Bodybuilding.com Information Motivation Supplementation
in:

    The World’s #1 Bodybuilding And Fitness Forum - Save Up To 50% Off Retail Prices In Our Bodybuilding.com Store!

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 50
  1. #1
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline

    The Soviet Union and Russian Imperialism for dummies

    So I got negged and in the comment box the guy put in there "SOVIET UNION SOVIET UNION" about as many times as he could. I pitied his stupidity and thought it best to give him insight as to why the non-Russians do not worship their feet and wave their flag as he wishes.

    Help me out, R/P section...I think this is something you all can agree with.

    1. Its core, it was supposed to be communist. It wasn't. It was facist and oppressive. People were safe, as long as they didn't criticize the government. Dissent meant you and your family/friends were tortured. There's endless testimonies on documentaries now.

    2. Russia took all from the Republics and gave little back. Material goods, educated minds, materials from the other side of the iron wall...

    3. People lived without means. It wasn't a paradise. If anything, the brief existence it had turned many religious communities into ones where extortion and theft was expected! This is so rampant among the soviets I've talked to, to them its unheard of to NOT steal from your employer! Many of them have actually made fortunes by stealing customers from their employers and going into business for themselves!

    4. Russia lost the first world war and second world war. British gave to Russia its honor, but only as a secondary token for its assistance for its own defense. If it wasn't for that, all of Europe would still be chanting 'sieg heil' before class starts every day in school. It was a distraction for the Germans, and the Germans only wanted to destroy Russia anyways (it never wanted war with France/Britain at all).

    5. It fell apart. It was supposed to last forever. it was supposed to be a pattern of constant improvement. Today Russia is Europes toilet except that its oil and natural gas revenues are keeping its mafias well fed.

    6. None of Russias neighbors care for Russia. They are especially fed up with its recent rise in imperialistic ambitions.

    7. Lenin was a lunatic. Trotsky was a Jew who only wanted to empower his fellow oligarth associates and repress Russian racism (most of the early communists were Jewish intellectuals and businessmen). Stalin was a Georgian with a vengance against Jews and non-Russians, probably because of his half-breed heritage and childhood issues from a racist environment.

    8. Each soviet republic has volumes of horror stories, thanks to the red revolution...even Russia

    9. The Red revolution was only possible because no one cared about Russia anymore, at a time when thhe world economy was collapsing and people were tired of war. Most intelligent and wealthy Russians at the time went to western Europe to invest and rebuild.

    10. It never accomplished anything but controversy. The Mig jet engine was an Armenian design. Most scientific and weapons and health related discoveries were done by other ethnicities other than Russians.

    You see, former soviets dont wave your flag or appreciate your 'salvation' becaues you were never welcome anyways. You just filled a power vacuum at the end of the world war and you did nothing else. Period.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    1. How can a planned economy be fascist? This is yet another abuse of the word "fascist".
    2. Take a look at Soviet budgets and you'll notice the stupidity of your claim.
    3. No country in the world experienced such growth as the Soviet Union did under Stalin. "Means" is a tough word to explain, but if you take a look at the Soviet industrial production in 1917 and compare it to 20 years later on, you'll notice your mistake.
    4. And the soldier that raised the flag over Reichstag was American, right?
    5. Nothing lasts forever.
    6. Ever heard of Belarus?
    7. You do realize that Georgia is not a part of Russia?
    8. You blame the Reds, another man would blame the Whites.
    9. Please provide proof for your insane claim about most "wealthy" Russians going to Western Europe at that time. Ironically, in a way it's the other way around; Stalin imported thousands of best engineers from the West for work.
    10. Are you trying to dismiss the Russians or the Soviets? Mikhail Gurevich.. sounds very Armenian..
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Banned Hiroshawn_ftw's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2008
    Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States
    Age: 25
    Stats: 6'1", 175 lbs
    Posts: 2,063
    Rep Power: 0
    Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Hiroshawn_ftw is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    Visit Hiroshawn_ftw's BodySpace
    Hiroshawn_ftw is offline
    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    So I got negged and in the comment box the guy put in there "SOVIET UNION SOVIET UNION" about as many times as he could. I pitied his stupidity and thought it best to give him insight as to why the non-Russians do not worship their feet and wave their flag as he wishes.

    Help me out, R/P section...I think this is something you all can agree with.

    1. Its core, it was supposed to be communist. It wasn't. It was facist and oppressive. People were safe, as long as they didn't criticize the government. Dissent meant you and your family/friends were tortured. There's endless testimonies on documentaries now.

    2. Russia took all from the Republics and gave little back. Material goods, educated minds, materials from the other side of the iron wall...

