Squats v. Front Squats

[Kiknskreem]

If one were to just do squats and nothing else, then sure, back squats are better becuase they involve more musculature. But if one were to do the correct auxillary exercises AND focusing on front squats i would argue that you would have overall more development.

More overall development in what... quad and upper back strength? Have you found these to be commonly occuring problems in athletes?

I would consider front squats to be a part of 'correct auxiallar exercises'. I don't see a reason they would be focused on.

Im not saying never do backsquats and only to front squats, each have their own place in a program, which i think can widely vary on the given goals/sport of the athlete. Are we talking about football, then yea a lowbar squat has more appeal, or are we talking basketball where you just have to have explosive quad reaction? Are we talking soccer or rugby?

Soccer, rugby, and baseball players all have to run and jump, and some even tackle and mosh bodies.... it is totally untrue that a baseball player for instance needs only "explosive quad reaction". All the aforementioned reasons in favor of the low bar back squat still apply.

While I agree that the concrete statement "back squats are better" is too strongly stated, I think there are many compelling arguments in favor of the back squat being an overall more important lift, and that to call BC02's statement "some of the most retarded **** on here" is well.... retarded.

[locoboyzbetz]

who taught u how to front squat. I guess I front squat to develop the clean part of the the clean and jerk. You always start with your knees over the bar.


Its pretty much. bar over toes, knees over bar, shoulders over knees.

I guess I dont really know since Ive only learned from tommy kono and his students.

However before the panties get in a bunch I understand the danger of knees over the toes and how it puts stress on the knees. ITs commonly known that olympic lifitng is hell on knees.

I can also see why bodybuilders would want to use front squats to focus on the quads. I feel that maybe hack squats might help better to focus on the quads.


Right on guys good thread! Oh im not bashing anyone so dont jump up and down in front of the comp!

[IronAbrams]

Once again for dramatic effect...

However before the panties get in a bunch I understand the danger of knees over the toes and how it puts stress on the knees. ITs commonly known that olympic lifitng is hell on knees.

[locoboyzbetz]

wow dramatic.

[locoboyzbetz]

Tommy Kono established world records in four body weight classes: lightweight (148 pounds), middleweight (165), light-heavyweight (181), and middle-heavyweight (198). Only two years after beginning Olympic lifting, he made the highest total of any lightweight lifter in the United States. Within four years of this first contest, he won the Gold Medal at the 1952 Olympic games in Helsinki, Finland. He was world champion every year from 1953 through 1959, which included a second Gold Medal at the 1956 Olympics in Melbourne, Australia. He established 26 world records and seven Olympic records. As if that wasn’t enough, he also won the "Mr. World" physique title and was three times crowned "Mr. Universe." After retirement from lifting, he became the national and Olympic coach for Mexico (1966 – 1968) and for West Germany (1969 – 1972), and United States Olympic weightlifting coach in 1976.

cav grunt you must be a crazy lifter! my hats off to you!

[IronAbrams]

Ok... I never mentioned anything about Tommy Kono. Congratulations on that one.

I'm questioning your general assumption that "knees over toes" during the squat is somehow inherently dangerous to the knee despite a complete lack of scientific evidence supporting such a view. It's just another piece of parroted advice, just like "protein destroys your kidneys".

The rate of knee injury among Olympic weightlifters is rather low.

[Kiknskreem]

Ok... I never mentioned anything about Tommy Kono. Congratulations on that one.

About half the time I have no idea wtf that guy is talking about.

[locoboyzbetz]

and IM telling you thats how we were taught and i explained which lift it was for and not for bodybuilding.

as for kiknscream I really respect your posts and knowledge but wtf wow , get that front squat up first!

[Kiknskreem]

as for kiknscream I really respect your posts and knowledge but wtf wow , get that front squat up first!

I'm close to front squatting double bodyweight... wtf are you talking about?

I also back squat as much as you though I think you outweight me by about 50lbs.

[thedestro]

Why does your sig neglect to show your squat numbers anyway, Kiknskreem?

[UtahRocks]

No.

You shouldnt be so emphatic on subjects you have no knowledge about. In front squats the torso is much more vertical than in powerlifting-style back squats, the ass doesnt stick out that much, and the knees indeed will get in front of the toes.

[UtahRocks]

One disadvantage of doing exclusively front squats is that your hams will end up looking underdevloped compared to the quads. Not a pretty sight.

[mybody001]

regular ass to grass for over all leg growth, front squats definitely hit the quads alot more especially with a closer stance. i like doing these to better my cleans.

[Lion Heart]

One disadvantage of doing exclusively front squats is that your hams will end up looking underdevloped compared to the quads. Not a pretty sight.

Not following you on this one.

Want developed hams, romanian deads, leg curls, and glute ham raises will take care of them.

[UtahRocks]

Not following you on this one.

Want developed hams, romanian deads, leg curls, and glute ham raises will take care of them.

Sure. Or you could do back squats (as opposed to doing only front squats for legs).

[brad71983]

Sure. Or you could do back squats (as opposed to doing only front squats for legs).

