to all you know-it-alls who want to train w/o a cert.

[Keltron]

Yeah yeah, you've been working out for years. You're experienced and you know everything there is about working out because your older brother has been reading Muscle and Fitness for years and you watched him working out as you were growing up. You yourself are in top physical condition so that means you can get anyone to that level.

Most people that think they know enough to train people have no clue about neuromuscular efficiency and misalignment of the body. You're gonna have people squat and not even notice that their knees are moving slightly inward. As you try to progress them by adding more weight, their glutes will get weaker while their inner thighs will get tighter and tighter. When you have someone do rows, you won't know notice that their traps and biceps are doing all the work. Their rhomboids will never develop and when you have them do heavy military press, their rhomboids will not activate and pull their shoulders back in the proper position which will put too much stress on their anterior delts while their teres minor and external rotators of the humerus stretch until they rips loose like a frayed rubber band. This is unless the front delts and/or bicep brachii doesn't strain first.

This might take a little time to happen under normal circumstances but the fact that you'll be having them do front delt raises and upright rows right after military presses but only having them do some half assed reverse flyes for their rear delts on shoulder day will surely speed up the process.

Do you still think you know what you're doing? By all means, go for it. Go ahead and screw someones body up for the rest of their life. The insurance you thought you'd never need will take care of everything.

[getnfit4me]

On the other hand, and I'm asking this in all seriousness, not trying to be a smart ass, do you think you can learn enough through a pt cert program to actually train people, without extensive gym experience yourself?

I'm asking because I'm going to pursue certification at the request of my trainer, who needs more help in his business. But I'm not confident that I have enough experience myself to actually train others. I know that's why one studies and gets certified, but I'm just not sure that book knowledge translates into practical knowledge. Thoughts?

[Keltron]

On the other hand, and I'm asking this in all seriousness, not trying to be a smart ass, do you think you can learn enough through a pt cert program to actually train people, without extensive gym experience yourself?

I'm asking because I'm going to pursue certification at the request of my trainer, who needs more help in his business. But I'm not confident that I have enough experience myself to actually train others. I know that's why one studies and gets certified, but I'm just not sure that book knowledge translates into practical knowledge. Thoughts?

You freaking smart ass, how dare you ask such a thing!?!? lol I'm kidding. That's an excellent point! On the flip side, one can't just get a cert and think that they are automatically the leading authority on health and fitness. You need knowledge that comes from a good foundation of schooling and experience in it's application with a wide variety of people. I think you'll do great.

[getnfit4me]

Thanks. I'm a little nervous about it but I guess you can't get experience until you get in the trenches and start. I just feel sorry for my first client

[Keltron]

Thanks. I'm a little nervous about it but I guess you can't get experience until you get in the trenches and start. I just feel sorry for my first client

To be quite honest, I think my first few clients got shafted. But you've got to start somewhere. Don't feel bad. Either way, they are better off with you than by themselves.

[FreddyKrueger]

Look at it this way.

Don't let your clients do what you never did. In other words you better practice and know how to do everything correctly.

Proper posture, overused, underused muscles, joint alignment are all issues many gym rats don't even think about. You have to know whats tight and what because of that tightness is loose and needs to be strenghtened.
Personally, if I did not go through the CPT classes I know that I wont be able to train people correctly. I can help them with muscle growth, but they would still be jacked up as much and if not more than when they started.

Both are necessary, but just because you do ONE doesn't mean that the other is easy....

[MVP]

There are plenty of people out there without a cert, that make far a better trainer than one who is already certified

[D1-FS-19]

There are plenty of people out there without a cert, that make far a better trainer than one who is already certified

Any trainer who is even remotely responsible, will take the time to get certified.

[asto_86]

Any trainer who is even remotely responsible, will take the time to get certified.

+1!

[Kiknskreem]

Yea, but the guy with the ACE cert who knows not to go below parallel or let the knees go over the toes is A-okay!!

Being a certified trainer does not mean jack ****.

