Help with back? :)

[harmdogs]

need some help with my back routine?

first of all my split is

monday: legs/lower back
tuesday: chest and abs
thursday:back bi's
friday:shoulders tri's

i havent really had a good back routine for a while and havent had growth in it for months because ive been neglegent to it and focused on my "mirror" muscles to much

i read arnolds encyclopedia of bodybuilding and in the back section he claims you have to work lat width,lower lats,middle back,and lower back

my lower back seems fine with me alternating deadlifts and good mornings for lower back but my upper back is lagging alot

from some suggestions from the book does this seem like a solid workout

*wide grip pullups for 30 reps on as many sets as it takes for width
*close pronated handle pullups for 30 reps in as many sets for lower lats
*prontated close grip t-bar row, 4 sets of 12,10,8,6 for lat and outer middle back thickness
*barbell rows overhand grip,4 sets 12,10,8,6 for middle back thickness


does this seem like a solid routine to improve my upper back if my nutrition is catered for?

thanks in advance

[Lotto20]

looks like to much volume to me....by the time you get to your last exercises your probably pretty gassed .

Try something like this.

Deadlift 4 sets 4-6 reps
Tbar/BB Rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Pullups 4 sets to failure


try to go as heavy as you can but dont forget form.......

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

looks like to much volume to me....by the time you get to your last exercises your probably pretty gassed .

Try something like this.

Deadlift 4 sets 4-6 reps
Tbar/BB Rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Pullups 4 sets to failure


try to go as heavy as you can but dont forget form.......

ahh thanks for that mate

so you think i should do lower back with my upper back and ditch it from leg day?

[Lotto20]

personally i would yes......

[Gaskicker]

I believe in doing something for thickness and something for width, pull-ups and BB rows for example. I don't know if I would hit a certain numer of reps, go at it like you would any other muscle group.

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

personally i would yes......

oohhk thanks heaps for your advice mate

means alot

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

I believe in doing something for thickness and something for width, pull-ups and BB rows for example. I don't know if I would hit a certain numer of reps, go at it like you would any other muscle group.

so are you saying only 2 exercises for my back day?

[Lotto20]

well for the reps that i suggested you would use a weight where you would near failure on the last rep of the exercise ...

for example

deadlifting you get more then 6 reps then its to light, if you get less then 4 its to heavy....

thats how you make progression.

[Lotto20]

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

I believe in doing something for thickness and something for width, pull-ups and BB rows for example. I don't know if I would hit a certain numer of reps, go at it like you would any other muscle group.

2 exercises is not enough.....you want to do deadlifts they are the #1 exercise IMO for building overall mass and adding some serious mass to your back.

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

well for the reps that i suggested you would use a weight where you would near failure on the last rep of the exercise ...

for example

deadlifting you get more then 6 reps then its to light, if you get less then 4 its to heavy....

thats how you make progression.

so when you say near failure you dont recommend going to complete positive failure?

sorry if i see like im nagging your just trying to get some advice ahah

[Lotto20]

go till failure.....but stay in that rep range with the right weight......

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

go till failure.....but stay in that rep range with the right weight......

ohhk that clears it up

ahah more questions sorry for this

with the pullups i can normally get about 12 a set

so would you recommend i add some weigh and shoot for about 8-12?

[chazzy1864]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

looks like to much volume to me....by the time you get to your last exercises your probably pretty gassed .

Try something like this.

Deadlift 4 sets 4-6 reps
Tbar/BB Rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Pullups 4 sets to failure


try to go as heavy as you can but dont forget form.......

Originally Posted by Lotto20

personally i would yes......

Originally Posted by Lotto20

well for the reps that i suggested you would use a weight where you would near failure on the last rep of the exercise ...

for example

deadlifting you get more then 6 reps then its to light, if you get less then 4 its to heavy....

thats how you make progression.

I agree with lotto. That is how I personally train, for the most part.

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by chazzy1864

I agree with lotto. That is how I personally train, for the most part.

ahh thanks for that, good to know a variety of people are making gains using a method like this one

[Gaskicker]

Originally Posted by harmdogs

so are you saying only 2 exercises for my back day?

In addition to deads, and keep the exercises mixed up. I agree with of of the other posters that what you listed seems like a lot of volume.

[hulkinout]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

looks like to much volume to me....by the time you get to your last exercises your probably pretty gassed .

Try something like this.

Deadlift 4 sets 4-6 reps
Tbar/BB Rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Pullups 4 sets to failure


try to go as heavy as you can but dont forget form.......

