New Guy, with a few Questions

[the_koz]

First off, Id like to say that I am very happy to have Discovered this place... and have enjoyed surfing around in it... seems like some nice people here...

Second, Im fairly new to the Body Building world, and in no way am I close to it yet! LOL... Let me give some back ground...

From High School till about 5 years ago, I have been 5'10" and 135# (give or take 5 lbs), A bean pole... Im 42 now, and about a year ago I was 175 lbs with 24% Body Fat. I looked like a Pregnant Bean Pole. I just got fed up, discovered this site and bought the book "HUGE" from the Online store. After a year of halfassed months followed by intense months I have gotten to 192 lbs with 16% to 18% body fat (the machine never gives the same answer)... My Goal is to get to about 210 lbs with 10% body fat.

Now here is my questions... I have pretty much leveled out, plataued... I have been following the book as best I can, but I dont have a partner/spotter on many of the big weights

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?

Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?

Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?

Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.


Thanks for any advice given... I look forward to coming to this site more often...

[RoscoPico]

Now here is my questions... I have pretty much leveled out, plataued... I have been following the book as best I can, but I dont have a partner/spotter on many of the big weights


---- Don't need them

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?

---- Don't use them. Period... What do you mean machines to do squats, deadlifts?

Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?

--- Don't know.What do you mean by tricky? Hours of pain, crutches????

Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?

---- Sure why not. Do this for a month of two, then switch it around.


Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.

--- Split over 6 meals. If you can't eat that much, then don't. Eat what you can.

[Guinness42]

Welcome to O35 Bro!! I'll bump this up so that some of the more experienced peeps can see it and help you out.

[KimberleyRN]

Hi, I welcome you to the OV35!

Have you tried supplementing glucosamine/chondroitin?

Omega's and Flaxseed oil are also good for joint health.

Do you ever wear a pressure bandage on your knee for additional support?

What do you mean by tricky knee? Is it a ligament issue or just bone?

[the_koz]

Machine to do... Smith machine, hack squats ect.

Trick Knee.... Ligament was torn years ago, not off, just torn.. when it gives, my leg bends sideways instead of backwards... and yes Hours of limping and pain... yes I use a knee support and havent had any real troubles while lifting, just cant really push too hard due to fear

[the_koz]

Welcome to O35 Bro!! I'll bump this up so that some of the more experienced peeps can see it and help you out.

Thanks

[ntrllftr]

Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level..
.

Eating six times a day may seem like a lot but with the right food it really is not.

Machine to do... Smith machine, hack squats ect.

Trick Knee.... Ligament was torn years ago, not off, just torn.. when it gives, my leg bends sideways instead of backwards... and yes Hours of limping and pain... yes I use a knee support and havent had any real troubles while lifting, just cant really push too hard due to fear

Leg extensions leg extensions leg extensions.
They will help build up the ligaments and tendons around the knee.
Leg press is a great leg builder as opposed to squats.
I feel much "safer" doing my heavier lifting of legs with the leg press and made really good gains.


.

[sonicbnn]

1. I do not use the machines for any workouts any longer. I did at first but I was 40 lbs heavier and was not comfortable in the free weight area. I would recommend using some to start if you feel more comfortable with them. If not just skip them.

2. I have in the past suffered through a seperated shoulder injury and had total knee reconstruction, so I can relate to the pain issues. I have slowly worked my way back into doing barbell bench presses and squats. Each of which I did not do because of pain. I started really light and worked my way up. I am now back to doing 4 sets of 8 - 235 on my bench, and 4 sets of 8- 265 on my squat. It is not much but I am getting there and the pain is not nearly as bad. If I do not have a spotter I use the smith machine for my bench and squat, not quite as comfortable but it is better than hurting yourself.

3. There is nothing wrong with changing up your routine. High reps and low weight can make your muscles react in a different way, so do what you need to do. The 300 workout based on the Movie is really cool.

4. The way I look at my meals is I feed my body what it can handle and not make myself feel horrible all day. I know that I am no Professional Body Builder. I have a full time and part time job that I know I do not want to feel bloated at all day. However I do try to keep the protein high no matter what and there are days I just feel like I need more and I do what I can to eat more, because a part of me still wishes I had started a long time ago, and maybe I could still be a body builder,

[weiss1967]

1. Machines for those three particular exercises - not sure if you can substitute deadlift with anything, same with squats and bench. It just won't be same. I like machines though, they bring something different into workout but rather as supplement, not the main event.

