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  1. #1
    Banned MayhemMaker's Avatar
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    Is there any really good money in personal training?

    My whole life I've wanted to be a S.W.A.T. Team Officer.

    Then, I found out the ones in my area don't get paid any more then a regular Sheriff does.

    Then, I decided I'd like to be an FBI officer, but I had my doubts ... I didn't have any experience in the feild obviously and I didn't want to go to college for four years only to find out I hated law enforcement ... But then I saw this section and thought 'wow I would love to be a personal trainer'

    I love working out, and as people and common sense have told me your body is your advertising... I plan on being a ripped 185 and if that doesn't lure clients I don't know what will.

    I am quite knowledgable (at least for a 17 year old) on dieting, bodybuilding, powerlifting, and bodybuilding in general, I'd be willing to bet just from reading and searching BB.com and posting on the forums I have a better knowledge of BB related information then 99.9 % of my school of 2,500 kids.

    I love working with people and I don't mind helping my friends out on things when they work out, and they're kind of noobs.



    It just seems like a career I would absolutely love, but is there any money in it ?

    I I live in Nevada, if that helps any ... thank you guys alot for your input and helping me make a possible lifelong decision.


    ALSO, check this out and tell me if it's accurate for where I live, for a PT starting out ... 50K a year right out of college doesn't sound bad eh?


    http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...0Practitioners
    Last edited by MayhemMaker; 05-04-2008 at 08:33 PM.
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  2. #2
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    If you have to commitment, professionalism, ability to get results and selling ability, yes there is.

    You dont just get your accreditation, walk into a gym and start making big $$. You start off small and work your way up. You have to deal with early mornings, last finishes, cancellations and unsteady income. In other words, you gotta pay your dues and work your way up the food chain.

    The majority dont though
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  3. #3
    Banned MayhemMaker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jules_d1 View Post
    If you have to commitment, professionalism, ability to get results and selling ability, yes there is.

    You dont just get your accreditation, walk into a gym and start making big $$. You start off small and work your way up. You have to deal with early mornings, last finishes, cancellations and unsteady income. In other words, you gotta pay your dues and work your way up the food chain.

    The majority dont though
    How exactly would I 'work my way up the food chain' ?

    Would I just accumulate reputation throughout time ?

    Also, I am going to college ... how would a four year college degree help me, which one would I get, and how much would it help me?
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  4. #4
    Banned jules_d1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MayhemMaker View Post
    How exactly would I 'work my way up the food chain' ?

    Would I just accumulate reputation throughout time ?

    Also, I am going to college ... how would a four year college degree help me, which one would I get, and how much would it help me?
    work your way up by continously improving your knowledge by more study/seminars etc.

    Find what works for people and make sure they WANT to come to you each sessions, not HAVE to come to you.

    Of course you will develop your reputation after a while....just make sure its a good one.
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  5. #5
    Banned MayhemMaker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jules_d1 View Post
    work your way up by continously improving your knowledge by more study/seminars etc.

    Find what works for people and make sure they WANT to come to you each sessions, not HAVE to come to you.

    Of course you will develop your reputation after a while....just make sure its a good one.
    Let's say I am a relatively known PT, what is the income possibility ?

    Or is there no maximum?

    I'm just kind of ... nervous about failing.


    Like anyone, I'd like to live comfortably.
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  6. #6
    Registered User John Prophet's Avatar
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    how many other jobs can pay u, say, $50/hr??
    "Humility comes before honor"
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    how many other jobs can pay u, say, $50/hr??
    But the variable there is whether I'm getting paid or not
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  8. #8
    Registered User John Prophet's Avatar
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    well....there r no free rides that I know of. being a PT is like running any other "self owned" type biz...u gotta really hustle at first.

    Your best off to just get a regular education/job and then start pting on the side with just a few nighttime clients to see how u like it.

    let me tell u straight up....at your age u can do ANYTHING u want to do...time is on your side. Even if it took u 3-4 years to really get a nice biz going..so what.

    always plan ahead a few steps...dont just punch a clock somewhere and let years slip by without a plan.

    I didnt start PTing until I was like 38.
    "Humility comes before honor"
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  9. #9
    Banned jules_d1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    well....there r no free rides that I know of. being a PT is like running any other "self owned" type biz...u gotta really hustle at first.

