Help Learning the Power Clean

[/JV/]

Hey guys. I'm not a regular in this section, but I thought you all would be among the most knowledgeable about the power clean. I just started learning it on my own a few weeks ago, beginning with the jump. I've been reading up on it and watching videos online, but it's still really awkward when I do it. I have a bunch of questions, but one thing at a time...

Would any of you be willing to take a look at my video and give me a few of the most critical things I should focus on in the next week or two?



And if you have any suggestions or tips based on how you learned to do it, I would be happy to hear them.

[crackyflipside]

Work on starting the powerclean above your knees (hang power clean) Just focus on popping the bar up using leg + hip strength then drop under the bar to catch it. Progress to catching it lower and lower until you are doing a hang squat clean.



When you get good at that then do heavy powercleans from the floor.

[/JV/]

Here's one of me doing just the jump:



So after I jump, I need to land lower? I can try that.

One thing I don't really understand is where the power comes from to lift the bar. I think that must explain the lack of explosiveness in my movement. If the jump occurs at mid-thigh, the legs are almost fully extended, the hips are almost fully extended, so it doesn't seem like they can do that much. What am I missing?

And how much involvement does the shoulder shrug play in lifting the bar?

[madaozeki]

This is from a post I made a while ago in another thread about cleans:
-----------------
A clean is a very different movement from jumping.

1. When you jump in sports, you move rapidly into a quarter-squat on the balls of your feet, then explode upwards, all the while pushing through the balls of your feet.
2. When cleaning, your weight is back on your heels, and you push through them all the way up. You maintain a controlled posture until the bar passes your knees, then straighten up as hard as you can, imparting upward momentum on the bar. Your weight will continually be pushing through your heels.

Get the whole jumping thing out of your mind. It's NOT a helpful analogy to perfect the clean (for most people, ESPECIALLY beginners). In your vid, you're essentially jumping with the bar in your hands, and it's flying all over the place.

The clean is actually just standing up HARD with the bar. The momentum comes from the acceleration as you straighten up. When you're done standing up, change directions immediately and get under the bar.
--------------

So it's basically:

1. Get yourself into your start position, keep everything tight.
2. Break the bar off the floor by pushing with your legs; keep your back angle the same (ie. don't straighten it up) until the bar reaches your knees
3. Rise in a controlled fashion, keeping the bar in a good position
4. When the bar passes your knees, finish standing up hard; the bar will accelerate here as your back straightens
5. Your arms are dead straight this whole time!
6. As soon as you finish straightening up completely, your body changes direction while the bar keeps rising. You NEVER actively PULL on the bar with your arms. All the upward momentum on the bar comes from standing up straight HARD.
7. Move INSTANTANEOUSLY into your receiving position, whipping your elbows lightning-fast and "placing" the bar actively in the rack position

Whether you're doing squat cleans or power cleans, all of the above advice holds.

The power comes from the point the bar passes your knees until you've finished standing up. That's where you accelerate the most and impart upward momentum on to the bar.

Hope some of that helps! See Raffiki's videos in the stickie section to help get yourself on track

[/JV/]

madaozeki, that is an interesting way to think about it. I was definitely thinking about jumping from the balls of my feet. I just tried to do a couple "air" cleans from the knees and it makes a lot more sense for me to think about it as you described it. Stand up hard, push through heels, the bar does what it does, and I just make sure I land low enough to be under the bar. I can't wait to actually try this with a bar.

[crackyflipside]

I don't have the best form, but it will get the point across in what madeo was saying.

[madaozeki]

Nice pictures! The guy at the bottom there is pretty good, too.

[AusLifter06]

Also concentrate on brushing the bar on the lower thigh (just above the knee) before the standing up hard/ exploding part. Hook grip, focus on a spot on the wall slightly up.

[J.L.C.]

This is my power clean post

Originally Posted by J.L.C.

