Shoulder pain getting me down

[Khodiak]

The last few months my shoulders have been killing me, even sleeping on them hurts. I have been trying different movements instead of benching and pressing which helps some. I love lifting heavy and doing benches and presses so I am getting bummed out, I feel like I am going to loose my strength and size which I pride myself on. I am taking Animal Flex and all my other joints feel better except my damn shoulders.

It sucks getting older, this is the first time I have actually felt my age creeping up on me.

On a positive note, I started leaning out a bit. I am down to 255 as of yesterday from my normal 270 range. Pants are getting really baggy which is a good sign. I am starting to think I could easily get down to 230-240.

[dbx]

A majority here will suggest using DBs. Fine, but it sounds like you've got genuine issues that you need to see a doc about. Gimpy shoulders seem to be commonplace for a lot of guys as we age. Unfortunately, I've had f'cked up shoulders since late teens, and spent a few decades just dealing with it, and I slept the same way you do (arm under pillow/head?) You can do things to try to avoid aggravation, but you won't likely solve the underlying problem. See a specialist when you get a chance. I put it off for a long time and just got by with cortisone shots. That ran its course. Finally, last yr had arthroscopic surgery on both shoulders. Best of luck.

[carbkilla]

It's a drag but the shoulders seem to be a limiting factor for many. Do you know all the shoulder stretches? Better start stretching, small tears can form adhesions then try and get them unstuck, real pain. An orthopedic doc was a big help in teaching me how to take care of my shoulders. Ice, nsiads, stretches,rest, you have to ease up and rehab yourself, no other way.


CK

[lookingtogrow]

Shoulder issues suck! I've got issues with my right posterior rotator cuff...

Reps because I feel your pain...literally...

[ironwill2008]

I'm a member of dbx's majority; I'd tell you to try dumbbell pressing, instead of the long bar. If that gives you no relief, then you'll unfortunately have no choice left but to see the doc. Good luck.

[Karl_Hungus]

Just curious -- how close is your rowing strength to your bench press strength? Large imbalances there can create shoulder pain. My shoulders, particularly the left shoulder, used to hurt so bad I couldn't do a single pushup. As is the case for many, my shoulder pain was caused by a strength imbalance and weak external rotators. By upping the volume of horizontal pulling and external rotator work, my shoulders are now completely pain free ... even when benching 400+.

[Khodiak]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

Just curious -- how close is your rowing strength to your bench press strength? Large imbalances there can create shoulder pain. My shoulders, particularly the left shoulder, used to hurt so bad I couldn't do a single pushup. As is the case for many, my shoulder pain was caused by a strength imbalance and weak external rotators. By upping the volume of horizontal pulling and external rotator work, my shoulders are now completely pain free ... even when benching 400+.

This makes sense to me, I am going to explore this issue a little deeper. I have always had an extremely strong shoulder press and bench press. 5 years ago I fractured my spine and had a fusion and since then I neglected a lot of rowing movements. I used to do strong bent over rows and seated rows, its time for me to start hitting those movements again and maybe the strength will even out. I will try this for a few months and if the pain does not subside I think I will have to visit the doc.

[ExCompetitor]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

Just curious -- how close is your rowing strength to your bench press strength? Large imbalances there can create shoulder pain. My shoulders, particularly the left shoulder, used to hurt so bad I couldn't do a single pushup. As is the case for many, my shoulder pain was caused by a strength imbalance and weak external rotators. By upping the volume of horizontal pulling and external rotator work, my shoulders are now completely pain free ... even when benching 400+.

This is very good advice.This is also goes for shoulder pressing...for example if you are doing militaries with 315 you should also be able to do 315 in the opposite plane which would be ChinUps...which in your case would be bodyweight(270) plus a 45 pound plate....i have always strived to be equal in strength or close to it on opposing planes and have never had a major injury.

[Firminator4]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

Just curious -- how close is your rowing strength to your bench press strength? Large imbalances there can create shoulder pain. My shoulders, particularly the left shoulder, used to hurt so bad I couldn't do a single pushup. As is the case for many, my shoulder pain was caused by a strength imbalance and weak external rotators. By upping the volume of horizontal pulling and external rotator work, my shoulders are now completely pain free ... even when benching 400+.

Since both shoulders are hurting this is exactly what I would look at. My shoulder problems have pretty much disappeared since I started spending as much or more time on my back, rear delt and shrugs than I do for presses. My front delts and pecs had gotten much stronger than my rear delts, traps and back. This was causing my entire shoulder girdle to be pulled forward too much. When that happens stuff starts rubbing that shouldn't be when you have good alignment. I'm not a medical guy but that was my experience. Good Luck

[GreenWave1]

BB bench gave me RC problems. I went to DBs and added RC exercises at the end of chest day and shoulder day. I just started BB bench again, and so far, so good.

