***Thread for survivalists, preparedness, G.O.O.D., SHTF, TEOTWAWKI***

[Nainoa]

Internal rechargeable battery.

You shouldn't have to fire up a generator to charge something anyway. I'm sure you could charge it off of, say, your deep cycle 12 V (golf cart, marine, whatever) battery.

And of course how long the batteries last depends on how much you use it. If you need comms, you need comms.

I'm no electrician type but I'm sure somebody who knew what they were doing (or researched it before hand) could recharge it off of panels. Power consumption/battery capacity isn't massive or anything, it's a hand held after all.

Ideally you have hand helds and a base setup, both. And a car setup too!

Right now I have none of the above.

The big problem with recharging comes in the difference between AC and DC... Because you either need an inverter or a converter to charge from one to the next and they are expensive and can break down. In an ideal world everything you have would run on DC and all of your charging capabilities would run on DC.

The problem with DC is that it seems that DC devices run out of charge faster.

BUT you can technically charge DC from a lot of sources (Including the alternator of a running car or truck) Many a time I've brought the truck out in the bush and needed to recharge the trolling batteries for the boat. It wears down the truck's alternator over time and is a waste of gas, but it will charge a full bank trolling battery at Idle in about 2.5 hours.

I think the real trick to save on resources would be to have some augment solar.

An average consumer grade solar panel is only going to get you something like 11-15 watts per hour in full sun... But say you get 10 of them, on a southern exposure set at an angle equal to your degree of lattitude, and daisy chain them to a 12V gel battery, then run a charging station off that battery, and you should in theory be able to charge anythying off of it... Or say run some LED string lights for a couple of hours each night in the work shop during the dark hours of the winter type of thing.

But to charge any standard battery, like a AA or D, or say to run a kitchen blender on 110, And you'd need an inverter, which is spendy.

I spent $25 for an inverter way back in the day... It was a lower power one, it couldn't even run a small Mr. Coffee Coffe maker without blowing a fuse.

For a really good one you'd have to spend a couple hundred.


Ironically I've found in my travels, (Reading Urinal Ads) that if you find a truck stop that is off the interstate, they tend to have better prices on Inverters than if you say went to Sears or WalMart.

[Farley1324]

But what is the cost of 10 solar panels plus the setup? And then they are prone to getting damaged, and only work in the sun.

Everything has limitations, and of course what you are preparing for matters. You are thinking TEOTWAWKI, end of days, book of eli, mad max scenario. Which is possible, but seems far less likely than the various "SHTF" scenarios, to me.

[Nainoa]

But what is the cost of 10 solar panels plus the setup? And then they are prone to getting damaged, and only work in the sun.

Everything has limitations, and of course what you are preparing for matters. You are thinking TEOTWAWKI, end of days, book of eli, mad max scenario. Which is possible, but seems far less likely than the various "SHTF" scenarios, to me.

I haven't priced them out in a while... But I saw a local ad in a tabloid last fall offering a 15 Watt unit on sale for $99.99.

They are meant to be able to take some damage, but say a big hail storm or a tree damaging them would ruin it... Also even the best Gel Battery is only really going to last about 5 years. (I've heard claims that high quality ones made today can last 10 years)
And without a main storage cell the whole point is moot anyway.


So the only way you have ANY long term communications is with a diesel genny... and then you'll only be talking to other people who also have the same communications equipment and a diesel genny.



In my mind it is inevitable that we are headed towards a "Reset Button" situation for our civilization... The only question is how long before that Reset button is pressed.

It might not even be in my life time... Maybe it's in my daughter's lifetime... But I'm every day working on building the skills and resources and the critical experience needed to improve me and my family's odds of being the fittest to survive... And then teaching my daughter those skills, so if it happens in her lifetime she'll also have "Improved Odds."

Our civilization is like a car driving down a desolate stretch of road, with no gas gauge... It is inevitable that it will run out of gas... We just don't know if that's next week or next century.

[Farley1324]

I haven't priced them out in a while... But I saw a local ad in a tabloid last fall offering a 15 Watt unit on sale for $99.99.