The lift should start with the bar on the floor, positioned over top of where the toes meet the foot. Hips slightly higher than knees with a strong arch in the back, and shoulders in front of the bar.

The lift from the floor to approximately mid-thigh is called the 1st pull. It is done entirely with the legs. Thinking about 'pushing the floor away' helps, similar to a leg press, slowly press the floor away and 'pull the knees back', the angle of the hips and lower back should not change.

The 2nd pull starts at just above mid-thigh - this is where you explode. Triple extension - ankle, knee, hip - is the goal of this phase. Stand up HARD and shrug the body under.

The 2nd pull ends when the body hits triple extension and the shoulders are shrugged - the arms should still be straight at the end of the 2nd pull. Do not pull with your arms, power cleans are not jumping-upright-row-reverse-curls!

The force of the triple extension sends the bar up. As the bar rises the lifter 'whips' their elbows under the bar and 'racks' it across the shoulders. This is difficult to do if you have pulled the bar up with the arms.

Power cleans are pulled higher than squat cleans, usually to give the legs a break - this is why lighter weights are used for power cleans.

Here's how I do them:







Lots of stretching of the forearm flexors, triceps, and shoulder girdle (dislocates) will help with the mobility and will make the rack position more comfortable. Practicing the lift and positions with an empty bar is a great way to develop the flexibility - keep at it

[/JV/]

Another thing I notice that's different is hand contact with the bar when getting the bar up to the rack position. My hands are not gripped tightly, but they're still in contact with the bar, and I can feel that I am rotating the bar. It appears in various videos that the hands are supposed to rotate around the bar. Is this correct? So should I be loosening my grip enough so that the bar is almost floating for a split second while I move my arms into position?

[madaozeki]

Originally Posted by AnotherSet

Another thing I notice that's different is hand contact with the bar when getting the bar up to the rack position. My hands are not gripped tightly, but they're still in contact with the bar, and I can feel that I am rotating the bar. It appears in various videos that the hands are supposed to rotate around the bar. Is this correct? So should I be loosening my grip enough so that the bar is almost floating for a split second while I move my arms into position?

It's largely a matter of flexibility, and beyond that, personal preference. My coach tried to drill me to maintain a "grip" (not tight) on the bar right into the rack position, essentially "placing" the bar across my shoulders. However, all I ever developed was sore shoulders and forearms, so I went back to a fingertip grip, ie. the 2nd thing you mention. Basically, as long as you have a consistent pull and the bar ends up in the same place every time, having a grip vs not isn't too important; just get the elbows up high however you feel comfortable to create a solid racking area.

[bango skank]

My PC tutorial. Be sure to follow the links at the end too.

[/JV/]

Good resources. I really like the book overall, and I have seen benefits in all of the other exercises, but that chapter just doesn't work for me.

I understand the gist of what I'm supposed to do, but I haven't been able to figure out how to translate it into actions I can execute. I just have to take one thing at a time or else I'll lose focus and everything will suffer. I've been working on it, but progress has been very slow. I'll post an update when there's some improvement and I'm ready for round 2 of comments.

Thanks.

[DMAC72]

okay im 17 years old and im not trying to be cocky but i have perfect power cleaning form. im a bit late to see the video but the guy up their who said dont jump is wrong. and im not sure about your grip but you should cuf the bar not use a hook grip, i dont know if you already knew that. the key thing in getting the results from the power clean is popping your hips out in the middle of the motion. so if you start from the ground, bring the bar up, right when its at around waist level your hips should be popped out and you should be on your toes, while only raising the bar a bit more(more guiding it with your arms not actually lifting it all arms but more with the momentum) ,do a slight jump, retract your hips and drop under the bar, and land on your heels in the quarter squat position, while letting the bar roll back in your fingers(thus cuffing the bar not hooking it) to your collar bone, while still having some control of the bar with your hands. when you bring the bar back in your hands to your collar bone area, bring your elbows up. this helps the weight stay balanced over your center of gravity while being in the squat so you dont want to dump it.

sorry for the the crappy grammar in the wall of text im just in a hurry. i have to go to homecoming right now when i get back or tomorrow I will make a video so its easier to understand. if you do it the right compared to some of the other ways i've heard in here you will get the results of the clean which makes you much quicker in your hips and your traps get a mild workout during the process.