    3. People lived without means. It wasn't a paradise. If anything, the brief existence it had turned many religious communities into ones where extortion and theft was expected! This is so rampant among the soviets I've talked to, to them its unheard of to NOT steal from your employer! Many of them have actually made fortunes by stealing customers from their employers and going into business for themselves!

    4. Russia lost the first world war and second world war. British gave to Russia its honor, but only as a secondary token for its assistance for its own defense. If it wasn't for that, all of Europe would still be chanting 'sieg heil' before class starts every day in school. It was a distraction for the Germans, and the Germans only wanted to destroy Russia anyways (it never wanted war with France/Britain at all).

    5. It fell apart. It was supposed to last forever. it was supposed to be a pattern of constant improvement. Today Russia is Europes toilet except that its oil and natural gas revenues are keeping its mafias well fed.

    6. None of Russias neighbors care for Russia. They are especially fed up with its recent rise in imperialistic ambitions.

    7. Lenin was a lunatic. Trotsky was a Jew who only wanted to empower his fellow oligarth associates and repress Russian racism (most of the early communists were Jewish intellectuals and businessmen). Stalin was a Georgian with a vengance against Jews and non-Russians, probably because of his half-breed heritage and childhood issues from a racist environment.

    8. Each soviet republic has volumes of horror stories, thanks to the red revolution...even Russia

    9. The Red revolution was only possible because no one cared about Russia anymore, at a time when thhe world economy was collapsing and people were tired of war. Most intelligent and wealthy Russians at the time went to western Europe to invest and rebuild.

    10. It never accomplished anything but controversy. The Mig jet engine was an Armenian design. Most scientific and weapons and health related discoveries were done by other ethnicities other than Russians.

    You see, former soviets dont wave your flag or appreciate your 'salvation' becaues you were never welcome anyways. You just filled a power vacuum at the end of the world war and you did nothing else. Period.
    you are a fat out of shape idiot. do you lift?
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline
    7. You do realize that Georgia is not a part of Russia?
    8. You blame the Reds, another man would blame the Whites.
    9. Please provide proof for your insane claim about most "wealthy" Russians going to Western Europe at that time. Ironically, in a way it's the other way around; Stalin imported thousands of best engineers from the West for work.
    10. Are you trying to dismiss the Russians or the Soviets? Mikhail Gurevich.. sounds very Armenian..[/QUOTE]
    1. Much of what happened in Russia was off the books. Any soviet citizen knew that.

    2. what happened to the 5 year plans? dismal failure. Growth isn't hard to do when you have nothing by the way, and you're plundering other countries. To maintain it, as the US is also discovering, after war, is another story.

    3. you credit the industrial revolution for soviet prosperity? funny. how about comparing it to any other european country?

    4. reichstag is one thing. a country trying to be independent, adn independent in name...using a russian flag? give me a break. you better bring back the red army. last time i checked, russia was dying from that tiny pimple on its ass named chechnya.

    6. belarus? what about it? the US has canada. belarus = white russia = almost teh same country.

    7 I do, do you?\

    ugh, i'm out of energy. you should read up on current events and Russian history outside of Pravda 1970's
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    7. You do realize that Georgia is not a part of Russia?
    8. You blame the Reds, another man would blame the Whites.
    9. Please provide proof for your insane claim about most "wealthy" Russians going to Western Europe at that time. Ironically, in a way it's the other way around; Stalin imported thousands of best engineers from the West for work.
    10. Are you trying to dismiss the Russians or the Soviets? Mikhail Gurevich.. sounds very Armenian..
    1. Much of what happened in Russia was off the books. Any soviet citizen knew that.

    2. what happened to the 5 year plans? dismal failure. Growth isn't hard to do when you have nothing by the way, and you're plundering other countries. To maintain it, as the US is also discovering, after war, is another story.

    3. you credit the industrial revolution for soviet prosperity? funny. how about comparing it to any other european country?

    4. reichstag is one thing. a country trying to be independent, adn independent in name...using a russian flag? give me a break. you better bring back the red army. last time i checked, russia was dying from that tiny pimple on its ass named chechnya.

    6. belarus? what about it? the US has canada. belarus = white russia = almost teh same country.