Good suggestion.

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

I believe in doing something for thickness and something for width, pull-ups and BB rows for example. I don't know if I would hit a certain numer of reps, go at it like you would any other muscle group.

I agree with this, and the above routine would cover that.

As far as lower back, if you're squatting, your lower back is brought into play enough, and if you're deadlifting (either regular, RDL's, SLDL's, or any combo thereof), it's also coming into play. I don't think you need specific lower back work beyond that, at this point anyway.

See how the above routine works for you. I started out with something similar when I started building. After a while, I split my back into two separate days because I wanted it to respond quicker, which it did. One day was just for width (pullups/pulldowns, pullovers), and one day for thickness (traditional deadlifts or rack pulls, and row variations). I've never felt a need to have a lower back workout, since, again squats, RDL's and deadlifts seem to take care of it sufficiently.

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

In addition to deads, and keep the exercises mixed up. I agree with of of the other posters that what you listed seems like a lot of volume.

oh ohhk thanks for clearing that up

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by hulkinout

Good suggestion.



I agree with this, and the above routine would cover that.

As far as lower back, if you're squatting, your lower back is brought into play enough, and if you're deadlifting (either regular, RDL's, SLDL's, or any combo thereof), it's also coming into play. I don't think you need specific lower back work beyond that, at this point anyway.

See how the above routine works for you. I started out with something similar when I started building. After a while, I split my back into two separate days because I wanted it to respond quicker, which it did. One day was just for width (pullups/pulldowns, pullovers), and one day for thickness (traditional deadlifts or rack pulls, and row variations). I've never felt a need to have a lower back workout, since, again squats, RDL's and deadlifts seem to take care of it sufficiently.

ahhh that clears up the my thoughts about doing lower back specifically because the doms i get last a considerable amout of days and really interupt my rugby

how long do you think i should stay on this routine for before making change?

possibly to a split like yours because i really feel i need to bring my back out alot more after neglecting it for so long

[Gaskicker]

Originally Posted by Lotto20

looks like to much volume to me....by the time you get to your last exercises your probably pretty gassed .

Try something like this.

Deadlift 4 sets 4-6 reps
Tbar/BB Rows 4 sets 8-10 reps
Pullups 4 sets to failure


try to go as heavy as you can but dont forget form.......

This is exactly my routine right now. Deads, for a couple heavy sets, then T-bar rows, my new gym has a chest supported t-bar row bench, then pullups, the last few sets weighted. For ****s and giggles I do shrugs with at the end of my deadlift sets.

[Gaskicker]

Stay on it til you hit a plateau like you would anything, you can mix it up from time to time. If my pullups start leveling off, I may do an underhand grip, or just change the grip. If rows start to plateau, I might do BB rows, or DB rows.

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

This is exactly my routine right now. Deads, for a couple heavy sets, then T-bar rows, my new gym has a chest supported t-bar row bench, then pullups, the last few sets weighted. For ****s and giggles I do shrugs with at the end of my deadlift sets.

ahh good too see more and more people using this routine

boosts my my confidence and motivation to use it

[harmdogs]

Originally Posted by Gaskicker

Stay on it til you hit a plateau like you would anything, you can mix it up from time to time. If my pullups start leveling off, I may do an underhand grip, or just change the grip. If rows start to plateau, I might do BB rows, or DB rows.

thanks for that mate,ive been very hesitant to change a program in my life ahhaha if i get initial gains i dont seem to change

but reading that makes complete sense

thanks heaps

[chazzy1864]

Originally Posted by harmdogs

thanks for that mate,ive been very hesitant to change a program in my life ahhaha if i get initial gains i dont seem to change

but reading that makes complete sense

thanks heaps

I would recommend keeping the same rough draft of the workout, just varying things.

Don't always do pull ups and t-bar rows. DOn't always do deadlifts. Just do like general exercises likeit.

So one workout, do the tbar row, pull ups and deadlifts.

Next one, you can do v-grip lat pull down, bent over bar bell row, and squats.

then v-grip cable row, wide grip lat pulldown, romanian deadlifts.

Etc, etc. Can be small tweaks, but that will help keep your body from falling into a plateau.

[Gaskicker]

I disagree, change is good, but I think a guy is better off sticking with something long enough to make progress, change when it slows or stops. I also feel you will gain a lot more muscle with free weights, barbells, dumbells and your bodyweight over cables.