Why does god allow pain?

[P51]

I know this has probably been asked millions of times. I understand death. But why is there such a thing as pain? From a broken heart, to a bullet wound, why? What is the reason behind this?

[PickItUp]

Do you mean...

"Why do humans suffer?"

[P51]

Do you mean...

"Why do humans suffer?"

I assume that is also the same.

[stateless]

Do you mean...

"Why do humans suffer?"

Yes, that would've been a more appropriate question, but depending on your stance, the two can be the same I suppose.

As for why there is pain, well some people are born without the ability to feel physical pain. They inevitably end up terribly injured because of this condition. Pain can be your friend sometimes

As for emotional pain, well yes, I'm sure we've all been through emotional rollercoaster rides and felt terrible. Without appreciating the very worst of life though, how can you fully appreciate the best of times? You need something to compare your experiences to.

[Rune]

Pain teaches lessons. Without pain how is one to learn from their mistakes? How is one to enjoy that which is pleasurable without also experiencing the bad?

Not really a God oriented answer, but hopefully should get you thinking a little.

[Galt]

You should check out New Testament scholar and former Christian Bart Ehrman's God's Problem: How the Bible Fails to Answer Our Most Important Question--Why We Suffer.

[Beeewbs]

Yes, that would've been a more appropriate question, but depending on your stance, the two can be the same I suppose.

As for why there is pain, well some people are born without the ability to feel physical pain. They inevitably end up terribly injured because of this condition. Pain can be your friend sometimes

As for emotional pain, well yes, I'm sure we've all been through emotional rollercoaster rides and felt terrible. Without appreciating the very worst of life though, how can you fully appreciate the best of times? You need something to compare your experiences to.

Certain bugs don't really have pain sensors like we do, and yet, they know when something is harmful. Is god really incapable of making a world in which we cannot know when something is bad for us without it being painful? Does a world really need to exist in which we can be injured in the first place? Why is the ability to be injured necessary? Why is existence necessary?

Concerning emotional pain, our brains only work that way with appreciation because of how we were designed. Is got not able to create people who can appreciate life without pain? You can't be injured in heaven right? You won't feel emotional or physical pain in heaven, right? I don't understand why humans put limitations on a god they call omniscient and omnipotent. Or why they contradict themselves by saying pain is necessary when they believe pain does not exist in heaven.

Furtmore, on the issue of being able to be injured, why does god allow for certain situations to exist, such as children being f*cked in the ass by their daddy? Or children being beat with metal poles? Or people being tortured? Why allow these situations to exist? Free will doesn't excuse it. Who cares; they are terrible things that really do not need to exist.

[P51]

Pain teaches lessons. Without pain how is one to learn from their mistakes? How is one to enjoy that which is pleasurable without also experiencing the bad?

Not really a God oriented answer, but hopefully should get you thinking a little.

I think it is though. Why do people have to suffer to meet death?(cancer etc..)

[1devil]

Pain teaches lessons. Without pain how is one to learn from their mistakes? How is one to enjoy that which is pleasurable without also experiencing the bad?

Not really a God oriented answer, but hopefully should get you thinking a little.

Hmm. The problem with this idea is that everyone's idea of emotional pain is different. For some emotional pain is mommy and daddy refusing to get you the Mercedes you wanted for you 16th birthday. For others it's losing your entire family to famine. I'm not sure what lesson the former person learned. Additionally what if the individual that lost his family continued to endure one catastrophe after another up until he/she died in a premature and unfortunate manner. How did these experiences teach him/her to truly understand pleasure.

The bottom line is that emotional pain is simply the byproduct of human intelligence. most reptiles don't think deep thoughts and therfore don't experience emotional turmoil.

[Rune]

I think it is though. Why do people have to suffer to meet death?(cancer etc..)

One really doesn't have to suffer. There is always the option of the easy way out (pills, gun, hanging). Most people would rather suffer for the chance of more life, than to give up and take an easy death. Suffering makes the spirit strong.

[1devil]

I think it is though. Why do people have to suffer to meet death?(cancer etc..)

It's your body telling you somthing is wrong. Nothing more and nothing less.

[Beeewbs]

Hmm. The problem with this idea is that everyone's idea of emotional pain is different. For some emotional pain is mommy and daddy refusing to get you the Mercedes you wanted for you 16th birthday. For others it's losing your entire family to famine. I'm not sure what lesson the former person learned. Additionally what if the individual that lost his family continued to endure one catastrophe after another up until he/she died in a premature and unfortunate manner. How did these experiences teach him/her to truly understand pleasure.

The bottom line is that emotional pain is simply the byproduct of human intelligence. most reptiles don't think deep thoughts and therfore don't experience emotional turmoil.

And from a religious perspective, why kind of teacher has to use pain to teach? You would think a god would have a little bit better curriculum than "Here, have some cancer; that's your lesson for this year." or "Here, get raped and murdered; Test tomorrow."

