Breaking through plateaus

[texan64]

First of all, I am a "Hard Gainer". I began weight training with a trainer 2 1/2 years ago at 170 lbs. I used his program for six months, then two others (which were similar) for another 16 months. After 22 months I gained about 12-15 lbs of muscle mass and weighed 185 lbs. Unfortunately I wasn't measured when I first started, so I'm guessing I gained about an inch - maybe 1 1/2 inches all around.
Now for the last 8 months I have hit a plateau. I tried a superset program for three months - nothing. Then I tried an old twice-a-week program from Arnold (all muscle groups twice a week - 4 workouts total) for the last 5 months - nothing. I'm thinking maybe I was overtraining - I don't know.
I am weighing around 188 - 190 lbs now and have decided to embark on a three workout per week program hitting each group only once a week.
I have an average frame - but feel that 10 more pounds of mass should not be beyond my reach and I want to gain it without too many supplements or steroids and the like.
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.

[JC480]

Tell us about your diet -- details

[ironwill2008]

At your age, and with your relatively short training history, you're far from your potential. You haven't said anything about your nutrition program during this time. More often than not, plateaus are caused by nutrition not keeping up with training. I'd re-evaluate my macros; chances are their current levels are holding you back.

[texan64]

Thanks for the replies.
My diet is pretty regimented.
Pre-breakfast
O.J, Protein shake with milk, Opti-men multi-vitamin, fish oil, glycosimine
Breakfast
4 eggs,homefries,wheat toast,coffee, water
Mid morning
oatmeal, fruit, milk, water
Lunch
Chicken breast or 2 chicken salad sandwiches or 2 tuna fish salad sandwiches, veggies, potatoe, wheat bread, water
Mid afternoon
Peanut butter sandwich (4 tblspns), fruit, water
Pre-workout (training days)
X-tend BCAA drink
Post-workout
X-tend BCAA drink
Protein shake with milk
Supper
Chicken breast or 2 fish fillets, large sweet potatoe, veggies, wheat bread, milk
That is my diet Monday thru Friday.
During the weekend I may throw in a pizza, some chinese food and probably a six pack.

[JC480]

Your diet looks decent...seems like you're getting adequate protein and essential carbs/fats.

If your diet has been consistent, the most obvious thing that comes to mind is overtraining. Either too much volume or not enough rests between lift days due to overlapping lifts that work muscle(s)/groups 2 days in a row, etc.

Guess we'd have to know your regimen next.

[texan64]

My workout routine for the last 5 months was as follows:
Monday & Friday
Chest - flat, incline, flyes - each 3 sets/8 reps
Biceps - barbell curls, dumbbell curls - 3/10
Back - pulldowns, shrugs - 3/10

Wed & Sat
Legs - press, curls, calf extensions - 3/8
Triceps - French press, push downs - 3/10
Shoulders - military press, power partials - 3/8

I changed the exercises every week to hit the groups at different angles, but they were basically the same type of exercise. Example: dumbbell flyes - cable flyes - incline flyes

I gained nothing from this program. I feel like I may have been overtraining each group.

[ntrllftr]

I am going to try and explain this the best that I can so bare with me.
You say you started 2 1/2yrs ago and made those gains. SUPER and GREAT JOB!!! Now those gains are called a term we use here "newbie gains"
By making such good gains show that you have really good work ethic when it comes to training.

NOW lets say that you made those same gains this next six months.
Then you made the same gains another six months. You would keep growing and growing and never stop. the human body is very complex and knows its "limits". So what do people like you and me who want to keep getting bigger?


We keep trying and try our best to push our body to go past that "limits" point.


So keep at it and do the best you can is all i can say.

Good luck!!!

.

[gbg]

Originally Posted by ntrllftr

I am going to try and explain this the best that I can so bare with me.
You say you started 2 1/2yrs ago and made those gains. SUPER and GREAT JOB!!! Now those gains are called a term we use here "newbie gains"
By making such good gains show that you have really good work ethic when it comes to training.

NOW lets say that you made those same gains this next six months.
Then you made the same gains another six months. You would keep growing and growing and never stop. the human body is very complex and knows its "limits". So what do people like you and me who want to keep getting bigger?


We keep trying and try our best to push our body to go past that "limits" point.


So keep at it and do the best you can is all i can say.

Good luck!!!

.

Can I see the front of you? I thinks it's rude not to look at people when your talking to them

[JC480]

If you think you've been overtraining, you probably are. That's a fair amount of volume.

I gotta tell you, though. You gained nearly 20 lbs of muscle in 2.5 years...now it's not stellar, but it is respectable.

Anyway, there's alot of people here smarter than me. My suggestion would be to make this a 3 day/week routine like...

Monday - routine 1
Wednesday - routine 2
Friday - routine 1
weekend - rest or cardio
Monday - routine 2
Wednesday - routine 1
etc etc etc

Take a week off of lifting now and then...or at least deload once every 5-6 weeks...you can do your sets with lighter weights or do 1 normal weighted set, but not 3...for that week.

