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  1. #1
    Fitness Coach BlakeSelby's Avatar
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    My take on aromatase inhibitors (i.e. Arimatest/Novadex XT)

    I am in biochemistry at michigan state university and from my research, it seems that aromatase inhibitors would only work for a person supplementing with testosterone which would cause a higher than normal T/E (testosterone to estrogen) ratio because at normal levels, the body is built so that there is never "excess" testosterone to convert into estrogen. Not that aromatization does not occur in the body, but that the level of conversion is likely to keep your hormone levels in check. Now imagine you throw this off by blocking some of that testosterone from being converted. Say you take Arimatest and 50% of the testosterone that would have been converted (not total test levels) doesnt get aromatized. Dont you think the body, always wanting to be in equalibrium, would bring it's own natural test. levels down to once again be in a balanced ratio with the estrogen? If this is the case, then you have really screwed yourself over and done a disservice. Please post if you disagree, but I work at GNC and I always try to steer people away from those unless they are on a cycle of synthetic testosterone.
    BS Kinesiology (Exercise Science)
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    wrong section
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  3. #3
    Registered User mprior's Avatar
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    The aromatase inhibitors are specifically marketed and directed towards individuals using prohormones (test boosters) and individuals taking anabolic steroids. The product Novadex XT contains *both* aromatase inhibitors and prohormones which increase your free testsosterone levels (PM me if you cant find the journal article supporting that and I'll find it for you).

    As for plain aromatase inhibitors for individuals who are not using prohormones or anabolic steriods, its unlikely they would have a significant effect. For example, one recently published medical study examined the effect of aromatase inhibitors on treating gynecomastia and it was ineffective.

    While your conclusion certainly makes theoretical sense-- its impossible to say one way or another without performing an experiment whether aromatase inhibitors in themselves alter the pituitary-gonadal hormone equilibrium.

    I would refrain from telling customers that aromatase inhibitors could "mess up" your natural hormone balance since thats an unsubstantiated claim. Instead I would tell them that very little (if any) clinical trials have been performed to determine the validity of the product as a whole. Unless the individual has taken prohormones or anabolic steriods, the product should be considered useless in my opinion-- but not necessarily harmful.

    Novadex XT (made by Gaspari) has several published clinical trials out. It has been solidly demonstrated to increase free testosterone however the anti-armomatase activity was not complete-- there was partial conversion to estrogen in the studies I read. Also, the participants were healthy men in their late 20s and 30s.

    Its nice to see you taking your biochemistry studies into the real world though. I wish there were more students in my biochemistry courses who reasoned their way through things like you, it makes for fun conversation.
    Last edited by mprior; 08-16-2008 at 11:00 PM.
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  4. #4
    zyzz !MIZRg2G7HA Zyzz's Avatar
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    AI's are overated imo

    SERMs ftw.
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    Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post
    AI's are overated imo

    SERMs ftw.
    lmao...Good luck with that then.
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    B.S. Kinesiology CSCS Vipersg123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post
    AI's are overated imo

    SERMs ftw.
    a SERM is useless if your T/E ratios are normal. They are only useful if your body is in a hypogonadal state. AI's however work completely differently and can work with normal T/E ratios.
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  7. #7
    Fitness Coach BlakeSelby's Avatar
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    Thats why I posted. I like that take on it. What is in them though that you would say increases natural test? Tribulus? I'm not sure what to think of things like Novadex that are raising your natural test levels, because it seems like without LH or HCG you wouldnt be able to do that. How could an herb, not anabolic enough to be considered illegal increase your natural test enough to make the AI useful? I do agree with you on the pro-hormone/steroid theory for the AI's though, But wouldnt it be cheaper for them just to use like a clomid or something of the sort? (sorry I'm not too well versed in steroids b/c I'm a lifetime drug free, but I'm going into endocrinology so I do know some things)


    Originally Posted by mprior View Post
    The aromatase inhibitors are specifically marketed and directed towards individuals using prohormones (test boosters) and individuals taking anabolic steroids. The product Novadex XT contains *both* aromatase inhibitors and prohormones which increase your free testsosterone levels (PM me if you cant find the journal article supporting that and I'll find it for you).

    As for plain aromatase inhibitors for individuals who are not using prohormones or anabolic steriods, its unlikely they would have a significant effect. For example, one recently published medical study examined the effect of aromatase inhibitors on treating gynecomastia and it was ineffective.

    While your conclusion certainly makes theoretical sense-- its impossible to say one way or another without performing an experiment whether aromatase inhibitors in themselves alter the pituitary-gonadal hormone equilibrium.