They are meant to be able to take some damage, but say a big hail storm or a tree damaging them would ruin it... Also even the best Gel Battery is only really going to last about 5 years. (I've heard claims that high quality ones made today can last 10 years)
And without a main storage cell the whole point is moot anyway.


So the only way you have ANY long term communications is with a diesel genny... and then you'll only be talking to other people who also have the same communications equipment and a diesel genny.



In my mind it is inevitable that we are headed towards a "Reset Button" situation for our civilization... The only question is how long before that Reset button is pressed.

It might not even be in my life time... Maybe it's in my daughter's lifetime... But I'm every day working on building the skills and resources and the critical experience needed to improve me and my family's odds of being the fittest to survive... And then teaching my daughter those skills, so if it happens in her lifetime she'll also have "Improved Odds."

Our civilization is like a car driving down a desolate stretch of road, with no gas gauge... It is inevitable that it will run out of gas... We just don't know if that's next week or next century.

I would wager that, if it happens, it won't be in either.

But it could be today. Not likely, but possible.

[Nainoa]

I would wager that, if it happens, it won't be in either.

But it could be today. Not likely, but possible.

It all depends on what you think the future of humanity is...

Are we headed towards "Star Trek" or are we headed towards an enlightened stone age.

The current system we have is unsustainable as our population goes up and our resources go down.

A Major Paradigm shift has to occur for either the "Star Trek" or the "New Stone Age"

I can't think of a single time in human history where a major paradigm shift happened in a civilization that didn't knock over that civilizations sand castle in order to pour the foundations for the next paradigm.

The closest argument I can think of is the Great Plagues of Europe.

Now for me... I'm in the minority... I don't believe that "Technology is the new magic" I believe the only "Magic" is a product of the human heart and our personal connections to each other. When we tease out the equations leading towards the "Star Trek" future, you have to have the "Magic" of unforseen and unprovable technology come into play in order for that paradigm shift to occur... Meanwhile all concrete factors point toward enlightened "Stone Age."

[RyouBakua]

quick note about solar panels


they always draw in the light

so despite having a breaker you will have a live wire somewhere (by the panels)

(which is why fire department training has stepped up a notch)

[surf junkie]

I haven't priced them out in a while... But I saw a local ad in a tabloid last fall offering a 15 Watt unit on sale for $99.99.

They are meant to be able to take some damage, but say a big hail storm or a tree damaging them would ruin it... Also even the best Gel Battery is only really going to last about 5 years. (I've heard claims that high quality ones made today can last 10 years)
And without a main storage cell the whole point is moot anyway.


So the only way you have ANY long term communications is with a diesel genny... and then you'll only be talking to other people who also have the same communications equipment and a diesel genny.



In my mind it is inevitable that we are headed towards a "Reset Button" situation for our civilization... The only question is how long before that Reset button is pressed.

It might not even be in my life time... Maybe it's in my daughter's lifetime... But I'm every day working on building the skills and resources and the critical experience needed to improve me and my family's odds of being the fittest to survive... And then teaching my daughter those skills, so if it happens in her lifetime she'll also have "Improved Odds."

Our civilization is like a car driving down a desolate stretch of road, with no gas gauge... It is inevitable that it will run out of gas... We just don't know if that's next week or next century.

Our house has 22 panels on the roof

We don't have a battery bank though, that is the expensive part.

Right now we sell most of our kWh back to the grid for $$$.

[surf junkie]

Little heavy to tote around. Have an old CB base station for the home.

My little FT-60r can pick up most UHF chatter (such as EMS and air traffic) within a 5-10km range, and I'm in range of a repeater, sometimes that is hooked in to "echo-link" and can hear people from all over the world. Last week I was listening to some people in Texas... Yes, that's right. On my little handheld transceiver, I was listening to radio chatter in Texas ... From Australia.



All I've really done to it is an aftermarket whippy antenna, and a vehicle antenna. Considering stringing an antenna up in a tree here to greatly increase range, but haven't gotten around to it. Next step is to purchase a FT-857 and in the future if budget permits, a VX-8DR.



Few weeks ago I went camping in a place where I didn't have a camping permit (national parks here are run by eco-nazis).