    7 I do, do you?\

    ugh, i'm out of energy. you should read up on current events and Russian history outside of Pravda 1970's[/QUOTE]

    Now let's stop with this anti-Soviet crap.. What exactly did happen to the 5 year plans? During Stalin's times, they were a HUGE success with industrialization being massive. The downfall of the Soviet economy started after the Kosygin reform in 1965 and if you remember correctly, Stalin had been dead for quite some time by then. I'm NOT comparing the Soviet Union to USA or anything because those comparisons are impossible (not even the same methodology was used to calculate the GDP!!), I'm comparing the Soviet Union to pre-1917 countries. "Reichstag is one thing" idiocy is nothing... The Soviet Union won WW2 and no "Reichstag is one thing" crap will change that. You go on saying that all neighboring countries hate Russia and then I give you Belarus as an example of the opposite... Comment on the issue, don't ignore it! And if you do realize that Georgia is not a part of Russia, why go on talking nonsense that Stalin hated everything and everyone not Russian? To which "Soviets" did you talk to? To the Ukrainian pro-fascists (this does not mean that all of them are fascists, but many of them, as the last happenings prove, certainly are).
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Banned Volodya_Putin's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2008
    Age: 96
    Posts: 555
    Rep Power: 0
    Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    Visit Volodya_Putin's BodySpace
    Volodya_Putin is offline
    Originally Posted by matt555 View Post
    Now let's stop with this anti-Soviet crap.. What exactly did happen to the 5 year plans? During Stalin's times, they were a HUGE success with industrialization being massive. The downfall of the Soviet economy started after the Kosygin reform in 1965 and if you remember correctly, Stalin had been dead for quite some time by then. I'm NOT comparing the Soviet Union to USA or anything because those comparisons are impossible (not even the same methodology was used to calculate the GDP!!), I'm comparing the Soviet Union to pre-1917 countries. "Reichstag is one thing" idiocy is nothing... The Soviet Union won WW2 and no "Reichstag is one thing" crap will change that. You go on saying that all neighboring countries hate Russia and then I give you Belarus as an example of the opposite... Comment on the issue, don't ignore it! And if you do realize that Georgia is not a part of Russia, why go on talking nonsense that Stalin hated everything and everyone not Russian? To which "Soviets" did you talk to? To the Ukrainian pro-fascists (this does not mean that all of them are fascists, but many of them, as the last happenings prove, certainly are).
    It's a joke. Saying Russia didn't win WWII is like saying the British just let the Americans go, Americans didn't win their independence the British just got sick of it.

    I always find it funny when someone pulls the "well I talked to some Soviets." Big deal. Did you talk to at least 500? Because you'll get a different experience for each one and also depending where they are from. Americans love to claim they are an expert on life in the CCCP based on brief conversations or a mother's brother's uncle's story of visiting the CCCP they heard when they were 6. Or they read some American propaganda and claim expertise.

    Russian dying from chechnya? LOL. Right...looks like we have a muslim extremist apologist.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline
    I'm not a muslim or an extremist...just tired of certain people posting here that all former soviet republic should fly the russian flags and 'be grateful'.

    The soviet union wasn't all bad but it wasn't all good at all. from poverty, its mere accomplishments seemed pretty good but compare tehm all to the rest of Europe, and you'll see why none of the former soviet republics fly the russian flags and are NOT grateful. I'm sure things are still grand adn dandy from teh russian view though but that's not what I'm talking about. we all know what arrogant nationalism sounds like, no matter where it comes from.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Forever Motivated BuildKing's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2007
    Stats: 5'10", 178 lbs
    Posts: 3,147
    BodyPoints: 19889
    Rep Power: 5124
    BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BuildKing has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BuildKing's BodySpace
    BuildKing is offline
    lmao op you know crap about USSR
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline
    Originally Posted by BuildKing View Post
    lmao op you know crap about USSR
    That's my point! USSR = CRAP!


    I never lived there but I have in-laws and countless friends who were there under the red banner.

    BUT IF I"M WRONG, type away! This thread is a challenge to people like you- I want you to show me why former soviet republics should be so grateful to the russians and fly their flag and worship their feet! enlighten this poor student of life
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Registered User BigBen85's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2007
    Location: Chantilly, Virginia, United States
    Age: 27
    Stats: 6'8", 280 lbs
    Posts: 6,703
    BodyPoints: 2168
    Rep Power: 4355
    BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BigBen85's BodySpace
    BigBen85 is offline
    Ive never understood why there is so many soviet lovers on this site, there is so many reasons why the USSR sucked and should have been eradicated off the planet, it is ridiculous.
    I REP ALL CURRENT AND FORMER MILITARY MEMBERS, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. IF I MISS YOU SEND ME A PM AND I WILL GET YOU. YOU ARE ALL HEROES IN MY BOOK.