[greyhair]

K,
I have to give you a x4 on the dumb bells.
If the RC still hurts with the DB, do them on a decline. For me that avoids lots of pain.
Dips and weighted dips work pretty well too.

I was coming back on bench and was doing pretty well.
My strategy was to work about 8 weeks of volume training on bench.
I was up to 8-11 reps/set at 225 for a total of 30 reps and then I got stupid.
I decided to try some "explosive" moves. So at the bottom, of my second set of 10@225 I wrecked my shoulder on the 3rd rep.
I'll never do that again.
Just like you, it hurts when I sleep.
Back to the dumbells and dips.

[Khodiak]

Great advice everyone. I now have a few things I can try before going to the docs, thank you. Karl_Hungus I gave you reps for pointing out the imbalance problem.... thanks a ton.

[domineaux]

I see guys working to mess up their shoulders all the time at the gym.

It does no good to talk to them. I just watch them go to work on their rotator cuffs and what have you. LOL

Most important, shoulders may look like the big and powerul muscle group. They aren't. You can hurt your shoulders and be out of training for months, because your shoulders are involved in so many exercises.

You can do the military presses, incline presses, db raises, etc. You can dedicate a whole area of your training to your shoulders. Think about how much work your shoulders are getting in all other above the waist exercises.

It's OK to work shoulders, but extremes can injure you. I watched a guy doing side lateral shoulder raises the other day with 170 pounds per shoulder. This guy is cranking for an injury. Doubt I'll know, except he won't be at the gym for couple months. LOL

Watch some of the videos on Youtube about bb training. Watch the shoulder routines of the pros, you'll see heavy presses. Yet, you wont' see them doing heavy side and forward lateral raises.

Heavy is important, but there are some muscle groups you have to be careful with heavy.

[The Crush]

Originally Posted by carbkilla

It's a drag but the shoulders seem to be a limiting factor for many. Do you know all the shoulder stretches? Better start stretching, small tears can form adhesions then try and get them unstuck, real pain. An orthopedic doc was a big help in teaching me how to take care of my shoulders. Ice, nsiads, stretches,rest, you have to ease up and rehab yourself, no other way.


CK

I have an ongoing problem between the middle of my back and my shoulder blade and have been dealing with it using the above tips. However I am not doing so well on the taking it easy part. LOL! That's the hardest part of all.

[truthandlife]

Might also help you to start doing glucosamine, chondroitin and fish oil. I have been on Animal Flex the past 3 weeks and I can see some improvement on my shoulder pain.

[TDetroit]

i had the same thing a while back. it's a peircing pain, like a pencil being shoved into the joint, right? I had it, and so did a few other people. I'll tell you what worked for all of us, not that it is a garauntee for you. we switched to pushups.

it's a body weight excercies that incorporates a lot of muscles and builds the body evenly. within a few weeks, the shoulder pain went away. now I bench all the time, but I keep the pushups in the schedule. no pain

[culican]

I had horrible shoulder pain a few years ago. I would take a couple of weeks off and when I went back to lifting the pain would come right back.

About that time I decided to try hypertrophy-specific training (more info at http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_II.html )

I can't say that I really grew that much on it but my shoulder pain did go away. What I think worked was the fact that you take about two weeks off and then start, with very light weights, doing sets of 15 reps for two weeks. I think the high rep, light weight sets helped my shoulders to heal.

I don't use this program on a regular basis but any time I have joint problems or tendinitis I stop, take two weeks off, and then re-start with light weights and sets of 15's. Always works. I think the blood flow from the 15's helps to heal the injury.

Your mileage may vary.

[Beachmaster]

Khodiak, based on the severity of your symptoms, the fact that the pain is impacting on your sleep and adversely effecting your training and quality of life, I would suggest NOT engaging or testing yourself any further with other training regimens UNTIL you rule out the underlying basis for your injury! To do otherwise is setting yourself up for the possiblity of further injury, more complex surgical interventions and prolonged rehabiliation. I know of what I speak because in spite of experiencing pain I continued to push myself until the pain was intolerable requiring major surgery on both shoulders and very long post surgical rehabilitations.

The fact that you have a history of a fractured spine and subsequent fusion makes it more relevant to push aside your drive to continue to work out so intensely and to instead seek out a consult with an Orthopedic Surgeon who specializes in shoulder injuries. It is not advancing age that is causing you such grief BUT the intense drive that pushes many of us to continue to do things that are not good for ourselves especially when our bodies are giving off signals, such as intense pain, warning us to cease and desist. Listen to what your body is telling you and take care of yourself, NOT your weights!

