insulin causes obesity?

[coach Hale]

We have been over this numerous times here goes again

Insulin Causes obesity?

?Energy restriction, independent of diet composition (e.g. 15% to 73% CHO) improves glycemic control. The ability to lose weight on a calorie restricted diet over a short-term period does not vary in obese healthy women as a function of insulin resistance or hyperinsulinemia. Golay et al. reported subjects consuming isocaloric diets (1000 kcal) containing 15% CHO had significantly lower insulin levels compared with those consuming 45% CHO, yet there was no difference in weight loss between the two groups.

Grey and Kipnis studied 10 obese patients who were fed hypocaloric (1500 kcal/d) liquid-formula diets containing either 72% or 0% CHO for 4 weeks before switching to the other diet. A significant reduction in basal plasma insulin levels was noted when subjects ingested the hypocaloric formula devoid of CHO. Refeeding the hypocaloric, high CHO formula resulted in a marked increase in the basal plasma insulin. However, patients lost 0.75 to 2.0 kg/week irrespective of caloric distribution."

thanks
Coach Hale
www.maxcondition.com

[johnnyironboard]

Show me one orca fat person that they need a crane to get out of the house that binges on steak. They all binge on stuff made with flour,sugar, and starch.

[xdestron]

Ever notice that diabetics are fat? They are insulin deficient.

[johnnyironboard]

Ever notice that diabetics are fat? They are insulin deficient.

Type II diabetes is pretty much a disease of the last 50 years- that imo is caused by flour and sugar in the "modern" diet.

[RU4A69]

Type 1 Diabetics can't gain weight: no insulin. Smoking gun.

Calories in ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT = calories out


Just sayin'

Ever notice that diabetics are fat? They are insulin deficient.

I think you got it backwards bruh. Type 2 = hyperinsulinemia.

[BlueFenix13S]

[kinglac]

http://thetaoofchow.com/articles/glut4.htm

Probably one of the first things you think about when you first hear the word ?diabetes? is insulin. Well...it shouldn?t be. Insulin has pretty much nothing to do with ?type II Diabetes?. As a matter of fact... the reason a person has type II Diabetes has so little to do with insulin it should not even be called diabetes. The only reason it was called Diabetes was because one of the side effects of the disease is an elevated blood sugar...the same as Type I Diabetes. In ?Type I? the pancreas does not produce enough insulin. In ?Type II? the pancreas actually tries to over compensate the high blood sugar and produces too much insulin. The problem lies in the inability of insulin to deliver.

[RU4A69]

[url] The problem lies in the inability of insulin to deliver.

Oh OK I got ya. Diabetes is caused by inability of insulin to lower blood sugar...........and diabetes has nothing to do with insulin.

Thanks for clearing that up bro.

[Phosphate bond]

It is not the insulin itself that causes obesity.

It is a mishandling of insulin secretion that leads to progressively more and more negative partitioning and disregulation of appetite to energy expediture.

What causes the mishandling of insulin secretion? I personally think energy processing and energy systems are one of the causes.

What causes this? Probably a combination of poor food quality (ie, mineral content and other factors) and lower than needed activity levels (this of course affects the level of cardiovascular fitness and development)

[Rigit23]

This thread can only go downhill.

Subbed

[Spottydog]

Show me one orca fat person that they need a crane to get out of the house that binges on steak. They all binge on stuff made with flour,sugar, and starch.

BINGE. Keyword.

Ever notice that diabetics are fat? They are insulin deficient.

THen explain why my diabetic friend is skinny as f***.

You guys cannot be serious. Overeating too large of portions and insufficient activity to offset it over time cause obesity. And in probably 0.25% of cases, it's something else, usually a thyroid problem. Usually the person is just a fat f*** who eats too much and sits on their fat ass all day. People ate white bread and honey (not SPLENDA) in their tea 200 years ago, but they ate one or two slices and not 8 slices with bbq wings and 3 beers every nite.

End.

[Phosphate bond]

However, patients lost 0.75 to 2.0 kg/week irrespective of caloric distribution."

The only thing I would add here is that for all practical purposes nobody wants to count calories.

So whatever diet or combination of foods lets them do this comfortably would probably work best for long term goals.

This is why I can't fault the keto people who say their appetite to energy expenditure is more regulated by the keto diet. (although I think enhancing cardiovascular condition (for anyone relatively sedentary) and thus improving ability to exchange co2/o2 in the resting state may work wonders for those that want to eat CO2 producing carbs and not worry about "appetite disregulation")

[Rigit23]

Type 1 Diabetics can't gain weight: no insulin. Smoking gun.

Calories in ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT = calories out


Just sayin'



I think you got it backwards bruh. Type 2 = hyperinsulinemia.