    Your best off to just get a regular education/job and then start pting on the side with just a few nighttime clients to see how u like it.

    let me tell u straight up....at your age u can do ANYTHING u want to do...time is on your side. Even if it took u 3-4 years to really get a nice biz going..so what.

    always plan ahead a few steps...dont just punch a clock somewhere and let years slip by without a plan.

    I didnt start PTing until I was like 38.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^reps

    He's been in the biz longer than me so listen to him.

    Just dont set the bar too high in regards to career how soon you'll be making big $$$$. Dont just think "ok i'll train people at a big gym for a year then up my prices to $xxx.xx per hour or open my own studio".

    the skies the limit but build a solid foundation to grow from.
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  10. #10
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    in reality the average trainer is making closer to 30 k a year
    the whole making 50 an hour part is great but getting and sustaining the business is difficult

    as far as the ceilling goes the sky is the limit
    the guy who owns the studio i train out of is breaking 6 figures

    keep in mind , you wont make 50k out of college , i have spent 3 years training and right now dont make 50k
    my first year was at bllys making basically nothing because of the gyms horrible set up with the trainers
    then i went on my own for a year
    then i find a good place to be on my own so after 2 years of earning my place i found the right fit
    basically it all comes down to your ability to give results and keep clients

    but keep in mind bodybuilding knowledge isnt that useful in personal trainin for a few reasons
    unless you are the top bbing name in your area , comptetive people arnt hiring you
    and non competive bbers dont hirer trainers all that often , the average male gym rat thinks they know it all anyways , why pay you 80 an hour

    i have 3 types of clients that fill my pay check
    kid athletes
    females looking to lose fat
    males looking to lose fat

    and of those people 50% arnt willing to work out more then 3 hours a week
    so a bbing plan wouldnt work there
    50% wont change their diets even close to what i really want to see
    and 90% come to be with some sort of pain (most bbing work outs dont address fixing shoulder problems , they generally make them worse imo)


    on the bright side
    training is a great job , its fun , you help people , you can set your own hours (if you want) you can make a great hourly , and there are other avenunes for money as you get more knowledge (writing , websites , online training, speaking ect)
    my blogs
    howigotripped.wordpress.com
    submissiongrappling.wordpress.com
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  11. #11
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    You're still young. Like what the other guys said, time is on your side. Since you looked into the field of law enforcement, why don't you look into the military as well? If you serve with an elite unit, say as a sniper with the 75th Ranger Regiment, you can learn a lot of valuable skills that are transferable into the private sector as a personal trainer. Other than jumping out of planes, stalking the enemy and putting a 7.62 round through his medulla oblongata (aka the triangle of death), you will learn lots of things about physical fitness which you can use to train your clients.

    If you stay in as a civilian, I would recommend finding a mentor. Getting certified as a freshly minted PT does not necessarily make you a PT. You still have to earn your dues. Look for someone who is willing to take you under their wings and teach you.

    Lot of luck.
    This above all..
    To thine ownself be true..
    And it must follow, as the night the day..
    Thou can'st not then be false to any man..
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  12. #12
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    My opinion, go to college for a 4 year degree in kinesiology or a related field. When you are done, if you still are set on personal training you will have a degree to back up your certification and you'll be 4 years older and built better. If you still like the FBI, you will be able to apply with a bachelor's degree. Also, most SWAT teams are part of a police/sheriff department that aren't necessarily easy to get into either. A 4 year degree keeps your options open for all of these. I've thought about becoming a PT in the past. There are other important factors about a job that you may not be thinking about at age 17 (maybe you have)--FBI and police are jobs that have their risks, but in general they are very stable and come with great benefit packages (guaranteed pay rates, job security, vacation, insurance, pension, etc.). PT also has benefits such as making a job out of a hobby, but I would inquire with some of the other PT's on here about more than just $$$. Such as job outlook, insurance, competiveness, consistency in pay, etc.

