How to get those devistating kicks?

[Tough_Lil_Girl]

Hey all I am back. 8D
So here is my question, when I was in TKD I had great kicks. Now, where I study the concentration is on upper body and rolling (ew I know its necessary it's just gross) the kicks aren't good at all. I have tried doing 50 kicks a day each leg yadda yadda, bag work, balance work, none of it is working as effectively as I would like. And I think it all boils down to this, good kicks come from the hips and that snapping motion right? How do I make THAT stronger? Because after 4-5 miles on the elliptical a day my legs are strong. But my hips are weak.
ADVICE? PLEASE? 8< Bestow upon me your knowrage....

[TheClips]

I know that doing lots of ab work also helps to target your hip flexors, especially leg raises and doing crunches with your feet pinned under something.

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by Tough_Lil_Girl

Hey all I am back. 8D
So here is my question, when I was in TKD I had great kicks. Now, where I study the concentration is on upper body and rolling (ew I know its necessary it's just gross) the kicks aren't good at all. I have tried doing 50 kicks a day each leg yadda yadda, bag work, balance work, none of it is working as effectively as I would like. And I think it all boils down to this, good kicks come from the hips and that snapping motion right? How do I make THAT stronger? Because after 4-5 miles on the elliptical a day my legs are strong. But my hips are weak.
ADVICE? PLEASE? 8< Bestow upon me your knowrage....

the only thing that makes kicks stronger is kicking more.50 kicks a day not working? do 100, each leg AFTER your session.

turn on the ball of your foot, and try to get the toes of your supporting foot pointing in the OPPOSITE direction to your target. obviously this is easier on kicks like roundhouses, but you get the idea. very little in a kick is to do with muscle, its about kinetic linkage. you get the body to rotate in a certain way, and the power will be there, and will be transfered to the ball of the foot/shin/heel/wherever.

its all in the hip, get the hip PAST the target, and use the resulting WHIP form the muscles in the leg to generate the force. dont strain it. all that will happen is the muscles will flex, and reduce speed.

also; counterbalance!!! you MUST have another part of your body balancing across the apex of your body in order to create a comfortable kick. just throwing your leg out wont do anything, but leaning back as you do it will create more force than you are aware of.

[tabloid]

technique is very difficult to describe without demonstrating.

watch the feet

[Maine]

Best thing to do is to slow your kicks right down and look at your technique, make sure you're pivoting on your supporting leg, keeping it straight and putting your hips into it.

[adoniscomplex]

Originally Posted by Tough_Lil_Girl

Hey all I am back. 8D
So here is my question, when I was in TKD I had great kicks. Now, where I study the concentration is on upper body and rolling (ew I know its necessary it's just gross) the kicks aren't good at all. I have tried doing 50 kicks a day each leg yadda yadda, bag work, balance work, none of it is working as effectively as I would like. And I think it all boils down to this, good kicks come from the hips and that snapping motion right? How do I make THAT stronger? Because after 4-5 miles on the elliptical a day my legs are strong. But my hips are weak.
ADVICE? PLEASE? 8< Bestow upon me your knowrage....

being on the elliptical does not make your legs strong
also understand that the muscle of your hips are the same as your legs

[adoniscomplex]

Originally Posted by drpurple

the only thing that makes kicks stronger is kicking more.
.

that makes no sense at all btw
stronger muscles (when combined with proper form obv) equal stronger kicks

mass x acceleration = force
thus
the heavier your leg is and the faster you can move it , the harder it hits

speed of movement is dictated by maximum strength and firing rate
so the stronger you are the harder your kicks are

[adoniscomplex]

Originally Posted by tabloid

technique is very difficult to describe without demonstrating.

watch the feet

sweet vids

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by adoniscomplex

that makes no sense at all btw
stronger muscles (when combined with proper form obv) equal stronger kicks

mass x acceleration = force
thus
the heavier your leg is and the faster you can move it , the harder it hits

speed of movement is dictated by maximum strength and firing rate
so the stronger you are the harder your kicks are

doesnt work that way.

individual muscle strenght does not equal a stronger compound movement. doing leg extensions makes you strong at doing leg extensions. doing a compound movement like kicking repeatedly, maybe with ankle weights on, makes you stronger at doing kicks.