    *****MFC 4 LYFE!!!!!!*****

    *****Virginia Crew*****
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Banned Volodya_Putin's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2008
    Age: 96
    Posts: 555
    Rep Power: 0
    Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank) Volodya_Putin is the lowest scum of the boards. (Worst Rank)
    Visit Volodya_Putin's BodySpace
    Volodya_Putin is offline
    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    I'm not a muslim or an extremist...just tired of certain people posting here that all former soviet republic should fly the russian flags and 'be grateful'.
    What? I've never seen any type on here "non russians should fly the flag and be grateful." All you're doing is trying to stir up anti-russian sentiment.

    For someone who isn't muslim or extremist you certainly appear to happy at the chechnya situation. I bet you had wet dreams after Beslan incident.

    The soviet union wasn't all bad but it wasn't all good at all. from poverty, its mere accomplishments seemed pretty good but compare tehm all to the rest of Europe, and you'll see why none of the former soviet republics fly the russian flags and are NOT grateful. I'm sure things are still grand adn dandy from teh russian view though but that's not what I'm talking about. we all know what arrogant nationalism sounds like, no matter where it comes from.
    "grand and dandy"?, don't understand.

    So American isn't nationalistic too?

    You have two Americans who seek the demise of the Russia state running for president, one who personally hates Russia (John McCain) and the other (Barack Obama) has advisors who hate Russia too.

    I never lived there but I have in-laws and countless friends who were there under the red banner.
    From where? moscow, st. petersburg, nizhny novgorod, novosibirsk, vladivostok? Although based on your skin color I'm 100 positive your not Russian.

    Horror stories. Like countries don't have horror stories from America too? Maybe we should ask the Filipinos how they feel after losing their fight for independence against america and having a dictator installed for 48 years. Maybe we should ask Latin and South America the same thing?
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    Originally Posted by BigBen85 View Post
    there is so many reasons why the USSR sucked and should have been eradicated off the planet, it is ridiculous.
    Name 3, I can easily prove you've been brainwashed by the anti-Soviet propaganda. My bet is that you've never even been there or studied the Soviet Union in no detail whatsoever. Prove me wrong.
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User BigBen85's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2007
    Location: Chantilly, Virginia, United States
    Age: 27
    Stats: 6'8", 280 lbs
    Posts: 6,703
    BodyPoints: 2168
    Rep Power: 4355
    BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BigBen85's BodySpace
    BigBen85 is offline
    Originally Posted by matt555 View Post
    Name 3, I can easily prove you've been brainwashed by the anti-Soviet propaganda. My bet is that you've never even been there or studied the Soviet Union in no detail whatsoever. Prove me wrong.
    1. look at how poverty stricken the former eastern bloc countries are, they are just now somewhat recovering from the mess Russia made
    2. look at the millions upon millions of deaths of their own people that the soviets are responsible for.
    3. if it was so awesome then why did they have to build a wall to keep people in? why would anyone want to leave if it was so great? how come they had to have all of the secret routes into western germany? because communism sucked thats why
    4. Communism collapsed, thats proof in itself that is was a ****ty system.
    I REP ALL CURRENT AND FORMER MILITARY MEMBERS, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. IF I MISS YOU SEND ME A PM AND I WILL GET YOU. YOU ARE ALL HEROES IN MY BOOK.