[stateless]

Certain bugs don't really have pain sensors like we do, and yet, they know when something is harmful. Is god really incapable of making a world in which we cannot know when something is bad for us without it being painful? Does a world really need to exist in which we can be injured in the first place? Why is the ability to be injured necessary? Why is existence necessary?

Concerning emotional pain, our brains only work that way with appreciation because of how we were designed. Is got not able to create people who can appreciate life without pain? You can't be injured in heaven right? You won't feel emotional or physical pain in heaven, right? I don't understand why humans put limitations on a god they call omniscient and omnipotent. Or why they contradict themselves by saying pain is necessary when they believe pain does not exist in heaven.

Furtmore, on the issue of being able to be injured, why does god allow for certain situations to exist, such as children being f*cked in the ass by their daddy? Or children being beat with metal poles? Or people being tortured? Why allow these situations to exist? Free will doesn't excuse it. Who cares; they are terrible things that really do not need to exist.

I'm not entirely sure what angle you're coming at this from. I doubt the existence of God, so I am not saying that God has bestowed us with these faults, or that he shouldn't have. My point is more that emotional and physical pain can sometimes be useful.

[1devil]

I'm not entirely sure what angle you're coming at this from. I doubt the existence of God, so I am not saying that God has bestowed us with these faults, or that he shouldn't have. My point is more that emotional and physical pain can sometimes be useful.

Just because pain MAY serve a purpose in some situations, does not somehow make it the reason for the existance of pain. In the case of physical pain it is our body telling us somthing is wrong. Emotional pain is the by product of a very complex brain.

[Rune]

Hmm. The problem with this idea is that everyone's idea of emotional pain is different. For some emotional pain is mommy and daddy refusing to get you the Mercedes you wanted for you 16th birthday. For others it's losing your entire family to famine. I'm not sure what lesson the former person learned. Additionally what if the individual that lost his family continued to endure one catastrophe after another up until he/she died in a premature and unfortunate manner. How did these experiences teach him/her to truly understand pleasure.

The bottom line is that emotional pain is simply the byproduct of human intelligence. most reptiles don't think deep thoughts and therfore don't experience emotional turmoil.

Lifes a bitch, some people get it better than others, I've always said if there is a God he's like Switzerland.. completely neutral.

I was more or less attempting to allude to the tie in of the pain/pleasure parts of the brain and it's interactions in human learning. You learn most things are "bad" from pain, it's our bodies disapline for doing a wrong action. Just like it's our bodies reaction to make us feel nice for what we think to be a "good" action.

It's very much akin to reinforcement techniques used in artificial neural nets - just with a whack load of chemicals and a ton more complexity(as our memories and experience also feed into this system of rewards).

[1devil]

Lifes a bitch, some people get it better than others, I've always said if there is a God he's like Switzerland.. completely neutral.

I was more or less attempting to allude to the tie in of the pain/pleasure parts of the brain and it's interactions in human learning. You learn most things are "bad" from pain, it's our bodies disapline for doing a wrong action. Just like it's our bodies reaction to make us feel nice for what we think to be a "good" action.

It's very much akin to reinforcement techniques used in artificial neural nets - just with a whack load of chemicals and a ton more complexity(as our memories and experience also feed into this system of rewards).

read my last post

[IdahoViking]

Why do we fall down? So we can learn to pick ourselves up.

[Beeewbs]

I'm not entirely sure what angle you're coming at this from. I doubt the existence of God, so I am not saying that God has bestowed us with these faults, or that he shouldn't have. My point is more that emotional and physical pain can sometimes be useful.

I'm coming from the perspective in which this thread is framed: one in which god is the creator of all things. In a godless world, pain is useful in some situations, based on how this world is designed. But as far as a world with a god, it's a very flawed, unecessary design.

[nonAtlas]

I know this has probably been asked millions of times. I understand death. But why is there such a thing as pain? From a broken heart, to a bullet wound, why? What is the reason behind this?

He doesn't. He allows you to live as a sovereign spiritual "free agent", with freedom and ability to choose for yourself to live either for Him or against Him. As such He can't change the rules that He established with regard to our deciding for ourselves, because He can't lie and it never was His purpose to compel anyone to love Him and live for Him. This sovereignty means we all have a choice to sin and to reject His way for Satan's way, and Adam's failure in making the wrong call in that respect means we, as his progeny, inherited the curse he brought on himself.

Yes much suffering is due to the sin and failures of others, but we haven't ever been promised that sin wouldn't affect us. That is why it is such a good thing that Messiah Jesus's power to heal and restore all the pain and losses we suffer is more active now than ever before. Yes life on earth is loaded with tears, but clinging to the Savior proves the right choice because we can't imagine the good things He has for us who love Him and live for Him. If anything the sadness you asked about should fill you with rage toward Satan and make you determined to thumb your nose at him by putting Jesus first in your life. Life is tough but He will reward you, heal you and prosper you for doing that.

