increasing red blood cell count with iron sups.

[bryan101b]

hey, I was just wondering about increasing red blood cell count. I work at a plasma donation center and we constantly check donors blood for red blood cell percentage. when it is too low, we always recomdend eating more red meat, whole grains, or taking an iron sup. I also know that alot of steriods like anodrol-50 increase red blood cell volume. the drug was originally made for anemia victims. so what im getting at is would it be bennificial to add more iron to your diet, to increase red blood cells, and therefore increase gains at the gym?

[FlyingV]

It would help only to the extent that you are deficient in iron; most men aren't, but only a blood test will tell you for sure. If you in fact don't need any extra iron, iron supplements are unhealthy. Why not donate yourself and see what your rbc level is, or see if you can get tested and possibly retested there at work without having to donate. That'll give you a basis for pursuing it further (or not) and seeing if there's any improvement in your gains if/when you take measures to increase your rbc count with iron, b vitamins, protein or something else.

[Roke]

I think folate, and b12 do that.

Right?

[chickenbreast]

I think folate, and b12 do that.

Right?

Yes, a little bit.

I was wondering how much iron do men need? I have a bottle of Iron Complex from NOW Foods and it contains 27 mg per serving but this is pretty much. Should I take it? Any opinions would be great.

[bryan101b]

thanks for the replies, and I do check my hematocrit (red blood cells) at work. men should be around 46-49 if the are drinking water. if they are dehydrated, it will be higher. i also know when you are more dehydrated, your protien count in your plasma goes up. why, i dont know, i'll ask on monday. but i just thought if you had more red blood cells, you would be able to increase delivery of nutrients and oxygen to your muscles. but i do know that more red blood cells, means bigger muscles, thats what anadrol-50, the strongest steriod on the market was made to do, so there has to be some connection, and a way to do it naturally, and safely.

[TrueNorth]

Don't take the iron, it won't help you. Your body will suck it up like a sponge, and you'll overload on it, your body wil hoard it in your bones and organs and will become toxic. The only way to get rid of it is have it chelated or have a laboratory bleed you, you can't pee it out, etc. You can't make your body make RBCs, it has a set number that it likes.

The fastest way to increase your RBCs is to go up a few thousand feet in elevation, and sleep for about 4 days to adjust....during that time your bones will dump RBCs into your peripheral blood. When you come back down you'll have headaches until your body regulates your RBCs for the normal elevation you live at, you're urine may also be discolored while your body dumps the excess RBCs.

[bryan101b]

thanks for the responce. good info, and a little funny. well, i guess i can give up on that idea. oh well.

[bongd]

thanks for the replies, and I do check my hematocrit (red blood cells) at work. men should be around 46-49 if the are drinking water. if they are dehydrated, it will be higher. i also know when you are more dehydrated, your protien count in your plasma goes up. why, i dont know, i'll ask on monday. but i just thought if you had more red blood cells, you would be able to increase delivery of nutrients and oxygen to your muscles. but i do know that more red blood cells, means bigger muscles, thats what anadrol-50, the strongest steriod on the market was made to do, so there has to be some connection, and a way to do it naturally, and safely.

Uhhh... bodybuilders shouldn't deliberately increase RBC's. This can pose a great health risk especially if you're thinking of taking steroids with the intent to raise RBC's.

If you're doing endurance sports then this would help, but not for bodybuilding. If you're leading a bodybuilding lifestyle and eating any one of the conventional bodybuilding diets then you need to educate yourself. This is ludicrous. Unless you're iron deficient, don't go fukcing around like this.

[bryan101b]

I got this from bb.com's sup info, and pretty much answers my question...
--------------------------------------------------------
1. What is it and where does it come from?

Iron is the most abundant element on Earth and is an essential trace mineral for humans. It can be found in many different foods including meats and vegetables as well as be obtained by using iron cookware.

In supplements iron comes in many forms with the best absorbed being ferrous succinate or sulfate although ferrous sulfate can cause gut irritation. A good alternative is ferrous gluconate and ferrous fumurate. Also available is a hydrolyzed protein chelate form called ferritin. In the body iron is stored primarily in bone marrow, the spleen, and the liver.