I tuned in to the park rangers frequency and if they got word that someone was camping in the bush without a permit, I'd have had a few hours to break camp and move on before they could get to me. Kinda handy

I've never transmitted on this thing, got it just to lurk the frequencies.

..

Best way to think of it, is like an oldschool, primitive version of open-to-air Skype. Anyone could be listening, and you don't have to pay anybody to talk or receive.

[Nainoa]

Our house has 22 panels on the roof

We don't have a battery bank though, that is the expensive part.

Right now we sell most of our kWh back to the grid for $$$.

Yeah you're wired into the main box of the house with commercial grade solar panels.

Unless someone has those already installed, you're not going to be able to get them during a SHTF situation.

However you can get consumer grade (Weak ass cheap ones) at box hardware stores all over the place. They are inferior in charge generation compared to the consumer grade wind fans... But the wind doesn't always blow etc...

The Consumer Grade fans and panels are basically there to charge up the batteries that run the 12V lights in campers and such and/or go through an inverter to run 110 powered appliances off the camper batteries.

[illriginalized]

Solar powered device charger.

For those interested: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...A/thewire06-20

[jafomofo]

Thought some of you might be interested in the contents of the bug out bag for the guy who owns esee knives/randalls adventure training:

After this last "bugout" class we noticed several of the participants carrying way, way more gear and weight than they should for 4 days. I just got all my gear cleaned, repacked and ready to go again. 22 pounds total with 2 quarts of water, 50 feet of rapel rope, carabiners, descender, prusiks, food, Big Agnes tent, micro stove with fuel cannister, 15 degree sleeping bag, PLB, GPS, maps, compass, first aid, extra socks anbd a few odds and ends like a RuckSak knife, small flashlight, etc. I can EASILY spend 5 comfortable days in the wilderness in this climate with this and nothing more.

[Hartski]

I need to get more for my bug out bag. Most of my preps are focused on bugging in.

[Nainoa]

I need to get more for my bug out bag. Most of my preps are focused on bugging in.

I think in order to intelligently design a bug out bag, you'll need to keep destination in mind.

I mean hypothetically... Are you going to your uncle's farm 2 miles away? Or are you trying to make your way up to my place hundreds of miles away... The BoB you pack for each would be different.

I mean if you're going to your uncles farm is your planned destination, you're probably going to have a quick bag with necessary items and then be tempted to pack a second rucksack with a lot more of your stocked up food to pack into his pantry... And if you get in trouble along the way you drop the rucksack.

If you're going a long distance, you would include enough food for the trip and leave the big stocks behind completely.

If you were bugging out to Burt Gummer's basement, you wouldn't bring a pile of ammo and guns.

[Hartski]

If you were bugging out to Burt Gummer's basement, you wouldn't bring a pile of ammo and guns.

Sure i would, because if Burt Gummer has tought us anything, it's that there's no such thing as having too much ammo.

[Nainoa]

I know right now a lot of the media focus is on what's going on in Boston and what's happening with Gun Control...

But very quietly across the news tickers has come the message "Chinese confirm first case of human to human transmission of the Bird Flu."


While it's not like we are 11 minutes away from 12 monkeys yet, I think it does officially put Bird Flu on the radar. Animal to Human has been possible before, but not human to human.

[surf junkie]

I know right now a lot of the media focus is on what's going on in Boston and what's happening with Gun Control...

But very quietly across the news tickers has come the message "Chinese confirm first case of human to human transmission of the Bird Flu."


While it's not like we are 11 minutes away from 12 monkeys yet, I think it does officially put Bird Flu on the radar. Animal to Human has been possible before, but not human to human.

Eh, I noticed it.

[surf junkie]

I think in order to intelligently design a bug out bag, you'll need to keep destination in mind.

I mean hypothetically... Are you going to your uncle's farm 2 miles away? Or are you trying to make your way up to my place hundreds of miles away... The BoB you pack for each would be different.

I mean if you're going to your uncles farm is your planned destination, you're probably going to have a quick bag with necessary items and then be tempted to pack a second rucksack with a lot more of your stocked up food to pack into his pantry... And if you get in trouble along the way you drop the rucksack.

If you're going a long distance, you would include enough food for the trip and leave the big stocks behind completely.

