Lack of respect for female athletes....your thoughts

[NotTooLate]

I've got a new topic for discussion. I've haven't seen this mentioned on BB.com before. I was talking with someone 'who has been at the top levels', Nationally and Internationally, and was told that female bodybuilders and powerlifters get discouraged because of several factors. One being the steroid use but others being lifestyle. Female athletes do not get the financial sponsorship or other help that male athletes get and are looked upon as toys for men. Many of them are forced to survive by doing gigs with men that have a fetish for muscular women. These men pay them hundreds of dollars to let them carry them around, touch their muscles, etc. They are offered gigs to do films or shows in which muscular women wrestle with men. They are seen as sex objects and given little respect.

I had no idea that this went on. I think it's appalling that women have to resort to this kind of degrading activity just to stay in the game. I'm sure there are many who don't but apparently it's prevalent. This lack of respect for women who work their azzes off to reach these levels is disgusting. Why should men reap the benefits of sponsorship and perks while women are subjected to this kind of attitude? What are your thoughts on this?

[namtrag]

I agree with most of your post. But the big reason is not discrimination, it's capitalism. Men buy most of the supplements, so the supplement companies sponsor the male bbers more. A company with foresight should step in, and hopefully will, when they realized the untapped market of female athletes they could be reaching out to by sponsoring women bbers.

[kimsquit]

Female athletes do not get the financial sponsorship or other help that male athletes get and are looked upon as toys for men. Many of them are forced to survive by doing gigs with men that have a fetish for muscular women. These men pay them hundreds of dollars to let them carry them around, touch their muscles, etc. They are offered gigs to do films or shows in which muscular women wrestle with men. They are seen as sex objects and given little respect.

I had no idea that this went on. I think it's appalling that women have to resort to this kind of degrading activity just to stay in the game. I'm sure there are many who don't but apparently it's prevalent. This lack of respect for women who work their azzes off to reach these levels is disgusting. Why should men reap the benefits of sponsorship and perks while women are subjected to this kind of attitude? What are your thoughts on this?

well since you asked...

no one is "forcing" these women to survive by performing sexually degrading acts. Most are well educated and perfectly capable of holding down a steady job. Trouble is, steady jobs don't tend to pay as well as doing fetish porn.

secondly, if you think that only female bodybuilders engage in this sort of stuff, you're mistaken. A number of male bodybuilders do "gay for pay" & fetish porn to pay the rent and if you doubt me, google "Kai Greene" and "grapefruit".

IMO this has nothing to do with gender equality and everything to do with making easy money to support a chosen lifestyle of professional competitive bodybuilding.

[reamade]

well since you asked...

no one is "forcing" these women to survive by performing sexually degrading acts. Most are well educated and perfectly capable of holding down a steady job. Trouble is, steady jobs don't tend to pay as well as doing fetish porn.

secondly, if you think that only female bodybuilders engage in this sort of stuff, you're mistaken. A number of male bodybuilders do "gay for pay" & fetish porn to pay the rent and if you doubt me, google "Kai Greene" and "grapefruit".

IMO this has nothing to do with gender equality and everything to do with making easy money to support a chosen lifestyle of professional competitive bodybuilding.

I think I'll just keep my job.

http://reamade.wordpress.com/

[NotTooLate]

well since you asked...

no one is "forcing" these women to survive by performing sexually degrading acts. Most are well educated and perfectly capable of holding down a steady job. Trouble is, steady jobs don't tend to pay as well as doing fetish porn.

secondly, if you think that only female bodybuilders engage in this sort of stuff, you're mistaken. A number of male bodybuilders do "gay for pay" & fetish porn to pay the rent and if you doubt me, google "Kai Greene" and "grapefruit".

IMO this has nothing to do with gender equality and everything to do with making easy money to support a chosen lifestyle of professional competitive bodybuilding.

It's true that no one is forcing them but male bodybuilders at those levels are able to get sponsorships and other financial help while females are not, which puts the female athletes in a greater position of financial need. When athletes are traveling around the world to shows and training as frequently as they do there's not much room to hold a steady job unless it's something you can do on the move.

And no, I didn't know male bodybuilders did this too. What the he** is wrong with people? I think for males it's not so much of a need but rather a want to do this kind of thing. In any case if this is as prevalent as it seems then we aren't supporting any of these athletes like we should. No one should have to feel that they need to resort to this kind lifestyle to pay the rent.

