Bjj guys i need your help

[IRONWORK]

i have a problem of giveing up my back alot. i am used to wrestleing when being on your back is a no no. so i tend to scramblle. when the guy gets my bak i straighten out my legs so he cant get his hooks in and try to work my way out. ive developed a good rear naked choke defense lol. but after a couple minutes of fighting its usually applied or i scramble out. whats the best way to get to your feet without doing this stupid mistake i do.

[eatsleephate]

You should smack them in the mouth.

Learn to be on your back.

[IRONWORK]

lol im trying bro. but its in practice and i cant really put the whooping on my training partners. im just trying to develope good take down defense. and sub defense. im a good striker.

[eatsleephate]

Exactly- it's practice. Go to your back purposely and get comfortable with it. If you get subbed, big deal. You'll eventually get better.

[IRONWORK]

yeah i will its hard to get used to though. what guard do you prefer standerd high or butterfly?

[eatsleephate]

Well, it depends on my opponent. I'll always try for butterfly first, though. If I can't get anything going with butterfly I'll switch to standard- high gaurd is something I only do on people my weight or below because while I have long legs, I don't have enough flexibility to throw my legs so close to my face for triangles or armbars.

[IRONWORK]

whats the best way to try to get to your feet?

[eatsleephate]

Well, with butterfly you can sweep to mount then standup if you want, which I don't know why you'd want to. It's easier to sweep with butterfly, but it's also easier to be passed- it's really a double edged sword.

[IRONWORK]

yeah i have good takedown defense and a decent gaurd. i have to work on keeping calm. im starting to fight better opponents now and i allways try to keep it standing. but i have to consider my options when i do get mounted what to do. thanks for the help though.

[HardGainer82]

How does straightening your legs stop him from getting the hooks? Sounds like it would make it easier? I'd try to block the space between your knees and elbows and don't let him sneak his hooks in.

[eatsleephate]

Originally Posted by HardGainer82

How does straightening your legs stop him from getting the hooks? Sounds like it would make it easier? I'd try to block the space between your knees and elbows and don't let him sneak his hooks in.

Well, I think he means he flattens to the ground and keeps his hips down so you can't get a foot under him- though, rolling him over and putting your hooks is extremely easy when he doesn't have anything to post with.

[IRONWORK]

if im on my stomach ill hold his hands on the mat with my chest and straighten flat out. its immposible to get them in and works every time. now he wants to get his hands free and forgets about his hooks. then i roll over arch my back when he opens up ill spinn into his guard. hope i made sense.

[IraHays]

You are huge. Just rip their arms out of the sockit.

[HardGainer82]

Makes more sense, but like ESH said, it's a lot easier for him to control you. One of the big things the hooks do in that position is allow him to flatten you out, and you're doing the work for him. That "pinning his hands under your chest" might work pretty well, but it seems like a homemade remedy that's going to get you in trouble. I'd learn the turtle defense where you can prevent the hooks while still maintaining your base and movement.

[eatsleephate]

Originally Posted by HardGainer82

Makes more sense, but like ESH said, it's a lot easier for him to control you. One of the big things the hooks do in that position is allow him to flatten you out, and you're doing the work for him. That "pinning his hands under your chest" might work pretty well, but it seems like a homemade remedy that's going to get you in trouble. I'd learn the turtle defense where you can prevent the hooks while still maintaining your base and movement.

Yep. It's going to lead to problems, especially if you ever put a gi on. Moreover, once people are slippery, pinning your chest to the ground won't do you any good. Learn turtle, deal with being bumped to sidemount, and be comfortable with disadvantageous positions.

[IRONWORK]

ohh yeah definitely homemade lol. it without there hooks they have no leverage i would never deliberately flatten out if they where sunk in. but yeah i have tons more to learn i appreciate the help though guys.ill tell my coach tonight to go over turtle and other defenses tonight thanks guys.

[DangerDan]

Originally Posted by IRONWORK

ohh yeah definitely homemade lol. it without there hooks they have no leverage i would never deliberately flatten out if they where sunk in. but yeah i have tons more to learn i appreciate the help though guys.ill tell my coach tonight to go over turtle and other defenses tonight thanks guys.

http://www.turtledefense.org/index.html


http://lockflow.com/article_view.php?id=1489

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by IRONWORK

i have a problem of giveing up my back alot. i am used to wrestleing when being on your back is a no no. so i tend to scramblle. when the guy gets my bak i straighten out my legs so he cant get his hooks in and try to work my way out. ive developed a good rear naked choke defense lol. but after a couple minutes of fighting its usually applied or i scramble out. whats the best way to get to your feet without doing this stupid mistake i do.

how are you at guardpasses or working from inside guard (working from inside guard is more important if it is for mixed)

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by IRONWORK

whats the best way to try to get to your feet?

Butterfly
or open guard --> feet on hips and push off, you'll either move them away from you or yourself away from them or both

[CutLoss]

if you're not comfortable on your back start pulling guard more

[Ultra_Magnus]

Just don't give up your back, theres always a better solution.

And if you do give it up, roll out of it quickly and transition to guard.

