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Thread: Too much Zinc?

  1. #1
    Soul Reaver Bakira's Avatar
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    Too much Zinc?

    I've searched on this topic and found varying answers.

    I take a multi in the morning which contains 15mg of Zinc and I just recently bought a Zinc supplement that contains 50mg. I main reason why I purchased it was because of the effects I've read it has on sleep.

    I know not to take it with Calcium since it affects absorption and such.

    I probably get a little more Zinc through out the day in food, but I'm just wondering if 65mg would be too much? I'd take it about an hour or so before bed. The 15mg in the morning and the 50 at night shouldn't be too bad should it?

    Any answer will be appreciated.
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    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Depends on the forms that you're talking about here. Oxide doesn't have a high absoprtion percentage. Picolinate is the opposite end of the spectrum.

    With zinc, ideally you would want to keep it around 40-60 mg. Going over 80 mg can have an immune-suppressing effect and less amounts over can impair copper status - especially in the absense of additional sources of Cu.

    You also need to consider how you are getting it (the form of zinc and noting only 20-25% of zinc is actually absorbed) and what other mitigating factors there are that may be leading to more zinc being excreted (i.e. calcium, iron intake, fiber, etc...).

    50mg doesn't seem like the amount typically contained in a ZMA supp - which is 30mg. You might want to reconsider.
    Last edited by in10city; 05-16-2008 at 04:21 PM.
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    Yes, that is satisfactory. Your body will appreciate it if you add intakes of copper from a cashew source.

    I heavily supplemented zinc during post cycle therapy (120mg) and it inhibited testicular recovery due to increased free testosterone. The same issue presented itself with forskolin. Not really relevant here, but it is effective in training.
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    Depends on the forms that you're talking about here. Oxide doesn't have a high absoprtion percentage. Picolinate is the opposite end of the spectrum.

    With zinc, ideally you would want to keep it around 40-60 mg. Going over 80 mg can have an immune-suppressing effect and less amounts over can impair copper status - especially in the absense of additional sources of Cu.

    You also need to consider how you are getting it (the form of zinc and noting only 20-25% of zinc is actually absorbed) and what other mitigating factors there are that may be leading to more zinc being excreted (i.e. calcium, iron intake, fiber, etc...).

    50mg doesn't seem like the amount typically contained in a ZMA supp - which is 30mg. You might want to reconsider.
    What are your thoughts on this post? I have AOR Zinc-Copper coming the mail and am currently using zinc as arginine chelate as part of my multi-mineral supplement...

    Sup all, some of you could probably benefit from some of these ramblings...

    Zinc is an interesting metal. I've always been interested in trying really high doses of it but always been afraid to for fear of copper deficiency. I finally gave in a decided to experiment with it after crawling over an interview on T.nation with Charles Poliquin who mentioned that nearly all of the strength athletes that he sees to are zinc deficient. Yup, almost every one of them. He would then mention that he treats them with 180mg/zinc per day for two months and begin to taper. I figured if this guys doing it, then I'll give it a shot too.

    I'll be honest these past two months have been a bit of a blur. I've been consistently downing 60mg doses 3x a day of zinc chelate by Trophic. I've been predominantly taking it with protein shakes blended with soaked flax seeds, fruit, and other supplement powderes including calcium ascorbate. I more recently switched to a zinc citrate, and now a zinc picolinate. No particular reason, though I gravitated towards the zinc picolinate due literature stating it was the superior form and it was also more cost effective. In terms of absorption and "noticing" a difference between either forms, I'll wager to say the zinc chelate by trophic was the least effective of all three. But that's a just a gut feeling.

    I at times during these roughly two month period had days of a maximum of 50mg zinc to even 300mg zinc.

    I always consumed a minimum of 250mg of betaine HCL w/ pepsin with every zinc administered. I may have missed this step a maximum of 5 or 8 times throughout the entire process. I also adjusted the amount of betaine on gut feeling, literally.

    At no time throughout this entire process did I feel like I had an adverse reaction or anything significantly negative happening to me. At most was heavy heavy feelings of lethargy and stomach irritation if I took more than 60mg (it seemed) of zinc at once.

    A couple of things I noticed at the beginning of the process that dissapeared towards the end:

    Sweating, overheating after administration
    Thirst, dry throat

    Overall: Great experience. They say the adrenal gland and the prostate gland have some of the highest concentrations of zinc in the body. Well, I'll tell you one thing, if you're adrenal glands aren't functioning right, you will benefit from zinc. Straight up. There is a reason they have high concenrations. I personally don't know why but zinc is definitely "food" for them. I've always had problems with stress in my environment. Not necessarily physical stress, but perceived stress, mentally & socially. I can also feel when my adrenals are being activated so to speak. There is a distinct feeling right where my kidneys are in response to stress and I aint that dumb enough to not be able to make the correlation. Well, after this period of zinc administration. My ability to handle stress has improved significantly. To the point where I've become almost non-reactive. This was a god send as I've been trying to figure out why I experience this kind of phenomena and why I had such a reduced capacity to handle stress. That feeling I get, is much much more infrequent and fleeting at best. It's now becoming more a memory.

