Lost 10LBS on traditional diet, Going Keto tomorrow but I have one question

[rudolfryan]

I start last month with 175LBS
I weigh in right now at 165....
Now i want to try ketogenic diet and I made my grocery list an hour ago but something is bugging me.
I do lift 6-7x a week btw, so here is my question

Weighing 165LBS, my target calorie intake is 1600 Cal/day

25G of Carbs : 100Cal
0.8G of Protein/BW : 132G of Protein : 528Cal
108G of FAT : 972Cal
= 1600

Now the thing is, I have read the true keto must have your fat intake higher than you protein intake. But How do you build muscle on a protein ratio lower than 0.8?
Will my ratio above put me into ketosis? Or should I just ditched hypertrophy and focus on fat lost first? I just want to build muscle and lose fat at the same time. My Goal is to be at least 145LBS in December.
I just don't get the idea on how our body is able to build muscle on 0.5 ratio per BW, I think is enough just for repair but not for growth.
Please enlighten me

[Mrpb]

Building muscle on 1600 calories? That will be extremely hard if not impossible.

[rudolfryan]

Building muscle on 1600 calories? That will be extremely hard if not impossible.

I did not lift for years, 4 years to be exact. I only stand 5'7. If I follow the true keto ratio found on this website, me building muscle will be impossible

[SugarFree1]

There is no set rule on how much fat/protein you need to intake for a keto diet. The only thing you want to insure is being low carb enough to be in ketosis. Dr Peter Lemon one of the foremost protein research specialists recommends 1 to 1.4 grams of protein per pound while dieting. His one study showed more muscle retention for those that lift taking 1.4 grams compared to lower amounts.

[rudolfryan]

There is no set rule on how much fat/protein you need to intake for a keto diet. The only thing you want to insure is being low carb enough to be in ketosis. Dr Peter Lemon one of the foremost protein research specialists recommends 1 to 1.4 grams of protein per pound while dieting. His one study showed more muscle retention for those that lift taking 1.4 grams compared to lower amounts.

I am currently reading this paragraph "Ultimately, you want your macronutrient range to look something like this— Fats should comprise the majority of your calories, anywhere from 60 to 70 percent of your daily caloric intake. Protein intake should be around 20 to 30 percent of your daily calorie intake, and carbs should not exceed 50 grams per day." Found on one article here in BB.


There are articles suggesting not to bump the protein higher, and just keep the fat on at least 70%. My only concern here is I will be wasting my time in the gym lifting if the ratio of protein doesn't even meet 1-1/BW.
Myfitnesspal goal is currently set to 21G of Carbs, 124G of Protein and 119G of Fat.

[SugarFree1]

As I said many different ways you could do it but my personal view is a higher protein is better. I figure out where I want my carbs and protein count to be and whatever is left goes to fat. Just to add I think your carb count is too low also. Your lifting, you should be able to get away with much higher carbs and still be in ketosis.

[Mrpb]

If you want to be in ketosis protein should be around 0.8 to 0.9 gram per lb.

[repower]

Answering, there isn't a true ratio for ketogenic diet. Standard could be 65% of fat, but it could be different from person to person, depending on goal, level of activity, etc. Only try to keep the protein as Mrpb said to avoid getting out from ketosis and you will be fine (0,8g around)

[rudolfryan]

OK Guys for now I will stick to 0.8g/BW as I also want to get stronger and make a bit of gains even on deficit. I have to take advantage on the newbie effect :-)
Hope I can get into ketosis in less than a week

[JerryB]

You are 5'7" and you want to weigh 145 pounds in December? Sounds like a bad plan to me?

[repower]

OK Guys for now I will stick to 0.8g/BW as I also want to get stronger and make a bit of gains even on deficit. I have to take advantage on the newbie effect :-)
Hope I can get into ketosis in less than a week

Sounds great! Keep us updated.

You are 5'7" and you want to weigh 145 pounds in December? Sounds like a bad plan to me?

20 pounds in 3 months period it's pretty easy I will say. Why do you say that?

[Mrpb]

20 pounds in 3 months period it's pretty easy I will say. Why do you say that?

I think Jerry means that being 145 pounds at that height implies little muscle mass.

[JerryB]

I think Jerry means that being 145 pounds at that height implies little muscle mass.

That is what I meant. I'm 5' 7' and that was my weight when I was 15 years old.

[js007Q]

That is what I meant. I'm 5' 7' and that was my weight when I was 15 years old.

Same here! Perhaps if OP wants to be a welterweight boxer or something IDK.

OP what is the reason you want to try keto? It seems you had some results on a traditional diet if you lost mostly fat.

[rudolfryan]

Same here! Perhaps if OP wants to be a welterweight boxer or something IDK.

OP what is the reason you want to try keto? It seems you had some results on a traditional diet if you lost mostly fat.

I had good result on my traditional deficit of 1000 Cal per day. Lost 9.2LBS in 30 days... Then hit a plateau. I want to give my body a shock.... I want to use Keto to lose most of my bodyfat, down to 145LBS and that will be my baseline for bulking. 5'7 and half with 145LBS has very little muscle mass, it will be just a body of a lean person. From 145 I want to bulk to 165 in 2 years time.

[rudolfryan]

You are 5'7" and you want to weigh 145 pounds in December? Sounds like a bad plan to me?