[dartol]

Put me in the gimpy shoulder club here, I have been trying to get past a problem right internal rotator since April.

My MRI did not show a tear, but physical therapy and Celebrex just didn't do anything for me... I had a cortisone shot a couple of weeks ago though, I am still hopeful that it is just inflammation. I was finally able to do 20 pushups from my knees and that didnt seem to hurt it, I am hoping I can start to do real pushups again soon.

Here is a great post with links for shoulder research that you may find interesting. Some great reading in there, particularly the 'shouilder savers' series (well, except the last part).
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...11&postcount=8

I agree that you should find a good sports ortho doc and get checked out... it does sound like an imbalance since both are bothering you though.

Someone mentioned sleeping with arm under pillow, is that really bad? I have always done that...

Darren

[Khodiak]

Originally Posted by Beachmaster

Khodiak, based on the severity of your symptoms, the fact that the pain is impacting on your sleep and adversely effecting your training and quality of life, I would suggest NOT engaging or testing yourself any further with other training regimens UNTIL you rule out the underlying basis for your injury! To do otherwise is setting yourself up for the possiblity of further injury, more complex surgical interventions and prolonged rehabiliation. I know of what I speak because in spite of experiencing pain I continued to push myself until the pain was intolerable requiring major surgery on both shoulders and very long post surgical rehabilitations.

The fact that you have a history of a fractured spine and subsequent fusion makes it more relevant to push aside your drive to continue to work out so intensely and to instead seek out a consult with an Orthopedic Surgeon who specializes in shoulder injuries. It is not advancing age that is causing you such grief BUT the intense drive that pushes many of us to continue to do things that are not good for ourselves especially when our bodies are giving off signals, such as intense pain, warning us to cease and desist. Listen to what your body is telling you and take care of yourself, NOT your weights!

I will take your warnings seriously, I thank you for you concern. My shoulder workout this week only consisted of rear delt movements and light weight. It felt really good it was more of a stretching workout, I am sure the pain is radiating from the front delt area. I really think I have an imbalance in my delts, I am going to listen to my body and not push it hard. I am going to concentrate on more refining movements instead of strength movements. It is about time I start trimming up anyways, I was feeling pretty limited at 270 lbs and I know the heavier weights I was lifting were taking their toll on my joints.

I know I have a problem with my front delts working too much when I bench (dumbells or barbells), I do not know if it is my physiology or not. I have a full chest with pretty mature muscle development. I do have fairly long arms for my physique so maybe that could be effecting the mechanics of my benching/pressing movements. Now that I am older I think the pain is more pronounced as well. If it continues after a few weeks of this new training philosophy or if the pain gets worse I will definitely seek out a orthopedic surgeon.

[Khodiak]

Originally Posted by TDetroit

i had the same thing a while back. it's a peircing pain, like a pencil being shoved into the joint, right? I had it, and so did a few other people. I'll tell you what worked for all of us, not that it is a garauntee for you. we switched to pushups.

it's a body weight excercies that incorporates a lot of muscles and builds the body evenly. within a few weeks, the shoulder pain went away. now I bench all the time, but I keep the pushups in the schedule. no pain

This is a good description of the pain. I will try pushups as well, thanks Tdetroit.

[partsRheavy]

Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus

Just curious -- how close is your rowing strength to your bench press strength? Large imbalances there can create shoulder pain. My shoulders, particularly the left shoulder, used to hurt so bad I couldn't do a single pushup. As is the case for many, my shoulder pain was caused by a strength imbalance and weak external rotators. By upping the volume of horizontal pulling and external rotator work, my shoulders are now completely pain free ... even when benching 400+.

Right on! For bench day, I do bench, then incline, then rows, and then the dip machine. Then I usually do some overhead presses with high reps.

The incline is the riskiest for me, because it seems most intense on the small muscles in the shoulder. I've had tiny twinges here and there that 1 or two days of rest and some attention to "opposite" movements have cured. Nothing serious, because if I feel something like a little twinge, I stop the movement for a few days.

It's really important, at least to me, to do the pulling movement of the rows and the downward push of the dip machine in the same workout with the benching.

I guess it's sort of a thing of listening to your body.

Stretching is great, too, especially pre w/o and on off days just sitting around. There's a laminated card with a few different stretches at a jobsite I know (and they get reps for having that except they're not at BB.com LOL).

I'd definitely try some fish oil along with the rows and dips, and I'd mix in some light weight high rep days like some other posters have said. And dittos on the db's for bench/incline. Maybe skip incline sometimes and just do shoulder press or flat bench?