    Good luck youngster!
    "I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fullfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious." -Vince Lombardi
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  13. #13
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    how much difference in pay is there full time vs. part time?

    also, i currently make 12/hr @ 40hrs. will my income become lower when i first change jobs?
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  14. #14
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    I have found that the trainers i know- if you love to train and TEACH the money will come- if you are looking for the money then no- eventually you get dubbed a **** trainer and only out for the sale and your reputation dumps. I make excellent money- Very little educational background in training- my degree is in computers- but I love to train- and I love to teach- and my rep is solid and good in my area. i am not out to make the sale or pretend people are going to die or tell them horror stories about what might happen if they dont train- they know they are fat- I dont need to point that out either like I have seen so many do. The clients come to me- and I see this with many other trainers I work with- If your polite, punctual, remember names and keep your damn cell phone in your pocket? Then hell your ahead 65% of what is out there anyway!
    Being different is NEVER easy...see my Facebook page at "Maria Roelle Health Coaching" or check out my website at www.mariaroelle.com If you have questions regarding plant based diet or healing foods, please feel free to contact me.
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  15. #15
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    Police work

    One thing you have to remember is that you don't get into Law Enforcement to just be John Wayne and carry a gun. You do the job because you love the work and want to be around people who have your back. If you are worried that SWAT/SRT teams get paid the same as regular patrol officers, you need not apply. I am a Police officer and a Medic on my team in Washington. We get paid extra for our training time and overtime if we get a mission. So if your local teams don't get paid the extra money, go elsewhere and look. But you have to be dedicated and have focus. If you don't have those, you will never make it. Set a goal for yourself. Find out what you have to do to get there and then work towards that goal. You are not going to be handed things in life, you have to work hard for them. And your greatest rewards come from the things you worked hardest to get.
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  16. #16
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    Absolutely, only if you are working independent, or have your own studio


    Working for a gym is a joke, but a ok place to get your feet wet. Employees dont make money. Owners make money. If you have a strong desire to change someones life, then you will make money. If you are just in it for a free membership, meet girls, and just because it's a job, you will fail miserably
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  17. #17
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    If you're going into PT just for the money, it's gonna be a super rough beginning...and your clients will probably feel it too. You should go into it with a desire to help someone change their lives. My advice to those that ask me about going to college to becoming a trainer: if you're ok with just being a regular personal trainer, get a good certification and get a degree in nutrition. Or get a degree in both...then you can double as a registered nutritionist and go on to get your CSCS which will absolutely put you on top of the field. Getting a degree in kinesiology or just a certification will not ensure that you'll know how to train people...that's something you're gonna have to bring to the table on your own. The last piece of advice I can give you: making money in PT is much more than the quality of your training. You have to be able to market yourself, keep yourself fresh so you can offer quality training, and network.
    One rep, one set, one meal...one day at a time. You build a fortress brick by brick.

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  18. #18
    Registered User UCONN_CSCS's Avatar
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    If you are going to get a 4-year degree in Exercise Science or a related field I would recommend getting a salary paying job. Look into working at corporate fitness centers, hospitals or post-rehab clinics. Personal training on the side will be great extra income and extra experience/knowledge. As many people said, find a mentor, but make SURE they know what they are doing. Many do not and act like they do, selling well isn't the same as training well.

    As for other options, State Troopers, or military will definately open doors for you if you can make it. Don't scoff at any option, and research everything. You can never stop learning for the rest of your life.

    Also, don't expect to make 50k out of college for anything you do. I know trainers who make 120k but they work in rich areas and have proven themselves over and over. They are also extremely busy and still don't have a consistent income at all times.

    Good Luck!
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  19. #19
    Registered User Be-Be's Avatar
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    You have two choices as a pt - work for someone else or be an entrepreneur.

    If you work for someone else, you'll make less per hour. You also may have other duties related to the place where you work. Potentially you might get benefits such as sick leave or retirement or vacation. But many places only hire part time so they don't have to have that additional expense.

    If you work for yourself, you can make the $50 but you have to pay overhead of some sort - equipment, advertising, fees to gyms, etc so your net profit drops. You also don't get benefits. For instance, I'm taking 10 days off in June so I'm having to save up extra money now so I can afford to pay the bills that month.

    Most trainers that I know do more than just training. They have side businesses, run a gym, work at several different type of places, etc.

