of how many calories per day, on average, you should consume in order to progress towards your goals.

The average number of calories you expend per day -- called total daily energy expenditure (TDEE) -- is a function of your basal metabolic rate (BMR) and your average weekly activity level.

To estimate your BMR, it's important to have a sense of how much lean body mass (LBM) you carry. If you're not sure, post a photo or two and we can estimate your percentage body fat and, from this number and your total body weight, it's easy to estimate LBM by using the following formula:

LBM = body weight * (1 - percentage body fat)

To estimate BMR, use the the Katch-McArdle formula:

BMR = 370 + (9.8 * LBM in pounds)
or
BMR = 370 + (21.6 * LBM in kg)

The next step is to estimate average weekly activity using the following guidelines to calculate an activity factor (AF):

• 1.1 - 1.2 = Sedentary (desk job, and little formal exercise, this will be most of you students)

• 1.3 - 1.4 = Lightly Active (light daily activity and light exercise 1-3 days a week)

• 1.5 - 1.6 = Moderately Active (moderately daily Activity & moderate exercise 3-5 days a week)

• 1.7 - 1.8 = Very Active (physically demanding lifestyle & hard exercise 6-7 days a week)

• 1.9 - 2.2 = Extremely Active (athletes in endurance training or very hard physical job)

To estimate TDEE (the calories at which you will neither gain nor lose tissue weight), use the following formula:

TDEE = BMR * AF

Now that you've estimated your TDEE, it's important to refine that estimate empirically. To do so, consume an average amount of calories equal to estimated TDEE for two weeks, monitoring weight change. The results will confirm your actual TDEE.

Once you know your actually TDEE, set your caloric intake to match your goals as follows:

To maintain weight, consume an amount of calories equal to TDEE.
To lose weight, consume 10% to 20% less than TDEE.
To gain weight, consume 10% 20 20% more than TDEE.

Monitor weight change via the scale and also body composition via the mirror and how clothing fits, making adjustments as needed biweekly.


Macronutrient Intake

Ensure that your intake of macronutrients meets sufficiency (as defined below), with remaining macronutrient composition of the diet being largely a function of personal preference.

Ideally, ensure macronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

Protein: ~0.6 to ~0.8 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the highest amount justified by research.

Fat: ~0.45 grams per pound of bodyweight (or target/ideal weight in the obese) -- the lowest amount implied by clinical observation.

Remaining caloric budget: whatever mix of macronutrients you prefer -- as implied by research.

Micronutrient Intake

Take care and use good judgement in food selection and portioning to ensure that micronutrient sufficiency is reached without excessive intake from dietary sources and/or supplements.

As with macronutrient sufficiency, one should ensure micronutrient sufficiency predominantly or, ideally, entirely from whole and minimally processed foods.

To get a good sense of recommended intake of vitamins and minerals, please review this USDA guidelines webpage.

You'll find the following information particularly helpful:

Intakes: Recommended Intakes for Individuals

RDA and Adequate Intake for Vitamins and Elements

Upper Limit for Vitamins and Elements

Electrolytes and Water

Meal Timing, Composition & Frequency

The number of meals you consume, the timing of those meals and the macro/micronutrient composition of each meal is largely a function of personal preference.

While it might be "optimal" to consume more than one meal per day and less than 5 meals per day, the simple truth is that any difference that directly results from such fine tuning is likely too small to notice even after years of training.

Thus, base your meal timing, composition and frequency on your subjective preference such as to optimize your sense of energy, performance, satiety, palatability, convenience, social/business life and sustainability.

Do not hesitate to very all three factors from day to day as circumstance dictates. In other words, do not become a slave to routine, with inflexibility compromising your quality of life.


Pre & Post Workout Nutrition

What (if anything) you consume before and after your workout does not play a significant direct role in the outcome of your diet, beyond personal preference.

Why? Because what matters in terms of direct impact on outcomes is total daily intake of all nutrients.

Thus, you should optimize based on how you respond to training in a fed or fasted state, and based on your hungry after exercise. In other words, use common sense.


Supplements

Supplements are just that, products that are intended to supplement deficiencies in your diet. If your diet is properly composed then there's no need or unique benefit to using supplements.

If your diet isn't properly composed and, thus, you have deficiencies, try to fix your diet to cure such deficiencies though the consumption of whole and minimally processed foods. If you can't fix your diet, then use the lowest dose supplement(a) needed to cure any remaining deficiencies.

[Chabbathehut]

Thanks for the reply - Must have messed something up somewhere on the calculator. I have used this one iifym-calculator/ now and got the results below:

BMR - 1839
TDEE - 2689
Bulking req - 3092


Grams per day
Carbs -466.3
Protien - 172
Fat - 59.8

I understand that I should be using macrorich food where possible but on other threads and forums when people are trying to bulk and hit high calorie goals users are suggesting things like PBJ, olive oil into shakes etc?

[vismal]

Thanks for the reply - Must have messed something up somewhere on the calculator. I have used this one iifym-calculator/ now and got the results below:

BMR - 1839
TDEE - 2689
Bulking req - 3092


Grams per day
Carbs -466.3
Protien - 172
Fat - 59.8

I understand that I should be using macrorich food where possible but on other threads and forums when people are trying to bulk and hit high calorie goals users are suggesting things like PBJ, olive oil into shakes etc?

Those macros look better but I would up fat and lower carbs a little. You can eat calorie dense food if you have trouble getting to you caloric goal. If you don't get the calories in, you won't grow. That being said, there are still high calorie foods that are minimally processed and contain loads of micros. Just use common sense. if 80% of your diet comes from mcdonalds, something is probably wrong. If you really have trouble getting in the calories make high calorie liquid shakes. Scoop of protein, serving of peanut butter, 2 cups milk, 1/2 cup oat, and banana can be around 600 calories. You can drink it in seconds.

[STT816]

Thanks for the reply - Must have messed something up somewhere on the calculator. I have used this one iifym-calculator/ now and got the results below:

BMR - 1839
TDEE - 2689
Bulking req - 3092


Grams per day
Carbs -466.3
Protien - 172
Fat - 59.8

I understand that I should be using macrorich food where possible but on other threads and forums when people are trying to bulk and hit high calorie goals users are suggesting things like PBJ, olive oil into shakes etc?

eat around 80g fats, if you are having trouble getting down all that food, pbj and olive oil are helpful