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by IRONWORK

if im on my stomach ill hold his hands on the mat with my chest and straighten flat out. its immposible to get them in and works every time. now he wants to get his hands free and forgets about his hooks. then i roll over arch my back when he opens up ill spinn into his guard. hope i made sense.

I realize that you say this is working for you and so it is difficult to give advice not to get in the habbit of doing it, and I also realize you train at a solid gym so there are probubly good guys to roll with, but I promise if I'm on your back and you flatten out belly down you won't get out from bottom again unless I get bored having top...
also I'm not understanding how thier hands are on your chest if they are looking to RNC you

[AmateurWrestler]

I was never used ot being on my back when I grappled, coming from a wrestling bakground. So, I forced myself to start on my back 90% of the time when I rolled. A lot of it is psychological...wrestlers tend to have a tenacity, about them, and set an intense pace. I've learned to be comfortable anywhere, scramble when I feel it's best, relax and work from my back when I feel it's best. A lot of it, as I have said, is a wrestlers mindset. Expand it.

[DangerDan]

Originally Posted by AmateurWrestler

I was never used ot being on my back when I grappled, coming from a wrestling bakground. So, I forced myself to start on my back 90% of the time when I rolled. A lot of it is psychological...wrestlers tend to have a tenacity, about them, and set an intense pace. I've learned to be comfortable anywhere, scramble when I feel it's best, relax and work from my back when I feel it's best. A lot of it, as I have said, is a wrestlers mindset. Expand it.

Yeah, my instructor said he had the hardest time on his back so he butt scooted and pulled guard forever until his back game was good.

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by HardGainer82

Makes more sense, but like ESH said, it's a lot easier for him to control you. One of the big things the hooks do in that position is allow him to flatten you out, and you're doing the work for him. That "pinning his hands under your chest" might work pretty well, but it seems like a homemade remedy that's going to get you in trouble. I'd learn the turtle defense where you can prevent the hooks while still maintaining your base and movement.

if we are on his back instead of my chest, I activly want him to go for traditional hooks
(also when we are both seated)
anyway this is why I asked the oposter about guardpasses or working from guard, cus sometimes you wind up in thier guard so I'll give a few of the options I have done (that went well) from this possition, he and I have similar strengths in the mma game it seems so hopefully what works for me will go well for him

naturally all of these examples assume tradtional hooks on inside of legs because if he crosses his feet, you wrap/triangle and thrust hips to submit him so don't need to bother with the rest


From having them on my back to crossbody.
Ok so he is going for hooks and rnc, (just going to use sides for example purposes, naturally can switch sides)
left hand defends rnc, normally instead of fighting with hands I will cup my ear in oldschool 'answer the phone' defense, this works better because usually he will move his body slightly to adjust and that will take a hint of pressure off his other side leg, the side of your free arm.
Right arm fishes down between his right ankle and your thing, cuping at his ankle.
Pull that foot of his, towards your face or even better toward the area above your right shoulder and lean forward as you do it
unless you are rolling with BJ Penn or some similar flexability freak he will have to defend this somehow as it is very uncomfortable, almost always he gives up on the RNC as his upper body falls back to protect his hip/hammstring
Left arm is free for offensive movement now, keep the right hand holding that ankle with a thumbless grip. Turn on your ass a bit to your right, reach left arm accross your body to grip the area on his lower thigh right 'above' his knee ideally.
Right leg should be bent at about a 90 degree angle at this point and laying on it's side left leg is going to need to push off the floor or just cross over your right leg depending on your weight/size etc
left arm should help to move his right leg over and you push the right hand up off of his ankle to go over his leg
this is option land, you can overhook his leg (your arm will be midway on his shin so can slide down for anklelock easily) or you can just move his leg out of the way and slide into cross body, the crossbody is very low *near hips* so you will have to slide yourself up

let me post this and put another one up here

[Kane Fan]

Having them on your back to being in thier guard.
Same start, same defence, Right Hand pulls thier leg up (but not as high this time) when they start to lean back at all or pressure from upper body lessens, turn your head to the right and tuck chin and shoulder together to defend just in case he gets antsy
overhook his shin with your now free Left arm and continue turning (after releasing with your Right of course) and you will be in his guard

this works better in heavier divisions, with smaller guys I see potentially bad things happening, but it is the same loss however you are submitted so once they are on your back working for a choke it isn't bad to take a little risk, just dont break ya neck.

this next addon here is more a varietion on grip, but I have had it submit people before, it uses thier shinbone as a lever and digs into a sensitive spot on the calf so it can tap people, but it would make the other options more difficult cus of the difference in grip

you want your forearm along thier shinbone, elbow should be pressed firmly into the very bottom of the calf or just below. cup your hand over thier toes and pull the foot towards you, just pull the foot you want your arm to bend like you are curling a dumbell along a funny plane, you do not want to let the elbow move cus that's the pivot point
if it dosn't tap them it will usually get thier mind off the offensive and on the defense so you can slip out with one of the other moves

anway tell me if that made sence, especially O.Poster

[MMA-JUNKIE]

Turtle to forward roll knee bar!

Sweeeeet

[Ben6485]

when someone gets on ur back, get in the turtle position to stop him from getting in his hooks