    I at one point also felt that I had a lot of inflammation in my prostate area. I requested to be checked by my doctor at one point as I thought I might be developing some sort of cancer or a problem in the future (go spikeTV ads!). He confirmed my initial observation but thankfully it wasn't a problem yet. Zinc has pretty much put my prostate to rest. And thats the only way I could describe it.

    A lot of you are probably wondering about the effects of zinc are on hormones and testosterone and stuff. Well, I've had periods of ED and zinc helps. BUT IT AINT THE ONLY THING. Zinc has a wonderful effect on your hormonal system and testosterone it seems, I'll wager once you've packed enough of the **** into your adrenal glands so that they are running optimally you will have a definite overall increase in sexual appetite and ability, but again, its only 1 piece of the puzzle. I suspect copper has *a lot* to do with optimal sexual fuction. As zinc only seemed to fix 1 part of the sexual dysfunction puzzle for me. MORE ON THIS TOWARD THE END.

    My original goal of taking this zinc was 1) to quiet my curiosity and 2) to see if this **** would help with my metabolic dysfunctions. And it ****in worked alright. Now heres the thing about copper. I had a hair mineral analysis many months ago prior to this administration that showed I was both deficient in zinc and copper. The ratios of other minerals and those as well suggested that my thyroid was underactive and my adrenals were ****ed. I didn't quite understand the copper deficiency as I had been taking large doses of copper during the same period that my hair was tested for. Well copper doesn't do **** for you unless you're adrenals aren't working properly in the first place. In fact, it'll probably quite **** you up. The reason for this has to do with ceurloplasmin which is a copper transport protein that is produced from the liver or something, and it gets its production message from your adrenals. I've always had problems with pigmentation in my skin, (white spots along my forearms and upper arms), I've also always had problems with my thyroid (low body temperature, ****ty response to cold environments), a lot of other small things that involved hair texture, cold hands & feet and poor cardiovascular ability and I've also always had a bit of a sexual problem. None of this **** has ever responded to vitamin & mineral supplementation up to this point and I've ALWAYS attributed it to a copper problem, HOW or WHAT I have never really understood but lately I'm beginning to finally ****in put it all together. Anyways... eventually near the end of this 2 month trial period taking all this zinc started to exasperate (sp?) all these symptoms. My thyroid just ****in seemed to not even wake up in the morning, my white spots seemed to just really become extremely pronounced and noticable and my skin started to get dry and stuff. Thats when I said, K, I think its starting to interfere with my copper (and I was already deficient). So I started tapering zinc, and introducing minimal amounts of copper, 2 - 4mg max, this is where I am now. And unlike any other time in my life, I think this supplementing of copper is actually working. So I'll update on this ****.

    Another thing I noticed during this period of zinc. I once took 60mg zinc before I went exercising (and I'm pretty sure this is when I was at my lowest for copper). They say that zinc accelerates the conversion of T4 to T3 and increases potassium in the cells so that would allow for better cellular response. Well whatever it is, its right. I started to heat up like fin mad, my heart started beating out the **** and man did I feel sick.

    Another word on the adrenal glands, once everything seems to be working right with them, and that they can respond well and u can handle copper supplementation, well, it seems as if copper indirectly starts to benefit the adrenal glands. I reckon it has something to do with the following: copper is also involved in the production of thyrotropin, CuZn-SoD and regulation of chloresterol.

    Anyways, my final note on why zinc is definitely not the only thing in regards to sex drive. Well at the worst of what I think was an exasberation of my copper deficiency, I had no formal appetite for sex, my thyroid seemed to be almost shut down unless stimulated, and all I wanted to do with sleep and not do anything. I think the FUNCTIONING of your sex glands is greatly influenced by copper. There is also literature out there that states that copper stimulates nitric oxide production. INTERESTING? Yah. I don't really got much else... hope ya enjoyed.

    Last couple thoughts actually: No real notice in body composition I've always been very lean. Zinc is soooo important for blood sugar and I could tell it was having a major effect on my own; very positive until I hit the copper drought, then I was having mad ****ing carb cravings for what I think was a subconcious goal to upregulate my thyroid.

    anyways, yah I'm gonna keep this one updated a bit

    Im at currently 0 - 100mg zinc and 2 - 4mg copper. No regime just going on gut feelings for now.

    * One thing I want to note. I think its f'ing dumb of you to start supplemting vitamins and minerals and **** if you're diet isn't already a ****ing A Plus. There is so bull**** food stuff we put into our bodies that probably interact with **** that you take and makes it f'ing useless. Case in point, high fructose corn syrup ****s copper absorption. If you're diet isn't clean already, you're a dumbass for thinking that high doses of vitamins and anything will do anything for ya.

