Vitamin B-Complex...(and Daily Vitamins)

[RavensFan2k3]

No, not at all. Im having no problems whatsoever.

ok cool...i've been hearing alot about how the saw palmetto in it could cause loss of libido and other problems because of how it inhibits DHT

[koi1214]

Yes! I'll be posting that momentarily. I've found a product only with ACES at a great price.

I use Solaray Antioxidant Muli-plex for my ACES product.

[kerplunk]

Okay, For ACES I have this following product.

SUPER ANTIOXIDANT FORMULA** Softgels



The essential nutrients in our Super Antioxidant Formula are some of the best antioxidants available for fighting free radicals.** Free radicals can be produced from things like car exhaust, smoking, even your own body — plus they contribute to oxidative stress, which can lead to premature aging.** Vitamins A, C, and E and the mineral, Selenium, combat the harmful effects of these free radicals.** As an added bonus, this synergistic formula supports immune system health.** Adults can take one softgel daily with a meal.


Supplement Facts
Serving Size 1 Softgel
Vitamin A 25,000 IU 500%
(as 100% Beta-Carotene)
Vitamin C 500 mg 833%
(as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin E 400 IU 1,333%
(as d-Alpha Tocopherol)
Selenium 50 mcg 71%
(as Selenium Yeast)

Buy 1 Get 2 Free
Only $36.90

Thats 600 Servings

[RavensFan2k3]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/country/co.html

In this b-complex supplement, it has Soy Lecithin. This isnt the same as regular soy that we should avoid due to how it lowers testosterone and increases estrogen is it?

[kerplunk]

Are these substantial doses of ACES?

Vitamin A 25,000 IU 500%
(as 100% Beta-Carotene)
Vitamin C 500 mg 833%
(as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin E 400 IU 1,333%
(as d-Alpha Tocopherol)
Selenium 50 mcg 71%
(as Selenium Yeast)


Also, what Multi-Minerals do you guys have?





<- Will be back @ 12AM - 1230AM EST

[koi1214]

Are these substantial doses of ACES?

Vitamin A 25,000 IU 500%
(as 100% Beta-Carotene)
Vitamin C 500 mg 833%
(as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin E 400 IU 1,333%
(as d-Alpha Tocopherol)
Selenium 50 mcg 71%
(as Selenium Yeast)


Also, what Multi-Minerals do you guys have?





<- Will be back @ 12AM - 1230AM EST

I use CMZ by VPX because dinoiii reccomends it he and also suggest 5 days on and 2 days off with ACES.

[Peter LeDrew]

Are these substantial doses of ACES?

Vitamin A 25,000 IU 500%
(as 100% Beta-Carotene)
Vitamin C 500 mg 833%
(as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin E 400 IU 1,333%
(as d-Alpha Tocopherol)
Selenium 50 mcg 71%
(as Selenium Yeast)


Also, what Multi-Minerals do you guys have?



<- Will be back @ 12AM - 1230AM EST

Personally and I might add most of those up to date on the research, would believe that is a terrible product!

ACES was promoted as an antioxidant supplement over 10 years ago and has long been proven a poor selection and possibly worse.

High doses of one, albeit a synthetic carotenoid beta-carotene has years ago been proven a bad idea... not only reducing serum levels of other carotenoids it has been shown to dramatically increase cancer in smokers as one example.

http://www.yourhealthbase.com/beta_carotene.htm

J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Jul;16(7):385-97. Links
Beta-carotene breakdown products may impair mitochondrial functions--potential side effects of high-dose beta-carotene supplementation.Siems W, Wiswedel I, Salerno C, Crif? C, Augustin W, Schild L, Langhans CD, Sommerburg O.
Loges-School for Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, D-38667 Bad Harzburg, Germany. werner.siems@loges-schule.de