[madaozeki]

Originally Posted by DMAC72

okay im 17 years old and im not trying to be cocky but i have perfect power cleaning form. im a bit late to see the video but the guy up their who said dont jump is wrong. and im not sure about your grip but you should cuf the bar not use a hook grip, i dont know if you already knew that. the key thing in getting the results from the power clean is popping your hips out in the middle of the motion. so if you start from the ground, bring the bar up, right when its at around waist level your hips should be popped out and you should be on your toes, while only raising the bar a bit more(more guiding it with your arms not actually lifting it all arms but more with the momentum) ,do a slight jump, retract your hips and drop under the bar, and land on your heels in the quarter squat position, while letting the bar roll back in your fingers(thus cuffing the bar not hooking it) to your collar bone, while still having some control of the bar with your hands. when you bring the bar back in your hands to your collar bone area, bring your elbows up. this helps the weight stay balanced over your center of gravity while being in the squat so you dont want to dump it.

sorry for the the crappy grammar in the wall of text im just in a hurry. i have to go to homecoming right now when i get back or tomorrow I will make a video so its easier to understand. if you do it the right compared to some of the other ways i've heard in here you will get the results of the clean which makes you much quicker in your hips and your traps get a mild workout during the process.

You may have brilliant form but you've stated several things that are simply incorrect about power-cleaning form. I'm the guy that said jumping is wrong, because, well, it is.

Have fun at homecoming

[/\/\ichael]

This is a good vid to learn power clean form:

[DMAC72]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

You may have brilliant form but you've stated several things that are simply incorrect about power-cleaning form. I'm the guy that said jumping is wrong, because, well, it is.

Have fun at homecoming

oh really? their is a point to the jump. the power clean is built to train athletes. they are constantly in the quarter squat position on the toes and in the air. the jump is supposed to be their.i think i would know what im talking about i can clean a bit over 200, for my weight its pretty good. not with any other lifts, but with the power clean thats pretty good, and if your saying my form is wrong well i dont know i must be lucky.

[bango skank]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

You may have brilliant form but you've stated several things that are simply incorrect about power-cleaning form. I'm the guy that said jumping is wrong, because, well, it is.

Have fun at homecoming

Do you mean jumping is wrong as an instructional cue, or that no jump occurs in the movement? Because I don't know how else your feet could leave the ground, pending a reversal in the Earth's gravity.

[deadlift425]

Your feet shouldn't leave the ground much, only to transition into the front squat receiving position. Feet in the air cannot catch the bar effectively if its excessive(believe me I have done it, and have made better cleans for catching that error).

[bango skank]

Originally Posted by deadlift425

Your feet shouldn't leave the ground much, only to transition into the front squat receiving position. Feet in the air cannot catch the bar effectively if its excessive(believe me I have done it, and have made better cleans for catching that error).

again I'll ask, how does one's feet leave the ground without a jump?

They can't. There is a "jump," no matter how muted it may be.

I agree though that it isn't always useful as an instructional cue when learning the lift, that the jump is a natural consequence of simultaneous hip extension and power shrugging. But it's still there, just the same.

[madaozeki]

First, DMAC, no offense, but you're a bit out of your league in this discussion and not really contributing any sort of knowledge... post a vid of your form if you want some help Hope homecoming was a blast!

-------

Now, if you define "jump" as simply propelling oneself in the air using your legs, then yes, there may be a "jump" in a correctly-performed powerclean, though it's certainly not necessary. One can easily powerclean with the feet touching the ground the whole time, simply sliding out slightly to achieve the receiving position (see videos at the bottom). So no, it is NOT "always there", unless your style is to include it.

