Penn and Teller Bullsh*t - Creationism *vids*

[QuicksandATL]

Why do you say that? what makes you think it doesn't mean it literally? Why is some stuff literal and other stuff not? Why is the story of Adam and Eve literal and this not? Why is the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) literal and the 6 day creation thing not?

Well unless you know of a way to fuse a man and a woman together...

[JAGERBOY]

Well unless you know of a way to fuse a man and a woman together...

Your lack of logic lately is astounding. Wouldn't that just mean that the Bible is wrong because it has unscientific and non possible things occuring in its pages? Shouldn't that lead one to believe its a bunch of stories written by primitive, ignorant men that didn't have TV or internet for entertainment?

You have set your system of beliefs up in a manner in which they can never be wrong. This is very intellectually dishonest.

[QuicksandATL]

Your lack of logic lately is astounding. Wouldn't that just mean that the Bible is wrong because it has unscientific and non possible things occuring in its pages? Shouldn't that lead one to believe its a bunch of stories written by primitive, ignorant men that didn't have TV or internet for entertainment?

You have set your system of beliefs up in a manner in which they can never be wrong. This is very intellectually dishonest.

So you seriously the Bible means a man and a woman must become one person literally? I was being facetious in my response.

Jesus.

[JAGERBOY]

So you seriously the Bible means a man and a woman must become one person literally? I was being facetious in my response.

Jesus.

You said it, not me big boy.

[nonAtlas]

You can't be "the firstborn of all creation" and also have existed forever.

No but God the Son can. The Bible nowhere says that He was created. It does, though, call Him the "firstborn" in the sense of inheritance rights, wherein--per the jewish customs according to God's rules--the first son inherits the biggest chunk of Daddy's stuff and the later kids get the crumbs. Thus it is a testimony to His greatness and glory that we saints receive not only those "crumbs" but also the status of "co-heirs" with the Anointed One:

Now if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of
God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in His
sufferings in order that we may also share in His glory.
Romans 8:17

Messiah Jesus couldn't grant us such a promise were He not the eternal God. He is God; He was not "created".

[QuicksandATL]

Okay. When you feel like backing up your claims, I'll be here ready to assess the evidence presented.

How did Jehovah?s Witnesses (along with few other religions) know more than 30 years in advance that 1914 would be an important date for divine rulership? Though Jehovah's Witnesses at the time did not understand the full implication of events about to take place, the Watch Tower magazine as far back as December of 1879 pointed to 1914 as a marked date in regard to Bible prophecy. And the March 1880 issue of the Watch Tower linked God?s Kingdom rule with the ending of what Jesus Christ referred to as ?the appointed times of the nations,? or ?the times of the Gentiles.? (Luke 21:24; Authorized Version) That Watch Tower said: ??The Times of the Gentiles? extend to 1914, and the heavenly kingdom will not have full sway till then.?

What is meant by the expression ?Gentile Times,? or ?appointed times of the nations?? And how is it connected with God?s Kingdom? To answer these questions, let us take a more detailed look at Jesus? words. He said: ?Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations [Gentiles], until the appointed times of the nations [Gentiles] are fulfilled.??Luke 21:24.

What is meant by ?Jerusalem?? It points to God?s Kingdom. How do we know? Ancient Israel was God?s chosen people from 1513 B.C.E. down to the first century of our Common Era. (Exodus 19:6; Matthew 23:37, 38) Jehovah organized them under a typical theocratic government, or God-rule. Jerusalem became the capital city. It was there that the God-anointed line of kings from David sat ?upon Jehovah?s throne.? They ruled as kings for Jehovah. (1 Chronicles 29:23; 2 Chronicles 9:8) The Cyclopaedia by M?Clintock and Strong states: ?Jerusalem had been made the imperial residence of the king of all Israel; and the Temple, often called ?the house of Jehovah,? constituted at the same time the residence of the King of kings, the supreme head of the theocratical state.?

When and how was Jerusalem trampled on by the Gentiles? The trampling began in 607 B.C.E. How? By the abrupt ending of the Davidic dynasty. King Zedekiah was dethroned and the city of Jerusalem destroyed by waves of invading Babylonians under Nebuchadnezzar. The Bible at Ezekiel 21:26, 27 foretold this breach in the Davidic line of kings by saying: ?Lift off the crown . . . it will certainly become no one?s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.? God?s rule was under restraint until ?the appointed times of the nations? would end. Thus, the Gentile Times were a time period when the nations ruled without Jehovah God?s having a government to represent his rulership in the earth.

When the Gentile Times ended, Jehovah was to give the power to rule to the One ?who has the legal right,? Jesus Christ. Therefore, 1914 would mark the time when Christ began to rule as King in God?s heavenly Kingdom, and since his rulership extends down to this day, it touches you.

How was the chronology figured to mark 1914? The June 1880 issue of the Watch Tower magazine explains: ?The long period of 2520 years and their bitter experience under the dominion of the beasts, (human governments, Dan. vii.) is clearly represented in Dan. iv., by the ?seven times? of Nebuchadnezzar and his bitter experience among the beasts.? So we must return to the baffling dream of the Babylonian king to trace its line of chronology to 1914.

Jehovah, by means of his prophets, has always given his people a prophetic blueprint to follow. ?For the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will not do a thing unless he has revealed his confidential matter to his servants the prophets,? states Amos 3:7. For example, Noah was God?s special messenger over 4,000 years ago. Jehovah gave Noah a prophetic warning of the watery destruction that was to come upon that wicked world. (Genesis 6:3; 7:4) What occurred then was also a pattern of a future destruction of the ungodly during the invisible ?presence of the Son of man,? Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:37-39) So it should not seem unusual that what Daniel traced out for Nebuchadnezzar?s world rulership?his fall and his return to power?was also a small-scale illustration of variations in theocratic world domination by God?s anointed King.

