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    The Mystical Side of Life...

    After reading and posting in the Ghosts thread I am offering my knowledge and experience in dealing with mystical and metaphysical occurences. I have meditated on/off for over twenty years and was a monk for five of those years. I have studied and practiced Yoga, Shamanism, Buddhism, Christianity and various forms of prayer and visualization. Also I have had experiences with clairevoyance, out of body and my specialty may be in the realm of lucid dreaming.

    This thread is very open ended in that it doesn't have to be a soliciting advice or clarification from me on various phenomenon. It can be a sharing of ideas, insights and experiences in general...
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    oh hai share the magic
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    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    After reading and posting in the Ghosts thread I am offering my knowledge and experience in dealing with mystical and metaphysical occurences. I have meditated on/off for over twenty years and was a monk for five of those years. I have studied and practiced Yoga, Shamanism, Buddhism, Christianity and various forms of prayer and visualization. Also I have had experiences with clairevoyance, out of body and my specialty may be in the realm of lucid dreaming.

    This thread is very open ended in that it doesn't have to be a soliciting advice or clarification from me on various phenomenon. It can be a sharing of ideas, insights and experiences in general...

    What does metaphysical mean?

    What values have you learned from Shamanism? Buddhism? Christianity?

    Do you think most people are open to the mystical side of life? Do you feel that most of these people are only open to these sorts of experiences because they need something to believe in that's better than their present state of affairs?
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    Registered User Forge3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    What does metaphysical mean?

    What values have you learned from Shamanism? Buddhism? Christianity?

    Do you think most people are open to the mystical side of life? Do you feel that most of these people are only open to these sorts of experiences because they need something to believe in that's better than their present state of affairs?
    Metaphysical refers to 'reality' that lies beyond the realm of the senses. Some may think this includes quantum mechanics since we cannot see atomic particles but it refers to alternate reality/ies beyond material reality. The soul, God, paranormal activity etc fall within the realm of metaphysics.

    The values I learned from Shamanism, Buddhism and Christianity are that a person's spiritual evolution is not measured much by psychic powers or their quantity of paranormal experienes; rather it is measured by one's heart relationship to creation, most particularly other living beings. In general love is the highest reality and intent or acts that are bound to it such as acts of loving-kindness, compassion are the trademarks of a higher order person. This person may not be trained in the mystic arts or religious studies but by their simplicity of life and loving relationship to all that is around them they are of a higher order than someone who can levitate but still holds enmity with his/her neighbour. So in essence loving-kindness, goodwill, compassion in action toward self and others are my highest values and all the other values flow from these. Some people propose that people who are grounded in love without any formal training have burned off a lot of negative karma from past lives. Others will say they just had a nurturing environment and mild personality to begin with.


    I really can't say that most people are open to the mystical side of life the way that children (who are in a more intuitive and receptive state) are. People are curious by their nature and will ask questions on subjects they choose to be sceptical about.

    I don't know if most people are putting faith in a vision of heavenly paradise or life beyond the grave because of a fear of death and the unknown. Though I would add that it is very likely that some use this idea as a comfort against such anxiety (albeit not consciously). And the hope that all suffering will end in another life is very attractive as a source of comfort and consolation.

    I hope I have answered your questions.

    Mark
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    I never really believed in ghosts or spirits or having contact with the dead, until my husband died. Too many things happened that just couldn't be explained. At one point I even told him to go away. It was scaring me!!!

    Whatever people believe in, one thing I hate is hypocrisy. Religion is loaded with it. So much wrong is done in "God's" name. And the supposed pious! It's as if going to church regularly and reading the bible absolves them from the mean and hateful things they do outside of church or even in the name of the church.

    I have no idea what the "truth" is, but I think there is far more to life than we realize.
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    Registered User Forge3's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    I never really believed in ghosts or spirits or having contact with the dead, until my husband died. Too many things happened that just couldn't be explained. At one point I even told him to go away. It was scaring me!!!

    Whatever people believe in, one thing I hate is hypocrisy. Religion is loaded with it. So much wrong is done in "God's" name. And the supposed pious! It's as if going to church regularly and reading the bible absolves them from the mean and hateful things they do outside of church or even in the name of the church.