    *****MFC 4 LYFE!!!!!!*****

    *****Virginia Crew*****
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    Originally Posted by BigBen85 View Post
    1. look at how poverty stricken the former eastern bloc countries are, they are just now somewhat recovering from the mess Russia made
    2. look at the millions upon millions of deaths of their own people that the soviets are responsible for.
    3. if it was so awesome then why did they have to build a wall to keep people in? why would anyone want to leave if it was so great? how come they had to have all of the secret routes into western germany? because communism sucked thats why
    4. Communism collapsed, thats proof in itself that is was a ****ty system.
    You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
    1) Were "eastern bloc countries" highly developed before the 1917 revolution? They were ****holes, nothing else. In 1989, the poverty rate in Russia was around 2 %. 4 Years later, that percentage grew to 20 %. The eastern bloc countries are recovering from their own, not Russia's incompetence. You cannot decide for the market & "democracy" and then blame someone else for failing miserably.
    2) Provide proof for your statement. Even during Stalin's times, the casualties haven't exceeded 1 million.
    3) There was NO WALL around the Soviet Union, last time I checked, the Berlin wall was a miniature compared to the size of the Soviet Union. And we've already discussed the Berlin wall issue in another thread; you simply won't be able to prove it's been built to prevent the Easterners from leaving.
    4) Capitalism collapsed many times before (take the Roman empire as an example). So capitalism sucks. This is your logic of deduction. But it's wrong.
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User BigBen85's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2007
    Location: Chantilly, Virginia, United States
    Age: 27
    Stats: 6'8", 280 lbs
    Posts: 6,703
    BodyPoints: 2168
    Rep Power: 4355
    BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BigBen85's BodySpace
    BigBen85 is offline
    Originally Posted by matt555 View Post
    You obviously don't know what you're talking about.
    1) Were "eastern bloc countries" highly developed before the 1917 revolution? They were ****holes, nothing else. In 1989, the poverty rate in Russia was around 2 %. 4 Years later, that percentage grew to 20 %. The eastern bloc countries are recovering from their own, not Russia's incompetence. You cannot decide for the market & "democracy" and then blame someone else for failing miserably.
    2) Provide proof for your statement. Even during Stalin's times, the casualties haven't exceeded 1 million.
    3) There was NO WALL around the Soviet Union, last time I checked, the Berlin wall was a miniature compared to the size of the Soviet Union. And we've already discussed the Berlin wall issue in another thread; you simply won't be able to prove it's been built to prevent the Easterners from leaving.
    4) Capitalism collapsed many times before (take the Roman empire as an example). So capitalism sucks. This is your logic of deduction. But it's wrong.
    1.) Sweden, Italy, and Ireland were poor as **** too at the time and look at them now. The eastern bloc countries would have developed just like them but because of communism they are still economic basketcases.
    2.) there is mountains of evidence showing the human rights atrocities of the soviet union, I dont even know where to begin just look it up.
    3.)i never saw the thread so I dont know what conclusion you guys came too, but a wall is a all, obviously life in western Germany looked much sweeter then life in the east so they built a wasll to keep them from leaving. There were other walls too, just not has heavily guarded as the Berlin wall (more of fences) in other easterncountries that boarderd the west.
    4. look at how little time it took for the soviet empire to collapse, it was around for less than 100 years before it collapsed, the Roman Empire were around for hundreds if not thousands of years before they collapsed. THerefore communism fails hard.
    I REP ALL CURRENT AND FORMER MILITARY MEMBERS, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. IF I MISS YOU SEND ME A PM AND I WILL GET YOU. YOU ARE ALL HEROES IN MY BOOK.

    *****MFC 4 LYFE!!!!!!*****

    *****Virginia Crew*****
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    Originally Posted by BigBen85 View Post
    1.) Sweden, Italy, and Ireland were poor as **** too at the time and look at them now. The eastern bloc countries would have developed just like them but because of communism they are still economic basketcases.
    2.) there is mountains of evidence showing the human rights atrocities of the soviet union, I dont even know where to begin just look it up.
    3.)i never saw the thread so I dont know what conclusion you guys came too, but a wall is a all, obviously life in western Germany looked much sweeter then life in the east so they built a wasll to keep them from leaving. There were other walls too, just not has heavily guarded as the Berlin wall (more of fences) in other easterncountries that boarderd the west.
    4. look at how little time it took for the soviet empire to collapse, it was around for less than 100 years before it collapsed, the Roman Empire were around for hundreds if not thousands of years before they collapsed. THerefore communism fails hard.
    1) No, they were not. This is a good starting point: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...er-capita-1900

    Where is Russia? Where are other EB countries?

    2) I don't care about "human atrocities", every single death can be called that. They happened in the Soviet Union and they're happening in Guantanamo. Provide proof for "millions upon millions" of deaths as a result of this atrocities. During the Russian civil war, hundreds of thousands of people died, true, but that war resulted in massive losses on both sides. Then, you'd have Stalin, but he killed far less people that you obviously believe. There are even stupidities linking 40 million deaths to Stalin to be found online! I guess that Stalin is personally responsible for ALL the Russians and ALL the Germans killed in the Soviet Union, at least that's what some Americans obviously believe.

    3) What rubbish are they feeding you with? The wall didn't only prevent Easterners from going to the West, but also the Westerners from constantly interfering with politics in the Russian sector.

    4) The question is WHY, not how long it took.
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Registered User BigBen85's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2007
    Location: Chantilly, Virginia, United States
    Age: 27
    Stats: 6'8", 280 lbs
    Posts: 6,703
    BodyPoints: 2168
    Rep Power: 4355
    BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) BigBen85 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit BigBen85's BodySpace
    BigBen85 is offline
    Originally Posted by matt555 View Post
    1) No, they were not. This is a good starting point: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ec...er-capita-1900

    Where is Russia? Where are other EB countries?

