switching from calorie deficit to calorie surplus

[MrCardinal]

Hi All,

I'm new to the board and would like to start adding muscle mass. I'm 5'8" and 24. I have been on a calorie deficit since January 15th and I've dropped from 267 to 213 by doing cardio every day (alternate days between moderate intensity and HIIT) and being in a calorie deficit. When I started, I cut my calories to around 1525/day but after a month I increased that to 1725. I have calculated my body needs around 3,000 calories to maintain (through adding up my calorie intake plus the 3 pounds/week I have been losing minus approximately 300 calories a day for the cardio). My diet right now is extremely clean (I never go out to eat anymore with the exception of subway every few weeks and even then I get a turkey sub on wheat with no dressing or cheese) and is extremely low in fat (my diet consists of skim milk, cereal, wheat bread, egg substitute [I can't eat regular eggs because of high cholesterol], pasta, pasta sauce, veggies and fruits, rice, mashed potatoes [made with skim milk], and occasionally turkey breast meat and fish) and right now I eat around 100 grams of protein a day. I have read on a few other sites to start with 18x body weight in calories which is 3834. I can get myself up to 3600 calories a day Monday through Friday and 3700 on Saturday and Sunday and 200 grams protein. My problem is switching from my calorie deficit to calorie surplus. Any advice on this? I have mapped out a diet for a week and a half adding between 130 and 180 calories for 7 days and then 220 on day 8, 160 oh day 9, and 220 on the 10th and 11th day and that would put me at 3600. Can I start weight lifting even when I am in a calorie deficit working up to the calorie surplus? I am really nervous about putting fat back on and I know a little bit will be inevitable, but I really want to keep it at a minimum. Should I have a transition period of maintaining before I start weight lifting? Now that I am down 54 pounds, I am really exciting to start weight lifting but want to do it right. Thanks for any advice,

Mark

[sieb]

Since youve lost alot of fat it can come back extremely quickly, take small steps to begin increasing calories by 200-500 per week until you start to grow. dont get carried away with online calculators, you just have to find what works best for yourself. another thing, 100g protein isnt enough to gain muscle. make sure to get atleast 1g per lb of bodyweight.

ps eggs and other good fats are very healthy, dont miss out on the benefits they provide

[Northman69]

Since youve lost alot of fat it can come back extremely quickly, take small steps to begin increasing calories by 200-500 per week until you start to grow. dont get carried away with online calculators, you just have to find what works best for yourself. another thing, 100g protein isnt enough to gain muscle. make sure to get atleast 1g per lb of bodyweight.

ps eggs and other good fats are very healthy, dont miss out on the benefits they provide

Yep I actually do this myself to loose more weight, I start with keto and then progress to low carb cycling diet. This helps me tremendously because if done CORRECTLY you get hella a rebound effect.

Its just the opposite of yo yo dieting but it can be a double edged sword.

I first got a sniff of this diet when watching m3 and how much he ate and the weight he lost just amazed me.

[MrCardinal]

I can't get up to 213 grams of protein until I am at around 3700 calories. If I add 500 calories each week, I will go from 1725 to 2250 to 2750 to 3250 to 3700. At 2250 I will be at 120 grams of protein daily, at 2750 I will be around 180 grams daily, and at 3250 I will be at 193 grams daily and at 3750 I will be at 233 grams. Since I need 1g/lbs, would it make sense to start weight lifting even while I am at 2250?

[TheManchild]

I can't get up to 213 grams of protein until I am at around 3700 calories. If I add 500 calories each week, I will go from 1725 to 2250 to 2750 to 3250 to 3700. At 2250 I will be at 120 grams of protein daily, at 2750 I will be around 180 grams daily, and at 3250 I will be at 193 grams daily and at 3750 I will be at 233 grams. Since I need 1g/lbs, would it make sense to start weight lifting even while I am at 2250?

yes you can. right now i am cutting on about 1800 calories/day (not working out this week since i havent taken a week off in months) and i'm eating upwards of 250 grams of protein per day. do you know what you will have to do? drop some of your carbs. I personally think you have a few issues going on right now. first of all i dont think you were lifting weights at all, which would have deffinately helped you lose weight and gain or at least preserve muscle. so my first order of business if i were you would be to start a solid weight training program. if i can suggest one i would say go to www.t-nation.com and check out chad waterbury's "Total body training" program, its a full body program that will really help... or check out any of chad's high frequency training programs. i suggest you do this because if you are new to lifting, it will help train your central nervous system which will allow you to recruit more muscle fibers and get stronger faster. when you are new, the more frequently you can train each muscle group, the better. if you arent new to lifting, i garuntee you will still see gains from that program, because you use big bang for your buck exercises and dont waste time doing the same movements in 100 different variations. training more often really does work and has given me the best strength and size gains of my life.