2. Never had anything major (knock on wood) but injuries are creeping in whenever I ramp up frequency and intensity. So, I work through pain half of the time. Shoulder for example - there must be sertain moves that do not hurt or not as much, so I do those. Also pain may subside to certain degree after muscles worked a little bit and then I go heavy, but not before muscles and ligaments have already done some work.

3. Switching routines is a routine on its own. Even within same routine you may try substituting exercises with similar but not same ones. Or switch the order. Try also lowering reps, bring them down to 5-6 reps per set for a month, you may be surprised with results.

4. 6 meals isn't that many. Reduce amount of food in one meal to the point when you enjoy food and happy to have another meal after 3-4 hours. Reduce amount of water intake, I know its not what all magazines teach us but the hell with the oficial story - don't drink if are not thirsty. Water takes up a lot of space in your guts and dilute stomack juices slowing dow digestion.

[Tishalicious]

I know about knee and shoulder stuff - I've had torn traps, and a knee op in the past ten years.

I've only just in the past few months been able to do squats allllll the way down without bugging my knee. Now I do that, started doing lunges and deads as well and my upper body strength is so much better I don't get the old injury bugging me at all.

I tell you plain - if you get the form right, and stop when the joint is starting to bug you... and do the stretches... you'll strengthen the muscles in that joint/your shoulder and you'll start feeling the old injuries less.

1) Know the difference between injury-bad-pain and workout-good-pain.

2) If its injury-bad-pain - stop and RICE it.

[GuyJin]

First off, welcome.

Some opinions that may be helpful.

Machines: Why? They restrict your range of motion and in some cases, do more harm than good. Having said that, if you can't squat, don't. A leg press will do nicely. I don't do extensions for legs anymore because they can overstretch the tendon around the knee with some machines. It's actually safer to do leg work with squats or, if that's out, leg presses. Hacks and the Smith Machine can (not necessarily will) put too much shear pressure on the knees, and you don't want that. I'd stick with presses, leg curls or stiff-leg deads and some calf work.

Benches. Everyone wants a big bench. If you have a bum shoulder, then find another movement that won't hurt. If inclines hurt, you can try either dips or dumbbell benches, but no overstretching. If that doesn't work, try the pec deck. If THAT doesn't work, drop the chest work and do L-flyes to help rehab your shoulder; often weak rotator cuffs are the problem. When you're ready to do chest work again, you'll know. Main rule here--do nothing that aggravates your shoulder, or any other bodypart for that matter.

Eating. Pro bodybuilders eat a lot because they're juicing, and that requires more food to "feed the muscles", so to speak. Naturals shouldn't gorge, unless they're severly underweight, and even then, it's debatable. As someone said, eat between 4 and 6 meals a day, see if you're gaining muscle. If you're gaining fat, cut back accordingly.

Deads. If you can do them with good form--as with all the other exercises, then do them. If not, stiff-legs deads or hypers will do well. Your choice.

Anything else? Warm up well, stretch afterwards, don't go all out, leave a couple of reps in the tank for next time. Have fun.

[gbg]

Welcome!! stay away from squats with that knee! knee ext with toes pointed in out and straight.

personally never use machines

Switch up your routine every couple of months or whenever your ready to

Eat 5 meals a day you want to keep your sugar levels even all day

Keep researching there are other forums for specific questions
Good luck!!

[FitIron]

First off, Id like to say that I am very happy to have Discovered this place... and have enjoyed surfing around in it... seems like some nice people here...

Second, Im fairly new to the Body Building world, and in no way am I close to it yet! LOL... Let me give some back ground...

From High School till about 5 years ago, I have been 5'10" and 135# (give or take 5 lbs), A bean pole... Im 42 now, and about a year ago I was 175 lbs with 24% Body Fat. I looked like a Pregnant Bean Pole. I just got fed up, discovered this site and bought the book "HUGE" from the Online store. After a year of halfassed months followed by intense months I have gotten to 192 lbs with 16% to 18% body fat (the machine never gives the same answer)... My Goal is to get to about 210 lbs with 10% body fat.

Now here is my questions... I have pretty much leveled out, plataued... I have been following the book as best I can, but I dont have a partner/spotter on many of the big weights

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?


Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?



Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?



Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.



Thanks for any advice given... I look forward to coming to this site more often...

