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  1. #1
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    For those who say Aspartame/Splenda can kick you out of ketosis

    I'm curious as to how this is possible. If you are not in ketosis, the normal operation of your body is to use carbs/glucose for energy. If you take in 0-20 or so carbs per day, how is a diet soda or splenda/aspartame with absolutely no carbs going to kick you out of ketosis, into a state of using carbs, which are non-existent in the body, for fuel?
    Last edited by SCDiesel23; 07-24-2008 at 06:00 PM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User ira_est_a_donum's Avatar
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    sweet things tend to raise insulin or spike it...this in turn could kick you out of ketosis...but i tend to think its not that big of a deal bc youll get back in pretty quick if you do get kicked out...and bc its no calories its not going to add weight or fat to you...and if you are diciplined you dont have to worry about the new desire for carbs/calories/food that is theorized to happen from eating artifical sweetners...

    so personally i try to keep them to a minimum, but when i want one i get one and dont worry about it... moderation is best... 1-2 a day at most and youll be fine... and maybe go sodaless on the weekends.... i personally would rather drink green tea or crystal light...
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  3. #3
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    Originally Posted by ira_est_a_donum View Post
    sweet things tend to raise insulin or spike it...this in turn could kick you out of ketosis...but i tend to think its not that big of a deal bc youll get back in pretty quick if you do get kicked out...and bc its no calories its not going to add weight or fat to you...and if you are diciplined you dont have to worry about the new desire for carbs/calories/food that is theorized to happen from eating artifical sweetners...

    so personally i try to keep them to a minimum, but when i want one i get one and dont worry about it... moderation is best... 1-2 a day at most and youll be fine... and maybe go sodaless on the weekends.... i personally would rather drink green tea or crystal light...
    In regards to raising insulin, if you have no carbs in your body, how will you be kicked out of ketosis.

    I guess my question is where is the glucose coming from to kick you out of ketosis during an insulin spike.
    Last edited by SCDiesel23; 07-24-2008 at 06:29 PM.
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  4. #4
    Protein Hacker mehdi84's Avatar
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    Yah, I'd like to know for sure as well. Personally, I know of no way to know whether or not Aspartame kicks me out of Keto or not. Also, if it is truely the case that it kicks you out of Keto... I'm going to have to throw out like 40% of my Keto food LOL.
    Because if it were easy, I wouldn't be interested.

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  5. #5
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    I probably go through a case or more of diet soda a week, and have never had a problem with it. YMMV, but I call BS on it causing a problem.

    Some people do seem to bloat or retain water, but as far as actually affecting results, I'm not buying it.
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  6. #6
    Protein Hacker mehdi84's Avatar
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    BTW, I'm eating sugar-free jello with whipped cream... soooo good, and <1g carbs.
    Because if it were easy, I wouldn't be interested.

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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by mehdi84 View Post
    BTW, I'm eating sugar-free jello with whipped cream... soooo good, and <1g carbs.
    I just had 2 tbsp of natty peanut butter and a casein/whey shake. I started a thread a while back about the debate over whey and ketosis. I'm far from an expert on this, I'm just trying to comprehend how it is possible to be kicked out of ketosis when there are no carbs to synthesize for energy.
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  8. #8
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    They have actualy done studies on the effect of apsartame on insulin in diabetics. The result. No insulin spike from aspartame. If one thinks about it if someone is diabetic, an insulin spike could be very dangerous, yet it is acceptable for diabetics to drink diet sodas. Just a thought.
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  9. #9
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    In regards to raising insulin, if you have no carbs in your body, how will you be kicked out of ketosis.

    I guess my question is where is the glucose coming from to kick you out of ketosis during an insulin spike.
    Originally Posted by mehdi84 View Post
    Yah, I'd like to know for sure as well. Personally, I know of no way to know whether or not Aspartame kicks me out of Keto or not. Also, if it is truely the case that it kicks you out of Keto... I'm going to have to throw out like 40% of my Keto food LOL.


    Because your body decides (with the insulin response to fake sugar) that it needs to use that for energy again and tries to switch a glucose operating system.....then in an hour or so you switch back.
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  10. #10
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    Because your body decides (with the insulin response to fake sugar) that it needs to use that for energy again and tries to switch a glucose operating system.....then in an hour or so you switch back.
    Are there any studies that show this response, or is it just based on anecdotal evidence with faulty ketostix?
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  11. #11
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    Are there any studies that show this response, or is it just based on anecdotal evidence with faulty ketostix?
    There is studies -- i don't have them or the time to refind them....


    but it also makes 100% logical sense. And Ketostix have nada to do with it/
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    There is studies -- i don't have them or the time to refind them....


    but it also makes 100% logical sense. And Ketostix have nada to do with it/
    I'm just curious as to how much of an insulin response it actually invokes. I could go eat a bunch of eggs and steak and invoke an insulin response.
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  13. #13
    Not banned afterall MarkVI's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    I'm just curious as to how much of an insulin response it actually invokes. I could go eat a bunch of eggs and steak and invoke an insulin response.
    That's a very very good point bro.....


