Ack! Just got my blood test results...

[Minotaur]

Its usually based on TSH. My dosage started at about 80mcg about 10 years ago, and now I am up to about 200 mcg. My weight has stayed roughly the same during this time.

P.S. Has anyone(*) switched from t4 only to t4/t3? And if so, did you notice a difference?

* = I mean people with actual thyroid disorders, not bodybuilders taking it just to try and lose fat.

I know... but it's supposed to be based on bodyweight. Most doctors rely too heavily on TSH as the measurement, when they should be taking into account Free T4 and Free T3 and how the patient feels.

Btw, I am now taking Levoxyl and Cytomel (T4 and T3). It's helping.

[andrenym00]

I've been taking synthroid for a long time and was on .250 mcg until I started exercising and eating healthy which made me drop weight and my doctor reduced dose to .225 because I went a little hyper. Just taking synthroid or thyroid meds alone won't help, you have to exercise, eat right and keep weight down. My total testosterone is also very very low (179) and I think it has to do with my thyroid.

[andrenym00]

I know... but it's supposed to be based on bodyweight. Most doctors rely too heavily on TSH as the measurement, when they should be taking into account Free T4 and Free T3 and how the patient feels.

Btw, I am now taking Levoxyl and Cytomel (T4 and T3). It's helping.

When you say the cytomel is helping, do you mean on how you feel or your blood work looks better?

[Minotaur]

When you say the cytomel is helping, do you mean on how you feel or your blood work looks better?

Both!

[Tallgntlmn]

I go back to see this doc on Thursday. He is kind of a drug company shill so I bet he's going to want to go the drug route to fix things.

From what I've gathered here, I should stay away from statins for now. I should find out why Testosterone is low. I also gather that so far until we can pinpoint the cause, I want to stay away from HRT. Then the cause can be treated and not just the symptoms, correct? I will do my part and cut the carbs. I will do my part and keep hitting the gym.

Given those assumptions, would the following be correct to discuss with the doc? Check LH and E2 to find out if that is the cause of low T? Do some sort of check of the thyroid? What about pituitary, does it play a role here? I am interested in how I can phrase the points that have been brought up here as to finding out the cause of the low T numbers.

[skywalker45]

here is what I have had the best results from
no processed sugars
no processed white flours
I eat oats
very limited amounts of potato's
lots of broccolli
asparagus
green beens
leafy greens
various other beens
tons of lean meat: beef, pork, chicken, tuna
some fatty meats, (rib-eye's)
as for bread I only eat Natures Own whole grain (no hfcs and relatively low carb also)
cereal bar preworkout
PWO:muscle milk
various nuts
cabbage
fruits = berries, some apples, I eat at least 1 pinapple per week.
also I drink some milk

I have tried keto and it works great for weight loss, but for me it doesn't provide me with enough fuel to get me through my workouts, so I am doing fairly low carb, even with that I do a minimum of 150 carbs a day, almost all of the complex variety. I am very sensitive to processed carbs, but seem to talerate whole grains and other whole food carb sources pretty well.

I am down 50 pounds from my top weight, plus I have probably 20 pounds more lean mass than I had then.

It has taken me a long time to come up with a plan that works for me but now that I have I'm sticking to it

I believe this diet is really solid. I eat very similar to this and it works but might not work for all. I guess you have to experiment some. Main thing I always think is "whole foods" even if it is a potato, but not everyone can do them.

[chodan9]

I believe this diet is really solid. I eat very similar to this and it works but might not work for all. I guess you have to experiment some. Main thing I always think is "whole foods" even if it is a potato, but not everyone can do them.

thats more of a sampling that a complete list, there are so many foods out there that you can get a good amount of variety I think, and still eat clean.
Especially if you cook. I dont see how some people manage without cooking.

[skywalker45]

I go back to see this doc on Thursday. He is kind of a drug company shill so I bet he's going to want to go the drug route to fix things.

From what I've gathered here, I should stay away from statins for now. I should find out why Testosterone is low. I also gather that so far until we can pinpoint the cause, I want to stay away from HRT. Then the cause can be treated and not just the symptoms, correct? I will do my part and cut the carbs. I will do my part and keep hitting the gym.