However, even if you do "jump" during a clean, this does NOT closely resemble a prototypical "jump" in any sort of athletic endeavor, like high jumping, jumping in basketball, etc.

Jumping in sports
Generally performed by quickly transitioning into a quarter-squat position ON THE BALLS OF YOUR FEET (like DMAC was talking about briefly), then exploding upwards with ankles extending. The heels are almost never touching the ground at any point during a jump. One rarely jumps from a flat-footed position during a game, since you tend to not jump as high when you do so. The purpose of jumping (in general) is to get oneself as high as possible off the ground.

Powercleans
Here, the purpose is NOT to get oneself as high as possible off the ground. Rather, the purpose is to transfer as much upward momentum to the bar as possible. This is accomplished by keeping the bar close to your center of gravity WITH YOUR FEET PLANTED FLAT ON THE FLOOR, and extending yourself powerfully until you are standing up completely straight. Maximum power transfer is achieved with your weight pushing THROUGH YOUR HEELS, not the balls of your feet. A proper powerclean need not have any ankle extension at all (ie. you don't have to rise up on your toes to finish the lift), nor do your feet have to leave the ground at all.

This means that if you (a) try to powerclean by "jumping" in the athletic sense, you will not transfer power as efficiently to the bar, and put yourself at far greater risk of injury, and (b) try to "jump" in a basketball game using the same technique as a powerclean, you will find yourself outjumped by even the shortest person on the court

This is why it's VERY important to get the whole "jumping" idea out of your mind when learning to powerclean. The vast majority of trainees can't get the idea of an athletic "jump" out of their mind when being told to "jump" when cleaning, and this is highly detrimental to developing proper and maximally-efficient form.

Watch videos of the top lifters (non-American) and watch their FEET closely. In general, once the lifter is finished extending upwards, their feet immediately transition to a receiving position. This is so far removed from any idea of "jumping" that it's clear the word has no place in learning the Olympic lifts. Compare the motion of the feet in the following videos with cleans performed by football players or at Crossfit gyms here in the US, where you'll see lots of lifters "donkey-kicking" their feet up to their ass and slamming their feet down. This is a HIGHLY inefficient technique.

Dimas


Steiner


Ilin

[The_cannibal]

Is the power clean essentially a "normal" clean without a full squat to catch the bar? or is the difference much more than that?

Thanks.

[bango skank]

Originally Posted by madaozeki

Now, if you define "jump" as simply propelling oneself in the air using your legs, then yes, there may be a "jump" in a correctly-performed powerclean, though it's certainly not necessary. One can easily powerclean with the feet touching the ground the whole time, simply sliding out slightly to achieve the receiving position (see videos at the bottom). So no, it is NOT "always there", unless your style is to include it.

However, even if you do "jump" during a clean, this does NOT closely resemble a prototypical "jump" in any sort of athletic endeavor, like high jumping, jumping in basketball, etc.


Here, the purpose is NOT to get oneself as high as possible off the ground. Rather, the purpose is to transfer as much upward momentum to the bar as possible.

if you try to powerclean by "jumping" in the athletic sense, you will not transfer power as efficiently to the bar, and put yourself at far greater risk of injury

The vast majority of trainees can't get the idea of an athletic "jump" out of their mind when being told to "jump" when cleaning, and this is highly detrimental to developing proper and maximally-efficient form.

Compare the motion of the feet in the following videos with cleans performed by football players or at Crossfit gyms here in the US, where you'll see lots of lifters "donkey-kicking" their feet up to their ass and slamming their feet down. This is a HIGHLY inefficient technique.

You make very, very valid points. I admit that instructing the trainee to "jump," is completely useless in this regard, because any attempt to do so will be taken in the "athletic" sense and result in a donkey kick. Spot on. (I actually just took the bit about jumping out of the SS Wiki.)