2. What does it do and what scientific studies give evidence to support this?

Iron is best known for its role as oxygen carrier within the protein hemoglobin. Red blood cells contain hemoglobin which transport oxygen to various tissues as it passes through the longs thanks to the oxygen binding characteristic of iron.

Myoglobin, another molecule containing iron, carries and stores oxygen in cells and is essential for all bodily tissues and their cellular activity. Every 120 days, red blood cells and the iron they contain are replaced and recycled.

Numerous enzymes involved in metabolism require iron to function. Iron is necessary for protein metabolism as well as cell division and growth because of its role in DNA synthesis. Iron also plays a role in connective tissue production, neurotransmitters, immune system maintenance, and in the production of thyroid hormone.

Learn more about the benefits of Iron on Clayton South's Health Facts.


3. Who needs it and what are some symptoms of deficiency?
Only about 5-10 percent of the iron in our diets is absorbed. Hem-iron (organic iron found in meats) is absorbed much better than "non heme". Sugars and amino acids may boost absorption.


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Female athletes, endurance athletes, and athletes on low-calorie diets are at a heightened risk for deficiency. Iron deficiency is also considered one of the most common nutritional deficiencies in the US. Deficiency symptoms include fatigue, rapid heartbeat, breathlessness, lack of concentration, giddiness, disturbed sleep, sever menstrual pain and bleeding, cracked lips and eye inflammation.


4. How much should be taken? Are there any side effects?
Iron's RDA for men is 10 mg and for women is 15mg. However, for hard training athletes the PDI (performance daily intake) for men and women is from 25 to 60 milligrams.

The estimated safe range for adults is 80mg but taking as little as 30mg every day over a long period of time has been known to lead to overdose symptoms. Excessive intake can cause abdominal cramping, diarrhea, constipation, nausea, deterioration of the gut lining and liver damage.


5. Where can I get it?
The easiest way to eat your serving of iron is with 1 cup of Branflakes which will provide 10.8mg. Other than that, red meat, liver, fish, and poultry are the some of the best sources, providing the preferable "heme-iron". Shellfish and eggs as well as legumes and a few different dark green vegetables are mediocre sources.

Cooking foods in an iron pan can "fortify" them with a type of iron that has a fairly low bioavailability. The best supplements for iron include liver tabs as they provide the well absorbed heme-iron.

[AphtaLyfe]

thanks for the replies, and I do check my hematocrit (red blood cells) at work. men should be around 46-49 if the are drinking water. if they are dehydrated, it will be higher. i also know when you are more dehydrated, your protien count in your plasma goes up. why, i dont know, i'll ask on monday. but i just thought if you had more red blood cells, you would be able to increase delivery of nutrients and oxygen to your muscles. but i do know that more red blood cells, means bigger muscles, thats what anadrol-50, the strongest steriod on the market was made to do, so there has to be some connection, and a way to do it naturally, and safely.

Protein is measured in concentration. If your liquid volume goes down, the concentration of solutes will go up. (proteins, electrolytes..etc)

Increasing iron intake will not do anything to your RBC count, size, or hgb concentration unless you were iron deficient to begin with.

You can check your iron levels by checking ferritin and TIBC.
If both are normal then you are fine.
If your TIBC is up and ferritin is down then you might be iron deficient.

As far as B12 and Folate goes... lack of either of those (or intrinsic factor required to absorb B12) actually increases the size of your RBCs... but this results in megaloblastic anemia and is detrimental not beneficial.

You can have a shilling's test performed if you think you might be deficient in B12/Folate/Intrinsic factor. Also again... supplementing with folate or B12 will not affect your rbc oxygen transport efficiency unless you were deficient to begin with.

Males typically do not need iron supplementation since we on average consume more iron than women.

Males also do not menstruate. So the only way our body really loses iron is through traumatic injury resulting in blood loss. (we only lose about 1mg of iron a day. females lose about 1.5-2mg a day on average)

The human body stores about 5 years of iron and will actually upregulate the absorption of iron in the intestine if it senses that iron stores are being depleted.

Cliffs:
Do not supplement iron unless you are iron deficient

[The Gasman UK]

Hmmm -

'Do not supplement iron' - What about the 100% rda in my daily multi ? Should I look for a multi without iron ?