Beta-carotene (BC) and other carotenoids are mainly considered as belonging to the group of micronutrients. As they are contained in fruit and vegetables and thus part of human diet, a regular low-dose intake from natural sources is normally assured. In the last decade high-dose supplementation with synthetic carotenoids has been used successfully in the treatment of diseases believed to be associated with oxidative stress. However, in a few clinical studies harmful effects have been observed as well, e.g., a higher incidence of lung cancer after BC was given in high doses to smokers. Our studies aim at shedding light on the causal mechanisms of the known side effects that we have investigated. Possibilities of preventing them are discussed. Obviously, on certain conditions of high-dose carotenoid supplementation, both the antioxidant and prooxidant reactions may arise. Carotenoid breakdown products (CBP) including very reactive aldehydes and epoxides are formed during oxidative attack in the course of antioxidative action. Carotenoid breakdown products inhibit state 3 respiration of isolated rat liver mitochondria at concentrations between 0.5 and 20 microM. In vivo stimulated neutrophils might represent an important source for the generation of CBP, and the lung might be a critical organ in CBP formation. The inhibition of mitochondrial state 3 respiration by CBP is accompanied by a reduced content of protein sulfhydryl groups, decreasing glutathione levels and redox state, and also elevated accumulation of malondialdehyde. Changes in mitochondrial membrane potential favour functional deterioration of the adenine nucleotide translocator (ANT). The findings reflect a basic mechanism of the side effects of BC supplementation in circumstances of severe oxidative stress induced by CBP representing a class of lipid oxidation products. We are striving for safe conditions of carotenoid supplementation in order to protect patients in need of this kind of medical treatment from possible side effects, such as unwanted prooxidative reactions.


Synthetic Beta-carotene in high doses may also impair Lycopene and other important carotenoids plasma status... Ortho Core adds natural carotenoids with decent 10,000iu beta-carotene with 10mg lycopene and 6.8mg lutein as well as alpha carotene and others.


I wish you would have read my posts on getting a gamma-rich source of Vit.E with a full complement of E isomers, including gamma, alpha, beta and delta tocopherols and tocotrienols. This alpha source taken regularly with lead to dramatically reduced levels of other tocopherols and the very important gamma form which is actually the most common tocopherol found in the average diet.

Balance is very crucial with Vitamin E and unlike a diet where you would get many sources and types of E compounds, throwing a pill of one E isomer into the mix will create an artificial imbalance quite quickly and worse of all, it can take years to improve once it has been created.

That selenium source is average and there are many better esp. the superior Se-methylselenocysteine which has been shown to be both less toxic and more potent at supporting normal cell growth and development.

I don't understand what you're trying to do here... taking the ACES and then B's and then a multi mineral?
You can buy a great multi like Ortho Core which does this better (mixed natural source, well dosed carotenoids in balance/ Natural gamma rich tocopherols and tocotrienols E complex) , quality mineral forms and adds other benefits. You can also dose the multi throughout the day with meals, etc...

[dinoiii]

I use CMZ by VPX because dinoiii reccomends it he and also suggest 5 days on and 2 days off with ACES.

Question is why does he recommend such a protocol?

And does the 5 on, 2 off apply to the Vit C and Selenium???




D_

[koi1214]

Question is why does he recommend such a protocol?

And does the 5 on, 2 off apply to the Vit C and Selenium???




D_

dinoiii
No it does not apply to Vit C and not sure about Selenium(I think yes it does apply).Also in regard to CMZ I believe you suggest it because the minerals in CMZ are what we lack.I also believe with Vitamin C it should be taking in extra doses of 500mg a day servings with the
Vit B complex at meal time but do not go over 4000mg a day.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

Are these substantial doses of ACES?

Vitamin A 25,000 IU 500%
(as 100% Beta-Carotene)
Vitamin C 500 mg 833%
(as Ascorbic Acid)
Vitamin E 400 IU 1,333%
(as d-Alpha Tocopherol)
Selenium 50 mcg 71%
(as Selenium Yeast)


Also, what Multi-Minerals do you guys have?





<- Will be back @ 12AM - 1230AM EST

vitamin E source is ****ty. C is recommended at several doses throughout the day so you would still need a sole vit. c supplement anyway.