[jando]

Yea, but the guy with the ACE cert who knows not to go below parallel or let the knees go over the toes is A-okay!!

Being a certified trainer does not mean jack ****.

i'd be willing to put my money on an ACE certified trainer than a gym rat anyday. At the very least the ACE certified guy has demonstrated a very basic understanding of biomechanics and training special needs clients

[Kiknskreem]

i'd be willing to put my money on an ACE certified trainer than a gym rat anyday. At the very least the ACE certified guy has demonstrated a very basic understanding of biomechanics and training special needs clients

Random personal trainer vs random gym rat is not really a suitable set of choices.

I would assume neither to have the requitiste skills and experience to teach basic novice training, particularly as it related to free weights.

[D1-FS-19]

Yea, but the guy with the ACE cert who knows not to go below parallel or let the knees go over the toes is A-okay!!

Being a certified trainer does not mean jack ****.

I agree with you to a certain point that being certified doesn't mean crap, but that just goes to show you that someone who is not certified means even less. Most of the trainers I work with are either athletes, competitive powerlifters and/or bodybuilders, or CSCS certified. Even the three girls we have on our staff are either figure competitors or a black belt in some kind of martial art.

I don't believe everything I read, and that includes pretty much all Personal Training Texts. For example, NSCA seems obsessed with a narrow stance squat with the toes pointed straight forward. I advocate a wider stance and the toes pointed slightly outward. This allows for a more favorable range of motion in the knee joint as well as greater activation of the glutes and hamstrings.

One last point, any assmunch can train their friend who is a little out of shape but relatively healthy. Takes a real trainer to train people with cerebral palsy, pregnant women, people coming off ACL surgury, women coming off breast augmentation surgery, people with herniated discs, etc.... Get my drift????? Not to mention taking into account age, gender, and the infinite amount of prescription meds they may be taking. You have to be able to take each person's unique situation and help that person meet their goals.

If you still insist on training without a certification, the least you can do is become CPR/AED and First Aid certified. You owe it to your clients.

[Arte_Suave]

On the other hand, and I'm asking this in all seriousness, not trying to be a smart ass, do you think you can learn enough through a pt cert program to actually train people, without extensive gym experience yourself?

I'm asking because I'm going to pursue certification at the request of my trainer, who needs more help in his business. But I'm not confident that I have enough experience myself to actually train others. I know that's why one studies and gets certified, but I'm just not sure that book knowledge translates into practical knowledge. Thoughts?

What an excellent point. I'm kinda on the same boat as you. Only I'm ****ting my pants, thinking of how I can get as much experience as possible. Good luck to you.

[carl.c]

Kiknskreem: If a cert is junk then why do all of the trainers you quote have a cert namly NSCA cscs or a Phd in the field? Could it be that a good cert and education is the best way to get started.

[Jack_the_Repper]

Kiknskreem: are you certified? and if so which cert do you have?

[Jack_the_Repper]

Yeah yeah, you've been working out for years. You're experienced and you know everything there is about working out because your older brother has been reading Muscle and Fitness for years and you watched him working out as you were growing up. You yourself are in top physical condition so that means you can get anyone to that level.

Most people that think they know enough to train people have no clue about neuromuscular efficiency and misalignment of the body. You're gonna have people squat and not even notice that their knees are moving slightly inward. As you try to progress them by adding more weight, their glutes will get weaker while their inner thighs will get tighter and tighter. When you have someone do rows, you won't know notice that their traps and biceps are doing all the work. Their rhomboids will never develop and when you have them do heavy military press, their rhomboids will not activate and pull their shoulders back in the proper position which will put too much stress on their anterior delts while their teres minor and external rotators of the humerus stretch until they rips loose like a frayed rubber band. This is unless the front delts and/or bicep brachii doesn't strain first.

This might take a little time to happen under normal circumstances but the fact that you'll be having them do front delt raises and upright rows right after military presses but only having them do some half assed reverse flyes for their rear delts on shoulder day will surely speed up the process.

