High Cholesterol...Soy?

[atekk_920]

My doctor recently placed me on high cholesterol medication and told me i have to change my eating habits.
He mentioned that milk is pretty high in cholesterol and that i should switch to soy for my protein shakes since it has a reputation of reducing bad cholesterol. Ive heard rumors of estrogen content in soy with possible side effects on men.
Is this true? and does anyone have any suggestions on how to adjust my diet to live a healthier lifestyle and still get the proper nutrition i need to trim down and maintain muscle mass?

[Wowzer]

My doctor recently placed me on high cholesterol medication and told me i have to change my eating habits.
He mentioned that milk is pretty high in cholesterol and that i should switch to soy for my protein shakes since it has a reputation of reducing bad cholesterol. Ive heard rumors of estrogen content in soy with possible side effects on men.
Is this true? and does anyone have any suggestions on how to adjust my diet to live a healthier lifestyle and still get the proper nutrition i need to trim down and maintain muscle mass?

Switching to a lower fat content milk or skim milk will be just as effective.

In all likelihood though, unless you are having litres of milk a day, changing milk won't have a massive effect on blood cholesterol, although it will help. You need to take a look at other sources of fat in your diet and start trying to switch them to include more mono-unsaturated fat and less saturated fat.

[Jules Verne]

I don't know your situation, but I would try vigorous exercise (i.e. something high-intensity for cardio + lifting) several times/week and seriously reduce sugar and any refined carbs as a first step.

[titebuoy]

dietary cholesterol will have little impact on blood cholesterol levels, stay away from refined carbohydrates, get off the meds, exercise more, and eat more veggies

[FF8114]

dietary cholesterol will have little impact on blood cholesterol levels, stay away from refined carbohydrates, get off the meds, exercise more, and eat more veggies

x2

There is a small percentage of the population where dietary cholesterol does impact serum cholesterol levels but for the majority it has little impact.

[Jules Verne]

x2

There is a small percentage of the population where dietary cholesterol does impact serum cholesterol levels but for the majority it has little impact.

And even if it does have an impact, you should still be exercising and reducing refined carbs anyway, especially if your levels are high enough to warrant being on meds. So I would start with that, and then make additional dietary changes if necessary.

You might still want to limit foods with really high levels of cholesterol and make sure you have a reasonable balance of healthy fats too.

[atekk_920]

Just to clarify my situation, here is a little background.
I recently became motivated and am trying to change my habits. I sometimes replace a meal with a protein shake (Muscle Milk with whole milk). I seem to gain most of my weight in the stomach (huge belly).
I'm 5 8 and weigh in at a whopping 225. My diet is not the best and i have a severe sugar intake problem. The doctor among other things told me to cut back on basically everything that's good LOL. he mentioned the protein but without knowing any specifics said laying off things like milk, eggs, beef and so on would help most. I have tried the Atkins and had good results from it but that now seems to be out of the question. can anyone recommended a diet that would not only help my cholesterol but help me get rid of this gut but still allow me enough nutrition to develop lean. muscle

[Dr. Horse]

can anyone recommended a diet that would not only help my cholesterol but help me get rid of this gut but still allow me enough nutrition to develop lean. muscle

Try a diet rich in fruits and vegetables (this should make up the bulk of your diet), high fiber whole grains/legumes, low in animal fats (stick to lean meats, though fish can be fatty), rich in olive oil and other sources of monounsaturated fats. AND daily aerobic exercise is key. Also make sure you minimize other risk factors for cardiovascular disease- dyslipidemia is just part of the picture. How old are you?

[ch2s]

dietary cholesterol will have little impact on blood cholesterol levels, stay away from refined carbohydrates, get off the meds, exercise more, and eat more veggies

x100

Cholesterol drugs INCREASE heart attack risk by 10% as well as cause cancer, alzheimers, and other fatal diseases, they are nothing but quackery, will never save a life, and have killed tens of thousands of people, they are well known to be the next Vioxx since a long time, but they also are the #1 selling drug making over $1 Million per hour with Lipitor sales alone, they will and are doing everything in their power to keep killing people with these deadly drugs.