A=B,but B does not always = A

look at a fighter like sakmonkol. strong kicks. did he do massive weight lifting exercises? no. buakaw? no.

its constant kicking that builds the muscle necessary for kicking, and nothing more. sure, other isolation exercises may help, but they do not create a strong kick. technique makes a strong kick, irrespective of how much muscle you pack, or how much iron you can squat.

[ftwrestler]

Form=Power

^^^^those vids a great

You should walk your kicks in and when you land them on a heavy bag it should move at a 45 degree angle. I can't really show you over the internet. instead of 50 try 100-150 every other day you train. All slow and very methodical in form. Just touch, no power. Then when you feel like you have it down add 25% power and so on.


hope this helps.

(squats and leg press are great too!)

[adoniscomplex]

Originally Posted by drpurple

doesnt work that way.

individual muscle strenght does not equal a stronger compound movement. doing leg extensions makes you strong at doing leg extensions. doing a compound movement like kicking repeatedly, maybe with ankle weights on, makes you stronger at doing kicks.

A=B,but B does not always = A

look at a fighter like sakmonkol. strong kicks. did he do massive weight lifting exercises? no. buakaw? no.

its constant kicking that builds the muscle necessary for kicking, and nothing more. sure, other isolation exercises may help, but they do not create a strong kick. technique makes a strong kick, irrespective of how much muscle you pack, or how much iron you can squat.

i'm sorry as someone who makes his living training athletes i disagree

the fact is weights can make you run faster , jump higher , hit a baseball harder so why couldnt they make you kick harder
you are ignoring basic science

i completely agree form is paramount
its the top of the list !
just like with anything else , sprinting form is most important for sprint and so on
so yes kicking form is the most important thing , but next of the list is strength
our muscles still work the same way

you can choose to ignore science if you want but it doesnt make it not true

i explained the science behind it unless you want to pull some proof besides examples of what so and so did

the fact is babe ruth hit a ton of homeruns back in the day before lifting was deemed important for athletes
but now every pro ball player knows that lifting weights is an important part of increase the long ball

[shepz]

Man i could watch a talented Thai boxer kick pads all day.

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by adoniscomplex

i'm sorry as someone who makes his living training athletes i disagree

the fact is weights can make you run faster , jump higher , hit a baseball harder so why couldnt they make you kick harder
you are ignoring basic science

i completely agree form is paramount
its the top of the list !
just like with anything else , sprinting form is most important for sprint and so on
so yes kicking form is the most important thing , but next of the list is strength
our muscles still work the same way

you can choose to ignore science if you want but it doesnt make it not true

i explained the science behind it unless you want to pull some proof besides examples of what so and so did

the fact is babe ruth hit a ton of homeruns back in the day before lifting was deemed important for athletes
but now every pro ball player knows that lifting weights is an important part of increase the long ball

okay; kicking in itself actually build the muscles necessary for kicking. you dont need to do weights in order to build them. thats simple common sense.

like i said, as a former thai boxer (i didnt have a long fight record, in fact i onl yhad four fights, but i frequently sparred with champions) i am yet to see a thai boxer who actually bothered with weight work as a means to get a decent kick. the most i know of anyone doing was unweighted squats.

fair enough, you recknthat building big thighs builds a bigger leg; more muscle equals heavier leg, faster firing rate etc...but that isnt the case. in order to build the necessary muscle fibres used in kicking (a compound exercise), the best exercise anyone can do is more kicking. sit ups and core strength exercises will HELP, but they dont MAKE a kick.


like i said, in theory the idea of using isolation exercises as a means to build stronger muscles, SHOULD translate to a stronger coupmound exercise....but in 7 years thai boxing under the tuition of a thai trainer, im yet to see any evidence of it what so ever. i dont know what the other schools do, but i can assure you, Orono never did weight work, NungUbon Sitlerchai never did weight work, Ek Ubon never did....you dont need weights in order to develop a decent strike, constantly banging away at pads and bags is enough resistance work to generate and stimulate the muscle growth needed. the proof is in the pudding man.

