Plastic Makes Provocation

[Beklet]

I admit to hating these programmes too.

Best one I saw on cable was Body Spectacular about a bunch of ordinary gym-goers preparing for a bodybuilding contest.

As for blaming anyone - I'm chubby because I hate cardio and like cheese

That's entirely my fault, and I accept that.

I just need to learn to make cardio bearable and do more of it so I can still eat cheese

[doncarlin]

I don't want to turn this thread into a fat-bash. There are plenty of fat (or formerly-fat) folks here who are making positive changes to their livestyles.

But it's open season on the lazy

I get a kick out of scanning the personal ads, where all these paunchy middle-aged men describe themselves as "athletic" because they golf or play baseball once a month. If they're athletic according to society, how would you describe a guy like Timberwolf

snow is all I have and it's still better than 99% of what's out there. The other 1% I can rent on dvd.

Great original post. Yeah, the media coddles us, almost breastfeeds us. I followed the mainstream media for weight loss "advice" for years, lost only time. Most of the stuff out there tells you its not your fault, everything is fine.

Accepting responsibility for myself was the most empowering moves I ever made. It was very rewarding, as one can see on my BB profile.

I don't watch TV either, except maybe the History Channel, Discovery, or Animal Planet.

[Wayne Evans]

Exactly........except in the older days it was not uncommon to find families with 5 or more children in a blue collar environment. The funny thing was that even if the family was poor they still had pride. They taught their children morals and self respect. They taught them a good work ethic and made sure that they had an oportunity for a decent education. Even if their house wasn't great, it was always maintained and clean.

So, in that respect I have to disagree. The problem is that somewhere along the line the chain has been broken

I may get grief from some here but they likely did not 'spare the rod to spoil the child'.
They grew up working hard and learning the very basics that you've already stated.
With more of the 'both parents working' syndrome there is neglect in child rearing and the public education system is expected to babysit.

OK....back to topic.....didn't mean to hijack here.

[Guinness42]

I may get grief from some here but they likely did not 'spare the rod to spoil the child'.
They grew up working hard and learning the very basics that you've already stated.
With more of the 'both parents working' syndrome there is neglect in child rearing and the public education system is expected to babysit.

OK....back to topic.....didn't mean to hijack here.

Ditto!!

Sorry about the hijack Kimsquit

[kimsquit]

Exactly........except in the older days it was not uncommon to find families with 5 or more children in a blue collar environment. The funny thing was that even if the family was poor they still had pride. They taught their children morals and self respect. They taught them a good work ethic and made sure that they had an oportunity for a decent education. Even if their house wasn't great, it was always maintained and clean.

So, in that respect I have to disagree. The problem is that somewhere along the line the chain has been broken

I blame the hippies


seriously


up until the late 1960's, the social structure was such that people accepted the concept of delayed gratification as the natural order of things. You worked for what you wanted, you planned for your future and you accepted responsibility for your choices.

Then along came the hippies and their message that everyone is free to do whatever they want, whenever they want and no one has to pay the bill.

The little bastards were freeloading off the work ethic of the previous generation and when their time came to contribute (in Vietnam, in corporate America, in factories across the country) they said "not me, man" and ran away to communes or stayed in school to earn doctorates in sociology.

Then eventually they got jobs as guidance counsellors, psychologists, social scientists ( ), writers, directors and artists where they sold the public that same message: no one has to pay the bill

Except now we're socially bankrupt because what the hippies didn't stop to consider, is that society can't live off the ethical and moral investments of the WW2 generation forever.

Someone has to pay the bill.

[Wayne Evans]

I blame the hippies


seriously


up until the late 1960's, the social structure was such that people accepted the concept of delayed gratification as the natural order of things. You worked for what you wanted, you planned for your future and you accepted responsibility for your choices.

Then along came the hippies and their message that everyone is free to do whatever they want, whenever they want and no one has to pay the bill.

The little bastards were freeloading off the work ethic of the previous generation and when their time came to contribute (in Vietnam, in corporate America, in factories across the country) they said "not me, man" and ran away to communes or stayed in school to earn doctorates in sociology.

Then eventually they got jobs as guidance counsellors, psychologists, social scientists ( ), writers, directors and artists where they sold the public that same message: no one has to pay the bill

Except now we're socially bankrupt because what the hippies didn't stop to consider, is that society can't live off the ethical and moral investments of the WW2 generation forever.

Someone has to pay the bill.

Well....true, given your definition of 'hippie'.
When I got out of the service I grew my hair long (my overt way of rebelling against a shaved head and 4 years of hell), played in bands, went to 4 years of college (music/geology major), always had a job and no one ever paid my way through any of my challenges in life.