In before massive assrape by Aaron

[Phosphate bond]

Calories in ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT = calories out


Just sayin'

Well with appetite disregulation someone is definitely eating more than they need. (Otherwise they wouldn't be getting fat)

[kel_varnsen]

Ever notice that diabetics are fat? They are insulin deficient.

no, not really.

[RU4A69]

THen explain why my diabetic friend is skinny as f***.

What type? Juvenile onset diabetes makes it all but impossible to gain weight.

Adult onset diabetes does not automatically = being fat. BUT, give it time, let your friend keep producing more and more insulin as his cells keep losing sensitivity. A good percentage of type 2's end up making a whale look slender.

BTW white bread was originally a luxury food eaten mostly by the wealthy. Eventually the processing procedure became perfected, and we're to the point where its cheaper than whole grain.

[-Aaron-]

In before massive assrape by Aaron

I agree and disagree with RU4.

While calories in vs calories out applies to weight loss and weight gain, my research is based on adequate nutritional aspects (protein, efa's, vitamins, fiber) in ones diet. Once those macronutrients are met, any calorie can be filled as per ones goals. Of course, this DOES NOT apply to diabetics, who of course have special needs in their diet.

I will debate this with anyone, even you RU4.

[Phosphate bond]

One thing insulin does (among many things) is activate the sodium/potassium pump. This pump is ATP driven.

So when the energy state of the body is unfavorable the use of the ATP drive sodium/potassium pump is less efficient.

That is just looking at one small factor. Of course, in reality there is a lot more than this going on (That is an understatement).

Personally I think improving exercise capacity (if one needs to) and eating quality mineral rich proteins, carbs and/or fats should help correct any sort of this "unfavorable energy processing" condition I am alluding to. (Barring any sort of medical problem of course)

[-Aaron-]

Personally I think improving exercise capacity (if one needs to) and eating quality mineral rich proteins, carbs and/or fats should help correct any sort of this "unfavorable energy processing" condition I am alluding to. (Barring any sort of medical problem of course)

I agree in terms of health, but in terms of body composition, I disagree.

[noise]

Look at MSG, GMO, horrible quality ingredients, and excessive amounts of soda with acid (you need a balanced PH).

[Phosphate bond]

I agree in terms of health, but in terms of body composition, I disagree.

Well if someone is really sedentary any time they exercise and improve the state of their heart/lungs/muscles I think body composition would improve by default. Otherwise how is fat going to be reduced?

I think mineral rich foods of any sort is just good insurance. It seems highly trained athletes can get away with proportionally more empty calories.

[-Aaron-]

Well if someone is really sedentary any time they exercise and improve the state of their heart/lungs/muscles I think body composition would improve by default. Otherwise how is fat going to be reduced?

I think mineral rich foods of any sort is just good insurance. It seems highly trained athletes can get away with proportionally more empty calories.

Yep, well said.

As a matter of fact, for the sederatary obese adult trying to become thin, I always recommend nutrient enriched foods as a way of "breaking their unhealthy" cycle they're accustomed to.

[Phosphate bond]

This is a good thread so I just wanted to add this post to it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...51&postcount=7

[RU4A69]

This is a good thread so I just wanted to add this post to it.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpo...51&postcount=7

Can you explain "respiratory quotient?"

Also, why WOULDN'T decreased insulin and subsequent rise in glucagon enhance fat loss?

[Phosphate bond]

Can you explain "respiratory quotient?"

Carbon dioxide produced by the oxidation of fuels (via the electron transport chain and krebs cycle)

For example Calorie for calorie fat oxidation produces ~70% of the CO2 that glucose oxidation produces. (The only time oxidation of glucose does not produce CO2 is when substrate level phosphorylation is the pathway for ATP production from glucose<----This happens when oxygen supply and/or delivery is insufficient for the situation occuring)

P.S. Why is CO2 production important in the scheme of energy management by the body? Whenever CO2 production gets too high the body will activate enzymes (like acetyl COA carboxylase) to reduce the production of it. As acetyl COA carboxylase becomes more active fat oxidation lessens and lipogenesis progressively increases. At the same time there is a progressive switch to substrate level phosphorylation. In a nutshell when this happens the body wants to use glucose more than it wants to use fat. (<----RU4A69, I think you normally call this situation a "sugar addiction")

[Phosphate bond]

Also, why WOULDN'T decreased insulin and subsequent rise in glucagon enhance fat loss?

I think insulin secretion plays a role in things but I don't think it is the single most important player. (It is definitely a modulating factor though).

As a matter of fact, Insulin secretion lowers plasma K+ levels acutely which may or may not have acute effects on acid/base and acetyl COA carboxylase. That being said if mineral rich foods are used (for carb sources) this shouldn't really matter too much anyway.