    2) I don't care about "human atrocities", every single death can be called that. They happened in the Soviet Union and they're happening in Guantanamo. Provide proof for "millions upon millions" of deaths as a result of this atrocities. During the Russian civil war, hundreds of thousands of people died, true, but that war resulted in massive losses on both sides. Then, you'd have Stalin, but he killed far less people that you obviously believe. There are even stupidities linking 40 million deaths to Stalin to be found online! I guess that Stalin is personally responsible for ALL the Russians and ALL the Germans killed in the Soviet Union, at least that's what some Americans obviously believe.

    3) What rubbish are they feeding you with? The wall didn't only prevent Easterners from going to the West, but also the Westerners from constantly interfering with politics in the Russian sector.

    4) The question is WHY, not how long it took.
    woah be easy bro, your sounding pretty defensive Im just trying to have a discussion, no need to get upset/borderline insulting. Anyway

    1.) dont know if that graph is accurate considering that the Uk isnt on there (the richest nation in the world at the time). Also I know Sweden was poor around that time because my great grandparents came over from there to the US for a better life at the time.
    2.)read jsut about everything on this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalin
    3.) yes but mostly it was to keep people in, why else would there be underground railroads that people would use to get across.
    4.) I know but I am saying that comparitively the communist empire collapsed in a lot shorter of a timespan then the roman or greek empires, therefore it must not be as good.
    Last edited by BigBen85; 07-05-2008 at 01:22 PM.
    I REP ALL CURRENT AND FORMER MILITARY MEMBERS, BOTH FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC. IF I MISS YOU SEND ME A PM AND I WILL GET YOU. YOU ARE ALL HEROES IN MY BOOK.

    *****MFC 4 LYFE!!!!!!*****

    *****Virginia Crew*****
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    BigBen85, all I'm saying is that I'm sick and tired of the US view of history. It's very easy to prove that the East, especially Russia was not the greatest place to live in at the beginning of the 20th century. The Russian GDP p.c. (even though GDP alone is worthless to prove living standards) was three times lower than the American one before WW1. During the Russian civil war, it dropped to around 1/3 of that! It's impossible to talk about economics in Soviet Union not relying on certain facts that picture the situation Russia was in around that time. UK is missing from that list, true, it would've been included in the top 3 with its GDP p.c. around 3k Pounds (I have conflicting data about it, though).

    About Stalin: That wiki article is rubbish and highly biased, just read the comments, please. There are some good biographies out there and they should be used for debunking this "Stalin is evil" myth. It's quite possible that less than 500.000 people died because of Stalin. The number could be as high as 3-4 million, but is still FAR from 20,30,40 or even 60 million people.

    About the wall: There is unbiased data available online, this site should serve as a starting point: http://www.berlinermauer.se/BerlinWall/bygg.htm
    Of course the Soviet borders were well defended, but this idea of walls separating the good and the bad regime are clearly only present in western movies.

    About the collapse: Many systems have stopped being functional in the past, this is nothing new. While centuries ago, this happened mainly due to military problems, later on it's happened due to economics. Monetary overhang (excess liquidity), budget deficits, repressed inflation and other problems of post 1965 central planning proved to be the main cause for it. The system's problems are one side of the coin, its huge achievements are the other.
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Registered User leafs43's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Age: 33
    Stats: 6'0", 221 lbs
    Posts: 30,685
    BodyPoints: 9028
    Rep Power: 15301
    leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leafs43's BodySpace
    leafs43 is offline
    Originally Posted by matt555 View Post
    BigBen85, all I'm saying is that I'm sick and tired of the US view of history. It's very easy to prove that the East, especially Russia was not the greatest place to live in at the beginning of the 20th century. The Russian GDP p.c. (even though GDP alone is worthless to prove living standards) was three times lower than the American one before WW1. During the Russian civil war, it dropped to around 1/3 of that! It's impossible to talk about economics in Soviet Union not relying on certain facts that picture the situation Russia was in around that time. UK is missing from that list, true, it would've been included in the top 3 with its GDP p.c. around 3k Pounds (I have conflicting data about it, though).

    About Stalin: That wiki article is rubbish and highly biased, just read the comments, please. There are some good biographies out there and they should be used for debunking this "Stalin is evil" myth. It's quite possible that less than 500.000 people died because of Stalin. The number could be as high as 3-4 million, but is still FAR from 20,30,40 or even 60 million people.

    About the wall: There is unbiased data available online, this site should serve as a starting point: http://www.berlinermauer.se/BerlinWall/bygg.htm
    Of course the Soviet borders were well defended, but this idea of walls separating the good and the bad regime are clearly only present in western movies.