[bodyhard]

well since you asked...

no one is "forcing" these women to survive by performing sexually degrading acts. Most are well educated and perfectly capable of holding down a steady job. Trouble is, steady jobs don't tend to pay as well as doing fetish porn.

secondly, if you think that only female bodybuilders engage in this sort of stuff, you're mistaken. A number of male bodybuilders do "gay for pay" & fetish porn to pay the rent and if you doubt me, google "Kai Greene" and "grapefruit".

IMO this has nothing to do with gender equality and everything to do with making easy money to support a chosen lifestyle of professional competitive bodybuilding.

Man are you serious about that statement? That is just F'cked up.

[reamade]

Man are you serious about that statement? That is just F'cked up.

Ain't it!!!!!

http://reamade.wordpress.com/

[bulldog71]

I've got a new topic for discussion. I've haven't seen this mentioned on BB.com before. I was talking with someone 'who has been at the top levels', Nationally and Internationally, and was told that female bodybuilders and powerlifters get discouraged because of several factors. One being the steroid use but others being lifestyle. Female athletes do not get the financial sponsorship or other help that male athletes get and are looked upon as toys for men. Many of them are forced to survive by doing gigs with men that have a fetish for muscular women. These men pay them hundreds of dollars to let them carry them around, touch their muscles, etc. They are offered gigs to do films or shows in which muscular women wrestle with men. They are seen as sex objects and given little respect.

I had no idea that this went on. I think it's appalling that women have to resort to this kind of degrading activity just to stay in the game. I'm sure there are many who don't but apparently it's prevalent. This lack of respect for women who work their azzes off to reach these levels is disgusting. Why should men reap the benefits of sponsorship and perks while women are subjected to this kind of attitude? What are your thoughts on this?

Interesting topic! I would like to point out that it's not just in BB'ing, but in all other womens' professional sports. I heard an interesting discussion about this on the radio a few weeks back regarding the WNBA. The basic gist of the topic came to the conclusion that sports, in general, is financed by men. Men are the majority of the people that watch and support professional sports. Few, if any, women athletes can compete on the same level that men do, when it comes to a strength driven environment, like sports. Men are bigger, stronger, faster, freakier and more spacially oriented, lending them to be superior athletes. That being said, the majority of the people do not want to spend equal money to support (i.e., buy tickets, jerseys, shirts, etc.) an "inferior" product, in their consumptive eyes. This leads the marketing gurus to market and support products to drive the dollar from the men's pockets into their own! Most men wouldn't read a supplement ad, and say, "Oooooh! I want to look like her!" They would much rather want to look like Ronnie, or Jay, or Branch. This is what will sell to the men's egos. At the end of the day, it's all about the dollar.

On a side note, I do think that the fitness competitors avoid this pitfall moreso than other female athletes.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!

[kimsquit]

I'm disagreeing with your post for a couple of reasons:

It's true that no one is forcing them but male bodybuilders at those levels are able to get sponsorships and other financial help while females are not, which puts the female athletes in a greater position of financial need.

1. you've just made a declarative statement of fact that's nothing more than your personal opinion based on I'm-not-sure-what but I doubt it's from interviewing any male or female professional bodybuilders. Am I wrong?

2. I happen to know a number of IFBB pro bodybuilders - male and female - and for all of them, getting a lucrative supplement contract is like winning the lottery. Only the best of the best are even considered, so Joe or Jill Sixteenthplace has to find other ways to bring home the bacon.

They can run a successful business like Mark Dugdale or Autumn Raby do when they're not on the competition road; they can make money with personal training like Milos Sarcev and former Ms. O Yaxeni Oriquen do; or they can get paid for having sex.

I think for males it's not so much of a need but rather a want to do this kind of thing.

That's a very sexist statement. I wonder how it well it would be received if I said it about women?

In any case if this is as prevalent as it seems then we aren't supporting any of these athletes like we should. No one should have to feel that they need to resort to this kind lifestyle to pay the rent.

I agree with everything but the "have to feel that they need to...." part. Every single one of them has freedom of choice and are 100% responsible for the choices they make.

[phikappa]

if you doubt me, google "Kai Greene" and "grapefruit".

No thank you.

[Jimislash]

Man are you serious about that statement? That is just F'cked up.

There is a market out there. He doesn't know who I am on here so I can say this, but a friend of mine does "parties" for this doctor in the area. This doctor supplies him with testosterone prescriptions, HGH, and another steroid that I can't remember the name of. And this is just the stuff that he is not afraid to tell me about. So, it is not just the females selling themselves out for the prize.

[bodyhard]

There is a market out there. He doesn't know who I am on here so I can say this, but a friend of mine does "parties" for this doctor in the area. This doctor supplies him with testosterone prescriptions, HGH, and another steroid that I can't remember the name of. And this is just the stuff that he is not afraid to tell me about. So, it is not just the females selling themselves out for the prize.