    I have no idea what the "truth" is, but I think there is far more to life than we realize.
    Thanks for sharing that. And sorry for your loss. I agree with you on the hypocrisy part. I am Roman Catholic but have explored outside of my faith. What some 'religious' minded people fail to consider is that at the core of religious belief is the importance of 'relationship'. IMo if we are to be judged it is not by: quantity of prayers; how much money we gave away; how many times we attended church; how many times we have read the bible etc. The big question is how we related to ourselves and the world around us. Did we love ourselves and others? One hail Mary prayed with love is greater than a thousand Rosaries repeated in a strictly mecanical way and while our hearts are full of enmity toward our neighbours. All the other spiritual exercises when they are done to look righteous in the eyes of others, or indebting God to us fail as much as if we were physically training hard while eating a steady diet of potatoe chips. The exercises are neutral in that they are a means to an end (mystical union with the 'Creator' being the highest proclaimed one). And people who seek the consolations of God are not on the same level as those who simply seek the God of consolations.


    Sorry if I come across preachy lol. I just have a lot of passion about such things and have fallen into more pitfalls and made enough mistakes to finally begin waking up...

    I also don't know what the truth is except like you I belive it is well beyond the limits of the senses and no mater what we do or don't do it remains unaltered in any case.
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    Taken and not looking LatinaLoca's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    Metaphysical refers to 'reality' that lies beyond the realm of the senses. Some may think this includes quantum mechanics since we cannot see atomic particles but it refers to alternate reality/ies beyond material reality. The soul, God, paranormal activity etc fall within the realm of metaphysics.
    Does the 5th sense fall into this too?


    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    I really can't say that most people are open to the mystical side of life the way that children (who are in a more intuitive and receptive state) are. People are curious by their nature and will ask questions on subjects they choose to be sceptical about.
    Do you think children are more intune because they haven't been blindsided by society yet?

    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    I hope I have answered your questions.
    Mark
    Yep and they just led to more questions.
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    Taken and not looking LatinaLoca's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    I never really believed in ghosts or spirits or having contact with the dead, until my husband died. Too many things happened that just couldn't be explained. At one point I even told him to go away. It was scaring me!!!
    Wow! I'm sorry that your husband passed away. I do believe that people that are connected by true love can never be seperated.

    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Whatever people believe in, one thing I hate is hypocrisy. Religion is loaded with it. So much wrong is done in "God's" name. And the supposed pious! It's as if going to church regularly and reading the bible absolves them from the mean and hateful things they do outside of church or even in the name of the church.
    Me too!!!! The hyocrisy is why I no longer go to church. I have faith and I don't see any reason to limit my faith on the beliefs taught in ONE church by ONE leader.

    The church that I attend regularly had taught my grandmother that anyone who was Catholic was going to hell. She began to tell me how my mother would go to hell for being Catholic and if my children were raised Catholic they would go to hell too. Who is she or who am I to judge who goes to hell? That's not my place nor is it hers. Hummm and they wonder why I won't go back. They also seem to think that never in the history of mankind has any "Christian"group ever enslaved or killed in the name of God. I feel like if I attend that church then I'm saying I agree with what they think and I don't so I won't go back.
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    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    Does the 5th sense fall into this too?

    Do you think children are more intune because they haven't been blindsided by society yet?


    Yep and they just led to more questions.
    The 5th sense??? Yes the '6th' sense falls under this category

    Yes. Definitely a part of reason they can have more experiences of this nature imo. To really young children cartoon reality may be considered on par with material reality so they beleive in imaginary characters. This can make them more open to other realities. Having said this a lot or the majority of their other-worldly experiences may simply be the result of an overactive imagination. But the chance of having real mystical encounters is heightened imo.

    There is school of thought about this echoed in the books by Carlos Castaneda of his training under a shaman Don Yuan Matus. Don Yuan remarked that at an early age we do not share the general consensus of material reality of the adult world. That this formed consensus protects the ego from having encounters with the unknown or unknowable (mystical encounters). Since this consensus is not well formed in children they are more vulnerable or open to such mystical encounters of the unkown and unknowable.

    Funny enough you can see in some of the more enlightened people a childlike spirit. For instance the Dalai Lama.
    Last edited by Forge3; 06-01-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    Wow! I'm sorry that your husband passed away. I do believe that people that are connected by true love can never be seperated.
    Uh, it was 16 years ago, and heaven help me if he was my soul mate
    Truth is, he's helped me more in death than he ever would have in life.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Uh, it was 16 years ago, and heaven help me if he was my soul mate
    Truth is, he's helped me more in death than he ever would have in life.
    ROFLOL. Well umm at least he eventually helped you???
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    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    The 5th sense??? Yes the '6th' sense falls under this category
    LOL oh my oops. Yep, thats the one, the 6th sense
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    I have a few questions. I will start with the lucid dreaming.