[koi1214]

vitamin E source is ****ty. C is recommended at several doses throughout the day so you would still need a sole vit. c supplement anyway.

What about Solaray Antioxidant Multiplex?

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

What about Solaray Antioxidant Multiplex?

Keep in mind any suggestions I'm giving about dosing in this thread are made upon the assumption you are trying to follow the guidelines laid out in dinoiii's MVI's suck article. My comments on the forms of these vitamins come from reading his material along with research I've done of my own prerogative particularly my comments on vitamin E.

Again if your trying to dose .5g of vitamin C several times throughout the day I would not recommend taking this product repeatedly as it has a daily dose of a,e and selenium. Again like most mainstream products the E comes from alpha-tocopherol which appears to be counter productive to what is trying to be accomplished by supplementing E in the first place.

[kerplunk]

Keep in mind any suggestions I'm giving about dosing in this thread are made upon the assumption you are trying to follow the guidelines laid out in dinoiii's MVI's suck article. My comments on the forms of these vitamins come from reading his material along with research I've done of my own prerogative particularly my comments on vitamin E.

Again if your trying to dose .5g of vitamin C several times throughout the day I would not recommend taking this product repeatedly as it has a daily dose of a,e and selenium. Again like most mainstream products the E comes from alpha-tocopherol which appears to be counter productive to what is trying to be accomplished by supplementing E in the first place.

Hmmm, and this is why im asking, to learn guys!

Anyway, I currently have a Vit C supplement that is 1000mg a pill. I'd say two of them a day would be fine. Correct?

Also, Im planning on supplementing an ACES (or something similar) and a Vit-B. If my budget has room for a multi-mineral than maybe that can be worked in. Basically, I want to keep my health a priority and make sure I can be at top health conditions at all times.

AOR Ortho-Care is not fitting my budget. Way too expensive.

[kerplunk]

Question is why does he recommend such a protocol?

And does the 5 on, 2 off apply to the Vit C and Selenium???




D_

Teach us. Please

[kerplunk]

Personally and I might add most of those up to date on the research, would believe that is a terrible product!

ACES was promoted as an antioxidant supplement over 10 years ago and has long been proven a poor selection and possibly worse.

High doses of one, albeit a synthetic carotenoid beta-carotene has years ago been proven a bad idea... not only reducing serum levels of other carotenoids it has been shown to dramatically increase cancer in smokers as one example.

http://www.yourhealthbase.com/beta_carotene.htm

J Nutr Biochem. 2005 Jul;16(7):385-97. Links
Beta-carotene breakdown products may impair mitochondrial functions--potential side effects of high-dose beta-carotene supplementation.Siems W, Wiswedel I, Salerno C, Crif? C, Augustin W, Schild L, Langhans CD, Sommerburg O.
Loges-School for Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation, D-38667 Bad Harzburg, Germany. werner.siems@loges-schule.de

Beta-carotene (BC) and other carotenoids are mainly considered as belonging to the group of micronutrients. As they are contained in fruit and vegetables and thus part of human diet, a regular low-dose intake from natural sources is normally assured. In the last decade high-dose supplementation with synthetic carotenoids has been used successfully in the treatment of diseases believed to be associated with oxidative stress. However, in a few clinical studies harmful effects have been observed as well, e.g., a higher incidence of lung cancer after BC was given in high doses to smokers. Our studies aim at shedding light on the causal mechanisms of the known side effects that we have investigated. Possibilities of preventing them are discussed. Obviously, on certain conditions of high-dose carotenoid supplementation, both the antioxidant and prooxidant reactions may arise. Carotenoid breakdown products (CBP) including very reactive aldehydes and epoxides are formed during oxidative attack in the course of antioxidative action. Carotenoid breakdown products inhibit state 3 respiration of isolated rat liver mitochondria at concentrations between 0.5 and 20 microM. In vivo stimulated neutrophils might represent an important source for the generation of CBP, and the lung might be a critical organ in CBP formation. The inhibition of mitochondrial state 3 respiration by CBP is accompanied by a reduced content of protein sulfhydryl groups, decreasing glutathione levels and redox state, and also elevated accumulation of malondialdehyde. Changes in mitochondrial membrane potential favour functional deterioration of the adenine nucleotide translocator (ANT). The findings reflect a basic mechanism of the side effects of BC supplementation in circumstances of severe oxidative stress induced by CBP representing a class of lipid oxidation products. We are striving for safe conditions of carotenoid supplementation in order to protect patients in need of this kind of medical treatment from possible side effects, such as unwanted prooxidative reactions.