    I would refrain from telling customers that aromatase inhibitors could "mess up" your natural hormone balance since thats an unsubstantiated claim. Instead I would tell them that very little (if any) clinical trials have been performed to determine the validity of the product as a whole. Unless the individual has taken prohormones or anabolic steriods, the product should be considered useless in my opinion-- but not necessarily harmful.

    Novadex XT (made by Gaspari) has several published clinical trials out. It has been solidly demonstrated to increase free testosterone however the anti-armomatase activity was not complete-- there was partial conversion to estrogen in the studies I read. Also, the participants were healthy men in their late 20s and 30s.

    Its nice to see you taking your biochemistry studies into the real world though. I wish there were more students in my biochemistry courses who reasoned their way through things like you, it makes for fun conversation.
    BS Kinesiology (Exercise Science)
    Michigan State University 2012
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  8. #8
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    Which pct should I cycle after celltech? Please answer soon I dont want gyno
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    B.S. Kinesiology CSCS Vipersg123's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BlakeSelby View Post
    Thats why I posted. I like that take on it. What is in them though that you would say increases natural test? Tribulus? I'm not sure what to think of things like Novadex that are raising your natural test levels, because it seems like without LH or HCG you wouldnt be able to do that. How could an herb, not anabolic enough to be considered illegal increase your natural test enough to make the AI useful? I do agree with you on the pro-hormone/steroid theory for the AI's though, But wouldnt it be cheaper for them just to use like a clomid or something of the sort? (sorry I'm not too well versed in steroids b/c I'm a lifetime drug free, but I'm going into endocrinology so I do know some things)
    The AI is what is increasing the test. The negative feedback loop. There's a bit of info on aromatase inhibitors and male T/E ratios post treatment. All the studies I have read, testosterone is increased. Tribulus doesn't boost testosterone, its bunk. And something anabolic would never be considered illegal unless it was banned for some reason. For instance they sell steroids on bb.com that are currently legal. The laws don't work that if something is this anabolic then its considered illegal. And a SERM is really only useful when your body is in a low testosterone state... if you have a normal t/e ration a SERM is useless. SERMs aren't test boosters if you have normal levels... not to mention they aren't anabolic.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by 636 HunteR View Post
    Which pct should I cycle after celltech? Please answer soon I dont want gyno
    You need nolva and clomid NOAW!
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    An AI works through the negative feedback loop of the endocrine system. Your body see's that you have low estrogen, which in turn, creates more testosterone to be converted by the aromatase enzyme into estrogen. BUt when the aromatase enzyme is blocked, very little of the test is converted.

    That's how I understand it.
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    aromatase inhibitors

    Originally Posted by BlakeSelby View Post
    I am in biochemistry at michigan state university and from my research, it seems that aromatase inhibitors would only work for a person supplementing with testosterone which would cause a higher than normal T/E (testosterone to estrogen) ratio because at normal levels, the body is built so that there is never "excess" testosterone to convert into estrogen. Not that aromatization does not occur in the body, but that the level of conversion is likely to keep your hormone levels in check. Now imagine you throw this off by blocking some of that testosterone from being converted. Say you take Arimatest and 50% of the testosterone that would have been converted (not total test levels) doesnt get aromatized. Dont you think the body, always wanting to be in equalibrium, would bring it's own natural test. levels down to once again be in a balanced ratio with the estrogen? If this is the case, then you have really screwed yourself over and done a disservice. Please post if you disagree, but I work at GNC and I always try to steer people away from those unless they are on a cycle of synthetic testosterone.
    I realize this is a very old thread but I felt like I would share my experiences that I have noticed the past month that I have been testing AIs.
    To respond to “your take” on aromatase inhibitors there has been research that’s been published on this topic. Google “effect of chronic administration of an aromatase inhibitor to adult male rats on pituitary and testicular function and fertility” Published in 1999 but still valid;

    I am also a biochemistry major at UCLA. Mind you, I’m an undergrad so my knowledge of biochemistry is very limited (taken 3 biochem classes thus far) but I stay up on research and have taken quite a few bio classes/chem. Your reasoning would seem to make sense though, that your body will attempt to reestablish equilibrium and from this particular study it looks like that is the case. However from the data it seems to take at least a year of chronic use of these AIs to cause feedback adjustments in hormone production. One other problem is that it has causes infertility in rats “impairments to spermatogenesis is believed to be the result of fluid accumulation in the seminiferous tubules induced by a reduction in fluid resorption by the efferent ducts.” (236, K J TURNER and Others, Aromatase inhibitor and male rats; Journal of Endocrinology)

    I enjoy experimenting, so I’ve decided to take D-Aspartic Acid in conjunction with aromatase inhibitors. D-Aspartic Acid has been shown to increase testosterone in a number of studies by acting as a neurotransmitter and releasing FSH and LH in addition a few other actions in the testies. Another study to check out on pubmed “D-Aspartic acid and nitric oxide as regulators of androgen production in boar testis.”
    I have noticed a difference while taking these supplements. Before these two, I was taking whey protein before and after workouts and low amounts of creatine each day.