    For about two years now I have not been able to remember my dreams, at all. For the past week, I find myself having the same dream, but it twists each time. It starts with a Tornado, a tremendous one. With four or five dancing around it. I am in a car that looks just like the one I used to have, but totalled, I got another one and built it just like it. I am with a girl I have no idea who she is in real life, but I am well aware in my dream. Every dream, I pick a path to run from it, but each time I take an alternate route, and it never works. Right before something is about to happen to me, I wake up. But each time, I get further. But still cannot make it out.

    Can you explain this?
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    Originally Posted by smallfry06 View Post
    I have a few questions. I will start with the lucid dreaming.

    For about two years now I have not been able to remember my dreams, at all. For the past week, I find myself having the same dream, but it twists each time. It starts with a Tornado, a tremendous one. With four or five dancing around it. I am in a car that looks just like the one I used to have, but totalled, I got another one and built it just like it. I am with a girl I have no idea who she is in real life, but I am well aware in my dream. Every dream, I pick a path to run from it, but each time I take an alternate route, and it never works. Right before something is about to happen to me, I wake up. But each time, I get further. But still cannot make it out.

    Can you explain this?
    Intuitive interpretation: There is a pressing matter that is causing anxiety. It is something that seems or is beyond your control. (This was the first thing that came to mind).

    Btw, I cannot directly interpret your symbols because symbols mean different things to different people. For some a tornado is a sign of destruction and for others it is simply a sign of change. Focus on your feelings in relation to your dream. For example did the tornado which you couldn't shake create feelings of apprehension and helplessness in the dream? Then take a step back into your waking life. Have you experienced these feelings in conjuction with any current events? If so then this dream is sending a message or broadcasting your underlying thoughts on this matter. For instance, you may forsee the outcome of a current challenge to be negative (Tornado). Or the tornado may not be negative but simply a symbol of change...though wrought with intensity.

    Edit: Lucid dreaming is not associated with recurrent dreams but rather is the state of being lucid/conscious that you are dreaming.
    Last edited by Forge3; 06-01-2008 at 11:45 PM.
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    How do you reconcile Christianity and Buddhism? I mean, one is evangelical, trinity-based, and focuses on God as a person and a divine being who cares about your behavior and rewards you with a life-like experience after death.

    Buddhism is pretty much the opposite. There's no "god", life is an illusion, and to be enlightened is to understand that nothing is permanent and that to cling to behaviors and tangibles is to deny yourself nirvana.

    I guess it seems kind of weird to me to see someone present themselves as an authority on spirituality, and yet have such a, well, range. Especially since Christianity in particular specializes in discouraging mysticism. In what religion were you a monk? Why did you leave your order?
    "This," I said pleasantly, "is known as getting it on."
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    I have something that is connected to lucid dreaming. How would one go about being able to lucidly dream? The only thing that worries me about the different methods is a few cases I have heard where people enter sleep paralysis and have really scary encounters. Any information on lucid dreaming would be appreciated.
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    Originally Posted by limniade View Post
    How do you reconcile Christianity and Buddhism? I mean, one is evangelical, trinity-based, and focuses on God as a person and a divine being who cares about your behavior and rewards you with a life-like experience after death.

    Buddhism is pretty much the opposite. There's no "god", life is an illusion, and to be enlightened is to understand that nothing is permanent and that to cling to behaviors and tangibles is to deny yourself nirvana.

    I guess it seems kind of weird to me to see someone present themselves as an authority on spirituality, and yet have such a, well, range. Especially since Christianity in particular specializes in discouraging mysticism. In what religion were you a monk? Why did you leave your order?
    Christianity and Buddhism have been integrated by some Christians for years now*. That is not to see that Buddhist beliefs resonate with Christian theology. Rather it is that Buddhist practices such as mindfulness, and the philosophy of loving-kindness and compassion are compatible. I have studied their approach to life and have practiced their mindfulness meditation for years. It allows me to slow down, be still and center myself in God consciousness. For instance every in breath is seen as 'opening' up to God's presence and every out breath as a sort of amen to the 'presence'. The practice is adapted to meet the individual in their relationship to God and the creation. Sometimes i may just focus on my body or sounds around me to sharpen my skills in this practice.