Do you still think you know what you're doing? By all means, go for it. Go ahead and screw someones body up for the rest of their life. The insurance you thought you'd never need will take care of everything.

Well said Keltron, my gym (not naming it) just hired like six new trainers. I think two had a certifiaction, hell one guy worked at a grocery store as a cashier before this job... i'm sure he's gonna do well. The other day I saw one of the guys who just started had a 65 year old out of shape lady doing walking lunges with dumbells. It made me want to quit and move to another gym because we are going to lose all credibility.

[123bj]

I agree with you to a certain point that being certified doesn't mean crap, but that just goes to show you that someone who is not certified means even less. Most of the trainers I work with are either athletes, competitive powerlifters and/or bodybuilders, or CSCS certified. Even the three girls we have on our staff are either figure competitors or a black belt in some kind of martial art.

I don't believe everything I read, and that includes pretty much all Personal Training Texts. For example, NSCA seems obsessed with a narrow stance squat with the toes pointed straight forward. I advocate a wider stance and the toes pointed slightly outward. This allows for a more favorable range of motion in the knee joint as well as greater activation of the glutes and hamstrings.

One last point, any assmunch can train their friend who is a little out of shape but relatively healthy. Takes a real trainer to train people with cerebral palsy, pregnant women, people coming off ACL surgury, women coming off breast augmentation surgery, people with herniated discs, etc.... Get my drift????? Not to mention taking into account age, gender, and the infinite amount of prescription meds they may be taking. You have to be able to take each person's unique situation and help that person meet their goals.

If you still insist on training without a certification, the least you can do is become CPR/AED and First Aid certified. You owe it to your clients.

your right!
MAJORITY (certified or not) of the commercial industries trainers can not distinguish between these special cases and a healthy individual.
MAJORITY of the commercial industries trainers prescribe "cookie cutter" programs to groups of people because they are trying to achieve similar goals (pathetic), when each individuals program should be prescribed according to, needs, goals, abilities, limitations, preferences,etc (individualized)....certified or not, most trainers can not recognize this, yet they call themselves "fitness professionals" because they have a cert...... certs mean jack **** IMO

PROPER education and experience are key, certifications are not!

Im directing my rant solely towards training and not legal issues

[HRK (herb)]

I've had co-workers who were certified trainers and I wouldn't let them train my dog. They used clients as if they were guniea(sp) pigs to try a new thing they thought up.

As for trainers having CPR/AED training - it is the same thing. You will never know how they respond until someone is laying on the floor either bleeding from a bad place or not breathing. Most people will freeze - that is a fact!

Having or not having a degree, certification or any other piece of paper means jack sh*t if you can't combine book knowledge and training experience with common sense.

Herb
let the bashing begin!!

[MVP]

I've had co-workers who were certified trainers and I wouldn't let them train my dog. They used clients as if they were guniea(sp) pigs to try a new thing they thought up.

As for trainers having CPR/AED training - it is the same thing. You will never know how they respond until someone is laying on the floor either bleeding from a bad place or not breathing. Most people will freeze - that is a fact!

Having or not having a degree, certification or any other piece of paper means jack sh*t if you can't combine book knowledge and training experience with common sense.

Herb
let the bashing begin!!

Ouch..the truth hurts

[RusSuco]

well here is my take on the situation, the problem with personal training at leats in north america is that anyone can do it and it hurts the integrity of the proffesion, people honestly think that anyone can do it and thats what a majority of people have said to me as well from talking to them abuot pt's, and for me personally i will never work with a person that does not have a education or certification, these guys who think that having a cert is junk are completly wrong cause your integrity as a trainer goes hand in hand with training and if you dont knwo what your doing and you end up injurying someone caus eyou know proper body allignment and biomechanics then your word of mouth will not be good...thumbs up for certs

[Kiknskreem]

Get my drift?????