Given those assumptions, would the following be correct to discuss with the doc? Check LH and E2 to find out if that is the cause of low T? Do some sort of check of the thyroid? What about pituitary, does it play a role here? I am interested in how I can phrase the points that have been brought up here as to finding out the cause of the low T numbers.

Yes the main thing is to find out WHY the Test is low and don't accept "well you're just getting older" for an answer. There HAS to be a reason and those could be numerous but if E2 is high Test will be low because E2 looks like test to the brain. I would check LH, E2, etc. and other tests I mentioned earlier. Pituitary plays a huge role here. It produces LH and FSH as well as TSH. It's the master gland and if it's whacked then everything is off. I would be straight up with your doc and say something like--

"Well I'm not happy at all with my numbers and my testosterone is very low and I believe that's deleterious to my health. I'd like you to run these tests based on what I've learned about low testosterone." Then show him a printout of the tests.

What can he say? No? My doc told me that she would at least run them, but that if they came back whacked she might have to bring someone else on board to treat them. So be it, if necessary. Your doc might not want to prescribe an AI to a man if your E2 is through the ceiling, but that doesn't mean someone else won't. If your E2 is high, getting it under control might bring your T up. Let us know what happens. Also, try to get your doc to do the tests before your appointment. That's what I did. That way you can talk about the stuff while it's fresh in front of you at your appt. Don't worry if you can't but it's worth a shot.

[skywalker45]

thats more of a sampling that a complete list, there are so many foods out there that you can get a good amount of variety I think, and still eat clean.
Especially if you cook. I dont see how some people manage without cooking.

Yeah, I agree, you have to cook. Damn I cook all the time, but I prepare ahead too so I'm not always in the kitchen.

[Tallgntlmn]

I had the FSH, LH and E2 test done. I just got the results and am not sure what to make of it. They screwed up my age. The report has me as 17 years old, I wish. If only I knew then what I know now. LOL!

Anyhow, here's what I have:
LH: 3 mIU/mL; 1.5-9.3 range
FSH: 3.5 mIU/mL; 1.4-18.1 range
Estradiol: 19 pg/mL; 0-53 range

All those values are in range according to the report. Given that fact, I am guessing that these are not the cause of my low T. With that said, I am also guessing I should probably find another doc to go to, maybe an endo. What do y'all think?

On another note, I had my consult with the doc over the original numbers and he said that I am pretty much ok. He'd like to test again in 8 weeks to find out what has happened with them. I am cool with that as long as it also includes the FSH, LH, and E2 tests. Maybe I'll ask for T4 too. Any thoughts guys? The frustrating thing is he is what I would call old school when it comes to testing these things. He is of the school of thought that testosterone is a factor in heart disease and heart attacks. He said that I am ok with it being low because it reduces that risk. All I could do was look at him and wonder how it's ok to have some of the symptoms of low T. I tried to argue but saw I would get nowhere with that. So I may have to find another doc based on that too.

[Forced]

What I can’t understand is you stuffing your face with trash and washing it down with beer and then complaining about your weight and general health.

Helloooooo!!!!! You’ve received much advice on this site and it seems it’s being used as something to sooth your conscience.

You are not serious about gaining control of your life. Chomping down into a greasy blood clotting burger and washing that sh!t down with alcohol seems to be your only focus point.

You are no more than a servant to it. It has enslaved you.

Make up your mind what it is you want. Stop being so damn half hearted about your quest. Commit to it fully or give it up as a bad job.

[Tallgntlmn]

What I can?t understand is you stuffing your face with trash and washing it down with beer and then complaining about your weight and general health.

Make up your mind what it is you want. Stop being so damn half hearted about your quest. Commit to it fully or give it up as a bad job.

Forced, you do have some good points, thanks man. I fell off the wagon for a few weeks but I seem to be back. Thanks for the extra motivation. Seriously man, I intend no sarcasm in that statement.

I struggle with diet. It is BY FAR the hardest part for me. But given what my diet was, there was nothing to do but improve. Two sausage or chicken biscuits are no longer my breakfast. No more do I eat fries with every meal. I don't have buffalo nuggets when I am watching a game. I don't wolf down a bag of chips while watching the nightly news. I drink water now, not just Coca-Cola. Just a few examples. The best way to put it is my diet was that of a typical 6 year old.