    Some of the Fathers of the early Christian Church also known as the Desert Fathers adapted some Hindu techniques of breathing and mantras using the name of Jesus or what is referred to as the Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus christ, Son of god have Mercy on me a sinner" to center themselves in Christ. It is well documented in a book called the **Philokalia and there are other documents that are preserved and sanctioned in Church literature that details this practice. They would sit in lotus position and with the in breath say or think "Lord Jesus Christ" then the out breath "Son of God" etc...

    http://www.parallax.org/cgi-bin/shop...n&key=BOOKLBLC


    ** www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philokalia


    There is tons more literature showing that the two have meeting points.


    Christianity does not discourage mysticism but it doesn't present it as often as it should. There is a whole branch of theology in Catholic faith called Mystical theology in which is the lives of the mystics (Saints known to have achieved very high states of contemplation, having visions etc) are treated and explored. Some common names such as St. Theresa of Avila and St. John of the Cross come to mind. They reached ecstatic states and states of rapture with experiences of visions etc through a dedicated practice of contemplative prayer and they detail that path for others to follow. The ultimate goal being Mystical Union with God. By the way Yoga simply means union with God. I have read their books and they speak that material things are to be looked over in favor of the spiritual. That the real life is not here on earth but the delights of heaven. And that the greatest corporeal pleasures are as great pain compared to the bliss of heavenly union. There are many points where Buddhism and Christianity are comparable. Ecumenical dialogue between the faith has helped bring insight and spiritual nourishment. They are definitely not exact but I gather wisdom where it is offered though I am Christ centered.


    Actually I left Christianity to explore the other faiths and practices for years before returning with a mature commitment to my faith. And I carry the knowledge and instructions of other spiritual practices as tools in my spiritual utility belt for my journey. This explaination is long winded though I could go on because i have encountered this question before.


    I was a Christian Monk and I left the order because after five years of such life was found to be a stepping stone for me and I was not called to a lifetime commitment to poverty, obedience and celibate-chastity. In a sense I outgrew the institutional mold and found myself called into the world to work with the homeless as a layperson.
    Last edited by Forge3; 06-02-2008 at 12:19 PM.
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    Originally Posted by robplaysgeetar View Post
    I have something that is connected to lucid dreaming. How would one go about being able to lucidly dream? The only thing that worries me about the different methods is a few cases I have heard where people enter sleep paralysis and have really scary encounters. Any information on lucid dreaming would be appreciated.
    Basic method:
    Keeping a dream journal beside your bed and right after you wake up journal the dream. This creates a mnemonic or memory trigger that can assist you to wake up in a dream if you do it regularly.
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    Originally Posted by Forge3 View Post
    Christianity and Buddhism have been integrated by some Christians for years now*.
    ...
    I was a Christian Monk and I left the order because after five years of such life was found to be a stepping stone for me and I was not called to a lifetime commitment to poverty, obedience and celibate-chastity. In a sense I outgrew the institutional mold and found myself called into the world to work with the homeless as a layperson.
    Fantastic post! you appear to be a true 'scholar'. would you care to share how meditation and mantras might help in the pursuit of bodybuilding and gaining physical strength?? its likely, others beside myself would be interested in gaining some insight from you.......

    best,
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    Originally Posted by LiftingIsLife View Post
    Fantastic post! you appear to be a true 'scholar'. would you care to share how meditation and mantras might help in the pursuit of bodybuilding and gaining physical strength?? its likely, others beside myself would be interested in gaining some insight from you.......

    best,
    ~lifer
    Here are some threads of mine you may find helpful

    Meditation and bodybuilding
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...errerid=314325

    Learning the art of meditation :
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...errerid=314325

    Yoga and bodybuilding
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...errerid=314325


    A Q & A thread aqbout meditation etc...
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...errerid=314325

    Essentially meditation helps manage stress which is productive for bodybuilding in that it curtails excess stress that leads to anti-catabolic activity. It also helps one focus more intensely on the exercises and be more in tune with the body which can be beneficial for bodybuilding.
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    I watched a documentary lastnight called, "Angels: Good or Evil", it was on the HInt (History International) chanel. It wasn't just about angels but spirits as well. It had some very interesting topics and interviews with a few Harvard professors and other doctors.

    It also talked about other religons and how they are all somewhat connected. It talked about Eyptian Capt (????) which is a combination of Christianity and Egyptian mythology. It also talked a bit about Islam, which much to my suprise has many beliefs similar to Christianity and there were similarities between the Koran and the Bible.
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    Originally Posted by freebirdmac View Post
    Whatever people believe in, one thing I hate is hypocrisy. Religion is loaded with it. So much wrong is done in "God's" name. And the supposed pious! It's as if going to church regularly and reading the bible absolves them from the mean and hateful things they do outside of church or even in the name of the church.