If you're also on heart pressure drugs, those increase heart attack risk by 60%, and also cause other fatal diseases.

Drugs are not the answer, diet and exercise is the answer, but since it's 100% free and science based, the quacks in modern medicine will never support it.

[Spottydog]

Drugs are not the answer, diet and exercise is the answer, but since it's 100% free and science based, the quacks in modern medicine will never support it.

Oh it's you... >_>

Dietary cholesterol is not necessarily linked to cholesterol levels in your body. In fact, vegans can have cholesterol problems, despite having a diet pretty much free of DIETARY cholesterol. High LDL is often genetic or due to inactivity (usually a combo of both).
Could you switch to skim milk? That's what I'd do. In a shake, I doubt you'll even notice the difference.

[ch2s]

Skim milk is even more damaging to health and is even more carcinogenic than regular milk, so even though it may reduce the heart attack risk, it dramatically increases cancer risk, every modification man makes to a food causes it to cause more diseases (decaf coffee is worst than regular, skim milk is worst than regular, juice is worst than whole fruit, cooked food is worst than raw food, etc.).

[Dr. Horse]

Skim milk is even more damaging to health and is even more carcinogenic than regular milk, so even though it may reduce the heart attack risk, it dramatically increases cancer risk, every modification man makes to a food causes it to cause more diseases (decaf coffee is worst than regular, skim milk is worst than regular, juice is worst than whole fruit, cooked food is worst than raw food, etc.).

What a bizarre world that you've created for yourself!

Up is down. Black is white. Very interesting.

I'll be sure to stop taking my "heart pressure" pills.

[Spottydog]

Skim milk is even more damaging to health and is even more carcinogenic than regular milk, so even though it may reduce the heart attack risk, it dramatically increases cancer risk, every modification man makes to a food causes it to cause more diseases (decaf coffee is worst than regular, skim milk is worst than regular, juice is worst than whole fruit, cooked food is worst than raw food, etc.).

But this has nothing to do with the OP's question and is irrelevent... if it's even true.

OP, if you LIKE soy milk, drink it, the amount of plant estrogens are INSIGNIFICANT if used in moderation. Reg. milk has the benefit if having 2 different kinds of protein (whey, casein), so AGAIN I recommend just lower-fat milk and maybe replacing the muscle milk with whey and peanut butter (lower saturated fat generally favorably benefits heart and cholesterol levels, source WebMD and American Heart Association). Now HERE's something cool.
Using high-oleic SUNFLOWER OIL in place of saturated fat can also benefit cholestrerol levels: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1...gdbfrom=pubmed

Here's a cool product, in which the company has replaced the fat of milk with sunflower oil, to make a nice 1% milk product:
http://www.eatingfabulous.com/sun-mi...-fat-free-milk (official website is down though )

[atekk_920]

How old are you?

Im only 28...Thanks to everyone for their help...it seems like the best all around answer is to get off my big lazy but and get some cardio in...i usually do a 15 minute jog on the treadmill but perhaps ill up it to 30? and it seems unavoidable that ill have to put down all the junk i love. ill try the soy for a while and stick to the meds for the next six weeks. After that i should be re tested and ill let everyone know what happens...Thanks to everyone for your help, suggestions and support. You really made a n00b like me feel right at home

[Dr. Horse]

Im only 28...Thanks to everyone for their help...it seems like the best all around answer is to get off my big lazy but and get some cardio in...i usually do a 15 minute jog on the treadmill but perhaps ill up it to 30? and it seems unavoidable that ill have to put down all the junk i love. ill try the soy for a while and stick to the meds for the next six weeks. After that i should be re tested and ill let everyone know what happens...Thanks to everyone for your help, suggestions and support. You really made a n00b like me feel right at home

I don't think soy is the answer for lowering cholesterol. And depending on your lipid profile (what is it btw?) I would explore diet and exercise before taking a statin (assuming a statin- what drug are you going on?).