145LBS will be ma goal baseline before I put on mass. ^_^

[Mrpb]

145LBS will be ma goal baseline before I put on mass. ^_^

With muscle memory helping you could probably gain muscle mass while cutting. But by avoiding carbs and using a large deficit you're making that close to impossible.

Read: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat...g-fat-qa.html/

[psalms1441]

145LBS will be ma goal baseline before I put on mass. ^_^

honestly bro, I would do a slow bulk as of right now. If you were to gain 10lbs of muscle and stay at the same bodyfat you would look a lot different. I dont see it being ideal to cut to 145 only to bulk back up. youll save yourself alot of time and hassle but putting on some muscle now, and then cutting. I understand wanting to be ripped, but cutting that low with the amount of muscle you currently have, then only real difference that youll see is that youll weigh 145lbs and not 165lbs......


just my .02

[JerryB]

145LBS will be ma goal baseline before I put on mass. ^_^

You are making the erroneous assumption you will not lose muscle mass in the process of going to 145 lbs.
Just being upfront, I doubt if you have the skills to avoid it.

[rudolfryan]

[QUOTE=Mrpb;1392916913]With muscle memory helping you could probably gain muscle mass while cutting. But by avoiding carbs and using a large deficit you're making that close to impossible.

honestly bro, I would do a slow bulk as of right now. If you were to gain 10lbs of muscle and stay at the same bodyfat you would look a lot different. I dont see it being ideal to cut to 145 only to bulk back up. youll save yourself alot of time and hassle but putting on some muscle now, and then cutting. I understand wanting to be ripped, but cutting that low with the amount of muscle you currently have, then only real difference that youll see is that youll weigh 145lbs and not 165lbs......


just my .02

You have a very good point right now, which shocked my head. I totally agree with your point but If do follow it, I will be bigger, stronger but not satisfied and happy because I will not be seeing the gains it till I cut down again. I am aware I am taking the longer route but the visual progress I see on a leaner state helps me get motivated. And also one reason I did Keto is to lose fat before I beging on a surplus. I will move my baseline to 150LBS, I guess that won't look that bad

[rudolfryan]

[QUOTE=Mrpb;1392916913]With muscle memory helping you could probably gain muscle mass while cutting. But by avoiding carbs and using a large deficit you're making that close to impossible.

honestly bro, I would do a slow bulk as of right now. If you were to gain 10lbs of muscle and stay at the same bodyfat you would look a lot different. I dont see it being ideal to cut to 145 only to bulk back up. youll save yourself alot of time and hassle but putting on some muscle now, and then cutting. I understand wanting to be ripped, but cutting that low with the amount of muscle you currently have, then only real difference that youll see is that youll weigh 145lbs and not 165lbs......


just my .02

You are making the erroneous assumption you will not lose muscle mass in the process of going to 145 lbs.
Just being upfront, I doubt if you have the skills to avoid it.

On a deficit I believe i will lose both muscle and fat. But how do I actually do a surplus to gain muscle while cutting. Right now I dont even have much muscle size, but keto is working well on dropping the weight on my scale which is nice, I am down to 163.2 today, from 175 last August 15. If 145 if too low, then maybe 150-155 is just right? But then 150-155 on my case right now will be around 12-15% BF

[Mrpb]

With muscle memory helping you can certainly gain muscle in a deficit.

And you look like a beginner now. Beginners, especially with higher body fat, can gain muscle in deficit.

But by avoiding carbs AND using a large deficit you'll make it virtually impossible.

[rudolfryan]

[QUOTE=Mrpb;1392916913]With muscle memory helping you could probably gain muscle mass while cutting. But by avoiding carbs and using a large deficit you're making that close to impossible.

honestly bro, I would do a slow bulk as of right now. If you were to gain 10lbs of muscle and stay at the same bodyfat you would look a lot different. I dont see it being ideal to cut to 145 only to bulk back up. youll save yourself alot of time and hassle but putting on some muscle now, and then cutting. I understand wanting to be ripped, but cutting that low with the amount of muscle you currently have, then only real difference that youll see is that youll weigh 145lbs and not 165lbs......


just my .02

With muscle memory helping you can certainly gain muscle in a deficit.

And you look like a beginner now. Beginners, especially with higher body fat, can gain muscle in deficit.

But by avoiding carbs AND using a large deficit you'll make it virtually impossible.

yes, this is actually the first time i track macros using mfp. I set my goals to lose 2lbs/week, this put me in -1000 cal per day. If 1000 is too big for a deficit, should I reduce it to 500?

[Mrpb]

yes, this is actually the first time i track macros using mfp. I set my goals to lose 2lbs/week, this put me in -1000 cal per day. If 1000 is too big for a deficit, should I reduce it to 500?

Yes if you're trying to gain muscle as you cut, the smaller the deficit, the better your chances of gaining muscle.

Dropping ~1 pound per week should be doable.

Follow a proven resistance training program. Fierce 5 is a good one.

[JerryB]

Yes if you're trying to gain muscle as you cut, the smaller the deficit, the better your chances of gaining muscle.

Dropping ~1 pound per week should be doable.

Follow a proven resistance training program. Fierce 5 is a good one.

Like I said, You need to know what you are doing.