I know it sounds like BroScience (SisScience LOL?) but I hope that some rest, pulling movements, db's for bench, high rep days, and some fish oil will help so that you don't need to see a doctor.

The funny thing is that I originally found this forum by Googling "weightlifting injury" last year when my lower back was learning ALL ABOUT rowing motions in a factory LOL. It was just DOMS but that job introduced me to a new sport that has been terrific for me and my mood and energy level. For one thing, it's dropped my pants size from 12 to 8.

Since then, I've learned SO much!

Khodiak - take care/hope this helps! Maybe, try taking a week off to let the tendons catch up with those Alaskan Bear muscles you've been rocking!

Best wishes!

[neutrolizr]

I feel your pain bud!

My right shoulder hurts most of the time. Too much weight, too long. As we get older our tendons and ligaments cant take the STRETCH...they become more brittle.

Unfortunately, the best med is rest, then come back with light, high rep sets, and work your way up. As I work out, the pain decreases, but the next day, and the day after that, YOUCH!

I never say Im old, or hate getting older. I feel ageless, but between us...we are aging. Do it smart so you age well, not all broken up.....lol...uh...broken up like me!

definitely use glucosamine though. The stuff is fantastic. Forget that osteobicrap stuff. a few bucks will buy you a month or two supply...just remember to take them. In a week, you'll start to notice a difference.

[emcdan]

I started having those sharp joint pains several years following shoulder injuries. I seperated both shoulders on two different motorcross incidents. I have tryed the cortisone route. Its works good if you continue to have serious pain.

What has worked for me is too shorten my range of motion for chest and shoulder workouts on the days that I'm a little nervous about the joint pain. No complete extension of the arms or moving the hands below the shoulder joint. As you can tell, your range of motion is extremely limited but the stress is limited also. ie...Bench does not go completely to the chest....military goes to the chin only so on so forth. You may have to reduce weight but your form is much better. This is working for me.

[Steve_T]

Good advice on this thread...I'm reading it all eagerly myself.

[Bronzebird]

Originally Posted by Khodiak

The last few months my shoulders have been killing me, even sleeping on them hurts. I have been trying different movements instead of benching and pressing which helps some. I love lifting heavy and doing benches and presses so I am getting bummed out, I feel like I am going to loose my strength and size which I pride myself on. I am taking Animal Flex and all my other joints feel better except my damn shoulders.

It sucks getting older, this is the first time I have actually felt my age creeping up on me.

On a positive note, I started leaning out a bit. I am down to 255 as of yesterday from my normal 270 range. Pants are getting really baggy which is a good sign. I am starting to think I could easily get down to 230-240.

I was concerned with shoulders and sleeping pains and overhead movements like rebound baskest ball or blocking a shot. Then read the preventive routine for the cuff and Dam'n. Within about 3 workouts I noticed sleeping postions did not hurt any more. Kept up with the routine and can now throw the football, and play basketball. Search the exercise list... it will be worth it

[Arpats]

I feel pain only in the left shoulder, somewhere above the shoulder blade. What I do now is wait it to heal somehow, meanwhile minimizing the stress directed to the shoulder. Some of the excercizes I do only with the right hand (yeah, I know it sounds funny and invites elaborations) and in a few month I'm going to resemble that guy with a huge iron arm from the Mortal Kombat...

[ReelCrazy]

Im new here and it is my first post. Shoulders are not fun when they are hurt.
I have had 4 shoulder surgeries in the past 5 years all on the right shoulder.

I had 2 scopes an ACLR and the last one january of this year was a rotator cuff.

My advise is Do not wait to see the Doctor, Things can only get worse.

I just got the OK from my Doc to hit the gym again. Its Been pure hell.
I am very limited on what i can do because I lost 50% motion in one shoulder. So Over head lifting is pretty much out.

Really Dont push the shoulders until you get them checked out.

[X-REPPER]

I'm having a shoulder problem as well
my problem acts up when using dumbells for incline and especially
flat bench DB presses it's geting them into position that causes the problem.

My solution which isn't foolproof but usually helps alot is to use power hooks

and light three way laterals before and after

i also take jointment sport three times a day and use absorbent blue
horse liniment i also do quite a few warm up sets maybe as many as 6-7
before my main set.

[GuyJin]

Khodiak,

Since everyone is recommending using RC exercises and more rear delt/back work, I(ll just add, that, yes, of course, do those exercises, and seek help from a specialist to make sure it's nothing more serious.

The only other thing I can recommend is that if the imbalance is that severe between front and back, I'd lay off heavy chest pressing and chest work in general for a bit; that will allow your upper back and rear delts to catch up a little. Considering the size of your chest, I doubt you'll lose anything worth mentioning by backing off and/or lightening up a little.

Hope your training is going well.