[MMA-JUNKIE]

Originally Posted by ftwrestler

Form=Power

^^^^those vids a great

You should walk your kicks in and when you land them on a heavy bag it should move at a 45 degree angle. I can't really show you over the internet. instead of 50 try 100-150 every other day you train. All slow and very methodical in form. Just touch, no power. Then when you feel like you have it down add 25% power and so on.


hope this helps.

(squats and leg press are great too!)

I like this one the best.

My kicks only got better, when I slowed them down. I'd spend half hour at home, doing it in slow motion. Focusing on everything, my feet, pivoting, HIPS HIPS HIPS, my snap. All of it. Form is the only thing that got my kicks better, faster, and hitting harder. Do those Thai fighters in the videos look like they have huge legs?

[Tough_Lil_Girl]

WOW! All this advice is so helpful. Even though I have heard a lot of these things before, it really is a world of difference once you switch styles and have to relearn everything differently. At least for me I forgot A LOT.

A- The core lack of strength is a BIG deal with me, and would explain a lot. Any idea how to build that up other than crunches/sit-ups I can do hundreds of those but I still can't do the Yoga Boat move well. (Which, boys, if you haven't tried before is a KILLER )

B- I do use the leg press and I am so proud of how much I can leg press. Nothing near what ya'll can do I am sure--if I put the machine up to high it moves me off--but I do try and do that on a regular basis. What else increases leg strength besides swats (been doing those....>.> not as much as I should >.<!)

C- I love how debates/arguments ALWAYS break out on this board, because honestly I think that's how you truly understand the dynamics of how things work for some people but don't work for others.
-Side note on counter balance. In my experience some styles encourage it others actively discourage as it can be used as a crutch in balance work? Ironically however the style I practiced which had a higher degree of balance used more counter balanced techniques.

D- THANK YOU FOR THE VIDEOS and the advice on how to hit the bag at 45. I get nervous about tweeking out my knees, any one know good knee stretches besides "skier stretchs"

ALSO one last little request- I am moving to NORWICH in England in August. I want to start going to an actual MMA training gym along with my membership to the UEA gym. Can anyone recommend a good group who won't just take my money and degrade me for being a woman. I need a place that will work me as hard as the guys.

Again -thank you for all the support having some folks take me seriously gives me the confidence to keep my training up.

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by Tough_Lil_Girl

Hey all I am back. 8D
So here is my question, when I was in TKD I had great kicks. Now, where I study the concentration is on upper body and rolling (ew I know its necessary it's just gross) the kicks aren't good at all. I have tried doing 50 kicks a day each leg yadda yadda, bag work, balance work, none of it is working as effectively as I would like. And I think it all boils down to this, good kicks come from the hips and that snapping motion right? How do I make THAT stronger? Because after 4-5 miles on the elliptical a day my legs are strong. But my hips are weak.
ADVICE? PLEASE? 8< Bestow upon me your knowrage....

the best thing I have found involves lots of hitting the bag and playing around with movements
I have a lot of practice with kicking from just a pivot with my feet more or less planted and I have a lot of practice kicking with a short step beforehand
and even with a big step beforehand really exagerating the step I'd ever reasonably be able to take in a match
also I assume you are talking about Thai/Round kicks
for the lead I first found sucess from just coming up at an angle, now I come up as if I am kneeing someone to the side of my target then turn over for a more snap style round kick
and I get power from either style now

[88shane04]

Originally Posted by shepz

Man i could watch a talented Thai boxer kick pads all day.

x2 it's crazy how many sick fighters are out there.

I just got done with MT tonight so I really respect that vid now lol my switch kick are horrendous

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by adoniscomplex

that makes no sense at all btw
stronger muscles (when combined with proper form obv) equal stronger kicks

mass x acceleration = force
thus
the heavier your leg is and the faster you can move it , the harder it hits

speed of movement is dictated by maximum strength and firing rate
so the stronger you are the harder your kicks are

I see commentary like the guy you are countering a lot
muscle dosn't matter
as if your body moves through sheer force of will and your muscles do not play any part at all in acceleration....