Serving size is probably my biggest nemesis. They say 22 almonds is a serving. I don't even feel like I've eaten anything when I eat 22 almonds. It just makes me want more. Two ounces of meat is a serving, but I feel nothing from it but more hunger. I guess I have to ask, how do you get a satisfied or full feeling from eating those kind of serving sizes? Is a burger always a "greasy burger" or does it matter what it's made of? I either have bison or I grind my own beef. I use ny strip and eye of round or chuck and tenderloin. Are those burgers as bad as Bubba Burgers or the patties in the case at the grocery store? Also, I eat them plain, just seasoning, no bun.

My beer consumption is probably a bit exaggerated. I admit I drink some at the pool. That really is the only place I do. I still have some in the fridge from over a month ago. I have seriously curtailed that habit in the last month. I felt like it was getting out of hand so now I carry water. Yes, my buddies make fun but they understand.

I don't want to debate that aspect. That is another thread entirely. At this point, I am more curious about what these latest numbers might mean.

[Minotaur]

Anyhow, here's what I have:
LH: 3 mIU/mL; 1.5-9.3 range
FSH: 3.5 mIU/mL; 1.4-18.1 range
Estradiol: 19 pg/mL; 0-53 range

All those values are in range according to the report. Given that fact, I am guessing that these are not the cause of my low T.

Estradiol is fine, but the LH is the reason for your low T. LH signals the testes to produce T. And yours is too low. FSH signals them to make the little soldiers.

Given that your T is low, imo it's not a feedback loop issue. I'd get workups for hypothalamus and/or pituitary insufficiency. These can be done with blood tests and MRIs.

Find a good endo or urologist. Either can do the necessary workups.

[partsRheavy]

I drink water now, not just Coca-Cola.

I either have bison or I grind my own beef. I use ny strip and eye of round or chuck and tenderloin. Are those burgers as bad as Bubba Burgers or the patties in the case at the grocery store? Also, I eat them plain, just seasoning, no bun.

Looks like improvements. Good on cutting back the beer/soda/fries. The bison is a good source of protein. Good on grinding your own round/chuck/NY strip.

At this point, it would be a good idea to cut out ALL soda and everything that contains HFCS. (sugar also). Do you like the taste of unsweet green tea? This is a good beverage to have if you are tired of water.

[Note: here in the South we say "unsweet" instead of "unsweetened" to describe our tea LOL].

Are you eating oatmeal? Also, what about baked chicken, fish, olive oil?

Do you have a "health food" or "organic" market near you like Whole Foods, Wild Oats or the like? (I think there are some in Atlanta). A little expensive, but most of the useful things are in the bulk section which is cheaper.

Hopefully your diet changes will show up in your next blood work as improvements to the lipids (cholesterol), and perhaps the hormone panel also.

Also, although it's off-topic of the main bloodwork discussion here, I assume they did a panel with liver values, CBC, glucose, etc. along with the cholesterol and hormones? Sometimes it's good to post the entire set of results so that the knowledgeable folks like Minotaur can get a view of the whole picture.

Best wishes -

[Forced]

Forced, you do have some good points, thanks man. I fell off the wagon for a few weeks but I seem to be back. Thanks for the extra motivation. Seriously man, I intend no sarcasm in that statement.

I struggle with diet. It is BY FAR the hardest part for me. But given what my diet was, there was nothing to do but improve. Two sausage or chicken biscuits are no longer my breakfast. No more do I eat fries with every meal. I don't have buffalo nuggets when I am watching a game. I don't wolf down a bag of chips while watching the nightly news. I drink water now, not just Coca-Cola. Just a few examples. The best way to put it is my diet was that of a typical 6 year old.

Serving size is probably my biggest nemesis. They say 22 almonds is a serving. I don't even feel like I've eaten anything when I eat 22 almonds. It just makes me want more. Two ounces of meat is a serving, but I feel nothing from it but more hunger. I guess I have to ask, how do you get a satisfied or full feeling from eating those kind of serving sizes? Is a burger always a "greasy burger" or does it matter what it's made of? I either have bison or I grind my own beef. I use ny strip and eye of round or chuck and tenderloin. Are those burgers as bad as Bubba Burgers or the patties in the case at the grocery store? Also, I eat them plain, just seasoning, no bun.