so after you're lifting, then i would owrry about my diet. i suggest you slowly ramp up your calories, going about 300 calories per week. then, once you're lifting you need to realize that you need more fat in your diet. you sound liek a fat-a-phobic. so besides increasing your protein, you will have to increase your fat intake. use healthy fats such as fish oil, olive oil, flaxseed, natural peanut/almond butter, nuts, etc, but dont be afraid of beef, cheese, or milk, because the saturated fats do increase free testosterone levels, and the cholesterol has been found not to affect your actual cholesterol levels in your body, so eat your damn egg yolks too! as long as you factor in the fat and figure it into your meals, you will not get fat, in fact it will help with recovery, lower your blood sugar levels, and keep you full. trust me, you need fats, and you will just have to drop some of your carbohydrates to fit it in. i usually shoot for about 70-95 grams of fat in a day, and i can split that into a few different meals (so take in like 20 grams at a few different meals or w/e)

how exactly are you breaking down your meals so that you think you can only fit in 100 grams of protien and dont use fats? could you tell me what your diet is like?

[MrCardinal]

This is what I eat.. pretty much everyday
You're right about the weight lifting- when I first started out I thought I could gain muscle and lose fat at the same time and I hit a plateau very fast and since then I haven't done any weights.

Total Calories: 1735
Total Protein: 106g
1 cup Egg substitute with 1/2 cup skim milk 28g
Wheat Toast 4g

Orange
Apple
Banana

Pasta 7g
Pasta Sauce 2g
Vegetables

Chicken 44g
Rice 4g
Vegetables
1 tbsp sauce 1g


Crisp Rice Cereal 3g
Skim Milk 12g

[TheManchild]

This is what I eat.. pretty much everyday
You're right about the weight lifting- when I first started out I thought I could gain muscle and lose fat at the same time and I hit a plateau very fast and since then I haven't done any weights.

Total Calories: 1735
Total Protein: 106g
1 cup Egg substitute with 1/2 cup skim milk 28g
Wheat Toast 4g
**Pretty solid, i personally would maybe drop the milk and add a whole egg or two there(if you wanted same calories there)**


Orange
Apple
Banana
**This is alot of carbohydrates all at once... about 100 grams if i had to take a guess, depending on how big your fruits are. if this was a snack i would drop one or two of the fruits, and add maybe a can of tuna or a chicken breast here. a protein shake would work as well**


Pasta 7g
Pasta Sauce 2g
Vegetables
**Assuming this is your lunch, i would add some type of protein here. maybe add some lean ground sirloin beef. that would give you some protein and fat, two things you need. you may have to drop somethin eles tho if you were to stay at 1700 calories**

Chicken 44g
Rice 4g
Vegetables
1 tbsp sauce 1g
**pretty solid meal right here, assuming its brown rice. 44 grams is pretty small though for protein isnt it? i dont know exactly how many ounces that is... but to let you know i usually eat 6-8 ounces of meat with every one of my meals, which comes out to about 40 grams of protein, even when i was down to 1500 calories per day {Which by the way is a terrible idea, it will **** your metabolism up for a long time}**

Crisp Rice Cereal 3g
Skim Milk 12g
**People can say what they want, i've always gotten better fat loss when i dont eat carbohydrates before bed. i would suggest cottage cheese or a casein protein shake. if you cant do either, then about a cup of milk and a tbs of peanut butter. skip the rice cereal.

alright, so first of all some basic tips i would give you would be to get protien every time you eat, even if its not alot. the reason i suggest this is because with carbohydrates, your body releases insulin to carry the nutrients to your body. when you have alot of carbohydrates, or simple carbohydrates (break down into sugars very quickly) your body's insulin spikes, which causes you to store fat. so if you are having carbs, you want ones that are complex, or slow digesting. your first choices for this would be veggies, fruits, legumes (beans). then i would go for things like whole grains such as oatmeal, whole grain breads/pastas, and brown rice. not only will they leave you more satisfied, but will slow digestion.

learn to incorperate more protein, especially now that you're lifting! i do believe that a person can "gain muscle/lose fat" at the same time when you just start, if done correctly. If you eat slightly over maintnence, or at maintenance, your body will start to build muscle, and you will either maintain your fat levels or lose some fat.. either way your body fat % goes down... if you gain 5lbs of muscle and 1lbs of fat your bodyfat percentage is actually lower than it was before, and you will look leaner.

but thats not so important. i would focus on muscle gain, so like i said slowly ramp up your calories. look back at how i quoted your post i will add some suggestions/changes.