I am assuming by "parties" you mean gay activity for the AS? If so that is sick man.

[NotTooLate]

Interesting topic! I would like to point out that it's not just in BB'ing, but in all other womens' professional sports. I heard an interesting discussion about this on the radio a few weeks back regarding the WNBA. The basic gist of the topic came to the conclusion that sports, in general, is financed by men. Men are the majority of the people that watch and support professional sports. Few, if any, women athletes can compete on the same level that men do, when it comes to a strength driven environment, like sports. Men are bigger, stronger, faster, freakier and more spacially oriented, lending them to be superior athletes. That being said, the majority of the people do not want to spend equal money to support (i.e., buy tickets, jerseys, shirts, etc.) an "inferior" product, in their consumptive eyes. This leads the marketing gurus to market and support products to drive the dollar from the men's pockets into their own! Most men wouldn't read a supplement ad, and say, "Oooooh! I want to look like her!" They would much rather want to look like Ronnie, or Jay, or Branch. This is what will sell to the men's egos. At the end of the day, it's all about the dollar.

On a side note, I do think that the fitness competitors avoid this pitfall moreso than other female athletes.

That's my opinion, and I'm sticking to it!

It doesn't really matter whether men would look at ads of female athletes, it matters that WOMEN will look at those ads and say they want to look like her! There is a huge market of women out here and I'm pretty sure that women outnumber men in the western world. Women love spending money! They go for every quick fix you can think of and this includes supplements. Just look at the diet market for women. Bodybuilding is becoming an increasingly popular sport in female circles. People are starting to realize that women need to increase muscle mass as much as men do to maintain their health. Any of these supplement companies that don't see a need to target this vast consumer base are losing money!

[NotTooLate]

I'm disagreeing with your post for a couple of reasons:
1. you've just made a declarative statement of fact that's nothing more than your personal opinion based on I'm-not-sure-what but I doubt it's from interviewing any male or female professional bodybuilders. Am I wrong?

I got this from a female athlete in the top 3 internationally. At that level the males had contracts and the females didn't. That is pretty sad.

2. I happen to know a number of IFBB pro bodybuilders - male and female - and for all of them, getting a lucrative supplement contract is like winning the lottery. Only the best of the best are even considered, so Joe or Jill Sixteenthplace has to find other ways to bring home the bacon.

I'm talking about the best of the best here.

They can run a successful business like Mark Dugdale or Autumn Raby do when they're not on the competition road; they can make money with personal training like Milos Sarcev and former Ms. O Yaxeni Oriquen do; or they can get paid for having sex.

That's true but it still remains that female athletes are not supported at the same level as males.

That's a very sexist statement. I wonder how it well it would be received if I said it about women?

Not well lol I meant that men are more financially supported so they don't have the same need as women. They may do it for EXTRA but not as a primary need.

I agree with everything but the "have to feel that they need to...." part. Every single one of them has freedom of choice and are 100% responsible for the choices they make.

I'm just saying that it's pathetic that women, or anyone, would be put into a position of such need that they would feel compelled to do this to survive.

[kimsquit]

There is a huge market of women out here and I'm pretty sure that women outnumber men in the western world. Women love spending money! They go for every quick fix you can think of and this includes supplements. Just look at the diet market for women. Bodybuilding is becoming an increasingly popular sport in female circles. People are starting to realize that women need to increase muscle mass as much as men do to maintain their health. Any of these supplement companies that don't see a need to target this vast consumer base are losing money!

I agree but ironically, the biggest group of detractors against female bodybuilders (as opposed to fitness or figure competitors) are women themselves. How many women have you met at the gym who want more mass? Who don't cringe at the thought of lifting something heavier than a pink dumbbell? How many women get on this forum and worry that they'll get "too big"?

IMO Female bodybuilding is an extreme within an extreme - and I think the guts, tenactity and sheer strength of character they show in swimming upstream against such all-out social pressure is friggin' sexy; but 99.9% of women don't want to look like that and would be scared away from any supplement that had a professional female bodybuilder on the label.

so in thinking about it a bit more, isn't it fair to say that if female bodybuilders don't get the supplement contracts, it's because the product market - other women - don't want them there?

[Jimislash]

I am assuming by "parties" you mean gay activity for the AS? If so that is sick man.

Exactly. It is sick that he would get involved in that.

My son was solicited on AOL IM to pose for a softcore gay bodybuilding site. I believe the perp got his IM address from my son's bodyspace on here, since this is the only place he has put his progress pics. Sickness...