[IdahoViking]

I'm coming from the perspective in which this thread is framed: one in which god is the creator of all things. In a godless world, pain is useful in some situations, based on how this world is designed. But as far as a world with a god, it's a very flawed, unecessary design.

Not necessarily. We were created with "Free Will", as long as there is 'free will' - pain is necessary to remind us our own limitations.

[1devil]

Not necessarily. We were created with "Free Will", as long as there is 'free will' - pain is necessary to remind us our own limitations.

Uh I'm very well aware of my limitations. I don't need cancer, or the loss of my family to famine to recogonize said limitations. Come on people pain is a simple physiological response. Dogs experience pain. Do they need this in order to make them appreciate the fragile nature of life. i highly doubt they are thinking in such terms.

[Rune]

read my last post

Emotional "pain" responces can be classified in a similar line though, the difference being that they are more a device for social conditioning.

[nonAtlas]

God [is] like Switzerland...completely neutral.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. He loves us all and wants each of us to be born again and to be happy, healthy and prosperous. Those are the OT promises and they live on, because He can't change His mind; nor should He, because He is love and only for reason of His love did He create us and this tiny universe in which we dwell.

He loves everyone and everyone is His "favorite kid". As such it is a profound loss when anyone tells Him where to shove it and pays for his/her sin through all eternity to come. Just ask any parent you know who has--God forbid--lost a child. There are no words to describe that grief.

[Beeewbs]

Not necessarily. We were created with "Free Will", as long as there is 'free will' - pain is necessary to remind us our own limitations.

That doesn't make any sense. What does the ability of choice have to do with having to feel pain in order to understand limitations? When I try to use telekinesis, it does not cause me pain; when I jump in the air and fly straight up, it does not cause me pain. Various limitations we have do not cause us to feel pain. I can teach humans and animals limitations without pain, and all good teachers educate in this fashion. You don't need to beat a kid to help him understand he can't drive the car at 12, or smoke heroin. You don't need to punch a student in the face to teach him he can't talk during class. Good teachers communicate limitations without pain.

Furthermore, how does getting raped help us understand our limitations? Or tortured? Or starving to death? Or getting cancer? How is that helpful? And again, there is no pain in heaven, correct? Why do we need to exist at all? Personally, if a creature was actually loving, I would think it wouldn't bother to create beings if I could only create them in a world that is full of pain. That doesn't seem very loving at all. I also thought god was omnipotent, but apparently, he's not.


Please address all of the issues I brought up in my posts, as I don't like it when people give super short answers and pretend that it covers everything I said. It makes it look as though you're not really reading or contemplating everything that is said, which makes for a useless discussion.

[1devil]

Emotional "pain" responces can be classified in a similar line though, the difference being that they are more a device for social conditioning.

Emotional pain may ultimately serve that purpose in some situations, but that is still not the root cause of the pain. The root cause is the complex nature of the mammalian brain.

[Jesus_2]

Asking why God created pain is like asking why he created food that tastes terrible. The answer is he didnt do either.

[PickItUp]

Pain is necessary. Nerve endings must sense...and when they are torn apart...the sensation would be quite drastic.


Are you asking why God gave us sensory organs?

But back to the whole: "why do humans suffer?"

It's because we are animals. Animals suffer. Flesh suffers.

[Rune]

Emotional pain may ultimately serve that purpose in some situations, but that is still not the root cause of the pain. The root cause is the complex nature of the mammalian brain.

This statement doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

The cause isn't complexity, the cause is generally some trigger(a sight, a touch, a sound, a memory) that causes chemicals in your brain to be released. As I said before, these triggers can vary widely in people because they are largely dependent on previous experience.

[1devil]

Pain is necessary. Nerve endings must sense...and when they are torn apart...the sensation would be quite drastic.


Are you asking why God gave us sensory organs?

But back to the whole: "why do humans suffer?"

It's because we are animals. Animals suffer. Flesh suffers.

People need resons to justify why bad things happen, especially if they are a person of faith. Personally it boggles the mind that it would never occur to some that with the billions of people, and billions of other organisms on this planet that the odds are that some sooner or later you will just randomly bump into a situation that is painful. It's the same type of randomness that causes some people to win the lottery

[1devil]

This statement doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

The cause isn't complexity, the cause is generally some trigger(a sight, a touch, a sound, a memory) that causes chemicals in your brain to be released. As I said before, these triggers can vary widely in people because they are largely dependent on previous experience.

The complex nature of the mammalian brain allows for these triggers to have the impact that they do. The reptilian brain does not respond in the same way to the exact same triggers. Do you think an aligator is traumatized by the death of other alligators. No their brains are not wired that way.