I wholeheartedly agree that 'hippie' attitude (as you define it) wreaked of ignorance, absurd ideals that have nothing to do with the real world, laziness, blaming ones' own irresponsibilities on someone else or their environement and even some cowardice along with the gems that you already noted.
I never hung out with the ilk you refer to.
The 'world owes me a living' attitude is a good way to get me to say things I could easily regret.<grin>

Kimsquit....this is 'pandoras' post'....so to speak.

Later all.....

[Guinness42]

I blame the hippies


seriously


up until the late 1960's, the social structure was such that people accepted the concept of delayed gratification as the natural order of things. You worked for what you wanted, you planned for your future and you accepted responsibility for your choices.

Then along came the hippies and their message that everyone is free to do whatever they want, whenever they want and no one has to pay the bill.

The little bastards were freeloading off the work ethic of the previous generation and when their time came to contribute (in Vietnam, in corporate America, in factories across the country) they said "not me, man" and ran away to communes or stayed in school to earn doctorates in sociology.

Then eventually they got jobs as guidance counsellors, psychologists, social scientists ( ), writers, directors and artists where they sold the public that same message: no one has to pay the bill

Except now we're socially bankrupt because what the hippies didn't stop to consider, is that society can't live off the ethical and moral investments of the WW2 generation forever.

Someone has to pay the bill.

Man you hit all the right notes. You should run for President, lol...seriously.

Our politicians are all a bunch of crooked gutless bastards who are a big part of the problem. But there I go hijacking again. Sorry.

[kimsquit]

Kimsquit....this is 'pandoras' post'....so to speak.

Really? I think we're being very diplomatic compared to the female bodybuilder thread where the ladies are howling about cutting out women's tongues

Man you hit all the right notes. You should run for President, lol...seriously.

*lol* thanks man but between being Canadian and having way too many skeletons in my closet, I'd never pass the media sniff test

[Guinness42]

Really? I think we're being very diplomatic compared to the female bodybuilder thread where the ladies are howling about cutting out women's tongues


*lol* thanks man but between being Canadian and having way too many skeletons in my closet, I'd never pass the media sniff test

I'm with you on the skeletons, but the the nationality situation didn't stop Arnold

[Wayne Evans]

Really? I think we're being very diplomatic compared to the female bodybuilder thread where the ladies are howling about cutting out women's tongues


*lol* thanks man but between being Canadian and having way too many skeletons in my closet, I'd never pass the media sniff test

Oh....I agree.
Maybe I didn't communicate clearly.
My thought was this post (which I enjoy discussing) has so many peripheral aspects of your original post that piss me off too I was kind of apologizing if I strayed off topic with any of my responses.
That was my point.

Sorry if my English got bad.

[Mark1T]

Hey Chris, I lol'ed at the "cakehole" comment. That was just too funny

[Bando]

I'm not sure what, if anything I can or should add here except that, as long as it doesn't affect me, force food down my throat or close down my gym I really don't care what anyone else does in life.

I mean that with exasperation and "Lavo manus meas", as Pontius Pilate said. You can lead a horse to water... y'all know the rest.

If people want to stuff their faces and sit on their flat fat asses, be my guest. I can't stop you. \/\/

The one and only thing that chaps my ass is that I've been dieting and exercising for years, and I can't get to my goal with all these ****ing hormonal issues. And most of these fat unhealthy people would have no problem getting in shape by just "exercising" restraint.

It's funny I was walking out of store in my workout clothes today after I had a tough w/o and run today. I saw this fella walking out - probably 350 in a wifebeater with his gut swinging like a bowl of jello. I thought "man am I just doing this so my taxes can support him in few years?" After all, we'll live and work longer and inevitably foot the bill for their health habits.

[Guinness42]

It's funny I was walking out of store in my workout clothes today after I had a tough w/o and run today. I saw this fella walking out - probably 350 in a wifebeater with his gut swinging like a bowl of jello. I thought "man am I just doing this so my taxes can support him in few years?" After all, we'll live and work longer and inevitably foot the bill for their health habits.

yeah and the same guy will be bumping into you in the store soon in his government supplied scooter and parking in a handicap spot.

[mtxpert]

Damn it, I was fat! Hell I'm still fat but the laziness of lifelong obese people just kills me. I just got into a "discussion" with a person that joined another forum I'm on is supposed to help with obesity. They asked about some type of surgery and I suggested eating right and exercising and that they could lose weight like me. Nope too busy to bother with counting calories, easier to get the surgery.

::shrug::
Linky to this discussion
http://www.obesitydiscussion.com/for...html#post21346

[Coco9]

I admit to hating these programmes too.

Best one I saw on cable was Body Spectacular about a bunch of ordinary gym-goers preparing for a bodybuilding contest.