"If i was only going to do one" arguements arent really worth discussing as we know that really is never the case.

[sword_]

I tend to alternate between squats and front squats.

I do a lot less on front squats than back squats. The front squats forces me to recruit my quads more, and I believe it would help anyone that wants to correct their back squat form. It is a killer on wrists so I have a tendency to overlap my arms across my shoulders and let it contact my collar bone.

Interesting discussion going on here about the application of both squat forms into sports. Really I believe in most sports except olympic lifting the back squat is the preferred choice.

[locoboyzbetz]

You shouldnt be so emphatic on subjects you have no knowledge about. In front squats the torso is much more vertical than in powerlifting-style back squats, the ass doesnt stick out that much, and the knees indeed will get in front of the toes.

i guess I shouldnt argue with bodybuilders.

Olympic lifters are way different. thanks for posting a great pic.


As for kiknscream I cant believe how much you post on this site. Ive decided to get away from this computer. hey man enjoy posting!

Oh yah and If I squat to 90 I def hit 2x bodyweight. lol

and yes olympic lifting is hard on the knees. Its commonly known that most olympic lifters suffer knee problems throughout their career.


Just gonna deactivate this account and get out of the cyber world. Lame

[Kiknskreem]

Oh yah and If I squat to 90 I def hit 2x bodyweight. lol

So you have a 375 back-squat but can front squat 440 to parallel... whatever you say, boss.

Just gonna deactivate this account and get out of the cyber world. Lame

Good riddance. Don't re-register.

[Lion Heart]

So back squats are what are going to grow someones hams.

Alrighty then

[Kiknskreem]

So back squats are what are going to grow someones hams.

Alrighty then

Yes, a low bar back squat is a highly hamstring and hip dependent movement.

[ThickAsABrick]

Yes, a low bar back squat is a highly hamstring and hip dependent movement.

most BBers don't squat that way

knee break + high bar, FTW

[UtahRocks]

most BBers don't squat that way

Or olympic lifters for that matter. Here's a great vid of Francis Tournefier illustrating that kind of squat:

http://megavideo.com/?v=UTD0S38C

[Kiknskreem]

most BBers don't squat that way

Oh, certainly. And for a BB'er with an established training history trying to work their quads more, ain't nothing wrong with front or olympic squats.

But considering that 90% of the people in a gym at any given time are novices, I think they should do low bar squats as it is an overall more balanced lift. It distributes the load of the squat more evenly across the joints and muscles, and does a particularly good job at strenghtening the posterior chain, a strong posterior chain being invaluable for injury prevention. It is also superior in terms of overall strength, which I think is more important for a rank novice than choosing a squat based on its hitting the quads a bit more.

[UtahRocks]

low bar squats as it is an overall more balanced lift. It distributes the load of the squat more evenly across the joints and muscles, and does a particularly good job at strenghtening the posterior chain, a strong posterior chain being invaluable for injury prevention. It is also superior in terms of overall strength, which I think is more important for a rank novice than choosing a squat based on its hitting the quads a bit more.

After focusing exclusively on front squats for a long time, I completely agree with the above.

[seriouslifter]

This should come in handy:

http://stronglifts.com/front-squats-vs-back-squats/

thats how you hold front squats i thought that is for clean and press. I thought you just hold your arms crossed like a preztel and squat down for fronts. Not actually hold bar like that

[ThickAsABrick]

It is also superior in terms of overall strength, which I think is more important for a rank novice than choosing a squat based on its hitting the quads a bit more.

If your goal is to do squats primarily to develop the quads, then "overall strength" isn't as much of a concern. What I mean is I could squat a lot more if I changed my form to be low bar more hip and back driven, but the high bar/knee break has done a lot for my quads.
I know you are referring to beginners, but there's something to be said for practicing and improving upon the form you will ultimately want to be using, especially when you don't need to shelve BB goals completely for strength (although sure sometimes it's more skewed towards one than the other-esp for beginners) at any time.

My 2 cents.

[Kiknskreem]

I know you are referring to beginners, but there's something to be said for practicing and improving upon the form you will ultimately want to be using, especially when you don't need to shelve BB goals completely for strength (although sure sometimes it's more skewed towards one than the other-esp for beginners) at any time.

My 2 cents.

I see where you are coming from.

However, I wouldn't equat what I am doing with completely shelving BB'ing goals.

People who learn the high bar squat first often encounter difficulty learning the low bar squat later (which one may want to perform for a number of reasons.... a knee injury, simple variety, strength cycle, hamstring develpment focus). When one learns the squat with hip drive and a more horizontal back, the transition to high bar and a vertical back is far easier than the other way around. Having a good conceptual understanding of hip drive is also significant for many other basic lifts, even in a BB'ing context.

I think if I was training a BB'er I would probably have them start on low bar squats and introduce the high bar squat (or perhaps front squats) and other more BB'ing specific work towards the end of the initial novice period, when workout to workout progress starts to falter. This intitial phase sometimes lasts several weeks, but more typically its duration is several months.