[atekk_920]

I don't think soy is the answer for lowering cholesterol. And depending on your lipid profile (what is it btw?) I would explore diet and exercise before taking a statin (assuming a statin- what drug are you going on?).

you are correct..simvastatin 40mg. not quite sure what the lipid panel looks like. i was told everything else looks great except my cholesterol "its just a bit high" his exact words. its sort of a preventative thing i guess...wants to nip it in the bud before it gets real bad.

[Dr. Horse]

you are correct..simvastatin 40mg. not quite sure what the lipid panel looks like. i was told everything else looks great except my cholesterol "its just a bit high" his exact words. its sort of a preventative thing i guess...wants to nip it in the bud before it gets real bad.

If it's a "bit" high, drugs aren't really first line therapy. It's always diet and lifestyle modification. However many docs are cynical about patients actually making a change (the overwhelming majority never change a thing), so they just jump right to statins. It makes sense, but it doesn't make it "right". Hopefully you can get things under control yourself and then stop the statin. Statins are great drugs, and are safe, but it's better to not be on meds than be on meds.

[ch2s]

Here's a little honest info on statin drugs, these are just a few articles on the statin/cholesterol scam, with so much evidence that statins increase death rates, that alternatives actually reduce death rates and are free, you'd have to be really stupid to take that snake oil:

Low Cholesterol Increases Cancer and Death Risk
http://www.naturalnews.com/024001.html

Vioxx only the beginning; antidepressants and statin drugs are medication timebombs
http://www.naturalnews.com/001969.html

Medical fraud alert: cholesterol lowering statin drugs save zero lives, says comprehensive research published in JAMA
http://www.naturalnews.com/001268.html

New research shows blueberries lower LDL cholesterol better than statin drugs
http://www.naturalnews.com/002906.html

Cholesterol is an essential nutrient for human health that saves lives, explains doctor
http://www.naturalnews.com/001956.html

Healing foods beat statin drugs for lowering high cholesterol
http://www.naturalnews.com/008310.html

Statin drugs expose patients to dangerous, debilitating side effects
http://www.naturalnews.com/021397.html

Treating high cholesterol? Statin drugs can cause devastating side effects
http://www.naturalnews.com/019593.html

Corruption exposed: drug companies gave grants, consulting fees to panelists who issued new cholesterol guidelines that are driving demand for statins
http://www.naturalnews.com/001372.html

Viagra use causes infertility, says study; statins interfere with sex hormones
http://www.naturalnews.com/001068.html

Health officials launch the great statin marketing con by announcing that tens of millions of people suddenly need lower cholesterol
http://www.naturalnews.com/001317.html

Statin Drugs Found to Cause Liver Damage
http://www.naturalnews.com/023176.html

The Statin Scam Marches On
http://www.naturalnews.com/022374.html

Statin drugs cause muscle wasting disease
http://www.naturalnews.com/002736.html

Statin drugs cause memory loss, mental confusion
http://www.naturalnews.com/001355.html

No Such Thing as Bad Cholesterol: Dispelling the Marketing Myth
http://www.naturalnews.com/022553.html

Ending the Cholesterol-Heart Disease Myth
http://www.naturalnews.com/022960.html

The untold story on cholesterol lowering drugs: no drug comes close to the effectiveness of nutrition and exercise
http://www.naturalnews.com/000979.html

[asuguy]

are you female? then soy is ok. if male, soy = estrogen so skip it.

[GBA]

are you female? then soy is ok. if male, soy = estrogen so skip it.

This is actually true. Soy almost pure estrogen, and as a result, if you consume more than 1-2 servings a day, the risk of losing your testicles increased by almost 100 fold.

[FF8114]

This is actually true. Soy almost pure estrogen, and as a result, if you consume more than 1-2 servings a day, the risk of losing your testicles increased by almost 100 fold.

Are you being serious? I hope your post was meant to be sarcastic.

[ch2s]

Are you being serious? I hope your post was meant to be sarcastic.

It's true, babies fed soy milk/formula have 13,000 to 22,000 times more estrogen in their blood.