    About the collapse: Many systems have stopped being functional in the past, this is nothing new. While centuries ago, this happened mainly due to military problems, later on it's happened due to economics. Monetary overhang (excess liquidity), budget deficits, repressed inflation and other problems of post 1965 central planning proved to be the main cause for it. The system's problems are one side of the coin, its huge achievements are the other.

    Have you ever been to the actual museum for the Berlin Wall in Berlin? I have.

    Its pretty damn obvious that the stereotypical western view is actually a correct assertion.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: In the bar
    Posts: 22,954
    BodyPoints: 6378
    Rep Power: 14863
    Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr Beer's BodySpace
    Mr Beer is offline
    "4. Russia lost the first world war and second world war. British gave to Russia its honor, but only as a secondary token for its assistance for its own defense. If it wasn't for that, all of Europe would still be chanting 'sieg heil' before class starts every day in school. It was a distraction for the Germans, and the Germans only wanted to destroy Russia anyways (it never wanted war with France/Britain at all)."

    Russia played a huge part in winning WW2. You know there was an Eastern front? You know who rolled that up? It wasn't the US or the British.
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

    ScubaStevo: "You're right, I wish I could be Obama."
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Registered User leafs43's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Age: 33
    Stats: 6'0", 221 lbs
    Posts: 30,685
    BodyPoints: 9028
    Rep Power: 15301
    leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leafs43's BodySpace
    leafs43 is offline
    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    "4. Russia lost the first world war and second world war. British gave to Russia its honor, but only as a secondary token for its assistance for its own defense. If it wasn't for that, all of Europe would still be chanting 'sieg heil' before class starts every day in school. It was a distraction for the Germans, and the Germans only wanted to destroy Russia anyways (it never wanted war with France/Britain at all)."

    Russia played a huge part in winning WW2. You know there was an Eastern front? You know who rolled that up? It wasn't the US or the British.
    I think what he ulltimately meant was if it was not for the Brits declaring war on Germany it would have been a 1 front war all along. With the Luftwaffe focusing completely on the eastern side and not claiming air superiority over the English channel, Russia probably would have been lost.

    Because keep in mind the Nazi's marched to within 50 miles of Moscow even when fighting on the Western front. It was their lack of supplies and man power that stopped their advance.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: In the bar
    Posts: 22,954
    BodyPoints: 6378
    Rep Power: 14863
    Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr Beer's BodySpace
    Mr Beer is offline
    Originally Posted by leafs43 View Post
    I think what he ulltimately meant was if it was not for the Brits declaring war on Germany it would have been a 1 front war all along. With the Luftwaffe focusing completely on the eastern side and not claiming air superiority over the English channel, Russia probably would have been lost.

    Because keep in mind the Nazi's marched to within 50 miles of Moscow even when fighting on the Western front. It was their lack of supplies and man power that stopped their advance.
    You can't ignore the Soviet contribution to WW2 by saying "well, if it wasn't for x, the Nazis would have taken Moscow". On their own, Britain probably couldn't beat Germany.
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

    ScubaStevo: "You're right, I wish I could be Obama."
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    Registered User leafs43's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Age: 33
    Stats: 6'0", 221 lbs
    Posts: 30,685
    BodyPoints: 9028
    Rep Power: 15301
    leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leafs43's BodySpace
    leafs43 is offline
    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    You can't ignore the Soviet contribution to WW2 by saying "well, if it wasn't for x, the Nazis would have taken Moscow". On their own, Britain probably couldn't beat Germany.
    I don't ignore the Soviet offensive but that is much later in the war.

    With the Nazi's full armies in the east, Stalingrad and Moscow would have fallen.
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: In the bar
    Posts: 22,954
    BodyPoints: 6378
    Rep Power: 14863
    Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr Beer's BodySpace
    Mr Beer is offline
    "The Soviet Union made an enormous contribution towards winning WW2 and was one of the Big Three Allies: US, Britain and Russia."

    Agree or disagree?
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

    ScubaStevo: "You're right, I wish I could be Obama."
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Registered User leafs43's Avatar
    Join Date: Apr 2007
    Age: 33
    Stats: 6'0", 221 lbs
    Posts: 30,685
    BodyPoints: 9028
    Rep Power: 15301
    leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) leafs43 has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit leafs43's BodySpace
    leafs43 is offline
    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    "The Soviet Union made an enormous contribution towards winning WW2 and was one of the Big Three Allies: US, Britain and Russia."

    Agree or disagree?
    I agree.