    * And I also think its dumb to just supplement ONE mineral. In this case I was experimenting with large doses, but I also take complete vitamin mineral supplementation; yes that includes boron, vanadium, lithium, and other lesser well known minerals, vitamin c, full spectrum vitamin E, and so forth. I think its imperative to stick with only mineral chelates or kreb cycle intermediates and what not and more importantly to remember equilibrium.
    As posted by Sleigh over at the M&M forum...
    Last edited by lbarber4; 05-16-2008 at 04:31 PM.
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    I get 15mg from a multi in the morning, 30mg from a zinc supp at night plus my diet. As per my research, L-OptiZinc? Monomethlonine is one of the more bioavailable forms of zinc - http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/zinc.html
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    nevigsawkufelgnisaton in10city's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lbarber4 View Post
    What are your thoughts on this post? I have AOR Zinc-Copper coming the mail and am currently using zinc as arginine chelate as part of my multi-mineral supplement...



    As posted by Sleigh over at the M&M forum...
    Looks like he had some fun. He stated the known existence of metabolic dysfunctions so the context is a little different. Even with Poliquin, he deals with top level athletes beating the $hit out of themselves so context again is different. Cycling and other things are being done as well - which most people won't do.

    The problems come in people / recreational trainers with chronic high intake without a need for it.
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    Depends on the forms that you're talking about here. Oxide doesn't have a high absoprtion percentage. Picolinate is the opposite end of the spectrum.

    With zinc, ideally you would want to keep it around 40-60 mg. Going over 80 mg can have an immune-suppressing effect and less amounts over can impair copper status - especially in the absense of additional sources of Cu.

    You also need to consider how you are getting it (the form of zinc and noting only 20-25% of zinc is actually absorbed) and what other mitigating factors there are that may be leading to more zinc being excreted (i.e. calcium, iron intake, fiber, etc...).

    50mg doesn't seem like the amount typically contained in a ZMA supp - which is 30mg. You might want to reconsider.
    The main ingredient in it is Zinc Gluconate.

    Would 50 mg be too much to take at one time? I doubt it would be if they had that much in one pill. I don't want to take too much though.

    I already opened the bottle, so I can't take it back.
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    Originally Posted by in10city View Post
    Looks like he had some fun. He stated the known existence of metabolic dysfunctions so the context is a little different. Even with Poliquin, he deals with top level athletes beating the $hit out of themselves so context again is different. Cycling and other things are being done as well - which most people won't do.

    The problems come in people / recreational trainers with chronic high intake without a need for it.
    You see, I'm a bit intrigued due to the pronounced effects the zinc supplementation had on his vision... 4-5 years ago, I used to have 20-10, but now, due to hereditary factors, etc... My vision is no where near as good as what it used to be. And considering I'm an aspiring pitcher, I would like to improve my vision without the need for contact lens or having to wear glasses, which I hate... I tried out for awhile, carnosine eye drops, but that was mainly due to the fact that my eyes felt dry and irritated... Tt was hard for me to focus on any object, without my vision going blurry and my night vision just sucked...

    I've managed to correct these problems for the most part, but still, my vision is no where near what it used to be... Any who, I guess I will have to continue to research this subject. I definitely do not want to screw myself up, considering I've made mistakes in the past with nootropic supplementation... Where I dealt with heart palpitations and at times, felt like I was having heart attack, but I managed to correct that, too... So yeah... Hmm... And I don't have any medical insurance and I was supposed to get blood test drawn starting back in March, but I ended up quitting my job, so I've been holding off on that until this later this year...
    Last edited by lbarber4; 05-16-2008 at 05:52 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Bakira View Post
    The main ingredient in it is Zinc Gluconate.

    Would 50 mg be too much to take at one time? I doubt it would be if they had that much in one pill. I don't want to take too much though.

    I already opened the bottle, so I can't take it back.
    You'll probably be fine with that amount of that form.
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    Originally Posted by Bakira View Post
    I've searched on this topic and found varying answers.
    I take a multi in the morning which contains 15mg of Zinc and I just recently bought a Zinc supplement that contains 50mg. I main reason why I purchased it was because of the effects I've read it has on sleep.

    U


    I know not to take it with Calcium since it affects absorption and such.

    I probably get a little more Zinc through out the day in food, but I'm just wondering if 65mg would be too much? I'd take it about an hour or so before bed. The 15mg in the morning and the 50 at night shouldn't be too bad should it?

    Any answer will be appreciated.
    I have a good theroy on that. We are always tearing and rebuilding muscle well zinc is one of the best vitamins in the rebuilding process. They say 30 mg is the norm but where athletes and we need extra everything espcially the way I train lol so keep it around 50 and your good man.
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    Originally Posted by walliceed View Post
    I have a good theroy on that. We are always tearing and rebuilding muscle well zinc is one of the best vitamins in the rebuilding process. They say 30 mg is the norm but where athletes and we need extra everything espcially the way I train lol so keep it around 50 and your good man.
    Excellent theorizing young man. I think we may have finally found neuron's replacement
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