What do we see when we examine the prophetic pattern of Daniel 4:10-17? The giant, heaven-high tree represents divine rulership. The tree was cut down when God?s Kingdom of Judah with its capital in Jerusalem fell in 607 B.C.E. After ?seven times? of beastly rule by the nations passed, the two constraining bands of metal were released, and divine rulership was restored when Jesus Christ began to rule as King in God?s heavenly government in 1914.

How do we know that the ?seven times? are 2,520 years? The calculations are made in a way similar to those made by the Watch Tower Society?s first president, C. T. Russell, in 1877 and recorded in the book he coauthored entitled The Three Worlds. This is how it is done: In Revelation chapter 12, verses 6 and 14, we learn that 1,260 days are equal to ?a time [that is, 1 time] and times [that is, 2 times] and half a time,? or a total of 3 1⁄2 times. So ?a time? would be equal to 360 days. ?Seven times? would be 360 multiplied by 7, or 2,520 days. Now if we count a day for a year, according to a Bible rule, the ?seven times? equal 2,520 years. (Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6) Therefore, the duration of the ?seven times,? the Gentile Times, is from 607 B.C.E. to 1914 C.E.

What reasons are there for believing that Nebuchadnezzar?s prophetic tree dream stretches into our 20th century and finds fulfillment in God?s Kingdom? One reason is this: Much of the book of Daniel involves prophecies that find fulfillment in world rulership and God?s Kingdom after the lifetime of Daniel. Read, for example, Daniel chapter 2. It depicts a multimetal image representing successive world powers that are pulverized. By what? God?s Kingdom! (Daniel 2:44) Or read Daniel chapter 7 where successive world governments are seen as wild beasts rising out of the sea and finally being replaced by one rulership. Which one? God?s Kingdom! (Daniel 7:14) Or read Daniel chapters 11 and 12. In those chapters a king of the north and a king of the south keep testing each other out in a battle for world supremacy until they meet their defeat at the hand of Prince Michael. (Daniel 12:1) Who is this Michael? Jesus Christ, ruler in God?s Kingdom!

Thus the year 1914 was marked for a very good reason. It signaled the start of the righteous rule toward the earth by God?s Kingdom. It spelled doom for the wicked. It pointed to ?the last days? of this ungodly system of things. (2 Timothy 3:1

Let me know your response to this before I continue.

[mojo85]

So this about sums up the argument here, please correct me if im wrong...

Evolutionary evidence: Scientific findings, peer-reviewed research, analytical testing on fossils and the earth surface (Carbon-14 dating, tree rings, densities of soils etc...), The fact the earths continents almost resemble a jig-saw puzzle and can be assembled to show a former continent (Pangaea), celestial distances of light traveling to earth which takes millions of years, evidence of evolution occurring in our lifetime (moths changing colour, lizards adapting their diets)

Creationism evidence: the bible......written by....ummm.....some guy a long time ago...said that this is how it happened.

correct?

[JAGERBOY]

So this about sums up the argument here, please correct me if im wrong...

Evolutionary evidence: Scientific findings, peer-reviewed research, analytical testing on fossils and the earth surface (Carbon-14 dating, tree rings, densities of soils etc...), The fact the earths continents almost resemble a jig-saw puzzle and can be assembled to show a former continent (Pangaea), celestial distances of light traveling to earth which takes millions of years, evidence of evolution occurring in our lifetime (moths changing colour, lizards adapting their diets)

Creationism evidence: the bible......written by....ummm.....some guy a long time ago...said that this is how it happened.

correct?

You forgot about the Grand Canyon. That was cut by the world wide flood in a matter of days, that proves Creationism 100%.

[Galt]

Let me know your response to this before I continue.

IT took you several days to 'feel like' copy/pasting prophecies from a Jehovah's Witness door-to-door fortune telling magazine?

I'm curious as to what the followers of other religions think about you JW's having the right religion based on your magazine prophecies.

Also, how is what you posted different/more convincing than this:

http://www.spartechsoftware.com/dime...#Hitler%20Rise
http://www.cosmosite.net/ledpfram.htm

[QuicksandATL]

IT took you several days to 'feel like' copy/pasting prophecies from a Jehovah's Witness door-to-door fortune telling magazine?

I'm curious as to what the followers of other religions think about you JW's having the right religion based on your magazine prophecies.

Also, how is what you posted different/more convincing than this:

http://www.spartechsoftware.com/dime...#Hitler%20Rise
http://www.cosmosite.net/ledpfram.htm

Actually it took several days for me to decide I'm not going to take the time to type out a hand-written response because I have a feeling it's going to be a waste of time and what I posted does the job just as well for me.

JWs don't have any prophecies, JWs, along with other notable religions recognize 1914 as a crucial biblical prophecy.

[Rockwilder]

Well, whatever the case may be, Genesis and science are easily reconcilable. While barely skimming over that link, I do agree with it. I don't consider the earth to be made in six 24 hour days and I don't believe that all life forms are exactly the same the way they first created. The Bible gives us no reason for believing otherwise.

Biblical prophecies (i.e. dates being successfully predicted with no margin of error) show that the Bible is more than just the words of men. So, if it can be shown that God is indeed inspiring the Bible, then I have no reason not to believe that mankind may have lived to 969 years at one time.

Most people on here are quick to make assumptions about beliefs and don't consider any underlying causes, immediately thinking that the thoughts are ungrounded and baseless.

What prophecies are you talking about bruh..?