    Even if you are making $50 an hour, it's hard to put in 40 hours a week in just training plus keeping your client base up and everything else that needs to be done. Clients come and go so you are always looking for new ones to replace the ones that stop training with you. Only about half my clients have been with me for more than a year or more. Also keep in mind that you are going to spend a certain amount of time on top of the hourly rate you get paid for training someone to do doing paperwork, training prep, free intro sessions, etc. You also don't get paid for the time you spend studying to improve your skills and getting certs.

    So it is a profession where you have to hussle and put in a lot of hours. So why do it? Because you have a passion to help people improve themselves and their lives. The joy they feel when they achieve a goal whether its a pb or fat loss or just being able to do a lunge without falling over (I have older clients) give you a high. The satisfaction of figuring out how to help people achieve their goals - coming up with new ways to perform exericises, new ways to explain things so they can understand, etc. Mostly I train everyday, affluent women and weekend athletes so watching their confidence levels and self-esteem increase as they get stronger and more proficient at lifting is just amazing. Our sessions are full of laughter and tears and I'm so proud of so many of my clients because they are brave enough to put themselves out there and try things outside their comfort levels (even if I subtly dragged them there). A wonderful bond and friendship can develop that even occassionally survives after they quit training with me.

    My advice is to pick a target market that you feel comfortable with and work towards specialization. Make sure it's a group of people with money or access to money (such as teenage athletes with affluent parents). Over a few years, your reputation for the specialty will grow and then you won't have to work as hard to get clients.

    My ultimate advice is to explore careers and yourself until you find your passion. I became a pt at 41 (my birthday present to myself, actually) and before that I was just miserable watching the clock, putting in the hours wondering how to make more money because there was no other reward for all that time spent in the office. Life's too short to waste. Figure out what makes you happy and pursue that. If it doesn't make you happy, do something else.
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  20. #20
    Registered User solarize's Avatar
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    Pt in Aus

    As a PT in Brisbane, Australia I charge the following:

    $60 per 30minute session
    $100 for 1hour session

    I have between 30-45 session a week.

    The hours are long, due to the nature of when people can train:
    People either train in the morning, at lunch or after work. You have to decide as a trainer when you can work and who you are targetting.

    I only work 2 mornings a week, as I prefer to train people in the evenings, and I find i get more cancellations in the morning.

    You can make fantastic money as a PT if you are good at the following:

    1. Sales - Belive in yourself and your product
    2. Results - Get the results for your clients and they will keep coming back
    3. No Fluff - Real progress comes from real training, not swiss balls and bosu
    4. Be fit yourself - Image is everything in PT. You have to look the part
    5. Train people you like - If you get along with your clients, its a whole lot easier
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  21. #21
    Registered User John Prophet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by solarize View Post
    As a PT in Brisbane, Australia I charge the following:

    $60 per 30minute session
    $100 for 1hour session

    I have between 30-45 session a week.

    The hours are long, due to the nature of when people can train:
    People either train in the morning, at lunch or after work. You have to decide as a trainer when you can work and who you are targetting.

    I only work 2 mornings a week, as I prefer to train people in the evenings, and I find i get more cancellations in the morning.

    You can make fantastic money as a PT if you are good at the following:

    1. Sales - Belive in yourself and your product
    2. Results - Get the results for your clients and they will keep coming back
    3. No Fluff - Real progress comes from real training, not swiss balls and bosu
    4. Be fit yourself - Image is everything in PT. You have to look the part
    5. Train people you like - If you get along with your clients, its a whole lot easier

    TOP dollar in my gym is $50/hr

    several trainers charge $20/hr session. I started at $20 but am now realizing I am just worth way more than that. I have been GIVING away my 25 years of gym experience way too cheaply. I am going up to at least $35 session and then when I get certed ill step it up to equal top pay in the gym....since I cant justify it to myself that the top paid trainers are any better than me, lol
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  22. #22
    Registered User Sikk's Avatar
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    I currently charge $65 an hour and don't work for a commercial gym anymore. I just pay the gym I train clients in a monthly fee to use their facility.

    I'm still finishing my second bachelors so I dont work 40 hours a week, I train maybe 15 hours a week during the semester and 25 during the summer.
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  23. #23
    Registered User John Prophet's Avatar
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    for reference....there is another gym in town with trainers and they have a different setup. Its $35/session and the gym keeps $14 (40/60%) of that so the trainer gets $21.