Synthetic Beta-carotene in high doses may also impair Lycopene and other important carotenoids plasma status... Ortho Core adds natural carotenoids with decent 10,000iu beta-carotene with 10mg lycopene and 6.8mg lutein as well as alpha carotene and others.


I wish you would have read my posts on getting a gamma-rich source of Vit.E with a full complement of E isomers, including gamma, alpha, beta and delta tocopherols and tocotrienols. This alpha source taken regularly with lead to dramatically reduced levels of other tocopherols and the very important gamma form which is actually the most common tocopherol found in the average diet.

Balance is very crucial with Vitamin E and unlike a diet where you would get many sources and types of E compounds, throwing a pill of one E isomer into the mix will create an artificial imbalance quite quickly and worse of all, it can take years to improve once it has been created.

That selenium source is average and there are many better esp. the superior Se-methylselenocysteine which has been shown to be both less toxic and more potent at supporting normal cell growth and development.

I don't understand what you're trying to do here... taking the ACES and then B's and then a multi mineral?
You can buy a great multi like Ortho Core which does this better (mixed natural source, well dosed carotenoids in balance/ Natural gamma rich tocopherols and tocotrienols E complex) , quality mineral forms and adds other benefits. You can also dose the multi throughout the day with meals, etc...

This is suprising as a lot of multis are using BC as their source of Vit A. I need to look into the Vit E research a little more and the seleniu, is a good point and I like your suggestion a lot.

What Im trying to do is basically dose the Vit-B's throughout the day with meals instead of just taking it all at once with a meal. I find that this will be optimal and hopefully prove to be a better choice.

I cant afford Otho-Core

[koi1214]

Keep in mind any suggestions I'm giving about dosing in this thread are made upon the assumption you are trying to follow the guidelines laid out in dinoiii's MVI's suck article. My comments on the forms of these vitamins come from reading his material along with research I've done of my own prerogative particularly my comments on vitamin E.

Again if your trying to dose .5g of vitamin C several times throughout the day I would not recommend taking this product repeatedly as it has a daily dose of a,e and selenium. Again like most mainstream products the E comes from alpha-tocopherol which appears to be counter productive to what is trying to be accomplished by supplementing E in the first place.

Thank you and reps.I will purchass everything seperately after I finish the Solaray formula.I already use 500mg Vit C.Yes I am following dinoiii advice.What would you suggest for a good Vit E product?


Kerplunk sorry for the hijack bro.

[kerplunk]

Kerplunk sorry for the hijack bro.

Dude, dont worry about it. We are all here to learn! Everyone gets a chance.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

Hmmm, and this is why im asking, to learn guys!

Anyway, I currently have a Vit C supplement that is 1000mg a pill. I'd say two of them a day would be fine. Correct?

Also, Im planning on supplementing an ACES (or something similar) and a Vit-B. If my budget has room for a multi-mineral than maybe that can be worked in. Basically, I want to keep my health a priority and make sure I can be at top health conditions at all times.

AOR Ortho-Care is not fitting my budget. Way too expensive.

I would say vitamin B becomes much more important depending on your diet. When you cut out grains(ie keto) you really need to up the supplementation. I would think 3 times a day on a regular diet would be fine but it would be good to get dinoiii's official opinion.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

This is suprising as a lot of multis are using BC as their source of Vit A. I need to look into the Vit E research a little more and the seleniu, is a good point and I like your suggestion a lot.