you need to increase your protein. trust me. read an article by John Berrardi on T-nation.com, the man is pretty brilliant, and he can explain in excruciating detail why EVERY PERSON needs more protein. i suggest you completely revamp your diet until you get 1 gram of protein/pound of bodyweight (so if you're 213 you need about 215 grams of protein) and then figure out a way to get 60+ grams of fat per day, and then if you have room add some carbohydrates, best times would be in the morning at breakfast, then after you workout.

easy ways to get protien in: Cans of tuna, cooking a bulk ammount of chicken/steak/turkey/lean beef on sunday night, then putting it in tupperware in your fridge for the next 4 or 5 days, cottage cheese, protein shakes, milk, eggs, deli meats (not the best but its protein and you need it), cheese, greek yogurt, some lean pork cutlets. if you make up your meals the night before/few days before, you just have to grab and go. then its easy to get it in

[MrCardinal]

Do I need to worry about going over in protein by 15 to 25 grams? I can get to 230 grams of protein, but it's by incorporating a lot of carbs and barely any fat. I do have a jar of peanut butter that stares at me every day but I am afraid to touch it (you hit the fat-phobia right on the head). I also have olive oil but am afraid to use that too. It sounds like a little bit of peanut butter and a little bit olive oil can go a far way. I am going to start lifting tonight instead of killing myself on the treadmill and start to ramp up my calories. Would working towards 500 over maintenance be a good goal (around 3500 calories for me I think)? Is adding 500 calories each week too much? I have been losing weight at a constant rate of 3 to 3.5 pounds each week for over 4 months now. Also, should I cut out the cardio once I start weight lifting?

[TheManchild]

Do I need to worry about going over in protein by 15 to 25 grams? I can get to 230 grams of protein, but it's by incorporating a lot of carbs and barely any fat. I do have a jar of peanut butter that stares at me every day but I am afraid to touch it (you hit the fat-phobia right on the head). I also have olive oil but am afraid to use that too. It sounds like a little bit of peanut butter and a little bit olive oil can go a far way. I am going to start lifting tonight instead of killing myself on the treadmill and start to ramp up my calories. Would working towards 500 over maintenance be a good goal (around 3500 calories for me I think)? Is adding 500 calories each week too much? I have been losing weight at a constant rate of 3 to 3.5 pounds each week for over 4 months now. Also, should I cut out the cardio once I start weight lifting?

i'm not quite sure how you're going to get that much protein by just adding alot of carbs. pasta/oats/bread are not good sources of protein, they do not have every aminoacid (basic elements of a protein) so you do not get a complete protein. i suggest you plan this out, look around at your grocery stores and see where you can get cheap bulk chicken breasts, tuna, fish, etc. you will have to calculate out how many calories would be in everything. i dont know how you would fit alot of protein, and alot of carbs, and enough fat in a day. remember that there are 4 calories in a gram of protein, 4 calories in a gram of carbohydrate, and 9 calories in a gram of fat. so if you ate 230 grams of protein in a day that would be 920cal, then lets say 70 grams of fat will give you 630 calories, then you would have about 1550 calories, then if you were to eat about 2000 or 2100 calories you would have about 500 calories left, divide that by 4 and it gives you about 120 or 130 grams of carbs. which really isnt alot. i guess you could drop a little bit of fat, but i wouldnt drop below 60 grams of fat. that gives you an extra 100 calories or so which would give you about 20 grams of carbs, so maybe go to 150 grams of carbs.

then every week i woudl go up about 300 calories. you were on a starvation style diet, just to let you know. i've done it before, and it sure works to drop the pounds fast, but when you come back you will gain fat quite quickly. right now that doesnt matter so much, because you might gain a little fat now but once you get control of your diet and figure everything out, losing some fat is much easeir than gaining lean mass. but still you will have to slowly ramp up calories. by increasing slowly, you wont gain the fat back immidiately. stop when you start gaining a pound or so a week. you would be surprised, you may actually start gainign weight at 3000 calories. then you could increase by small incriments until you got to 3500 if you wished.

dont forget that you will have to figure in a post-workout meal of about 40 grams of protein and 60 grams of carbohydrates... its your most important meal of the day. if you could do a perfect meal it would be whey protein shakes and a fast burning sugar like dextrose, but really any fast-burning carb (white bread, white rice, white potatoes, rice cereal that you like so much) will work, so long as you get ~60-80 grams of carbs.

btw about the fat, you're right, a little goes a long way. 1 tbs of olive oil is 14 grams of fat, so that might be all you need for a meal. 2tbs peanut butter is about 17 grams of fat, which is pretty solid but remember it has protein/carbs in it too, so its abiout 200 calories, just to make sure you figure that in

dont forget to do equal sets for the front of your body and back. so if you do 5x5 of bench press, you better do 5x5 of horizontal rows. if you decide to add another 5x5 of incline press, you've ogtta add another 5x5 of another row variation. same with military press and pullups/chinups, etc. squat and deadlift too! most important lifts you could od and will add the most total body mass.


cardio is okay so long as you make up the calories by eating mroe food. you're trying to bulk now... losing the 6 pack for a few weeks is worth it when you put on all the new mass!