    I think the response would be big enough to inform your body to switch to carbs
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    That's a very very good point bro.....


    I think the response would be big enough to inform your body to switch to carbs
    I guess so, I'm going to try and find some studies on it tomorrow. If anyone has some they can share, please post here.

    The good news is that if it does kick you out, it should only be momentary it seems.
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  15. #15
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    i drank 3 gallons of crystal light a day while doing keto and didnt have a problem
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    Originally Posted by MattyH7688 View Post
    i drank 3 gallons of crystal light a day while doing keto and didnt have a problem
    christ, kinda puts my one diet coke in perspective.

    Overall, did you like the results from keto?
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  17. #17
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    btw it might be 0 calories in splenda but it also says <1gm carbs in it.... dont know how it makes sense for FDA. Nevertheless, if u do go to their website ull find out that a cup of splenda has 24gms of carbs and 96 cals so that means splenda has carbs.

    Although the sticky in nutrition section says that sucralose(splenda) doesn't get used by the body and passes through the system without hurting. But then i dont understand how if it has 96cals(24carbs).
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    Originally Posted by prady View Post
    btw it might be 0 calories in splenda but it also says <1gm carbs in it.... dont know how it makes sense for FDA. Nevertheless, if u do go to their website ull find out that a cup of splenda has 24gms of carbs and 96 cals so that means splenda has carbs.

    Although the sticky in nutrition section says that sucralose(splenda) doesn't get used by the body and passes through the system without hurting. But then i dont understand how if it has 96cals(24carbs).
    Some splenda is pure sucralose, some is sucralose, dextrose, and maltodextrin
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    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    Some splenda is pure sucralose, some is sucralose, dextrose, and maltodextrin
    explain pls
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    Originally Posted by MattyH7688 View Post
    i drank 3 gallons of crystal light a day while doing keto and didnt have a problem
    Not surprising -- low BF can tolerate a lot of carbs and stay in -- at my most fat adapted I was downing 100gcarbs and still in.


    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    christ, kinda puts my one diet coke in perspective.

    Overall, did you like the results from keto?
    lol, don't worry about your coke bro.
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    Originally Posted by MarkVI View Post
    lol, don't worry about your coke bro.
    I'm not too worried about it, I consume a fair amount of artificial sweetners daily, I'm just trying to figure out the logic behind them kicking you out of ketosis.
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    Are we like Pavlov's dog's maybe????

    I have not searched for any studies yet..maybe tomorrow. But maybe the "sweet" taste that we generally associate with carbohydrates especially sugars is a signal for the body to increase insulin levels even before blood glucose levels rise. It seems very likely to me that our bodies could be "conditioned" this way. How much of an effect this might have would probably only be minimal. It is something that probably would also be diminished with time.
    I have also seen to claims that Aspartame can actually lead to an increase in cravings for carbohydrates. Because it can block production of serotonin which is in part responsible for controlling food cravings.
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    Just something I found in another forum.

    Lyle McDonald has addressed this issue a bit, suggesting its one of those ymmv things and can kick you out of ketosis.

    In his book "The Ketogenic Diet" (pg 116) he says the following:


    Quote:
    "Citric acid and aspartame
    In all likelihood, problems with diet soda relate to one of these two compounds, both of which are used as artificial sweeteners in diet products. Citric acid may inhibit ketosis and diet sodas containing citric acid or aspartame are not allowed for epileptic children on the ketogenic diet. However, there is some debate over this point. Possibly, citric acid might affect ketosis by affecting liver metabolism, primarily the Krebs cycle. Some individuals report that citric acid prevents them from entering ketosis but does not affect ketosis once it has been established. One study, examining very-low-calorie diets, found that the consumption of citric acid inhibited ketosis and increased appetite in many individuals. Ultimately, individuals will have to determine for themselves whether citric acid or aspartame has any effect on ketosis, appetite or fat loss on a ketogenic diet."
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    is " Aspartame" in cola?
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    Aspertame