The drift I get is that you seem to think being certified confers some sort of meaningful status upon you. While it may be a good place to start, being certified in and of itself says nothing to the quality of the coaching being given.

Someone being some sort of certified trainer means nothing to me. Absolutely nothing. (At least in terms of training knowledge).

Kiknskreem: If a cert is junk then why do all of the trainers you quote have a cert namly NSCA cscs or a Phd in the field? Could it be that a good cert and education is the best way to get started.

Oh, certifications ad degrees might be a necessity, but they themselves say nothing about the quality of the coaching.

Kiknskreem: are you certified? and if so which cert do you have?

I am not certified, but I don't have clients. I am a kines major and will probably go for a CSCS.

[carl.c]

A strange and ignorant answer for one who has show extreme knowledge in this profession. I would like to know what profession that requires certification where the mere holding of the cert guarantees anything.
I am suppressed that you don’t want all people who claim to be personal trainers to have a good certification, considering you are pursuing a collage degree in the subject.
In my opinion all trainers who fail to have certification in this profession only drag the rest of us down and degrade all attempts to add profesalisim to are field.

[Kiknskreem]

I am suppressed that you don?t want all people who claim to be personal trainers to have a good certification, considering you are pursuing a collage degree in the subject.

I didn't say I would have a problem with some sort of meaningful certification process, just that one does not currently exist.

In my opinion all trainers who fail to have certification in this profession only drag the rest of us down and degrade all attempts to add profesalisim to are field.

Results > Certification.

There is no shortage of absolutely terrible trainers.

[BSNathlete29]

A strange and ignorant answer for one who has show extreme knowledge in this profession. I would like to know what profession that requires certification where the mere holding of the cert guarantees anything.
I am suppressed that you don?t want all people who claim to be personal trainers to have a good certification, considering you are pursuing a collage degree in the subject.
In my opinion all trainers who fail to have certification in this profession only drag the rest of us down and degrade all attempts to add profesalisim to are field.

I agree, a regular gym rat sure has knowledge about what he or she is doing but in all reality they are bringing the trainers that are certified down. but the trainers who don't have certs may be set up for a law suit because they don't have a proper education or cert in the field, and could end up hurting one of their clients. I guess its just my opinion for all its worth but being certified is like being a certified police officer or firefighter....you gotta know what the f*ck your doing otherwise you will end up getting killed. I'd rather be certified as a trainer and do the right things then not be certified and do everything half ass & think I'm doing the right things and halfass I mean by not being certified. Then again its just my opinion.

[carl.c]

So we are of like minds on the topic, did'nt pick that up from you above posts.

[Vadim Beliaev]

To me experience in the field means a lot more than most certs.
There are a lot of subtle things that you will never learn at any course.

But the most important thing i would look for in a trainer is being able to apply own knowledge to him/herself.
Current shape doesnt matter that much, what matters is what he/she was able to achieve in the past using his/her own knowledge.

[Danny213]

Any trainer who is even remotely responsible, will take the time to get certified.

You'd be suprised how wrong you are by making such a statement.

Some of the best trainers/nutritionists in the world have zero certification.

Experience comes before any book you read of lecture you listen to.

[D1-FS-19]

You'd be suprised how wrong you are by making such a statement.

Some of the best trainers/nutritionists in the world have zero certification.

Experience comes before any book you read of lecture you listen to.

Name me one! Every respected trainer for the most part has CSCS after their name or some sort of degree in exercise science, kinesiology, etc...

Other than Louie Simmons, I can think of one who is not certified. Joe DeFranco, Mark Vestergan, Nancy Clark, Bill Starr, Bill Pearl, etc...

[xshadowx4]

I don't mean to hate on either side, but I am in agreement with getnfit4me. I could potentially get the certification in one semester with the credits I already have... I am honestly thinking about doing it, too.

However, that is a major flip to the certification process because I am only 18 (i got some college in as a high schooler) and obviously have limited knowledge. I am not saying I am completely incoherent, but I know there are plenty of things for me to learn still...