As for blaming anyone - I'm chubby because I hate cardio and like cheese

That's entirely my fault, and I accept that.

I just need to learn to make cardio bearable and do more of it so I can still eat cheese

Adapt the "Anabolic Solution" diet and you get to eat all the cheese you want while staying lean

[vmpolesov]

That's a real bummer. I hate to see people turning to surgery unless they have a serious life-threatening problem, like an endocrine disorder that is going to make normal weight loss impractical, and they are in a life or death situation with their weight. Surgery has risks and potential complications.

[vmpolesov]

You'll hear them say "my car ran out of gas" instead of "I forgot to put gas in the car". Those statements reflect two very different attitudes

It made me remember this term 'locus of control' from PSYCH 101

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

[wulf88]

This is a funny post. It is also not just people who are fat and lazy looking for an easy fix. What about all the people who get breast implants, face lifts...to acheive a certain image? Hell I went to my 20 yr HS reunion last year, and was WTF, when did some of the women get those?

[gbg]

During yesterday's post-workout cardio, the television program Plastic Makes Perfect aired. I don't watch a lot of television anymore - in fact I cancelled my cable - and this particular homage to self-indulgent laziness was excellent incentive to remain tv-free.

Big noses, barn door ears, lopsided boobs...I agree that no diet or exercise is going alter those. But the women interviewed weren't looking to change these bodyparts, instead they were spending $5,000.00 or more on liposuction, chin lifts and tummy tucks.

One particular woman stands out: she was at least 60 pounds overweight and wanted her double chin removed because "it made her look fat". The sheer obtuseness in that statement left me wanting to yell "then maybe you should have stopped shoveling food into your cakehole, you pisspoor excuse for an adult!" at the television screen.

A parade of people danced across the program, all claiming that situps didn't make the fat go away, that diets didn't work and that they were down to their "last resort": the plastic surgeon. Then there was the inevitable "sociologist" affirming for them all that their situation was the media's fault.

I think what really galls me about these people - regardless of gender - is their determination to never, ever, recognize causality and to never accept any responsibility for their current condition. They are the people you see standing by the side of the highway with their car out of gas and a puzzled look on their face: unwilling to comprehend the concept of "Action A = Result B" and possessing no interest whatsoever in applying a little forethought to what they are doing or about to do.

You'll hear them say "my car ran out of gas" instead of "I forgot to put gas in the car". Those statements reflect two very different attitudes and the former is the one that natural selection should be weeding out of the gene pool. Instead we celebrate and enable it, rendering us a society of where the majority of people remain in a state of permanent childhood.

I don't know if I'm an anachronism or just a social misfit but when I make a mess of things in my life, I say "well that wasn't very smart of me" and adjust my behaviour accordingly. I don't blame my parents, my food ( ) or scratch my head at the mystery of it all.

I feel ya 100%!!!! don't waist your time trying to figure them out.
I see this type of behavior at work doing rehab with the chronic pain pt's,some of them will do whatever it takes to get well they take the ball and run with it with others you find yourself saying the same things over and over and over......they think somehow a little angel will magically appear and tap them with her wand and make them well.
"but, can't the Dr. prescribe me something" but,I don't have the time,the room,blah,blah,blah,
talk about excuses,my compassion?? let's just say my well is presently empty.

[Forced]

first, a big-ass +1.

as far as pig-chin Penelope is concerned, ask my wife, she'll tell you that's the kind of thing that gets me SCREAMING at the TV...uh...you LOOK fat because you ARE fat. I guess not having multiple chins will take away from that paunch and those 26" "guns"?

as far as these other people are concerned, they're idiots becuase-

1). sit ups aren't really an abdominal exercise, they work the abducters in your legs more
2). they probably think- as most people in this position do, that doing a few sit-ups a couple times a week means you can go a fast-food gorge fest
3). they don't understand, nor do they want to take the time to learn, that a diet isn't something you do to lose weight, it's how you eat and nourish your body.

The truly sad thing is that <1% of these people will ever put any real effort into being fit because they're just too damn lazy.

Hmmmmm .. makes me thing of my grandmother. She also had 20 inch guns. Problem is that when she waved us goodbye, so did her tricep.

Hellava thing to behold.

[Skidmarx]

Problem is that when she waved us goodbye, so did her tricep.

Hellava thing to behold.

Haha. Like a flag waving in the breeze.

[Tallgntlmn]

What about all the people who get breast implants...to acheive a certain image?

A very good friend of mine had that done. She did it for multiple reasons but one big one was confidence. She is like 5'11" and went from A to C. She went from being a woman of little confidence to one who feels she can tackle the world. This is not a change she could have made on her own. All the hours in the world in the gym would not have given her that. She still spends hours in the gym to keep in shape. In a case like that, if it makes that much of a difference psychologically then it could be worth it.