Go from 8 reps to 5 reps and increase the weight.

My 2 cents...good luck and I'm sure there will be more input over the next few days : )

Edit: As you said, you list 3 exercise per muscle group and this is the variety that you use, and not the fact that you're doing all 3 lifts per muscle group correct? Just judging from it, I definitely think you're used to the weights you're lifting. Lift heavier, get more rest...and stick with some basic lifts...if you need to change up all the time for your own mental motivation, more power... but a set selection of high quality lifts for at least 2 months is better I think

[egoatdoor]

Originally Posted by texan64

First of all, I am a "Hard Gainer". I began weight training with a trainer 2 1/2 years ago at 170 lbs. I used his program for six months, then two others (which were similar) for another 16 months. After 22 months I gained about 12-15 lbs of muscle mass and weighed 185 lbs. Unfortunately I wasn't measured when I first started, so I'm guessing I gained about an inch - maybe 1 1/2 inches all around.
Now for the last 8 months I have hit a plateau. I tried a superset program for three months - nothing. Then I tried an old twice-a-week program from Arnold (all muscle groups twice a week - 4 workouts total) for the last 5 months - nothing. I'm thinking maybe I was overtraining - I don't know.
I am weighing around 188 - 190 lbs now and have decided to embark on a three workout per week program hitting each group only once a week.
I have an average frame - but feel that 10 more pounds of mass should not be beyond my reach and I want to gain it without too many supplements or steroids and the like.
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.

In almost all cases, long term plateaus come from nutritional deficiencies and/or stagnation or not getting enough rest, whether it be overtraining or not getting enough sleep.

Originally Posted by texan64

Thanks for the replies.
My diet is pretty regimented.
Pre-breakfast
O.J, Protein shake with milk, Opti-men multi-vitamin, fish oil, glycosimine
Breakfast
4 eggs,homefries,wheat toast,coffee, water
Mid morning
oatmeal, fruit, milk, water
Lunch
Chicken breast or 2 chicken salad sandwiches or 2 tuna fish salad sandwiches, veggies, potatoe, wheat bread, water
Mid afternoon
Peanut butter sandwich (4 tblspns), fruit, water
Pre-workout (training days)
X-tend BCAA drink
Post-workout
X-tend BCAA drink
Protein shake with milk
Supper
Chicken breast or 2 fish fillets, large sweet potatoe, veggies, wheat bread, milk
That is my diet Monday thru Friday.
During the weekend I may throw in a pizza, some chinese food and probably a six pack.

You are now 188 pounds, not 170, and have put on muscle. Thus you are now burning more calories than before and to put on more muscle, you have to eat much more than what you ate at 170 if even to just maintain.

How many calories is this diet? How many grams of protein, carbs and fat is this? You need to tally this and if you are stagnating, then you need to boost the calories. See if you start gaining then. If not, boost it again. You need to be getting at least 1.25 grams of protein per pound and possibly even more. It could be as high at 2.

The diet does lack proper pre and post workout nutritional principles. You are not fueling your body properly before the workout and unless the protein shake has alot of carbs in it, you are not helping with muscle recovery post workout either.

Read this article and page down to points 6 and 7 under Designing a Nutritional Program:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson238.htm

[Fifty+]

Originally Posted by egoatdoor

In almost all cases, long term plateaus come from nutritional deficiencies and/or stagnation or not getting enough rest, whether it be overtraining or not getting enough sleep.



You are now 188 pounds, not 170, and have put on muscle. Thus you are now burning more calories than before and to put on more muscle, you have to eat much more than what you ate at 170 if even to just maintain.

How many calories is this diet? How many grams of protein, carbs and fat is this? You need to tally this and if you are stagnating, then you need to boost the calories. See if you start gaining then. If not, boost it again. You need to be getting at least 1.25 grams of protein per pound and possibly even more. It could be as high at 2.

The diet does lack proper pre and post workout nutritional principles. You are not fueling your body properly before the workout and unless the protein shake has alot of carbs in it, you are helping with muscle recovery post workout either.

Read this article and page down to points 6 and 7 under Designing a Nutritional Program:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson238.htm

The article was good direction for him. His diet wasn't so bad but could use the education you just offered. Green dots to you!
oldfart

[Fifty+]

Originally Posted by texan64

First of all, I am a "Hard Gainer". I began weight training with a trainer 2 1/2 years ago at 170 lbs. I used his program for six months, then two others (which were similar) for another 16 months. After 22 months I gained about 12-15 lbs of muscle mass and weighed 185 lbs. Unfortunately I wasn't measured when I first started, so I'm guessing I gained about an inch - maybe 1 1/2 inches all around.
Now for the last 8 months I have hit a plateau. I tried a superset program for three months - nothing. Then I tried an old twice-a-week program from Arnold (all muscle groups twice a week - 4 workouts total) for the last 5 months - nothing. I'm thinking maybe I was overtraining - I don't know.
I am weighing around 188 - 190 lbs now and have decided to embark on a three workout per week program hitting each group only once a week.
I have an average frame - but feel that 10 more pounds of mass should not be beyond my reach and I want to gain it without too many supplements or steroids and the like.
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.