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?

Nothing wrong with using machines. I mix them in at times. Don't over analyze the issue with working the stablizer muscles. Just make your goal good solid workouts. Don't sweat the small stuff at the moment.

Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?

I have the EXACT same issues. Even with the incline bench. The issue with your shoulder takes time and patience. For several weeks I couldn't use dumbbells. My entire chest workout consisted of NOTHING but performing PEC DECK flies...period. At that point I started using very light dumbbells then progressively got back on the benchs. You have to slowly work your way back into it. DON't let the testosterone take over. Many guys try lifting more than they can actually lift. Who gives a crap how much you lift unless you are a power lifter. Take your time. I'd also recommend a joint supplement or two.
Glucosamine & Chondroitin. Find one that can give you at LEAST 2000mg a day. Also use a good grade Fish Oil. Yes, they are source of good EFA's but they also help increase the flow of synovial fluid around the joints...

Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?

Good idea. About once every two weeks or so I'll add a drop set at the end of each session. Example, if perform 3 sets of incline bench with 6-8 reps per set. I'll add a 4th set, and perform 25+ reps. Not a thing wrong with that.The pump ROCKS!!!

Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.

DON'T be taken in by all the junk articles and misnomers about bulking. The standard BB'ing bulking protocols will make you FAT. Also, don't be a calorie counter. It is a waste of time. COUNT your macros instead. A good rule of thumb for anyone is the following

1.3-1.6g of protein per pound of bodyweight
1.3-1.6g of carbs
.3-.5g of fat

[gbg]

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?

Nothing wrong with using machines. I mix them in at times. Don't over analyze the issue with working the stablizer muscles. Just make your goal good solid workouts. Don't sweat the small stuff at the moment.

Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?

I have the EXACT same issues. Even with the incline bench. The issue with your shoulder takes time and patience. For several weeks I couldn't use dumbbells. My entire chest workout consisted of NOTHING but performing PEC DECK flies...period. At that point I started using very light dumbbells then progressively got back on the benchs. You have to slowly work your way back into it. DON't let the testosterone take over. Many guys try lifting more than they can actually lift. Who gives a crap how much you lift unless you are a power lifter. Take your time. I'd also recommend a joint supplement or two.
Glucosamine & Chondroitin. Find one that can give you at LEAST 2000mg a day. Also use a good grade Fish Oil. Yes, they are source of good EFA's but they also help increase the flow of synovial fluid around the joints...

Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?

Good idea. About once every two weeks or so I'll add a drop set at the end of each session. Example, if perform 3 sets of incline bench with 6-8 reps per set. I'll add a 4th set, and perform 25+ reps. Not a thing wrong with that.The pump ROCKS!!!

Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.

DON'T be taken in by all the junk articles and misnomers about bulking. The standard BB'ing bulking protocols will make you FAT. Also, don't be a calorie counter. It is a waste of time. COUNT your macros instead. A good rule of thumb for anyone is the following

1.3-1.6g of protein per pound of bodyweight
1.3-1.6g of carbs
.3-.5g of fat

See I haven't been doing it wrong all these years fit!!! Never counted calories
you said it yourself....... NO #'s just protein,carb,fat
I think I'm a prodigy

[FitIron]

See I haven't been doing it wrong all these years fit!!! Never counted calories
you said it yourself....... NO #'s just protein,carb,fat
I think I'm a prodigy

Yes, you are a prodigy, even if you say so yourself....

[gbg]

Yes, you are a prodigy, even if you say so yourself....

Wise Ass:

[FitIron]

Wise Ass:

yes, i know.....

[the_koz]

Thanks for all the info..... will do what I can with it.... went to the gym Wednesday and tried a High rep workout on arms and shoulders... OMG! LOL... I Still feel a bit of it today, but Thursday was a Monster! LOL

Once aging thanks to everyone..

[Whiskeyjack]

Welcome Koz!

1. Machines - I'm with Carl on using leg presses and leg extensions instead of squats if you are worried about your knee. If you don't have a spotter I can't see the problem with smith benches. I don't think you have to worry about stabilizers unless you're powerlifting; the goal is to build muscle. What I have noticed, however, is that in my own case incipient shoulder issues seem to be worsened using smiths depending on your positioning, so be careful. Otherwise you could focus on dumbell presses. Obviously, don't do inclines if they hurt the shoulder. And you could also do pec decks, etc. As for machines for deadlifts - I don't really know of such a thing, unless you do partial deadlifts inside a cage (see Mr. Someday's video). The other possibility is that you don't do deadlifts, or only do them occasionally, focussing instead on pullups and some form of heavy row (properly warming up, of course).

