Penn and Teller Bullsh*t - Creationism *vids*

[QuicksandATL]

Or for that matter, John 8:58 "Jesus said to them, ?Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.?

Okay? We know that all things were created through Jesus, so of course he existed before Abraham.

or John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.?

When the Bible speaks of a man and woman becoming one flesh, it doesn't mean it literally, it's used to signify unity and cooperation.

or John 14:8-9 "Philip said to him, ?Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.? Jesus said to him, ?Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ?Show us the Father??"

The apple doesn't roll far from the tree. If you look at me then look at my dad, I could say that whoever has seen me has seen my father and it would be truthful because we are so much alike. The request, "Lord, show us the Father," suggests that Philip wanted Jesus to provide for his disciples a visible manifestation of God, such as was granted in visions to Moses, Elijah and Isaiah in ancient times. (Ex. 24:10; 1 Ki. 19:9-13; Isa. 6:1-5) However, in such visions God's servants saw, not God himself, but symbolic representations of him. (Ex. 33:17-22; John 1:18) Jesus' reply indicated that Philip already had something better than visions of that type. Since Jesus perfectly reflected the personality of his Father, whom only the Son fully 'knew,' seeing Jesus Christ was like seeing God himself. -Matt. 11:27.

You can't be "the firstborn of all creation" and also have existed forever.

[jday15]

Wow, I must have misunderstood JWs all along. So you don't deny that Jesus was divine? You just believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are actually three different gods? I thought you guys believed Jesus was just a mere human.

[nonAtlas]

Wow, I must have misunderstood JWs all along. So you don't deny that Jesus was divine? You just believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are actually three different gods? I thought you guys believed Jesus was just a mere human.

Yes and he supposedly was Satan's brother. I can't speak for the JWs but I will speak for God. The Lord is one God in three Persons. This is unmistakable in an honest translation of the NT.

[QuicksandATL]

Wow, I must have misunderstood JWs all along. So you don't deny that Jesus was divine? You just believe that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are actually three different gods? I thought you guys believed Jesus was just a mere human.

Well, the bible calls Jesus a mighty god, but there is only one Almighty God who "exacts exclusive devotion" and that's Jehovah (Yahweh). We don't worship Jesus.

We believe the holy spirit is not a person, but God's active force that he uses for his purpose.

Yes and he supposedly was Satan's brother. I can't speak for the JWs but I will speak for God. The Lord is one God in three Persons. This is unmistakable in an honest translation of the NT.

Well, Satan is a fellow creation just like everyone else.

Me and nonnie disagree on the Trinity, but it least we can still get kicks out of arguing about evolution to atheists.

[nonAtlas]

Satan is a fellow creation just like everyone else.

But God the Son is not a created being. He is the Self-Existent Eternal One.

[QuicksandATL]

But God the Son is not a created being. He is the Self-Existent Eternal One.

Then who is the "firstborn of all creation". I thought most Trinitarians thought that Jesus was a created extension of God?

[nonAtlas]

Then who is the "firstborn of all creation".

Chapter and verse, please.

I thought most [christians] thought that Jesus was a created extension of God

No. His physical body was created such that it could be downloaded by Momma Mary. But His eternal existence preceded that, obviously.

[QuicksandATL]

Chapter and verse, please.

Col. 1:15-17
Rev. 3:14

No. His physical body was created such that it could be downloaded by Momma Mary. But His eternal existence preceded that, obviously.

[tds.Enziet]

Wait wait wait. Quicksand, do you believe the Earth is 6000+/-500 years old?

[nonAtlas]

Col. 1:15-17

It says He pre-dated ALL things and created them all, just as John 1 says.

[QuicksandATL]

Wait wait wait. Quicksand, do you believe the Earth is 6000+/-500 years old?

Hellz no, the translation of Genesis doesn't even convey such an idea. However, it could be argued that the universe is indeed 6000 years old going by the relative time of the gravitational constant of t=1 after the big bang. I recommend reading Science and God by Gerald Schroeder, it's a very convincing explanation.

It says He pre-dated ALL things and created them all, just as John 1 says.

Yes, because he's the first creation, duh.