    COLA is fairly low here.....im paying $325/mo for a decent 2 bedroom apt

    a majority of people in this town balk even at paying $20/session. regardless I am raising my rates
    Last edited by John Prophet; 05-10-2008 at 08:28 AM.
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  24. #24
    Registered User scrace's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MayhemMaker View Post
    My whole life I've wanted to be a S.W.A.T. Team Officer.

    Then, I found out the ones in my area don't get paid any more then a regular Sheriff does.

    Then, I decided I'd like to be an FBI officer, but I had my doubts ... I didn't have any experience in the feild obviously and I didn't want to go to college for four years only to find out I hated law enforcement ... But then I saw this section and thought 'wow I would love to be a personal trainer'

    I love working out, and as people and common sense have told me your body is your advertising... I plan on being a ripped 185 and if that doesn't lure clients I don't know what will.

    I am quite knowledgable (at least for a 17 year old) on dieting, bodybuilding, powerlifting, and bodybuilding in general, I'd be willing to bet just from reading and searching BB.com and posting on the forums I have a better knowledge of BB related information then 99.9 % of my school of 2,500 kids.

    I love working with people and I don't mind helping my friends out on things when they work out, and they're kind of noobs.



    It just seems like a career I would absolutely love, but is there any money in it ?

    I I live in Nevada, if that helps any ... thank you guys alot for your input and helping me make a possible lifelong decision.


    ALSO, check this out and tell me if it's accurate for where I live, for a PT starting out ... 50K a year right out of college doesn't sound bad eh?


    http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/l...0Practitioners

    First off, if all your thinking about is making money no matter the job then your not going to make any. You need to love what you do and want to get up put in the long hours and hard work. If you hate going and hate your job but your making good money then your never going to increase that because you have no drive. Stop worrying about money 50k is plenty for 1 person to live on, PTs do it because they love and know the money will come not because they think they can make a huge sum of money quickly.

    My dad started off 40 years ago making 30k a year, hes making over 750k now doing what he loves, money will come. You dont see too many kids driving around to brand new BMWs first year out of college so dont think you can do it straight of high school, with your OWN money.

    So basically all im saying is find something you love doing, not something you want to do because they make the amount of cash you want.

    My advice is go to college, be a part-time PT while school is in, and then full time in the summer, you love it then great but the degree in whatever will not hurt you thats for sure.
    “To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don't grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax, and float.” ― Alan Watts
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  25. #25
    Registered User scrace's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    for reference....there is another gym in town with trainers and they have a different setup. Its $35/session and the gym keeps $14 (40/60%) of that so the trainer gets $21.

    COLA is fairly low here.....im paying $325/mo for a decent 2 bedroom apt

    a majority of people in this town balk even at paying $20/session. regardless I am raising my rates
    HOLY ****!, My friend and I are paying 2250/mo for a 2 bedroom apt, 1 bath. But im a couple blocks from the beach....WOW still im shocked at your deal lol
    “To have faith is to trust yourself to the water. When you swim you don't grab hold of the water, because if you do you will sink and drown. Instead you relax, and float.” ― Alan Watts
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  26. #26
    Registered User John Prophet's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by scrace View Post
    HOLY ****!, My friend and I are paying 2250/mo for a 2 bedroom apt, 1 bath. But im a couple blocks from the beach....WOW still im shocked at your deal lol
    this is southern Va bro..this isnt Santa Barbara, lol

    a trainer making $50/session here is living like a king
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  27. #27
    It's later than you think EMISGOD's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by solarize View Post
    As a PT in Brisbane, Australia I charge the following:

    $60 per 30minute session
    $100 for 1hour session

    I have between 30-45 session a week.

    The hours are long, due to the nature of when people can train:
    People either train in the morning, at lunch or after work. You have to decide as a trainer when you can work and who you are targetting.

    I only work 2 mornings a week, as I prefer to train people in the evenings, and I find i get more cancellations in the morning.