[PopeGregorius]

dietary cholesterol will have little impact on blood cholesterol levels, stay away from refined carbohydrates, get off the meds, exercise more, and eat more veggies

Absolutely. If you want to lower cholesterol, eat oats, lots of fibrous veges, any maybe take plant sterols.

Dietary cholesterol has little to do with blood cholesterol.

[Spottydog]

See, that's just not good logic. Okay, yes, someone that takes in 0 cholesterol could have high LDL levels (that is true).

It's also true that someone who only ate yolks all day could have low LDL levels

However, you can't say that someone that takes in no cholesterol is more likely to have high serum cholesterol than someone that lives off high cholesterol foods. (not sure if that made sense, but it's late and i need sleep)

No, that makes sense... I'm still gonna pimp the Sunmilk, if they sold it at the stores I shop at, you bet your ass I'd be using it...

[ch2s]

Any studies to back that up?

Everything i read on statins, most studies show that it reduces the risk of an MI on patients by about 33%. Not sure where you got your numbers from, but mine are from Lippincott's Pharmacology Textbook.

Completely agree that drugs are over-prescribed, however, the bulk of these debilitating side effects are are rather mild. The bulk of people have muscle cramps as the only side effect compared to double blind placebo studies.

Yes, the drugs are overpriced, but that's a product of our politicians inability to stand up to the pharmaceutical companies and the healthcare industry. It's why in 6 years or so, i'll be getting paid $300k a year when in most countries a doctor would make about half that.

Let's move on from all that, if you can control it with diet and exercise, more power to you. But the bulk of Americans are lazy and undisciplined. They need meds in order to control these problems.

Also, if these drugs are so toxic, why is it that the average lifespan continues to go up and up throughout the world? Common sense says you're way off...

Since people take studies from naturalnews.com that looks at one study and says that there's no point in using these drugs that will "kill you"

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/285/4/430

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...ct/106/17/2180 ---- not sure why they didn't run TnI as well as TnT, but still, the point is clear

http://heart.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/88/3/229

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/cont...tract/99/2/216 -- reduction of CVAs with statins too...


Please, someone also point me to where it says that dietary cholesterol has minimal effects on plasma cholesterol levels (with human studies please, i don't want a single rat, ox, or cow study):

http://eurheartj.oxfordjournals.org/...tract/24/8/729 --- talks about the effectiveness of a drug called ezetimibe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ezetimibe --- for those that need a crash course) --- it blocks intestinal absorbtion

here's another on ezetimibe --- http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retri...02914903016692

so if you didn't increase plasma levels of cholesterol from diet, could someone tell me how blocking it's absorption would lower cholesterol levels... i hate some of the terrible info that goes around on this site.

All the studies you linked to are funded by those who profit from the sales of those drugs and have zero credibility, if you're going to just believe someone trying to sell you something and ignore independant, unbiased studies you have a problem.

The bulk of side effects are rather mild? Get your damn head out of the sand, drug side effects are the 3rd leading cause of death killing 106,000 americans a year and the #1 cause of disease making 2,200,000 americans sick every year (and studies say you need to multiply those by 5-20 for more realistic numbers). Conventional medicine in general (drugs, surgery, etc.) kills 10,000 to 40,000 patients ***PER DAY*** and is the #1 cause of death, killing far more people than cancer (study: Death by medicine, made by doctors themselves) and every single time doctors go on strike the death rate falls by 18-50%, and jumps right back up to "normal" levels when doctors go back to work.

You'll be getting paid $300k doing what? Being a quack doctor (if you're a doctor, you must be a quack by law as law states only drugs can be used to treat diseases, and science and logic prove drugs can only make you sicker)?

If people are too lazy to eat better, then they are better off not doing anything because the unbiased studies show that patients die sooner taking the drugs than doing nothing at all.

Average lifespan does not continue to go up, it has reached it's summet at 77 years and is now falling to 72 years for my generation, that's a 5 year fall in lifespan in a period of like 30 years. What made the life span go up before drugs were invented was better hygene, the sewer system (saved more lives than any other medical invention but the credit is falsely passed on to antibiotics and vaccines which in fact increase disease rates because those make continuous profits while the sewer system cause continuous expenses for maintenance) and better nutrition which is now getting worst.

