SUPPLEMENTS may be RISKY? (good point)

[tdub27]

Cliffs at bottom
We were talking about steroids, smoking, drinking and all that crap and some kid brought up supplements. The teacher made a comparison to smoking and tanning. Back when there were no studies or anything, people would sit out with baby oil all over themselves, and now it turns out that most of those people have skin cancer. But those people had no clue back then because there was no knowledge about it. Then he talked about the same thing but with smoking. It began to get "popular" and tons of people started doing it. Now it turns out a lot of those people have lung cancer. And of course they did it because there were no known health risks.

So he said that this could be the same "pattern". Everyone is just starting to get big on supplements like creatine and whey and stuff. Nobody has been using creatine for a long enough period to know any LONG TERM health risks. Do you see what I am saying? WE COULD BE THE "STUPID GENERATION" that does this stuff and later our kids are talking about us like I am talking about my parents' generation.

I am not totally agreeing but it does make me hesitate a little bit. I hope I got the point across without confusing anyone.


Cliffs
Health teacher says we could be the "lab rat" for supplements because nobody has been using them long enough to know of any long term health risks, just like when people started smoking and tanning w/ baby oil all over.

[ltaverne07]

agreed, except whey. its just protein.

[tdub27]

wow at least I got one person to agree. I thought I would be flamed within 2 minutes

[tdub27]

bump

[bigshayet]

Let's see why her comparisons were faulty.

For starters, cigarettes contain Nicotene, the addictive chemical. This makes the users buy the product more and more without stop. Their body feels a need to consume more and more. It also contains tobacco, which has been known for quite a while now to cause breathing problems and lung disorders when inhaled, and gum disease/disorders when chewed
- Compared to Whey protein, which has no addictive chemicals and is derived from dairy, there are also the compounds and what it is made from to look at on the label, with no warnings to health or risks taken. I'm pretty sure that throws out the cigarette argument. Now toward the Sun.


The sun has ultraviolet light and radiation. This, obviously, is hazardous to the skin. Our body even lets us know that by getting the sensation of "burning" in the sun, hence "Sun burn". Too much exposure will damage the skin, causing skin cancer and premature skin aging.
- Again, let's take whey for example. I'm pretty sure dairy products (when used in moderation) do not harm us (lactose intolerant aside). This is what whey is derived from. My skin is burning or peeling because of my whey usage.

Your teacher's arguments weren't the best.

[10TonBrick]

fail

[tdub27]

Let's see why her comparisons were faulty.

For starters, cigarettes contain Nicotene, the addictive chemical. This makes the users buy the product more and more without stop. Their body feels a need to consume more and more. It also contains tobacco, which has been known for quite a while now to cause breathing problems and lung disorders when inhaled, and gum disease/disorders when chewed
- Compared to Whey protein, which has no addictive chemicals and is derived from dairy, there are also the compounds and what it is made from to look at on the label, with no warnings to health or risks taken. I'm pretty sure that throws out the cigarette argument. Now toward the Sun.


The sun has ultraviolet light and radiation. This, obviously, is hazardous to the skin. Our body even lets us know that by getting the sensation of "burning" in the sun, hence "Sun burn". Too much exposure will damage the skin, causing skin cancer and premature skin aging.
- Again, let's take whey for example. I'm pretty sure dairy products (when used in moderation) do not harm us (lactose intolerant aside). This is what whey is derived from. My skin is burning or peeling because of my whey usage.

Your teacher's arguments weren't the best.

I guess I didn't get my point across. I didn't say we were going to get sunburn from whey. let's throw whey out of the picture. Creatine has not been used long enough for us to know ANY long term effects. So why would you just deny the argument totally when you have no clue what any effects could be? I am just saying that we could be the ones that use this stuff too much and do something (idk what) to our bodies because of the supps. So we could be the "dummy generation" that lets people learn from our mistakes. And I never said I agreed

[T3mpest]

I guess I didn't get my point across. I didn't say we were going to get sunburn from whey. let's throw whey out of the picture. Creatine has not been used long enough for us to know ANY long term effects. So why would you just deny the argument totally when you have no clue what any effects could be?

creatine is found naturally in the meat you eat everyday. Your not getting anything your body wasn't designed to handle (we are carnivores) your simply getting it in a form that is convenient.

[purdy4512]

our current technology in medical science with which to conduct studies is much much better than the medical science when people tanned and smoked. that being said, you could have a small point. however, it's also possible that cell phones and video games will kill anyone who uses them in 20 years. we are the lab rats for all new products, period.