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by drpurple

doesnt work that way.

individual muscle strenght does not equal a stronger compound movement. doing leg extensions makes you strong at doing leg extensions. doing a compound movement like kicking repeatedly, maybe with ankle weights on, makes you stronger at doing kicks.

A=B,but B does not always = A

look at a fighter like sakmonkol. strong kicks. did he do massive weight lifting exercises? no. buakaw? no.

its constant kicking that builds the muscle necessary for kicking, and nothing more. sure, other isolation exercises may help, but they do not create a strong kick. technique makes a strong kick, irrespective of how much muscle you pack, or how much iron you can squat.

yet to compare your two posts, they say two different things
second post says muscle isn't the sole determining factor and gives suggestions on how to build all the muscles involved in kicking
first post flat out says muscle has NOTHING to do with it
see your first post was vastly off
yoru second post isn't bad
but they are very very different if you look at them

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by drpurple

okay; kicking in itself actually build the muscles necessary for kicking. you dont need to do weights in order to build them. thats simple common sense.

like i said, as a former thai boxer (i didnt have a long fight record, in fact i onl yhad four fights, but i frequently sparred with champions) i am yet to see a thai boxer who actually bothered with weight work as a means to get a decent kick. the most i know of anyone doing was unweighted squats.

fair enough, you recknthat building big thighs builds a bigger leg; more muscle equals heavier leg, faster firing rate etc...but that isnt the case. in order to build the necessary muscle fibres used in kicking (a compound exercise), the best exercise anyone can do is more kicking. sit ups and core strength exercises will HELP, but they dont MAKE a kick.


like i said, in theory the idea of using isolation exercises as a means to build stronger muscles, SHOULD translate to a stronger coupmound exercise....but in 7 years thai boxing under the tuition of a thai trainer, im yet to see any evidence of it what so ever. i dont know what the other schools do, but i can assure you, Orono never did weight work, NungUbon Sitlerchai never did weight work, Ek Ubon never did....you dont need weights in order to develop a decent strike, constantly banging away at pads and bags is enough resistance work to generate and stimulate the muscle growth needed. the proof is in the pudding man.

you have very poor debating skills....
you utilize in the above a strawman argument and also babble about examples that don't really mean anything
you can't prove that something can't be done by using examples of people that didn't even try
I could say Mount Everest will never be asended fully and point to a bunch of people that never saw the thing in thier life as proof
but that is a pretty ****ty argument now isn't it?

[nuttybl]

you dont need any weight training, dont ****ing blame it on strength. strength is important, but that is when you have the form down and can already kick like a mule. i have done no leg training and i have really strong kick, why? Because i have good form. so dont bother wasting your time doing weight training, invest this time getting a coach that can teach you kicking.

Getting better core, or legs is like taking steriods when you arent even working out properly

[shepz]

Originally Posted by 88shane04

x2 it's crazy how many sick fighters are out there.

I just got done with MT tonight so I really respect that vid now lol my switch kick are horrendous

I'v got it tonight! My kicks are my strong point but i'd do anything for the quick snap that the Thai guy in above vids can get!

And one day i will go on a trip to thailand to train!

[tabloid]

Originally Posted by shepz

i'd do anything for the quick snap that the Thai guy in above vids can get!

wouldn't we all!!! the guy in the first video is Kaew Fairtex... dude is a Lumpinee champion

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by Kane Fan

yet to compare your two posts, they say two different things
second post says muscle isn't the sole determining factor and gives suggestions on how to build all the muscles involved in kicking
first post flat out says muscle has NOTHING to do with it
see your first post was vastly off
yoru second post isn't bad
but they are very very different if you look at them

nope. i said that weight work could help. but they dont make a kick.

fair enough, you think that weight work equals a stronger kick, i know that kicking repeatedly is enough to generate the muscle fibres required for a powerful kick without any weight work.

fair enough.

i did actually say that muscle has L:ITTLE to do with a kick, and this is true, so little of a kick is dependant upon thigh muscles, you can ignore them and still develop a strong kick.

put it this way; ive fractured my padmans arm through the pads. when i weighed 63 kilos. never did any weights to develop that. i dont really care if thats a "strawman" argument, i was giving genuine advice to someone who asked how to develop kicks. you want to argue sprts science, and thats fine...im no scientist, but i know through experience what works. the advice i gave works. its up to her to use it or not.