So maybe it's time you stop looking exclusively at the studies done by or funded by the drug companies themselves which of course will only show positive results, and start looking at unbiased independant studies which show the truth.

[ch2s]

Oh, and if drugs are so great, why is humanity getting sicker and sicker at an alarming rate? In 1900 only 1 out of 33 people had cancer, it's now 1 out of 2 people since 2005. 1 out of 3 have diabetes, heart disease kills more than ever before, heart attack rates are up 300% since doctors started prescribing blood pressure and cholesterol drugs (both of which increase heart attack risk), the death rate of people around 60 has gone up 90%, and average lifespan is falling by 5 years.

What a great system of medicine eh? The system is specifically made to make and keep people as sick as possible, and the above statistics prove it works very well... for them.

[ch2s]

I've looked at the absurd, industry funded, clearly manipulated studies you posted and here are my observations:
The first one on mortality rate is only a 1 year study, drugs kill you after 5, 10, 20 years, not 1, so of course it may show lowered mortality. a 10 year study would clearly show the opposite.

The other 6 year study only looks at MI recurrence, not overall mortality (the drugs kill you by giving you other diseases which are then blamed on bad luck or the patient's genes, to hide the fact that the drug caused the disease and death).

So you're clearly a very gullible and easily manipulated person, it's terrifying to think people will trust you with their life and death situations.

You only want to be a doctor for the money and probably don't care at all about helping others, you'll be forced to push deadly quack treatments onto patients unless you want to start your own independant practice where you'd be freer to use honest treatments like better diet and exercise (doctors suggestion a better diet before prescribing drugs often loose their license and are sometimes jailed for using a non approved treatment).

I was nearly killed and left to suffer by the health care system, while I was taking their deadly drugs I was sicker and in more pain than I ever was in my entire life, and was suffering from at least 3 diseases at the age of 17. At about 22 years old, I was sick of being made sicker for profit and started looking at independant science and saw that all 3 of my diseases where due to my extremely toxic diet, something I had doubted by my doctor insisted "keep eating anything you want, it has absolutely nothing to do with your health, diseases are genetic or bad luck and have nothing to do with diet". Since I've improved my diet and quit all drugs, I'm healthier than I ever was in my life and it's been that wway for many years.

Seeing the crimes of the health care system and nearly being one of the 10,000 to 40,000 people they kill per day gave me a new passion for helping others, and since I'm physically active this led me to want to become a firefigher, where you can honestly help others, unlike doctors which are forced to leave the patients to suffer and die in exchange of profit.

[FF8114]

Oh, and if drugs are so great, why is humanity getting sicker and sicker at an alarming rate? In 1900 only 1 out of 33 people had cancer, it's now 1 out of 2 people since 2005. 1 out of 3 have diabetes, heart disease kills more than ever before, heart attack rates are up 300% since doctors started prescribing blood pressure and cholesterol drugs (both of which increase heart attack risk), the death rate of people around 60 has gone up 90%, and average lifespan is falling by 5 years.

What a great system of medicine eh? The system is specifically made to make and keep people as sick as possible, and the above statistics prove it works very well... for them.

This is a bit of a stretch don't you think?

Don't you think our health issues have more to do with our damaged food supply and current dietary habits than they do with some conspiracy in the medical profession?

Also I assume you are looking only at America. Does your theory stand up in other countries as well?

[ch2s]

You're 100% correct that the source of the problem is the terrible dietary habits of most people and the toxic, chemical loaded "food" supply. But once people are made sick by this, the "health care" system exploits patients by keeping them sick and making them sicker with drugs.

I am also not at all looking just at america, it's just as bad is about any country that uses synthetic drugs as a form of medical treatment. In fact in Isreal the funeral industry was devastated when doctors went on strike for months which caused a 50% fall in the death rate for the time of the strike. The funeral industry was releived when doctors went back to work killing people with toxic drugs.