[bigshayet]

I guess I didn't get my point across. I didn't say we were going to get sunburn from whey. let's throw whey out of the picture. Creatine has not been used long enough for us to know ANY long term effects. So why would you just deny the argument totally when you have no clue what any effects could be?

Creatine is NATURALLY produced within the body my friend, around 2 grams a day per adult. Do you even know how, why or where creatine is located within your body? Heres a simple rundown: Creatine is stored within the muscles. During work outs or heavy exercises, your muscles use up the creatine, but not in the same way they use glycogen. It's more of a crutch, not a main energy soruce. The more creatine, the more crutches, the easier the work load. Do you understand?

Again, another failure of an argument. It's the ignorance of the general public that fills your mind with this bull****. Tell them to do a little research THEN try to trash supplemental items.

[tdub27]

fail

ok?

[AgEnT-]

its a good argument, but nothing that should scare people. as said protein isnt harmful, and creatine is naturally produced. you might be aiming this at other products other than creatine/whey.

[tdub27]

Creatine is NATURALLY produced within the body my friend, around 2 grams a day per adult. Do you even know how, why or where creatine is located within your body? Heres a simple rundown: Creatine is stored within the muscles. During work outs or heavy exercises, your muscles use up the creatine, but not in the same way they use glycogen. It's more of a crutch, not a main energy soruce. The more creatine, the more crutches, the easier the work load. Do you understand?

Again, another failure of an argument.

Yeah but we don't produce as much as we put into our bodies when we take the supp....Why would people take it if our body produced enough? And yes I know about all that ATP stuff

[Xamine]

...lol

[tdub27]

its a good argument, but nothing that should scare people. as said protein isnt harmful, and creatine is naturally produced. you might be aiming this at other products other than creatine/whey.

Yeah I know, I shouldn't have said anything about whey...

[echoareone]

Creatine is NATURALLY produced within the body my friend, around 2 grams a day per adult. Do you even know how, why or where creatine is located within your body? Heres a simple rundown: Creatine is stored within the muscles. During work outs or heavy exercises, your muscles use up the creatine, but not in the same way they use glycogen. It's more of a crutch, not a main energy soruce. The more creatine, the more crutches, the easier the work load. Do you understand?

Again, another failure of an argument. It's the ignorance of the general public that fills your mind with this bull****. Tell them to do a little research THEN try to trash supplemental items.

Science FTW shaye!

[tdub27]

our current technology in medical science with which to conduct studies is much much better than the medical science when people tanned and smoked. that being said, you could have a small point. however, it's also possible that cell phones and video games will kill anyone who uses them in 20 years. we are the lab rats for all new products, period.

so is that a partial agreement?

[bigshayet]

Yeah but we don't produce as much as we put into our bodies when we take the supp....Why would people take it if our body produced enough? And yes I know about all that ATP stuff

Simple, to lighten the burden, the workload of the exercise. 2g is perfect for your average joe couch potato, but we are Bodybuilders, this is a BODYBUILDING website. The more creatine loaded/stored, the more that can be used during a workout my brother, just giving you an extra edge.

It's a sport just like any other out there, with products that help and harm, one must know how and why they are used.

[tdub27]

Simple, to lighten the burden, the workload of the exercise. 2g is perfect for your average joe couch potato, but we are Bodybuilders, this is a BODYBUILDING website. The more creatine loaded/stored, the more that can be used during a workout my brother, just giving you an extra edge.

It's a sport just like any other out there, with products that help and harm, one must know how and why they are used.

Ok that is a good point....I am not going to bash it and all that sh*t. I never said I agreed, so theres no need to get fired up

[Tweed]

Creatine is NATURALLY produced within the body my friend, around 2 grams a day per adult. Do you even know how, why or where creatine is located within your body? Heres a simple rundown: Creatine is stored within the muscles. During work outs or heavy exercises, your muscles use up the creatine, but not in the same way they use glycogen. It's more of a crutch, not a main energy soruce. The more creatine, the more crutches, the easier the work load. Do you understand?

Again, another failure of an argument. It's the ignorance of the general public that fills your mind with this bull****. Tell them to do a little research THEN try to trash supplemental items.

Well said.

[bigshayet]

Ok that is a good point....I am not going to bash it and all that sh*t. I never said I agreed, so theres no need to get fired up

Wasn't fired up at all, we cool bro. I just like to get my point across. This was a fun argument btw, remind me to rep you.

