For Obama Fans..

[bearfan34201]

Are you worried at all about the Tax Hike that is expected if he wins the presidency?

[EDC]

Not at all.

[bdulany]

no.


edit: b/c in the end I always benefit anyway.

[NJlifter88]

....if not, why not?

[bearfan34201]

If you are not, can you explain? I heard the tax hike will go up a lot.

[HoosierBoy]

There will be no tax hike. He will pay for all of his social programs with his Visa card.

[catmando]

^^^Now that's funny.

[SGMD1]

can't have it both ways...not rocket science

if you want to lower the national debt, you have to take in more than you spend

[NJlifter88]

can't have it both ways...not rocket science

if you want to lower the national debt, you have to take in more than you spend

so aren't you concerned with all of the spending hes proposing? since lowering the national debt is of the utmost importance, shouldn't our taxes go toward that instead of the social programs?

[b.spencer]

No, not at all.

For me, its a simple matter of principle. A sizable % of the American population pays $0 in taxes anyway. Of those of us who do, I have no problem closing loopholes on the "wealthy" or even paying more myself and expanding the tax base into those who pay nothing at the moment.

Everyone, even conservatives, expects gov't programs. "I'm a taxpayer. I have my rights" etc. But, no one wants to pay for them. It's damn time we pay for what we are getting. If that's higher taxes, so be it. If its less programs (just try to cut Soc Sec and see what happens), so be it. But, we've gotta get control of this somehow. Since no one will cut programs, raising taxes will do the trick.

[bbgolfer]

Perhaps a big slow down in the war will lessen the impact on the already huge deficit.

[SGMD1]

so aren't you concerned with all of the spending hes proposing? since lowering the national debt is of the utmost importance, shouldn't our taxes go toward that instead of the social programs?

no, because he's going to pull us out of Iraq. which will cut our defense spending by at least 200 billion a year

[stealth_swimmer]

No, not at all.

For me, its a simple matter of principle. A sizable % of the American population pays $0 in taxes anyway. Of those of us who do, I have no problem closing loopholes on the "wealthy" or even paying more myself and expanding the tax base into those who pay nothing at the moment.

Everyone, even conservatives, expects gov't programs. "I'm a taxpayer. I have my rights" etc. But, no one wants to pay for them. It's damn time we pay for what we are getting. If that's higher taxes, so be it. If its less programs (just try to cut Soc Sec and see what happens), so be it. But, we've gotta get control of this somehow. Since no one will cut programs, raising taxes will do the trick.

Not really. It's neo-conservatives that do. Conservatives may expect some but VERY few.

And you wanna talk about the principle of it, then a national sales tax would be much better because there's no way to get around it. Every time you buy something, you pay the tax. The income tax is the worst kind of tax.

[US_Ranger]

Perhaps a big slow down in the war will lessen the impact on the already huge deficit.

Or perhaps cutting out one of the many unconstitutional programs being run by the federal government will save us more in a year than 2 Iraq wars.

[bearfan34201]

No, not at all.

For me, its a simple matter of principle. A sizable % of the American population pays $0 in taxes anyway. Of those of us who do, I have no problem closing loopholes on the "wealthy" or even paying more myself and expanding the tax base into those who pay nothing at the moment.

Everyone, even conservatives, expects gov't programs. "I'm a taxpayer. I have my rights" etc. But, no one wants to pay for them. It's damn time we pay for what we are getting. If that's higher taxes, so be it. If its less programs (just try to cut Soc Sec and see what happens), so be it. But, we've gotta get control of this somehow. Since no one will cut programs, raising taxes will do the trick.

I don't know how much money you have but I work hard and so does my family, and I am not too excited about paying more to the Government for bull**** programs to help the poor. Wealthy? So when Obama declares 75,000 as wealthy, how is a cop who makes 83 grand a year with four kids and a mortgage considered wealthy?