[nonAtlas]

Yes, because he's the first creation

He is not and that is not what those passages suggest.

[JAGERBOY]

QuicksandATL+nonAtlas = fundy troll love

[nonAtlas]

Thanks so much for that portrait of you, jagoff. I can't tell you how much we all appreciate it.

[curtis999]

What isn't reasonable about me accepting that I think Biblical prophecies being fulfilled point to divine inspiration?

For all prophets, why do prophecies always take centuries, thousands of years even, to be fullfilled?

Please, you must admit that given enough time, you don't have to be a 'prophet' to make predictions of the future.

Why too, are all of these 'prophecies' only 'recognized' after the fact? When skill in twisting and molding general and basic observations are used to make each, in a general, roundabout way, fit?

...I'm not saying that it would be absolutely impossible, however it is quite a leap to base your beliefs on conclusions drawn by imparting God, when His EXCLUSION can result in the same outcomes. Chance, probability can account for supposed prophecies. Why invoke the supernatural when it is just not necessary?

[Less Than 3]

u kno what the worst part is? these people all have the same amount of votes that normal people do. no wonder bush got elected twice.

[Galt]

This thread went from "Quicksand needs to substantiate his claims" to "Bible study between fundy Christians" in less than a page, and I still haven't seen any compelling prophecies expounded upon.

Where is the evidence? Has anyone been converted or convinced in the past pages? Did I miss something?

Typing "false prophecies jehovah's witness" into google turns up some very interesting results...

[curtis999]

Typing false prophecies... into google turns up some very interesting results...

...but given enough time ANY/ALL prophecies will come true!
Be patient.
...and willing to accept marginal, nonspecific, and generalities as evidence for prophecy. You will be in awe!

Lol!

[Galt]

Destruction of cities, along with who would be the conquerer. Daniel's prophecy of 1914, in connection with Jesus' sign of his coming of a world war.

I really don't feel like getting into this, because I know you're too close minded to accept anything.

Bump

Still interested in hearing about these prophecies.

[QuicksandATL]

Bump

Still interested in hearing about these prophecies.

I'm tired, I'll make a detailed response tomorrow.

[shadowwalker021]

I'm tired, I'll make a detailed response tomorrow.

tired shmired

what if I die tomorrow before I get to see the proof? then I'll be going to hell.

[curtis999]

...needs to do some research.

...on the internet.

[Galt]

Destruction of cities, along with who would be the conquerer. Daniel's prophecy of 1914, in connection with Jesus' sign of his coming of a world war.

I really don't feel like getting into this, because I know you're too close minded to accept anything.

I'm tired, I'll make a detailed response tomorrow.

Okay. When you feel like backing up your claims, I'll be here ready to assess the evidence presented.

[shadowwalker021]

Okay. When you feel like backing up your claims, I'll be here ready to assess the evidence presented.

I'll be here to assess the information presented.

lol you sound like a robot

[curtis999]

Robots are really good at math.

[shadowwalker021]

Robots are really good at math.

I wish I had a robot

[HatesFat]

When the Bible speaks of a man and woman becoming one flesh, it doesn't mean it literally, it's used to signify unity and cooperation.

Why do you say that? what makes you think it doesn't mean it literally? Why is some stuff literal and other stuff not? Why is the story of Adam and Eve literal and this not? Why is the tale of Sodom and Gomorrah (sp?) literal and the 6 day creation thing not?

[Galt]

I'll be here to assess the information presented.

lol you sound like a robot

*Beep beep boop boop*

*Assesses Biblical prophecies*

*Does not compute; unable to formulate coherent algorithm*

*beep boop beeep boop boop

[-iLift-]

*Beep beep boop boop*

*Assesses Biblical prophecies*

*Does not compute; unable to formulate coherent algorithm*

*beep boop beeep boop boop

Reminds me of that one episode of Spongebob where they think Mr. Krabs is a robot (yes sixteen)(no I don't watch cartoons)

[( S I C )]

I'm tired, I'll make a detailed response tomorrow.

I wouldn't mind seeing this as a new topic: it could (key word here) bring forth some interesting debate--particularly among theists.