    There is another study that says after years of intake of aspertame your body becomes adapted to thinking of "sweet taste" to not contain any useful calories, AND inturn when u do your carb up or eat that cake and donuts, I does not get used for fuel and gets stored as fat more readily. I wish they would have f%%(king told me that 13 years ago when I thought I'll switch to diet soda to cut my calories! Really I think we all know we should not be drinking any soda because of the adverse affects of it like, tooth decay, ulcers ( which I have and it kills me everyday) acid reflux ( also have and its like being stabbed when I try to eat) brain cancer from aspertame and the list goes on.BUT I could make a list like that for pretty much anything, cell phone - cancer, Saturated fat - heart attack, plastic water bottles - cancer, tobacco - cancer ect... Like i said in another post, some guys will smoke and die at 38, others will smoke and die in a car crash at 95! We dont know EVERYTHING about the body yet.
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    Originally Posted by BG41 View Post
    There is another study that says after years of intake of aspertame your body becomes adapted to thinking of "sweet taste" to not contain any useful calories, AND inturn when u do your carb up or eat that cake and donuts, I does not get used for fuel and gets stored as fat more readily.
    eek!!!
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    Originally Posted by BG41 View Post
    AND inturn when you do your carb up or eat that cake and donuts, I does not get used for fuel and gets stored as fat more readily.
    I think that a clean carb up consisting of sweet potatoes, oatmeal, and rice, is a completly different animal when compared to frosted cake and donuts. Especially when you have a single donught or piece of cake a year.
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    Originally Posted by scottjo View Post
    Lyle McDonald has addressed this issue a bit, suggesting its one of those ymmv things and can kick you out of ketosis.

    In his book "The Ketogenic Diet" (pg 116) he says the following:
    Quote:
    "Citric acid and aspartame
    In all likelihood, problems with diet soda relate to one of these two compounds, both of which are used as artificial sweeteners in diet products. Citric acid may inhibit ketosis and diet sodas containing citric acid or aspartame are not allowed for epileptic children on the ketogenic diet. However, there is some debate over this point. Possibly, citric acid might affect ketosis by affecting liver metabolism, primarily the Krebs cycle. Some individuals report that citric acid prevents them from entering ketosis but does not affect ketosis once it has been established. One study, examining very-low-calorie diets, found that the consumption of citric acid inhibited ketosis and increased appetite in many individuals. Ultimately, individuals will have to determine for themselves whether citric acid or aspartame has any effect on ketosis, appetite or fat loss on a ketogenic diet."
    I've heard this exact same thing about citric acid before as well. I would also have to imagine that the ketogenic diet for preventing epileptic seizures must be followed incredibly strictly with no room for error. Us who use keto to lose weight I would imagine have a bit more leeway in consuming products with these ingredients.


    Originally Posted by BG41 View Post
    There is another study that says after years of intake of aspertame your body becomes adapted to thinking of "sweet taste" to not contain any useful calories, AND inturn when u do your carb up or eat that cake and donuts, I does not get used for fuel and gets stored as fat more readily. I wish they would have f%%(king told me that 13 years ago when I thought I'll switch to diet soda to cut my calories! Really I think we all know we should not be drinking any soda because of the adverse affects of it like, tooth decay, ulcers ( which I have and it kills me everyday) acid reflux ( also have and its like being stabbed when I try to eat) brain cancer from aspertame and the list goes on.BUT I could make a list like that for pretty much anything, cell phone - cancer, Saturated fat - heart attack, plastic water bottles - cancer, tobacco - cancer ect... Like i said in another post, some guys will smoke and die at 38, others will smoke and die in a car crash at 95! We dont know EVERYTHING about the body yet.
    Damn, do you have a link to this study?

    Again, if anyone finds or comes across any studies, please post them up.
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    Originally Posted by SCDiesel23 View Post
    I'm curious as to how this is possible.
    For me, I don't think it is the sweetener itself that is the problem but more the type of food surrounding the sweetener. Sweetener tends to accompany higher carb foods. Even if those foods are "keto friendly". Typically when I have Splenda I am having some sweet, dessert type item.

    For instance, if I have a baked pumpkin bar with whipped cream on top, both sweetened with Splenda, I can't really blame the Splenda for being knocked out of ketosis if the 10 carbs in the whipped cream, cream cheese and pumpkin have put me over my daily limit.

    Not to mention Splenda has carbs and a lot of people don't count them. I know they are there but I detest measuring things so I don't count the carbs in Splenda. (I know!) Which is probably why I have better luck using Torani syrups to sweeten things; since it is liquid, there are no carbs.
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    Originally Posted by frogguruami View Post
    For me, I don't think it is the sweetener itself that is the problem but more the type of food surrounding the sweetener. Sweetener tends to accompany higher carb foods. Even if those foods are "keto friendly". Typically when I have Splenda I am having some sweet, dessert type item.

    For instance, if I have a baked pumpkin bar with whipped cream on top, both sweetened with Splenda, I can't really blame the Splenda for being knocked out of ketosis if the 10 carbs in the whipped cream, cream cheese and pumpkin have put me over my daily limit.

    Not to mention Splenda has carbs and a lot of people don't count them. I know they are there but I detest measuring things so I don't count the carbs in Splenda. (I know!) Which is probably why I have better luck using Torani syrups to sweeten things; since it is liquid, there are no carbs.
    I believe there is Splenda liquid with no dex/malto added.

    Now, if one were to say that Splenda/Aspartame IN CONJUNCTION with foods a bit higher in carbs caused an insulin spike and brought people out of ketosis, I would have absolutely no problem understanding that, my whole issue comes from artificial sweetener being ingested in the absence of any carb source.
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