That is not the same as some lazy person choosing surgery over the gym and good nutrition. I have to think about the amount of money spent on these surgeries and how that could be better spent on trainers and nutritionists before going so far as surgery. It's a shame that cannot or will not happen. I imagine the pain from the surgery is a lot more severe than what the pain from proper training and nutrition would be.

Wouldn't it be better if this type of surgery were treated like sex change surgery? Where they have to go through a period of time before it happens? I think in most cases, unless their life is in serious danger, that some period of time should be required for training and nutrition. If it does not work at that point, at least they would potentially be educated about proper nutrition for their new situation.

[wulf88]

No offense, but if getting bigger breasts gave her that much confidence, then there are some underlying problems. Oh well, to each their own.

[bhaputi]

No offense, but if getting bigger breasts gave her that much confidence, then there are some underlying problems. Oh well, to each their own.

No offense, but as a male, how would you know? Like it or not, women are judged on physical beauty, with breast size being part of it. As a male, I doubt either of us can truly comment on the "underlying problems" dictating this.


Plus, face it, if men walked around naked all the time (gawd, imagine WalMart ), the small-peckered amongst us would fuel a complete industry of penile-enhancement surgeries......

[ALBPM]

LOL!!!!!!
Fecking Hippies...........

I didn't know there were any Hippies left. I thought they either self destructed through apathy and drugs or either turned into the worst case scenario Corporate monsters after finally waking up to a good dose of reality.

These days we have what I call - "Liberal Stupidfeckers" - they wear floppy hats and birkenstocks. They drive Subarus or beat up volvos 10-20 mph under the speed limit and blame all their frigging problems on everybody/everything other than themselves and they won't take responsibility for their kids behavior.

[Tallgntlmn]

No offense, but if getting bigger breasts gave her that much confidence, then there are some underlying problems.

Knowing her, she would admit to having issues with self esteem. I have to admit, until she told me, I wouldn't have had a clue that it was ever done. I will also say, she looks proportionate to her height. It is not what you might be imagining from the pr0n industry.

But again, the results from that surgery are not something that someone can achieve in the gym or via lifestyle change. The only equal for us guys is penile enlargement. Tricep or ab implants are not the same since those can be attained by hard work and diet. Stomach stapling, liposuction, or other surgery for obesity is something that could be potentially avoided with that lifestyle change. The results of the obesity surgeries can be obtained by non-surgical means.

Everyone has things done for different reasons. I have to, one day, have surgery to fix a deviated septum. Now I can also choose, while they are doing that, to have some sort of rhinoplasty done and it would be covered by insurance. The question is, should I? That answer, I don't have. But if I were to do that, it would be a completely vain thing to do and not required.

[Guinness42]

LOL!!!!!!
Fecking Hippies...........

I didn't know there were any Hippies left. I thought they either self destructed through apathy and drugs or either turned into the worst case scenario Corporate monsters after finally waking up to a good dose of reality.

These days we have what I call - "Liberal Stupidfeckers" - they wear floppy hats and birkenstocks. They drive Subarus or beat up volvos 10-20 mph under the speed limit and blame all their frigging problems on everybody/everything other than themselves and they won't take responsibility for their kids behavior.

Classic

I would love to use this as my sig.

[Spiceygamble]

Freud & cable...
two thing I neither invite into my life, nor need.
I own my life... i wish others did, too.

...I'm just say'n...

[kimsquit]

It made me remember this term 'locus of control' from PSYCH 101

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_of_control

IMO, this quote from Sydney J. Harris says it all:

We have not passed that subtle line between childhood and adulthood until we move from the passive voice to the active voice -- that is, until we stop saying "It got lost," and say "I lost it."

I didn't know there were any Hippies left. I thought they either self destructed through apathy and drugs or either turned into the worst case scenario Corporate monsters after finally waking up to a good dose of reality.

These days we have what I call - "Liberal Stupidfeckers" - they wear floppy hats and birkenstocks. They drive Subarus or beat up volvos 10-20 mph under the speed limit and blame all their frigging problems on everybody/everything other than themselves and they won't take responsibility for their kids behavior.

"Liberal Stupidfeckers" aka the children of hippies

[wulf88]

No offense, but as a male, how would you know? Like it or not, women are judged on physical beauty, with breast size being part of it. As a male, I doubt either of us can truly comment on the "underlying problems" dictating this.


Plus, face it, if men walked around naked all the time (gawd, imagine WalMart ), the small-peckered amongst us would fuel a complete industry of penile-enhancement surgeries......

None taken. I agree with what you are saying, I do not know what it is like. But, like I said before to each his own.