    I'm sure you get some asshat in here that says Russia could have won the war on its own however.
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: In the bar
    Posts: 22,954
    BodyPoints: 6378
    Rep Power: 14863
    Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr Beer's BodySpace
    Mr Beer is offline
    Originally Posted by leafs43 View Post
    I agree.

    I'm sure you get some asshat in here that says Russia could have won the war on its own however.
    OK, then we agree - I was beginning to think so, but it's hard to know online sometimes. And yes, Russia would have been in deep **** if they were in WW2 on their own.
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

    ScubaStevo: "You're right, I wish I could be Obama."
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline
    your soviet comrade got his own thread locked by bumping it in the regular misc forum, where i was the only person to reply. i'm not anti-russian or anti-semetic (why does any gentile saying 'jew' make him anti-semetic?). I'm for Israel to destroy any country that threatens it and I'm for Russias foreign policy in many ways and consider them superior to the bush/clinton doctrines we've had here. but i guess its moot to say so since i'm constantly attacked personally rather than the points I made- guess I won the debate?

    Eastern front was won by the British because without them Germany would have destroyed Moscow. Everyone knows that. Germany never intended war with England or expected them to join...anyone who knows anything about Hitlers regime knows that was his only gamble and mistake that cost him his vision of german imperialism. you should also note that the UK barely joined the war, not just because it wasn't anti-german at first, but also because tehy really didn't care about Russia either. You can look at history with your cookie-cutter American high school perspective or you can look at it three dimensionally. That is what I offer. Any other questions/comments/complaints?

    by the way, all the negs from teh russians...i think it only made my rating go down one point? :P i've been negged and repped by way too many mods to get affected by lil mosquito bites like that but its cute that you all have started putting the same comments there and showin gme how childish you are
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Banned George Carlinian's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2004
    Stats: 5'9", 199 lbs
    Posts: 7,823
    BodyPoints: 5324
    Rep Power: 0
    George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) George Carlinian has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit George Carlinian's BodySpace
    George Carlinian is offline
    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    "The Soviet Union made an enormous contribution towards winning WW2 and was one of the Big Three Allies: US, Britain and Russia."

    Agree or disagree?
    Yeah, keep the germans busy while Britain attacks.
    And please don't include the US on the European front. They only joined after the tide had already turned in Europe (both world wars). The European battles were won by the British and French and allies. The US only joined WW2 in 1941 and the first world war right before it ended.
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
    Join Date: Nov 2004
    Location: In the bar
    Posts: 22,954
    BodyPoints: 6378
    Rep Power: 14863
    Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000) Mr Beer has reached the pinnacle! Best possible rank! (+1000000)
    Visit Mr Beer's BodySpace
    Mr Beer is offline
    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    Yeah, keep the germans busy while Britain attacks.
    And please don't include the US on the European front. They only joined after the tide had already turned in Europe (both world wars). The European battles were won by the British and French and allies. The US only joined WW2 in 1941 and the first world war right before it ended.
    I understand the temptation to think Britain basically won the war on it's own, but it's not the case.

    The US kept Britain alive while the Germans were sinking merchant shipping at will. Then they came in and fought the European front, whether or not you want them included, they were.

    Furthermore, it's completely ridiculous to imply the Russians did nothing more than keep the Germans busy. They destroyed entire German armies which would otherwise have been engaged in chopping up the Allies in Normandy and Italy. If that's only keeping the German's busy, you can just as well say Britain kept the Germans busy while the Soviets did the serious business of winning the war.
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

    ScubaStevo: "You're right, I wish I could be Obama."
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Registered User matt555's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2006
    Age: 31
    Stats: 5'9", 170 lbs
    Posts: 682
    BodyPoints: 4407
    Rep Power: 42
    matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) matt555 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Visit matt555's BodySpace
    matt555 is offline
    Originally Posted by bulldog559 View Post
    Eastern front was won by the British because without them Germany would have destroyed Moscow. Everyone knows that.
    No, no, no. In that case, the Eastern front was won by Yugoslavia, because Hitler was forced to delay his attack on CCCP because of the uprising and resistance in Yugoslavia months before the invasion. The Soviets were in deep trouble in the first year of the war next to Moscow, true, but the Germans couldn't possibly win the Eastern front even with their full army stationed there. It seems to me that you don't understand the Red Army's resistance at all. The vast majority of German soldiers in WW2 died at the Eastern front and Stalingrad was the real turning point of the war. Everyone knows that.

    Leafs43: Yes, I've seen the Berlin wall (or the remains of it), but seeing it is not an argument for anti-East Germany propaganda.
    I'm not overweight, I'm undertall
    Reply With Quote

Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Home Store Products Careers Help Contact Us Terms of Use Checkout