But it's difficult to remove the notion entirely when, technically, the upward momentum being greater than gravity's pull results in a "jump," and also because the three main positions in learning the power clean are the rack position, the hang position, and the jumping position.

It's extremely important though to make the distinction between the prototypical jump and the jump as it relates to the power clean because any attempt on the part of the trainee to actively "jump" within the context of the power clean will rarely result in success.

Good post.

[bango skank]

For those curious what a "donkey kick," looks like:



This is Bad.

[d34dlift]

Originally Posted by bango skank

For those curious what a "donkey kick," looks like:



This is Bad.

I lol'd

[madaozeki]

Bango, cool posts and awesome donkey kick That's a GREAT example of someone trying to "jump" while holding the bar in their hands, which illustrates the inefficiency of doing so.

A couple of points:

1. While I absolutely LOVE SS, I've always felt that Rippetoe's explanations and videos of powercleans are poor. He's a genius at explaining the biomechanics and technique of the squat, deadlift, bench, etc, but I don't think he's ever really "gotten" the powerclean. I know he used to train with Bill Starr, but he's never been a competitive Olympic lifter, and one look at the technique of the people he trains shows obvious differences between their form and that of proficient Olympic lifters. Sadly, you'll see a lot of donkey-kicking, foot-slamming, and errant bar paths (swinging the bar out to far from the body) out of his lifters (and Crossfit lifters, and football players). I believe this has a lot to do with his use of the "jumping" analogy. I truly believe the best coaches FOR BEGINNERS never let the word "jump" leave their mouths when teaching...

That being said, I've never heard of a decent Olympic lifting coach breaking down the powerclean into those 3 positions. For an Olympic lifting coach, "jumping", if used at all, refers to "jumping under the bar" after full extension. It's a movement DOWN, which involves a lightning-fast movement into the receiving position, whether for a powerclean or a full clean. The feet slide out slightly to the side and the knees bend to the proper angle.

Enough about the semantics of "jump" I personally choose to keep the definition of "jump" reserved for the athletic version, and retain the use of "hop", "leap", "pounce", etc for other related, yet different motions

2. NOTE for the_cannibal
Yes, a powerclean is identical to a full clean except for the receiving position. A powerclean is received with the knees slightly bent, at parallel or above. A full clean (or "squat clean", or just "clean") is received with the knees below parallel, ie. in a full squat position. The pulls should be identical for powercleans and full cleans. The only difference is that the bar won't be pulled as high for a full clean.

HOWEVER, in the US especially, you'll see a lot of lifters alter their technique on powercleans. They'll tend to do one, some or all of the following to one degree or another: extend up on their toes, shrug hard at the top, lean backwards after finishing the extension, jump the feet out super-wide when receiving it. (there are others) All of the preceeding are done with the goal of lengthening the pull to get the bar HIGHER. Whether they work or not is debatable, but in my opinion when a lifter transitions to doing full cleans, those technique changes only serve to slow the lifter in moving under the bar.

The goal should NOT be to get the bar as high as possible (that may be the RESULT, but it shouldn't be the GOAL). Rather, the goal for a powerclean should be to consistently pull the bar to a specific height (around chest height), and move immediately to a solid receiving position. The goal for a full clean should be to pull the bar to belly-button height, and move immediately to a solid receiving position.

[The_cannibal]

Thanks, madaozeki. Great post as usual.

[madaozeki]

no problem

cool-looking training you're doing there! would be awesome if you got into the Olympic lifts even more

[kingcarlos]

lol that donkey kick is the shat man. btw i feel that sometimes when i power clean, i tend to lean back abit and make the footing unstable. anyway to solve this prob?

[/JV/]

I have to resurrect this old thread because something still seems wrong with what I'm doing, and I'm terrible at identifying things that are wrong.

If any of you could look and give me some specific things that I need to fix, it would be a big help. Thanks.