What Im trying to do is basically dose the Vit-B's throughout the day with meals instead of just taking it all at once with a meal. I find that this will be optimal and hopefully prove to be a better choice.

I cant afford Otho-Core

and most companies use that ****ty source of vit E hes talking about. I assume because it is the cheapest form however I am not sure. I started a thread about it in the science section last night after reading a few things.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

Thank you and reps.I will purchass everything seperately after I finish the Solaray formula.I already use 500mg Vit C.Yes I am following dinoiii advice.What would you suggest for a good Vit E product?


Kerplunk sorry for the hijack bro.

Total E by AOR looks great but expensive. Look for one that doesn't have alpha tocopherol as the sole source. E has four tocopherols and four tocotrienols so if you can find a product that includes all it is obviously the best choice.


I am currently using CMZ for my multimineral and have a pretty decent stash of it but once I run out I am going to look at ZMK as it is a buck or two more expensive but would cover the selenium recommendation as well.

[koi1214]

Dude, dont worry about it. We are all here to learn! Everyone gets a chance.

Check your PM.

[koi1214]

Total E by AOR looks great but expensive. Look for one that doesn't have alpha tocopherol as the sole source. E has four tocopherols and four tocotrienols so if you can find a product that includes all it is obviously the best choice.


I am currently using CMZ for my multimineral and have a pretty decent stash of it but once I run out I am going to look at ZMK as it is a buck or two more expensive but would cover the selenium recommendation as well.

Thanks.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

I feel you on the budget strain though. Just looking at complete products makes my wallet hurt sometimes

[kerplunk]

Total E by AOR looks great but expensive. Look for one that doesn't have alpha tocopherol as the sole source. E has four tocopherols and four tocotrienols so if you can find a product that includes all it is obviously the best choice.


I am currently using CMZ for my multimineral and have a pretty decent stash of it but once I run out I am going to look at ZMK as it is a buck or two more expensive but would cover the selenium recommendation as well.

everything by AOR looks great. But it is pricey for me, a 17yr old. I had a sample of ZMK and MVP and ill flat out say, those were the only multis I could actually "feel" working. That entire day was great, felt great, could think clear. Loved them. Then again, they were pricey as can be.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

Thanks.

hope ive been of some help. I know I'm just parroting alot of information however I've started to look at some of the studies and research on my own and am really starting to see why a lot of these suggestions make sense. I figure I may as well start figuring it out now if I plan on making a living making recommendations in this field

[kerplunk]

hope ive been of some help. I know I'm just parroting alot of information however I've started to look at some of the studies and research on my own and am really starting to see why a lot of these suggestions make sense. I figure I may as well start figuring it out now if I plan on making a living making recommendations in this field

Off-Topic, but are you making a career into this field? As what?

[koi1214]

hope ive been of some help. I know I'm just parroting alot of information however I've started to look at some of the studies and research on my own and am really starting to see why a lot of these suggestions make sense. I figure I may as well start figuring it out now if I plan on making a living making recommendations in this field

You have been a great help bro.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

everything by AOR looks great. But it is pricey for me, a 17yr old. I had a sample of ZMK and MVP and ill flat out say, those were the only multis I could actually "feel" working. That entire day was great, felt great, could think clear. Loved them. Then again, they were pricey as can be.

I know. I have a good amount of financially freedom for supplements in summer but as soon as schools back in session Im broke as can be.

[kerplunk]

I know. I have a good amount of financially freedom for supplements in summer but as soon as schools back in session Im broke as can be.

I've decided to put one weeks paycheck aside of my summer earnings for supps. So thats only like 1/12th of my earning.

[Cable Curling CincoUno]

Off-Topic, but are you making a career into this field? As what?

I am currently in the process of applying to Applied Human Nutrition at an accredited school that if I take all the right steps allows me to become an RD at the end of my four year term. It kind of stinks because I could be heading into my fourth and final year however it took me 3 years after high school to find my passion and I hope this is it so I'm just getting started.