If you were bugging out to Burt Gummer's basement, you wouldn't bring a pile of ammo and guns.

^this.


A bug out bag is like a lifeboat without paddles, if you don't have a destination in mind.

With a destination, you can outfit the "lifeboat" to reach the destination with you and your loved ones intact.

[Nainoa]

Eh, I noticed it.

Bird Flu crossed with influenza has the potential to be another 1918 level outbreak...

Except in 1918 there wasn't any transcontinental airliners whisking people around the globe in under a day.

It's not that one human to human transmission means that there is another patient zero out there. What it means though is that it is proof that the Bird Flu Virus CAN cross with influenza.

Up to now it was only "Theoretically Possible."

If this is proof that H5N1 can cross with influenza, then it becomes an inevitability and the only variable is "Time" before it happens again.

[RyouBakua]

nice looking cabin

[Nainoa]

nice looking cabin

Nice...

You thinking about buying it?

In the second photo it looks like it might need some help with the footings. Which is doable yourself if you take your time and think it through.
(Helped my buddy's dad do something similar with 6 foot tall footings)

[RyouBakua]

Nice...

You thinking about buying it?

In the second photo it looks like it might need some help with the footings. Which is doable yourself if you take your time and think it through.
(Helped my buddy's dad do something similar with 6 foot tall footings)

nah. i might if it was on a flatter/greener piece of land. looks like a mudslide will push that thing down the mountain

[Nainoa]

nah. i might if it was on a flatter/greener piece of land. looks like a mudslide will push that thing down the mountain

My parents were just here visiting, and my Mom updated me on my 70 year old survivalist uncle.

He's been living as a survivalist in West Texas, but decided he wanted to finally retire... So he bought a 300 acre valley & slope piece of property in Oregon. I guess he's going to carve a little paradise for himself out there with a completely off the grid cabin and well. His kids hate him to the point where they are estranged. So he's "Considering" willing it to me when he dies.

[Kulvich]

The big problem with recharging comes in the difference between AC and DC... Because you either need an inverter or a converter to charge from one to the next and they are expensive and can break down. In an ideal world everything you have would run on DC and all of your charging capabilities would run on DC.

The problem with DC is that it seems that DC devices run out of charge faster.

BUT you can technically charge DC from a lot of sources (Including the alternator of a running car or truck) Many a time I've brought the truck out in the bush and needed to recharge the trolling batteries for the boat. It wears down the truck's alternator over time and is a waste of gas, but it will charge a full bank trolling battery at Idle in about 2.5 hours.

I think the real trick to save on resources would be to have some augment solar.

An average consumer grade solar panel is only going to get you something like 11-15 watts per hour in full sun... But say you get 10 of them, on a southern exposure set at an angle equal to your degree of lattitude, and daisy chain them to a 12V gel battery, then run a charging station off that battery, and you should in theory be able to charge anythying off of it... Or say run some LED string lights for a couple of hours each night in the work shop during the dark hours of the winter type of thing.

But to charge any standard battery, like a AA or D, or say to run a kitchen blender on 110, And you'd need an inverter, which is spendy.

I spent $25 for an inverter way back in the day... It was a lower power one, it couldn't even run a small Mr. Coffee Coffe maker without blowing a fuse.

For a really good one you'd have to spend a couple hundred.


Ironically I've found in my travels, (Reading Urinal Ads) that if you find a truck stop that is off the interstate, they tend to have better prices on Inverters than if you say went to Sears or WalMart.

I'm currently researching all of this now. I'm in the process of buying solar panels for an alternate energy source. I really don't want to rely on generators and gasoline as an alternative to the power company.

[RyouBakua]

I'm currently researching all of this now. I'm in the process of buying solar panels for an alternate energy source. I really don't want to rely on generators and gasoline as an alternative to the power company.

look into batteries too



lots of people in my area have PV panels and have dropped their electricity bills

however without batteries you cant really use it during a power outage

[Kulvich]

look into batteries too



lots of people in my area have PV panels and have dropped their electricity bills

however without batteries you cant really use it during a power outage

Definitely. How many do you recommend?

And what do you think of this kit for starting up: http://www.lowes.com/pd_223946-37277...g|1&facetInfo=

I was thinking of just getting panels, an inverter, and the battery for much cheaper...