My beer consumption is probably a bit exaggerated. I admit I drink some at the pool. That really is the only place I do. I still have some in the fridge from over a month ago. I have seriously curtailed that habit in the last month. I felt like it was getting out of hand so now I carry water. Yes, my buddies make fun but they understand.

I don't want to debate that aspect. That is another thread entirely. At this point, I am more curious about what these latest numbers might mean.

As a man thinks, so he is.

You are no ones second best and should not look at yourself as such. Stop thinking about failure and envisage yourself weighing in at 250lbs. Be positive. Be determined. Do not allow yourself to be moved. Not by anyone.

If your friends laugh at you and tease you about what your trying to do, they aint your friends. Friends support each other.

Get rid of them.

Iron sharpens iron. Wood blunts iron.

Surround yourself with people of iron.

Good luck!!

[skywalker45]

I had the FSH, LH and E2 test done. I just got the results and am not sure what to make of it. They screwed up my age. The report has me as 17 years old, I wish. If only I knew then what I know now. LOL!

Anyhow, here's what I have:
LH: 3 mIU/mL; 1.5-9.3 range
FSH: 3.5 mIU/mL; 1.4-18.1 range
Estradiol: 19 pg/mL; 0-53 range

All those values are in range according to the report. Given that fact, I am guessing that these are not the cause of my low T. With that said, I am also guessing I should probably find another doc to go to, maybe an endo. What do y'all think?

On another note, I had my consult with the doc over the original numbers and he said that I am pretty much ok. He'd like to test again in 8 weeks to find out what has happened with them. I am cool with that as long as it also includes the FSH, LH, and E2 tests. Maybe I'll ask for T4 too. Any thoughts guys? The frustrating thing is he is what I would call old school when it comes to testing these things. He is of the school of thought that testosterone is a factor in heart disease and heart attacks. He said that I am ok with it being low because it reduces that risk. All I could do was look at him and wonder how it's ok to have some of the symptoms of low T. I tried to argue but saw I would get nowhere with that. So I may have to find another doc based on that too.

I'm going with Minotaur on this one. All numbers look good but LH is too low. Should really be around 6-8 range. This is certainly causing low T levels. What time did you have the blood drawn? Was it in the morning? This can make a difference. Sometimes with LH you need a few draws so you can build an average but this reading is too low. Take Minotaur's advice and see a good endo, uro or another doctor who specializes in treating male hormone problems and pituitary et al.

And just for the record based on what you said your doc told you about testosterone and heart disease etc. That's ALL the reason you need to find another doc. He clearly doesn't keep up on research and IMO shouldn't even be practicing because he could put lives at risk. Low T levels in men are KNOWN to cause and/or accelerate cardiovascular disease, not the other way around.

[Tallgntlmn]

What time did you have the blood drawn? Was it in the morning? This can make a difference. Sometimes with LH you need a few draws so you can build an average but this reading is too low. Take Minotaur's advice and see a good endo, uro or another doctor who specializes in treating male hormone problems and pituitary et al.

This sample was taken at 1pm or so. I had, let's see my 32oz of coffee, an apple and my peach, bannana, orange smoothie that day before the test if it even matters. I plan on taking Minotaur's advice. In fact one of my good friends has been talking to me about her endo to see for this.

And just for the record based on what you said your doc told you about testosterone and heart disease etc. That's ALL the reason you need to find another doc. He clearly doesn't keep up on research and IMO shouldn't even be practicing because he could put lives at risk. Low T levels in men are KNOWN to cause and/or accelerate cardiovascular disease, not the other way around.

Oh I agree. When he went into that speech, I knew instantly he was not the guy for this task. He's great for going to get a script for a sinus infection or a cold. This is far more important, IMHO. The fact he would even go there highlights that he does not keep up on this type of research. I also got the feeling when talking to him that he thought I was in there to get HRT. As I think I've stated in this thread earlier, I don't want that if I can at all avoid it.