    I have noticed myself feeling more aggressive and have gained weight (went from 195lbs to almost 210lbs, I’m 6’3”) which is probably a combination water/muscle weight, I have not noticed any emerging fat gains (I still have a slight six-pack, that always goes first when I gain fatty weight). I have a lot more energy throughout the day as well and almost a higher sense of well being (I would attribute this to endorphins however my knowledge is limited). To conclude I probably won’t take the AIs and D-AA chronically (for more than 6-months). I plan to try cycling on and off initially (3-4 month intervals) and observe the effects. I would definitely recommend doing research before taking any kind of supplements out there. Know the risk vs. benefits of any drug or substance you take.
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    Originally Posted by Zyzz View Post
    AI's are overated imo

    SERMs ftw.
    Didn't realize the god posted in this old thread that got bumped.

    Good thing he changed his opinion over the years, what a dumb post by him lol.
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    A SERM will do fck all if you get gyno. You need an AI. Not to mention is has a plethora of other benefits health wise to use while "on."
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    What AI would you sugest?
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    Originally Posted by BlakeSelby View Post
    I am in biochemistry at michigan state university and from my research, it seems that aromatase inhibitors would only work for a person supplementing with testosterone which would cause a higher than normal T/E (testosterone to estrogen) ratio because at normal levels, the body is built so that there is never "excess" testosterone to convert into estrogen. Not that aromatization does not occur in the body, but that the level of conversion is likely to keep your hormone levels in check. Now imagine you throw this off by blocking some of that testosterone from being converted. Say you take Arimatest and 50% of the testosterone that would have been converted (not total test levels) doesnt get aromatized. Dont you think the body, always wanting to be in equalibrium, would bring it's own natural test. levels down to once again be in a balanced ratio with the estrogen? If this is the case, then you have really screwed yourself over and done a disservice. Please post if you disagree, but I work at GNC and I always try to steer people away from those unless they are on a cycle of synthetic testosterone.
    You can't buy AI at GNC Mr.Biochemist. Go back to school.
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    strong bump, nearly choked when saw zyzz post, until noticed the date of the thread
    I don't even, and never will
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    I have never posted before but very interested in this subject. I am 49yrs old, didn't workout for about 25yrs, started last September doing push ups and dumbell curls in the morning. In October, moved the workout into my garage where I have olympic wieghts that haven't been used in many years. When I started, I weighed 210 at 5"9", and benched 215lbs. About three weeks ago I wieghed in at 203 and benched 265lbs. I recently had my 2nd blood work done and my numbers have moved slightly but the numbers I want to talk about is I think, key word here is think, when everyone talks about T-E ratios and what helps, age is a huge factor. My T levels are at 365 which actually shocked me because of my strength gains. My Estrodial was at 30 which means my T-E ratio is 12!! My cholesterol has always been really good but this time my LDL was 115 which is a little high, my TSH was a little high, and my DHEA was low. I personally think what is going on is back in March I took, very reluctantly and now I wish I hadn't, Torque by geared up but only for 3 1/2 weeks. My nipples got sensitive but that was the only real effect I had other than at the end, Pamela Anderson could have standing in front of me naked and I wouldn't care. A buddy of mine told me about clomid so I got a hold of some and took it. I only took 25mg/day for two weeks (that's all I had because I split it with my workout buddy) but holy cow did that stuff work!! I would wake up in the middle of the night and Mr. happy would be staring at me. It truly was like I was in my mid 20's again. I drink about 2-3 beers a day with buddies after work and did that while taking the torque. I think my liver isn't processing the estrogen and cholsterol propertly right now due to the Torque and my continued beer consumption. My plan is to stop drinking for a month, do a small dosage of clomid and arimidex to see if I can get my T-E ratios back in the 20-30 range. Any feed back would be appreciated. Also, I do believe the liver plays a very important role in my TSH, cholestrol, and E levels because of its either ability or inability to excrete properly.
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