You know how you lower national debt? You take out the **** load of crap we are in. Take for instance the war which is costing billions of dollars PER WEEK, include that with thefact that we have bases all over the world and you get your idea of where a lot of our spending goes. It goes to having a "presence" around the world.

Complete bull****. Obama isn't even going to pull out of Iraq soon. I live in Illinois and I can vouch for saying Obama has done jack **** for us here in Illinois. All that hope change bullshi_t.

[NJlifter88]

I don't know how much money you have but I work hard and so does my family, and I am not too excited about paying more to the Government for bull**** programs to help the poor. Wealthy? So when Obama declares 75,000 as wealthy, how is a cop who makes 83 grand a year with four kids and a mortgage considered wealthy?

repped. if you've ever met a lazy, stupid, or untalented individual, you'd know why i don't want to pay for them. they sit there looking for ways to leech off others. i've seen it with people i've worked with. my family in brooklyn also has told me plenty of stories of immigrants in their towns who wear name brand clothing, even fur coats, go on vacations, and yet pay for their meals with food stamps. don't tell me that my family owes anything to them.

we owe praise to hardworking individuals who don't ask for anything to be given to them. high taxes have not ended poverty, they've only wasted the money of hard-working individuals.

[nutsy54]

can't have it both ways...not rocket science

if you want to lower the national debt, you have to take in more than you spend

Because, Heaven Forbid, we actually spend less than we're taking in. . .right? Gotta buy those votes somehow

[nutsy54]

For all those who have no problem with the likely tax hikes, simple question:
Are you currently writing a check to the US Treasury each month for all the money in your bank account that isn't needed for basic living expenses?

In other words, are you already "Putting your money where your mouth is"?

[razor ramone]

Its simply economics, by raising taxes you can spend money on programs which will help the poor into work; they will spend more and pay more tax; and in turn everyone will benefit from a healthier economy (ie not rising inflation and house price crashes).

[nutsy54]

no, because he's going to pull us out of Iraq. which will cut our defense spending by at least 200 billion a year

Which is only 6% of our total federal spending. . . Meanwhile, 53% of that spending is the "entitlement" programs such as Social Security, Medicare, etc.

It's not exactly like the Iraq war is draining our ability to fund anything else. . .

[nutsy54]

Its simply economics, by raising taxes you can spend money on programs which will help the poor into work; they will spend more and pay more tax; and in turn everyone will benefit from a healthier economy (ie not rising inflation and house price crashes).

We've spent over $9 Trillion dollars in the last 45 years "fighting poverty". Are we really getting our money's worth?

How about: Stop coddling them with endless handouts, and actually give them an incentive to get a job, because otherwise they'll have no income?

[AdonisSMU]

Not really. It's neo-conservatives that do. Conservatives may expect some but VERY few.

And you wanna talk about the principle of it, then a national sales tax would be much better because there's no way to get around it. Every time you buy something, you pay the tax. The income tax is the worst kind of tax.

The point is everyone expects government programs. I think a national sales tax may be the best way to go even if it means we pay more for our taxes that way no one can escape it. I should note that everything you buy will cost 20-25% more as a result if the numbers my accounting professor has are in fact accurate.

[NJlifter88]

Its simply economics, by raising taxes you can spend money on programs which will help the poor into work; they will spend more and pay more tax; and in turn everyone will benefit from a healthier economy (ie not rising inflation and house price crashes).

its simple economics. by raising taxes, you lower the ability for citizens to invest, which causes companies to shrink their expansion, which costs jobs, rasies unemployment, they will have no money to spend or be taxed on, and in turn everyone will be hurt by a weaker economy (ie less demand for goods and therefore the diminished ability for companies to supply those goods).



oh wait... thats how economics ACTUALLY works sorry i didn't realize you were just typing your fantasy.

[thatolchestnut]

But all those tax rebates...
you know those trillions of dollars...
Spread out over 300 million some odd people...