    I have no idea what the "truth" is, but I think there is far more to life than we realize.
    You pretty much summed up how I feel.

    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    Me too!!!! The hyocrisy is why I no longer go to church. I have faith and I don't see any reason to limit my faith on the beliefs taught in ONE church by ONE leader.

    The church that I attend regularly had taught my grandmother that anyone who was Catholic was going to hell. She began to tell me how my mother would go to hell for being Catholic and if my children were raised Catholic they would go to hell too. Who is she or who am I to judge who goes to hell? That's not my place nor is it hers. Hummm and they wonder why I won't go back. They also seem to think that never in the history of mankind has any "Christian"group ever enslaved or killed in the name of God. I feel like if I attend that church then I'm saying I agree with what they think and I don't so I won't go back.
    I am Roman Catholic, but there are many things taught in my religion that I don't agree with. The church that I grew up attending is so full of hypocrites, it's really difficult for me to attend. Plus, based on the teachings, I am doomed to hell.
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    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    I watched a documentary lastnight called, "Angels: Good or Evil", it was on the HInt (History International) chanel. It wasn't just about angels but spirits as well. It had some very interesting topics and interviews with a few Harvard professors and other doctors.

    It also talked about other religons and how they are all somewhat connected. It talked about Eyptian Capt (????) which is a combination of Christianity and Egyptian mythology. It also talked a bit about Islam, which much to my suprise has many beliefs similar to Christianity and there were similarities between the Koran and the Bible.
    From what I've been told, there are more references to Mary (or Miriam) in the Qu'ran than there are in the Bible. I always thought that was kinda odd.
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    Cool

    You've been meditating haven't you? Are you really asking which faculty of the mind has to be developed to enable one to perceive reality as it is? From what I can tell with my clouded mind it is the mindfulness that is critical. I think that Buddha laid a clear path ( Eightfold Noble Path which is what he called the Fourth Noble Truth ) to understanding reality. Other religions put the ultimate control outside of the individual, Buddhism says no one can save you but you, it's all up to you. As for the metaphysical, supposedly when concentration is developed beyond what's consider the norm mind starts perceiving things outside of duality, which is the "normal" reality we are surrounded by. The thing is that concentration alone is not enough, concentration is focused, powerful but limited, mindfulness is all encompassing, and the tool to understanding reality. One needs to live a blameless ( utterly moral ) life to be able to put the path into practice. As you mentioned love, kindness, compassion, joy and equanimity to keep it all real are essential, but you have to practice the path to improve. I would not worry about the paranormal, I don't think it matters much, what really matters is to develop one's mind. The only thing that is stopping you from seeing reality as it is is your own mind. There is no substitute for practice. The golden rule is, do good any chance you get, avoid all evil, train your mind. Btw, I am a Roman Catholic as well. Cheers!
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    Originally Posted by LatinaLoca View Post
    It also talked about other religons and how they are all somewhat connected. It talked about Eyptian Capt (????) which is a combination of Christianity and Egyptian mythology. It also talked a bit about Islam, which much to my suprise has many beliefs similar to Christianity and there were similarities between the Koran and the Bible.

    You mean Copts (Coptic)? They were the first divide from the Catholic (Universal) Church. I keep meaning to read more about them but if that's the word you were looking for and you're interested, you have a means to look them up now, too.

    Great thread, Forge...mostly just reading for now.
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    This will probably come across as insensitive to some, and for that I apologize. But I am always amazed to see how many people truly believe in a God/higher power. I was raised a Methodist, and my family very much believes in Christianity. And while I have nothing against that, I've never been able to have that belief. Too many inconsistencies for me to "buy in". Also, it truly strikes me as odd that a divine power would all geography to play such a huge role in salvation. For instance, if christianity is right then 80% of the middle east is screwed by birth. If the Muslims are right the same goes for the west.

    To me, it all seems like a wonderful story about the way that people should behave written by some very smart people. But that's where it ends. Kind of like cultural fables, many cultures have similar stories, but they vary with each culture.
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    Originally Posted by tomsmither View Post
    This will probably come across as insensitive to some, and for that I apologize. But I am always amazed to see how many people truly believe in a God/higher power. I was raised a Methodist, and my family very much believes in Christianity. And while I have nothing against that, I've never been able to have that belief. Too many inconsistencies for me to "buy in". Also, it truly strikes me as odd that a divine power would all geography to play such a huge role in salvation. For instance, if christianity is right then 80% of the middle east is screwed by birth. If the Muslims are right the same goes for the west.