2. See above. Does the shoulder bother you with shoulder presses? Regarding the smith, I find you can do them without worsening current shoulder issues.

3. Shocking the muscles works. There are all kinds of ways to do this. Remember you have at least 3 ways to increase intensity: increase weight, increase reps, and increase speed (decrease time between sets). In the first situation, you can go for the 5x5 for a bit. Then switch to higher reps (21s and the like). Then you can do supersets and/or giant sets. Or you can combine these in different crucial ways. You can also switch bodyparts or train one a bit more than usual, etc. The variations are endless.

4. Others may disagree, but if your stomach feels bloated you're either eating the wrong thing, have allergies, or are eating too much at a time. I'm with Carl again on this one. If you want to eat 6x/diem, then make it small helpings of the right stuff. If you ask them, people will talk ad infinitum about diet and nutrition and there's even a separate forum on it. There's lots of info.

Good luck. Post progress pics.

[BergMuscle]

Good to hear. Changes are pretty much standard "treatment" for plateaus.

As for machines, I think that overall free weights are better, exactly for your reason - stablizer muscles. However, with injured/aching/problem joints, machines may be a way to work a muscle without causing that bad pain. Don't throw them out, just use them wisely.

And spread out the eating. What is surprising is that after a short time of eating 6-7 small "feedings" per day, my stomach was no longer up to an old-fashioned "big meal". And that's a good thing.

Oh, yeah, welcome to the forum.

[chodan9]

you've made some impressive gains already to gain that much weight while dropping you bodyfat that much, so you must be eating enough.
the plateau may be training related, and it looks like your addressing that too.
Welcome to the O35!!

[AprilRN]

Welcome! Sounds like you're making good progress!

[rpaul11]

1.3-1.6g of protein per pound of bodyweight
1.3-1.6g of carbs
.3-.5g of fat

do you change your macros when cutting?

welcome Koz. Seems you got some good advice to get yourself started by some folks whose opinions I would personally trust. Welcome to the OV 35 forum...glad to have you

[the_koz]

Yes indead, I have gotten alot of good advice. And I do appreciate it...

I have not done any cutting just yet... was looking at getting up to about 210 before I started cutting down. I really have no Idea what to expect there..

I am pretty sure I am getting close in the Protien and Carbs per body weight Department... the fat, well, Im pretty sure I am going heavy on that... I live in Louisiana, and I dont care what anyone says, FOOD is KING here (and Beer is Queen, Noting goes better with a crawfish boil) LOL SO I prob need to watch that a bit more (the fat AND the Beer)

The Shoulder, I really dont know how to describe it... it feels like a nerve pinching... and Only on Incline. Its almost always only at 45 degrees... I'll be pressing the weight a pain starts in my shoulder but if I move the weight a little forward or back as I press, the pain isnt there, BUT that kinda starts torqueing my arm to keep the weight up. If I push past that pain, a SHARP Pain hits that has caused me to drop the weight before... It doesnt hurt on a shoulder press or a bench or a decline, like I said, Almost always only at 45 degrees....

Machines, Yeah I didnt think there was one for Dead lifts, but I was hopeing. I dont use them much because I noticed that, for the decline press for example, I can press almost 40% more weight on the machine than with free weight. Oh it Hits the target muscle good but I dont really feel it anywhere else... I am glad to hear different opinions on that.

Progress pics.... GOD I wish I had some back when I was 135 and in shorts or something, I got some pics will post them, will try and post others...

Once again, I do appreciate all the advice... any other tidbits, send them my way. Having too much information is rarely a bad thing...

[dvbuilder]

Welcome Koz!

1. Machines -If you don't have a spotter I can't see the problem with smith benches. I don't think you have to worry about stabilizers unless you're powerlifting;

I disagree on a certain level.

If you lift for many years, which hopefully the OV35's will be doing to maintain health for many years to come, joint's can potentially become quite troublesome if they are being forced to lift more weight than they can handle, yet the muscle can easily handle...
Considering even at a young age i've had many injuries, I preach making sure you think about those stabilizing muscles.

[Whiskeyjack]

I disagree on a certain level.