[drpurple]

Originally Posted by Kane Fan

an't be done by using examples of people that didn't even try
I could say Mount Everest will never be asended fully and point to a bunch of people that never saw the thing in thier life as proof

you ever seen sakmonkol kick? how much more powerful do you want your kicks to be ffs?

[88shane04]

Originally Posted by shepz

I'v got it tonight! My kicks are my strong point but i'd do anything for the quick snap that the Thai guy in above vids can get!

And one day i will go on a trip to thailand to train!

My MT trainer just got back from Thailand he went there for 3 or 4 weeks and trained at differrent schools he said it was sick and he is teaching us some really cool stuff, brought me back a t-shirt from some fights he went to he said it was hard to watch there were some like 10 year old kids dicing each other up.

He also caught something on the skin and had to go to the hospital

[ftwrestler]

Originally Posted by 88shane04

My MT trainer just got back from Thailand he went there for 3 or 4 weeks and trained at differrent schools he said it was sick and he is teaching us some really cool stuff, brought me back a t-shirt from some fights he went to he said it was hard to watch there were some like 10 year old kids dicing each other up.

He also caught something on the skin and had to go to the hospital

you gotta stay away from that part of town...

[Tough_Lil_Girl]

Originally Posted by nuttybl

you dont need any weight training, dont ****ing blame it on strength. strength is important, but that is when you have the form down and can already kick like a mule. i have done no leg training and i have really strong kick, why? Because i have good form. so dont bother wasting your time doing weight training, invest this time getting a coach that can teach you kicking.

Getting better core, or legs is like taking steriods when you aren't even working out properly

MMM fantastically good point. I wish I could find someone to train me individually though, I had someone for a while...and my dojo...<shrugs> its all self defense.

And I don't mean to get in between a group of fighting dogs but to insult someone's debate skills is sort of useless when all the thread is about advice...it suffices just as much to say "I don't agree" But I know this is like talking to a wall :P When you wanna b**** someone out you just gotta.

[Tough_Lil_Girl]

Originally Posted by Kane Fan

you have very poor debating skills....
you utilize in the above a strawman argument and also babble about examples that don't really mean anything
you can't prove that something can't be done by using examples of people that didn't even try
I could say Mount Everest will never be asended fully and point to a bunch of people that never saw the thing in thier life as proof
but that is a pretty ****ty argument now isn't it?

<hugz kanez> 8D

[Kane Fan]

Originally Posted by drpurple

nope. i said that weight work could help. but they dont make a kick.

fair enough, you think that weight work equals a stronger kick, i know that kicking repeatedly is enough to generate the muscle fibres required for a powerful kick without any weight work.

fair enough.

i did actually say that muscle has L:ITTLE to do with a kick, and this is true, so little of a kick is dependant upon thigh muscles, you can ignore them and still develop a strong kick.

put it this way; ive fractured my padmans arm through the pads. when i weighed 63 kilos. never did any weights to develop that. i dont really care if thats a "strawman" argument, i was giving genuine advice to someone who asked how to develop kicks. you want to argue sprts science, and thats fine...im no scientist, but i know through experience what works. the advice i gave works. its up to her to use it or not.

the only thing that makes kicks stronger is kicking more.50 kicks a day not working? do 100, each leg AFTER your session.

I take it someone broke into your home and posted that from your computer?
it's ok that you are giving advice on what worked for you, the problem is you are saying other things DON'T work when you have not even tried them....
see the problem tehre
you are suggesting because your way works, no other way possibly can
and it just isnt the way the real world works...
I mean any idiot can tell you that Bob Sapp had a harder punch on his first day of training then another newbie that wieghed 145 lbs...
I know you have some real world example of the fact that it didn't work that way, but find Bob Sapps first instructor and I'm sure he'll tell you I am right