    You can make fantastic money as a PT if you are good at the following:

    1. Sales - Belive in yourself and your product
    2. Results - Get the results for your clients and they will keep coming back
    3. No Fluff - Real progress comes from real training, not swiss balls and bosu
    4. Be fit yourself - Image is everything in PT. You have to look the part
    5. Train people you like - If you get along with your clients, its a whole lot easier
    I agree with almost everything this guy says except for #5, which strikes me as entirely irrelevant. The money all spends the same. Whether they are heeding your counsel or not (as failures will adversely affect your reputation, which is maybe your most valuable commodity) in order to progress should determine if you retain them or not. You are not there to make friends (or shouldn't be) and if you're not be paid up front, you're making a huge mistake.

    As regards how much to charge, again, remember your reputation. You are assigning a direct dollar value to your worth, so if you pull the "Earl Scheib -- I'll paint your whole car for $100,", you automatically downgrade your value in the eyes of potential clients. Back when I was training people (I was still in college at the time), I charged them basically what I thought my time in general was worth and towards the end, how much of a bother it was to me. I not only had a waiting list, but was actively turning people away and all of it was through referrals. This may be an extreme case, but if you're good, people will not only come to you, but wait for you and you can basically charge at will. One thing I never did was to discuss with any client what I was charging another client. You seriously do not ever want to do this. Ever. If they somehow want to talk amongst themselves, you can't stop it, but I would not allow them to use it as an acceptable topic of conversation with you. Nothing good (for you) can come of this. In fact, if you ever catch two clients doing this, find out who initiated it and raise their rates as soon as possible or drop them entirely.
    Ongoing Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106420991

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  28. #28
    Registered User MassFreak2063's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    this is southern Va bro..this isnt Santa Barbara, lol

    a trainer making $50/session here is living like a king
    ain't like i'm in heaven and everyone around here charges upwards of 50 per session....in missouri
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  29. #29
    Registered User MassFreak2063's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by EMISGOD View Post
    I agree with almost everything this guy says except for #5, which strikes me as entirely irrelevant. The money all spends the same. Whether they are heeding your counsel or not (as failures will adversely affect your reputation, which is maybe your most valuable commodity) in order to progress should determine if you retain them or not. You are not there to make friends (or shouldn't be) and if you're not be paid up front, you're making a huge mistake.

    As regards how much to charge, again, remember your reputation. You are assigning a direct dollar value to your worth, so if you pull the "Earl Scheib -- I'll paint your whole car for $100,", you automatically downgrade your value in the eyes of potential clients. Back when I was training people (I was still in college at the time), I charged them basically what I thought my time in general was worth and towards the end, how much of a bother it was to me. I not only had a waiting list, but was actively turning people away and all of it was through referrals. This may be an extreme case, but if you're good, people will not only come to you, but wait for you and you can basically charge at will. One thing I never did was to discuss with any client what I was charging another client. You seriously do not ever want to do this. Ever. If they somehow want to talk amongst themselves, you can't stop it, but I would not allow them to use it as an acceptable topic of conversation with you. Nothing good (for you) can come of this. In fact, if you ever catch two clients doing this, find out who initiated it and raise their rates as soon as possible or drop them entirely.
    supply and demand....shoulda raised your prices until you didn't have to turn anyone away. also i get number 5 above....training people you enjoy being around will give you more impetus to get them results
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  30. #30
    It's later than you think EMISGOD's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MassFreak2063 View Post
    supply and demand....shoulda raised your prices until you didn't have to turn anyone away.
    I was able to pick whatever figure I wanted as it was. I turned them away because I didn't have the time.

    also i get number 5 above....training people you enjoy being around will give you more impetus to get them results
    I see a lot of people doing this and realize a lot of people would rather this way. I didn't because it was important to me to keep it on a strictly professional level. Friends inevitably think they should get discounts and preferred status and will give you guilt trips if that is not forthcoming. I was truly not interested in anything like that as I largely considered training people somewhat of a pain in the ass, if convenient and definitely did not want to do it for any less than I was...I never had any problem motivating myself to train, however. Results were a direct function of them doing what I said. If they did not, I would not hesitate to drop them rather than have them reflect negatively on me as a trainer...
    Ongoing Journal: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=106420991

    Come here and open your mouth, S103/Syntrax, I gotta take a piss: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=3569901
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