    To me, it all seems like a wonderful story about the way that people should behave written by some very smart people. But that's where it ends. Kind of like cultural fables, many cultures have similar stories, but they vary with each culture.
    It's not insensitive. It's your beliefs and you're entitled to believe what you want. I can't say that I would argue with most of what you said. I was raised Roman Catholic, but I don't take everything that was taught to me at face value and questions several things.
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    Originally Posted by tomsmither View Post
    This will probably come across as insensitive to some, and for that I apologize. But I am always amazed to see how many people truly believe in a God/higher power. I was raised a Methodist, and my family very much believes in Christianity. And while I have nothing against that, I've never been able to have that belief. Too many inconsistencies for me to "buy in". Also, it truly strikes me as odd that a divine power would all geography to play such a huge role in salvation. For instance, if christianity is right then 80% of the middle east is screwed by birth. If the Muslims are right the same goes for the west.

    To me, it all seems like a wonderful story about the way that people should behave written by some very smart people. But that's where it ends. Kind of like cultural fables, many cultures have similar stories, but they vary with each culture.
    I also feel that the bible, etc. are a collection of nice stories. You used the right word - fables.

    I do believe in a higher power, however I have a problem with organized religiong. I was raised Roman Catholic and practiced up until a few years ago. The hypocrisy of that church amazes me. The kicker for me was when I got divorced. Everyone started to ask if I was going to get an annulment. My response to that is that there is no way I will bastardize my kids. Their response? Oh, the church doesn't consider the children bastards after an annulment. So, by definition an annulment means the marriage never happened. And a bastard is a child born out of wedlock. If you annul the marriage, how doesn't the 2nd apply? It illustrated clearly my problem with the church - it is made up of man made rules.
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    Originally Posted by erinlee01 View Post
    I also feel that the bible, etc. are a collection of nice stories. You used the right word - fables.

    I do believe in a higher power, however I have a problem with organized religiong. I was raised Roman Catholic and practiced up until a few years ago. The hypocrisy of that church amazes me. The kicker for me was when I got divorced. Everyone started to ask if I was going to get an annulment. My response to that is that there is no way I will bastardize my kids. Their response? Oh, the church doesn't consider the children bastards after an annulment. So, by definition an annulment means the marriage never happened. And a bastard is a child born out of wedlock. If you annul the marriage, how doesn't the 2nd apply? It illustrated clearly my problem with the church - it is made up of man made rules.
    It does have some rather strange rules. The one I found funny was while getting my daughter baptized, who was born out of wedlock (goodness forbid!), the church was willing to baptize her, but couldn't baptize a little girl of a couple that was living together, but not married (living in sin) So, I thought to myself the church looks down on a father that is involved w/his child, if he is living w/the mother and not married to her. But, my situation was OK (where the father isn't involved).

    I also thought it was funny how noone would say that my daughter was born out of wedlock, they just kept saying the deceased father or ex-husband. I corrected them a couple times and they kept saying it. Very strange!
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    Originally Posted by erinlee01 View Post
    Everyone started to ask if I was going to get an annulment. My response to that is that there is no way I will bastardize my kids. Their response? Oh, the church doesn't consider the children bastards after an annulment. So, by definition an annulment means the marriage never happened. And a bastard is a child born out of wedlock. If you annul the marriage, how doesn't the 2nd apply? It illustrated clearly my problem with the church - it is made up of man made rules.
    "Bastardization" is not a Catholic term, so far as I'm aware. The annulment of your sacramental marriage has no bearing on state recognition of your marriage.

    Originally Posted by IronCamp View Post
    It does have some rather strange rules. The one I found funny was while getting my daughter baptized, who was born out of wedlock (goodness forbid!), the church was willing to baptize her, but couldn't baptize a little girl of a couple that was living together, but not married (living in sin) So, I thought to myself the church looks down on a father that is involved w/his child, if he is living w/the mother and not married to her. But, my situation was OK (where the father isn't involved).

    I also thought it was funny how noone would say that my daughter was born out of wedlock, they just kept saying the deceased father or ex-husband. I corrected them a couple times and they kept saying it. Very strange!
    That is not how your daughter's baptism should have gone down. A priest can not straight up refuse to baptize a child because how the parents choose to live is not the ideal way a Catholic should live (nobody could get baptized, then ). Is that the only Parish you've ever been a member of?
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