NO: squats, deadlifts, BB rows or BB/DB bench work. Where are your compound movements? More important is how you're progressing with each set of every exercise. How has weight lifted vs reps performed improved? Do you lift until failure? Have you used techniques such as drop sets, rest-pause and TUL? In a nut shell, how have you pushed yourself? Routines are routines. It's what you put into each rep of each set that determines how your muscles will respond. Don't forget that we are novices and the strength and endurance aspects are still very important to our "bodybuilding" growth. Have you ever considered a powerlifting cycle? Or a challanging fullbody cycle? Don't let your mind get lost in a "physique only" corner if you want to continue adding muscle mass to your body. You stagnate with lifting power or the capacity to breath during a (20 rep. ) squat, your advancement becomes very limited. This is just stuff to think about. Plateaus are not fun and can kcuf with your mind/ego a bit. Don't let it. It's NORMAL for all who have been playing for awhile. Bottom line. Think and believe internally. The routine is just a mix of exercises we love to conquer.
Good luck with your journey.
oldfart

[StressMonkey]

The newbie gains are great. It's so motivating to see your weight steadily increasing. I already miss them.

[KiwiKeen]

Originally Posted by texan64

First of all, I am a "Hard Gainer". I began weight training with a trainer 2 1/2 years ago at 170 lbs. I used his program for six months, then two others (which were similar) for another 16 months. After 22 months I gained about 12-15 lbs of muscle mass and weighed 185 lbs. Unfortunately I wasn't measured when I first started, so I'm guessing I gained about an inch - maybe 1 1/2 inches all around.
Now for the last 8 months I have hit a plateau. I tried a superset program for three months - nothing. Then I tried an old twice-a-week program from Arnold (all muscle groups twice a week - 4 workouts total) for the last 5 months - nothing. I'm thinking maybe I was overtraining - I don't know.
I am weighing around 188 - 190 lbs now and have decided to embark on a three workout per week program hitting each group only once a week.
I have an average frame - but feel that 10 more pounds of mass should not be beyond my reach and I want to gain it without too many supplements or steroids and the like.
Any input and suggestions would be appreciated.

Bro, if you gained 12-15lbs "lean" muscle mass in only 22 months - you are definitely not a hard gainer! that is a phenonmenal amount, especially if you were not on the any juice! go to a butcher and get him to cut you up 15lbs of beef - then you will see what I mean.

[texan64]

Thanks again for all the input.
I do compound exercises and work with dumbbells. I change things up a bit each week.
I was on the verge of heavy, heavy training with squats, but one of the trainers at my gym warned me of spinal compression especially at my age.
Thoughts on this???

[chodan9]

Originally Posted by gbg

Can I see the front of you? I thinks it's rude not to look at people when your talking to them

YEAH!
dont turn your back when your talkin to us!! LOL


besides it reminds me of how much work I have left to do!!

[Fifty+]

Originally Posted by texan64

#1. but one of the trainers at my gym warned me of spinal compression


#2. especially at my age.


Thoughts on this???

#1. I'll answer no. 2 first....

#2. That can not be a mind thought. The more you progress the more you realize "at my age" is nothing more then a mind set. Every time you meet the challanges you set forth, you push back the age factor. If you let "at my age" scare you away from specific exercises or lifting heavy (relative to you only), you limit your abilities and your potential. We're not kids, we understand safety comes first and we are capabile of sound decisions. If bodybuilding is your goal you'll need to constantly challange yourself. And if you're already working heavy sets of squats and your spine hasn't crumbled, hell, you're doing great. Enjoy the challange. Reap the benifits.

back to #1. Wouldn't it be nice to out squat Mr. Pessimist 2 years from now!!??

Good luck with your goals. Take it a day at a time and keep learning. There's no rush, as a matter of fact, you can't rush it. Work smart and be safe.


final note: take a look at some of the workout journals of the 50-70+ elders on the forum....nothing compressed there.
oldfart

[ExCompetitor]

I`m no expert on spinal disc compression but i can tell you that at 52 years of age i still squat twice a week with no back issues....i`m also exactly the same height (5`10) as i was in my twenties.One thing i have always done is to include hanging leg raises for the abs after training legs...i think hanging off the chin bar helps to decompress the spine.

[ironwill2008]

Originally Posted by texan64

I was on the verge of heavy, heavy training with squats, but one of the trainers at my gym warned me of spinal compression especially at my age.
Thoughts on this???

Do you have any medical limitations? If not, squat. I've been squatting once a week for 15 years, and I'm much older than you. I don't do one-rep maxes, but I occasionally do triples. My back, knees, hips, and everything else is in great shape.

Take a look at some of the O35 workout journals, to see what others your size and age are currently doing. Mine is in my signature.