My buddy was approached at his gym through a trainer who was involved in the same activity to feed his AS issues.

[kimsquit]

I'm just saying that it's pathetic that women, or anyone, would be put into a position of such need that they would feel compelled to do this to survive.

I maintain that no one is put anywhere - they put themselves there.

The only thing they feel "compelled" to do is to make good money with as little effort as possible

[bulldog71]

It doesn't really matter whether men would look at ads of female athletes, it matters that WOMEN will look at those ads and say they want to look like her!

The majority of muscle building supplement ads are located right in the pages of "muscle" magazines, which are marketed directly to men! The publications that are marketed directly to women are, for the most part, not muscle building magazines. On the contrary, they are magazines filled with waifish, stick figure, bulimics. The only "supplement" type ads found in mags marketed to women are for "weight loss". The distorted self image of the target consumer is what drives the consumption. MOST women do not want to look like Ms. O, but rather like the fitness models.

There is a huge market of women out here and I'm pretty sure that women outnumber men in the western world. Women love spending money! They go for every quick fix you can think of and this includes supplements. Just look at the diet market for women.

You just made my point! The diet market. Women all over this planet are trying to become thinner, conversely, men are trying to get bigger! How many "average" women do you hear them say, "I want to be bigger"? Usually they are afraid to pick up a weight for fear of becoming "musclebound" and looking like a man!

Bodybuilding is becoming an increasingly popular sport in female circles. People are starting to realize that women need to increase muscle mass as much as men do to maintain their health. Any of these supplement companies that don't see a need to target this vast consumer base are losing money!

Again making my point for me! They are starting to realize, but MOST haven't, yet! It took decades for companies started to aggressively market and develop "bodybuilding" supplements to men! Even when Arnold was "king", BB'ing was still considerred an "underground" sport! If you think that supplement companies are losing money because they are spending their money marketing fat loss supps to women, and not mass gaining supps, you are being slightly naive on the subject of marketing/advertising.

[NotTooLate]

I agree but ironically, the biggest group of detractors against female bodybuilders (as opposed to fitness or figure competitors) are women themselves. How many women have you met at the gym who want more mass? Who don't cringe at the thought of lifting something heavier than a pink dumbbell? How many women get on this forum and worry that they'll get "too big"?

IMO Female bodybuilding is an extreme within an extreme - and I think the guts, tenactity and sheer strength of character they show in swimming upstream against such all-out social pressure is friggin' sexy; but 99.9% of women don't want to look like that and would be scared away from any supplement that had a professional female bodybuilder on the label.

so in thinking about it a bit more, isn't it fair to say that if female bodybuilders don't get the supplement contracts, it's because the product market - other women - don't want them there?

Alright you've got a point there but lets approach this from another angle. They could put female bodybuilders AND male bodybuilders together on the labels and ads and this may not target the majority of women but it would go a long way to encourage men, as well as hard core women, to buy the product. If men, who think women are all a bunch of puss*s and can't build any muscle, see women of that caliber on the products, along with men, then they will say if these chicks gain like that from this product I can!

[OutOfStep]

There is a market out there. He doesn't know who I am on here so I can say this, but a friend of mine does "parties" for this doctor in the area. This doctor supplies him with testosterone prescriptions, HGH, and another steroid that I can't remember the name of. And this is just the stuff that he is not afraid to tell me about. So, it is not just the females selling themselves out for the prize.

That's gonna come back to haunt him one day when he decides to run for governor.

[NotTooLate]

Exactly. It is sick that he would get involved in that.



My buddy was approached at his gym through a trainer who was involved in the same activity to feed his AS issues.

Really? I had no idea that this went on. I am so naive lol

[bodyhard]

Exactly. It is sick that he would get involved in that.

My buddy was approached at his gym through a trainer who was involved in the same activity to feed his AS issues.

Damn that is really f'cked up. I had a bodybuilding friend (well x friend of mine) who started stripping for men for money (but he was gay, just never admitted it)

[kimsquit]

Alright you've got a point there

but lets approach this from another angle. They could put female bodybuilders AND male bodybuilders together on the labels and ads and this may not target the majority of women but it would go a long way to encourage men, as well as hard core women, to buy the product. If men, who think women are all a bunch of puss*s and can't build any muscle, see women of that caliber on the products, along with men, then they will say if these chicks gain like that from this product I can!