[Nainoa]

Definitely. How many do you recommend?

And what do you think of this kit for starting up: http://www.lowes.com/pd_223946-37277...g|1&facetInfo=

I was thinking of just getting panels, an inverter, and the battery for much cheaper...

If you're serious about getting yourself off grid... Then I would look more for electrical contractors who specialize in Solar Panels, over say box store units.

Most of the stuff you can get in a box store is meant more for people who want to take their RV to primitive camp sites etc...

If you want to get your home off grid, then you'll want commerical grade solar panels installed by guys who know how to wire it in.

In fact, depending on where you live and who you get your power from... You could even call the power company and they will probably have someone they reccommend. (My country co-op does this) So then you can have them install a meter for the rare moments when you can "Sell power back into the grid"


When it comes to a generator... Gasoline generator is the "Camping and Short Term/emergency power outage generator" For long term use you want a Diesel generator.

Which (with a little chemistry, I'm not 110% up on) you can run on vegetable oil, when diesel runs out... So you could "In Theory" grow canola seed as a cover or rotation crop... Spend your down time in the winter pressing and filtering and use it as a fuel for the generator to charge batteries for basic electricity.

[Hartski]

I wasn't going to get seat covers for my truck, but I may have to make an exception...

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Auto-...3Bcat104558580

[Kulvich]

If you're serious about getting yourself off grid... Then I would look more for electrical contractors who specialize in Solar Panels, over say box store units.

Most of the stuff you can get in a box store is meant more for people who want to take their RV to primitive camp sites etc...

If you want to get your home off grid, then you'll want commerical grade solar panels installed by guys who know how to wire it in.

In fact, depending on where you live and who you get your power from... You could even call the power company and they will probably have someone they reccommend. (My country co-op does this) So then you can have them install a meter for the rare moments when you can "Sell power back into the grid"


When it comes to a generator... Gasoline generator is the "Camping and Short Term/emergency power outage generator" For long term use you want a Diesel generator.

Which (with a little chemistry, I'm not 110% up on) you can run on vegetable oil, when diesel runs out... So you could "In Theory" grow canola seed as a cover or rotation crop... Spend your down time in the winter pressing and filtering and use it as a fuel for the generator to charge batteries for basic electricity.

I'll check into contacting the power company. My basic problem would be cost, of course. I don't mind spending $2K on a home DIY kit where I can keep a few batteries charged for emergencies (like hurricanes), but I don't know if I can foot the whole bill for a full commercial installation. Maybe it's something I can save towards, because getting endless water is no problem here.

I'll take a look into the diesel generators too. Thanks for the advice. If you have any more, I'm all ears. I'm still learning this stuff---spent the whole day gardening!

[RyouBakua]

Definitely. How many do you recommend?

And what do you think of this kit for starting up: http://www.lowes.com/pd_223946-37277...g|1&facetInfo=

I was thinking of just getting panels, an inverter, and the battery for much cheaper...

nainoa touched upon most of these already


nice to know strippers prep too

[Nainoa]

I'll check into contacting the power company. My basic problem would be cost, of course. I don't mind spending $2K on a home DIY kit where I can keep a few batteries charged for emergencies (like hurricanes), but I don't know if I can foot the whole bill for a full commercial installation. Maybe it's something I can save towards, because getting endless water is no problem here.

I'll take a look into the diesel generators too. Thanks for the advice. If you have any more, I'm all ears. I'm still learning this stuff---spent the whole day gardening!

Keep in mind to that there are decent tax credits and/or deductions for doing something like this.

For Round numbers sake...

Say you make $30,000 this year... And you spend $10,000 on your commercial solar panel system... I believe what happens is that you claim it and your tax bracket is adjusted down to $20,000.


When it comes to cost savings... And it's been a while since I did the math, (Back when I was looking to go completely off grid on 40 acres up in the wilderness) But with the cost savings on the best and most expensive "Suntracker" system it would take 13 years and 8 month to pay for itself in direct savings... And has an average lifespan of 25 years... (Or at least that's the life of the Warranty)

So the up front cost, essentially buys you 12+ years of free power.