Thats just free money right? There might be quite a few ambitious projects that Obama wants to roll out, but really the key is curbing a lot of the excess spending that is going on in Washington that does not solve anything.

[NJlifter88]

Which is only 6% of our total federal spending. . . Meanwhile, 53% of that spending is the "entitlement" programs such as Social Security, Medicare, etc.

It's not exactly like the Iraq war is draining our ability to fund anything else. . .

i just repped ranger for his understanding that the federal government was not granted authority by the consitution to fund these entitlement programs. now, i will rep you for understanding that these progams have not worked, so increasing our spending on them will just waste more money and perpetual economic inefficiency, not solve the problem of poverty.

[Callaar21]

Its simply economics, by raising taxes you can spend money on programs which will help the poor into work; they will spend more and pay more tax; and in turn everyone will benefit from a healthier economy (ie not rising inflation and house price crashes).

Will that money REALLY give them a JOB? I think it will be another handout they become to be reliant on.

eg

Why would I want to learn how to fish when you will come by everyday and give me one of yours? There is no incentive here to better yourself for alot of people.

Raising taxes does the opposite of what you propose. A great example I have is one I have lived. Raise the corporate tax and people like tyco electronics will lay people like me off in search of a different country where they don't have to pay these high taxes or our high wages which 25% won't even go to us anyway because of taxes. High taxes can equal losing jobs.

[nutsy54]

But all those tax rebates...
you know those trillions of dollars...
Spread out over 300 million some odd people...

Thats just free money right? There might be quite a few ambitious projects that Obama wants to roll out, but really the key is curbing a lot of the excess spending that is going on in Washington that does not solve anything.

It was "only" $170 Billion. And it was a total political "feel good" stunt that just drove us deeper into debt under the guise of "free money". Guess what: The cash, eventually, has to come from someplace (that would be our wallets).

[NJlifter88]

The point is everyone expects government programs. I think a national sales tax may be the best way to go even if it means we pay more for our taxes that way no one can escape it. I should note that everything you buy will cost 20-25% more as a result if the numbers my accounting professor has are in fact accurate.

of course everyone expects government programs (well, i suppose even that is debateable). however, the number of programs that people expect varies greatly. anyone must acknowledge that there are many people who expect very little from the government and more people who would prefer if the government lessened its activities. it is a bit of a cop out to say "everyone expects government programs, high spending spending is inevitable (i realize you didn't say the second part so don't think i'm putting words in your mouth)." it is possible, if we want, to work in the direction of less government spending and less taxation at the same time. of course, right now, we have a high national debt, which i feel needs to be paid. but taxing people for social programs doesn't help pay off that debt anymore than cutting the iraq war.

[randomhero97]

I don't know how much money you have but I work hard and so does my family, and I am not too excited about paying more to the Government for bull**** programs to help the poor. Wealthy? So when Obama declares 75,000 as wealthy, how is a cop who makes 83 grand a year with four kids and a mortgage considered wealthy?

You know how you lower national debt? You take out the **** load of crap we are in. Take for instance the war which is costing billions of dollars PER WEEK, include that with thefact that we have bases all over the world and you get your idea of where a lot of our spending goes. It goes to having a "presence" around the world.

Complete bull****. Obama isn't even going to pull out of Iraq soon. I live in Illinois and I can vouch for saying Obama has done jack **** for us here in Illinois. All that hope change bullshi_t.

Here, here. I live in the People's Republic of Illinois to bro. There is a lot of talk for not give the wealthy tax breaks, but what salary range is considered wealthy? Also, if any of you guys think that any candidate is going to go after the wealthy elite then you are smoking crack. Who do you think funds politicians campaigns?

[leafs43]

Obama won't do jack sh!t about the war in Iraq. People need to accept that.

All he will do is levy higher taxes to support more spending in social programs, as if we need more of those. That right there is reason enough to not vote for him.

I also live in Illinois, Obama has done absolutely nothing for the state. All he is is a marketing machine and nothing else.