I'd buy it, but I'm in the minority. Even in the IFBB sub-forum here, the majority of males look down on female bodybuilders as some sort of weird, gender-confused semi-shemales. Lots of insecure men out there uncomfortable with a woman who can curl more than they themselves can squat. Even bodybuilding goddess Melissa Detweiller gets slammed for being too manly

[NotTooLate]

Wow....just wow...You need to read some 'real' bodybuilding books...you will be shocked by what some males have to resort to...Its only a select few that make any money form endorsements...you clearly haven't done any research before starting this thread because it has more holes then swiss cheese.....

You're right, I started it on impulse because I was disgusted with what I was told. I admit not much research went into it. I was told this by a high level (former) athlete so it was shocking to find out that women are disregarded at that level. I know the men are offered contracts at those levels. I didn't know it was common for men to resort to this kind of activity, although I doubt they do at the top. Clearly we need to support athletes much better and not depend on companies, who only think of a profit margin, to do the supporting.

[NotTooLate]

I'd buy it, but I'm in the minority. Even in the IFBB sub-forum here, the majority of males look down on female bodybuilders as some sort of weird, gender-confused semi-shemales. Lots of insecure men out there uncomfortable with a woman who can curl more than they themselves can squat. Even bodybuilding goddess Melissa Detweiller gets slammed for being too manly

You're right. I've been in that forum Ok, I give up! You win! lol

[ntrllftr]

My buddy was approached at his gym through a trainer who was involved in the same activity to feed his AS issues.

I was approached after a show.
The dude wanted me to move to California.
A free place to live and tons of money.

As you can see I still live in Ohio.

Exit only here buddy!!!!!!!




.

[timberwolf]

I agree but ironically, the biggest group of detractors against female bodybuilders (as opposed to fitness or figure competitors) are women themselves. How many women have you met at the gym who want more mass? Who don't cringe at the thought of lifting something heavier than a pink dumbbell? How many women get on this forum and worry that they'll get "too big"?

IMO Female bodybuilding is an extreme within an extreme - and I think the guts, tenactity and sheer strength of character they show in swimming upstream against such all-out social pressure is friggin' sexy; but 99.9% of women don't want to look like that and would be scared away from any supplement that had a professional female bodybuilder on the label.

so in thinking about it a bit more, isn't it fair to say that if female bodybuilders don't get the supplement contracts, it's because the product market - other women - don't want them there?

This post pretty much sums up my thoughts on this subject.
Male competitive bodybuilding is far from mainstream and female bodybuilding is even less popular. Not sure how its been recently but just a few years ago I recall reading how poor sales were for Ms. Olympia and the powers that be were apparently discussing whether to continue with such a losing venture. It was then that they instituted they rules requiring less mass etc.
In the end, competitive bodybuilding really isn't financially rewarding for 95% of those pursuing it, both male and female.

[jawter]

It's true that no one is forcing them but male bodybuilders at those levels are able to get sponsorships and other financial help while females are not, which puts the female athletes in a greater position of financial need. When athletes are traveling around the world to shows and training as frequently as they do there's not much room to hold a steady job unless it's something you can do on the move.

And no, I didn't know male bodybuilders did this too. What the he** is wrong with people? I think for males it's not so much of a need but rather a want to do this kind of thing. In any case if this is as prevalent as it seems then we aren't supporting any of these athletes like we should. No one should have to feel that they need to resort to this kind lifestyle to pay the rent.

I will be straight forward here on some of the "why's" from a purely average male viewpoint which is what advertizers go by.

The average Joe finds the big titted cardio bunny sexy, not the the ripped highly muscular BB'er.

The average Joe wants to be like the the top male BB'ers because he thinks he will get the cardio bunny.

The average Joe spends money trying to make the cardio bunny think he is a big BB'er.

The cold short of it is money follows money. Same concept applies to beauty products, there are more women being paid to promote makeup and other beauty products than men. Why? Because women by more of it than men. Its basic advertizing 101, spend the money were you will see the most ROI.

Someone once said in these forums that being called a "Freak" is a badge of honor. I hate to say it but in the US that is not a money making title for women. Even male BB'ing wasn't viewed in a favored light until people like Arnold and Lou starting filling the silver screen in roles that men and boys alike could relate to. Women BB'ers are faced with more of a challenge since BB'ing commonly viewed as a masculine activity.

So I put this question to the gal's. How do you make an activity that is viewed as masculine into one that is viewed as feminine? I am sure that once that is done more endoresments will go to women.


My disjointed 2 cents worth of thought.

[bulldog71]

I was approached after a show.
The dude wanted me to move to California.
A free place to live and tons of money.

As you can see I still live in Ohio.

Exit only here buddy!!!!!!!




.

That doesn't mean that he didn't move to Ohio! LMAO!

[ntrllftr]

That doesn't mean that he didn't move to Ohio! LMAO!