[MrCardinal]

Here is what I came up with to (eventually) get to 3175 calories, although I am going to rethink this by adding fat and dropping the carbs, so I may have trouble getting back to the 229g of protein I have in this:

Crisp Rice 360 calories 6g protein
Skim Milk 180 calories 16g protein

Strawberries 55 calories
Apple 60 calories
Orange 80 calories

Eggs substitute with 1/2 cup milk 165 calories 28g protein
Toast 120 calories 4g protein


Pasta 210 calories 7g protein
Sauce 100 calories 2g protein
Vegetables 70
Whey 130 calories 22g protein
Skim Milk 90 calories 8g protein

Chicken 240 calories (8 ounces) 44g protein
Rice 200 calories 4g protein
Vegetables 70
3 tbsp sauce 135 calories 3g protein
Whey 130 calories 22g protein
Milk 90 calories 8g protein

Bagel 360 calories 6g protein
Skim Milk 180 calories 16g protein
Whey 130 calories 22g protein
Milk 90 calories 8g protein

I was thinking of cutting out the rice with the chicken and mixing the sauce with 1 tbsp oil and maybe a bagel in the morning with peanut butter instead of the crisp rice with milk. The whey protein I bought is EAS 100% Whey Protein that has 130 calories, 2.5g total fat (1g sat fat), 3g total carbs, and 23g protein.

[TheManchild]

honestly, i could nit-pick that to death and try to make everything perfect, but really that is a huge improvement and you will see big gains. two little things to remember:
1) Dont forget to make sure one of those high-carb meals is your post workout meal, and keep the fat out of this meal (but if you have a little fat no worries)
2) dont forget to slowly ramp up your calories. if you jump right to 3100 you will gain ALOT of fat. TRUST ME ON THIS ONE I'VE DONE IT. give it at the very least 3 weeks before you hit 3100. until then just drop a few of those carbs out of there to have a few less calories. nto a bad job bro. you will find ways to get more protein in there in different ways as you get going, good luck with it all

[MrCardinal]

I am going to add 300 calories each week and start lifting weights. It will take me a month to reach 2900 calories, but like you said, I don't want to add all the fat back on. I am going to eat 2,000 today instead of my 1725 and I will have 136 grams of protein today. It it too early to substitute in fat for some of the carbs?

[TheManchild]

nice job, try to get the protein a bit higher still as you get going, about 200 grams would probably be ideal. and no it would not be too early to start substituting fat in. healthy fats will help you alot. sounds like you're getting this under control man, good work

[MrCardinal]

One last thing- is Canola oil a good oil?

[TheWaffleIron]

no. you need to do some research about the role of fat. you are not going to make gains on a low fat diet

[TheManchild]

i think its alright, probably not the best but i dont think its atrocious. some controversy over its health benefits and that it may possibly be dangerous, but i'm pretty sure quite a few people use it. i personally keep my oil set on olive

[MrCardinal]

Can you take a look at the attached jpeg on this thread and see what you think about the way I came up with 1980 calories? Where it says vegetables those are a cup and a half of steamed broccoli, carrots, and peppers with the pasta and then a cup of Asian vegetables (snow peas, broccoli, mini corn, water chestnuts). I weigh all my food, including the fruit.. I have a digital scale that goes to the gram.

[MrCardinal]

I did an upper body workout today and I am at 1990 calories (+/- 10 calories) starting yesterday. My ratio right now is 27.3% protein (135 grams), 21.1% fat (46.5 grams) coming from 8 ounces chicken, 1 tbsp olive oil, and 2 tbsp peanut butter and a little from wheat bread and whey protein, and then 54.7% carbs (271 grams). Right now I am hoping to just maintain and I am going to add 300 calories each week until I start gaining (thinking around 3000 to 3200 calories). I am coming off that 1725-1750 calorie diet where I was eating a ratio of around 25% protein (around 100-110 grams), 6-7% fat (around 13 grams), and 65-67% carbs (around 290 grams). Do you think I will end up gaining fat back switching over to having that additional fat in my diet? I took the recommendations of removing some of the carbs and adding in the fat but I am afraid of the outcome, even though this is probably a lot healthier for me. Thanks for the advice.