If you lift for many years, which hopefully the OV35's will be doing to maintain health for many years to come, joint's can potentially become quite troublesome if they are being forced to lift more weight than they can handle, yet the muscle can easily handle...
Considering even at a young age i've had many injuries, I preach making sure you think about those stabilizing muscles.

I've trained a long time and had many injuries. I worried about stabilizers for years. I needed them when powerlifting, obviously. Last year I was using a smith for about 6 months and then went back to free barbells and found that the stabilizers were out a bit but soon came back. But unless you're going super heavy all the time, if your goal is to lift properly (in good form) simply to encourage hypertrophy, I think the stabilizer thing is less of an issue than trying to lift without a spotter. The only middle road is dumbells, which can be troublesome in other ways, especially if you're training at home. If you've got a spotter, then yes, go with barbells - I don't disagree with you there.

[dmangiarelli]

First off, Id like to say that I am very happy to have Discovered this place... and have enjoyed surfing around in it... seems like some nice people here...

I don't have a spotter. You can do two things. Slowly increase the weights you lift or use the Smith Machine if you are going hugely heavy and don't think you can handle. The Smith Machine is self spotting...

Second, Im fairly new to the Body Building world, and in no way am I close to it yet! LOL... Let me give some back ground...

From High School till about 5 years ago, I have been 5'10" and 135# (give or take 5 lbs), A bean pole... Im 42 now, and about a year ago I was 175 lbs with 24% Body Fat. I looked like a Pregnant Bean Pole. I just got fed up, discovered this site and bought the book "HUGE" from the Online store. After a year of halfassed months followed by intense months I have gotten to 192 lbs with 16% to 18% body fat (the machine never gives the same answer)... My Goal is to get to about 210 lbs with 10% body fat.

It will take years of steady eating clean and lifting hard and heavy to reach your goal. Don't expect it to happen overnight or even in six months. Keep at it. Slow and steady wins this race ...

Now here is my questions... I have pretty much leveled out, plataued... I have been following the book as best I can, but I dont have a partner/spotter on many of the big weights

Question 1 : Machines? I dont like using them because it seemes to take away all the little stablizer muscles work. What is your opinions on using the machines for BENCH, SQUATS and DEAD LIFTS?

Don't use them much but as a secondary support/burnout exercise after using free weights ...

Question 2 : I have a bum shoulder and right knee... the SHoulder doesnt give me any trouble unless I do Incline Bench, the knee, well that one is tricky... Any helpful Ideas?

I have had a surgery on my left shoulder and three knee surgeries. Doesn't slow me down a bit. It's mostly mental. Do what you can and push yourself unless it hurts. If it hurts you are either doing something wrong or injuring yourself ...

Question 3 : I have been thinking on trying to shock the muscles by lowering the weight and increasing the number of sets and Reps significantly.... Sugestions?

switching up your routine once in awhile is a great idea. Your muscles adapt to what you are doing so changing up your routine prevents that.

Question 4 : How do they (Professional Body Builders) EAT That much? Remember I have been a beanpole most of my life and only got heavy when I hit my mid 30's and kept drinking beer like I was in my 20's. Ive since cut the beer down ALOT! and Have TRIED to increace my food intake (and have to a point) but I think I have reached my max intake level.. My stomach feels bloated all day.

It's a fact of life if you want to be a body builder. There will come a time to cut and then you will appreciate the amount of food you are taking in ...

Thanks for any advice given... I look forward to coming to this site more often...

[the_koz]

Life is full of surprises and it threw me a doozie. So, here I am, Back again, right about where I was before but 4 years older. lol.
If I hadnt thanked you all before for all the good advice, I thank you now. Hopefully life doesnt get in the way this time.

[the_koz]

Again, thanks for all the great advice.
I have been back in the gym for about a half year now and now that I am back on here, I am looking for 3 things.

First, a good workout routine to follow. I got one Im doing now, and I'll post it if that would help the advice. Cant do more than an Hour a day, though... Im getting old and the energy levels arent what they used to be.

Second, A good diet plan or some good recipes ( or just direct me to a link with them)

Third, a Bodygroup for those of us who are on the back side of their 40's.

Thanks.

[-=FLEX=-]

Cant do more than an Hour a day, though... Im getting old and the energy levels arent what they used to be.

This is the wrong section to be posting crap like that.....

But anyway...welcome back...