[tdub27]

Wasn't fired up at all, we cool bro. I just like to get my point across. This was a fun argument btw, remind me to rep you.

aight I'm the same way

[tdub27]

bump...any other thoughts?

[user654415165]

Creatine is NATURALLY produced within the body my friend, around 2 grams a day per adult. Do you even know how, why or where creatine is located within your body? Heres a simple rundown: Creatine is stored within the muscles. During work outs or heavy exercises, your muscles use up the creatine, but not in the same way they use glycogen. It's more of a crutch, not a main energy soruce. The more creatine, the more crutches, the easier the work load. Do you understand?

Again, another failure of an argument. It's the ignorance of the general public that fills your mind with this bull****. Tell them to do a little research THEN try to trash supplemental items.

Your arguments are all faulty.

You don't need to get sun burned to get skin cancer. If you just tanned responsibly every day for 20 years you could not get burnt once but still be at risk for melanoma.

You say that cigarettes don't count because they have added nicotene. Well guess what, even cigarettes without added nicotene will kill you. At one point no one thought any better of it and they are paying for it now.

The same way, just becuase your naturally produced creatine doesn't hurt you doesn't mean exogenous compounds that mimic the bodys own production cannot be harmful. The easiest example, testosterone. Using exogenous testosterone(steroids) has all kinds of long term health risks yet testosterone naturally in the body is not a big deal.

To think that science has reached its peak shows a lot of hubris. That is the kind of attitude that leads to disasters. Don't you think every generation before us thought the same thing? Of course the present is always the pinnacle of technology. I'm not saying creatine is definitely dangerous but who knows? Certainly not anyone who isn't a doctor. Also there are a million untested suppliments all protected by the 1993 FDA act that allows them to go untested so long as they fall within a certain drug class. You have no idea what those drugs do and neither does anyone else becuase no one has tested them yet.

[tdub27]

Your arguments are all faulty.

You don't need to get sun burned to get skin cancer. If you just tanned responsibly every day for 20 years you could not get burnt once but still be at risk for melanoma.

You say that cigarettes don't count because they have added nicotene. Well guess what, even cigarettes without added nicotene will kill you. At one point no one thought any better of it and they are paying for it now.

The same way, just becuase your naturally produced creatine doesn't hurt you doesn't mean exogenous compounds that mimic the bodys own production cannot be harmful. The easiest example, testosterone. Using exogenous testosterone(steroids) has all kinds of long term health risks yet testosterone naturally in the body is not a big deal.

To think that science has reached its peak shows a lot of hubris. That is the kind of attitude that leads to disasters. Don't you think every generation before us thought the same thing? Of course the present is always the pinnacle of technology. I'm not saying creatine is definitely dangerous but who knows? Certainly not anyone who isn't a doctor. Also there are a million untested suppliments all protected by the 1993 FDA act that allows them to go untested so long as they fall within a certain drug class. You have no idea what those drugs do and neither does anyone else becuase no one has tested them yet.

lots of nice points in there

[bigshayet]

Your arguments are all faulty.

You don't need to get sun burned to get skin cancer. If you just tanned responsibly every day for 20 years you could not get burnt once but still be at risk for melanoma.

I'm pretty sure I pointed out that our bodies naturally tell us that we have been out in the sun for too long and it is time to find shade. I never said that tanning DIDN'T cause skin cancer down the line with no signs of burns

You say that cigarettes don't count because they have added nicotene. Well guess what, even cigarettes without added nicotene will kill you. At one point no one thought any better of it and they are paying for it now.

I pointed out that cigarettes contain tobacco, the agent that harms the user. Read it again please

The same way, just becuase your naturally produced creatine doesn't hurt you doesn't mean exogenous compounds that mimic the bodys own production cannot be harmful. The easiest example, testosterone. Using exogenous testosterone(steroids) has all kinds of long term health risks yet testosterone naturally in the body is not a big deal.

Testosterone is on a completely different level than creatine my friend. For one, it is an androgen, and can be manipulated/duplicated extremely easily for help or to harm.

To think that science has reached its peak shows a lot of hubris. That is the kind of attitude that leads to disasters. Don't you think every generation before us thought the same thing? Of course the present is always the pinnacle of technology. I'm not saying creatine is definitely dangerous but who knows? Certainly not anyone who isn't a doctor. Also there are a million untested suppliments all protected by the 1993 FDA act that allows them to go untested so long as they fall within a certain drug class. You have no idea what those drugs do and neither does anyone else becuase no one has tested them yet.

Science ftw

responses in bold.

[tdub27]

responses in bold.

we have some intelligent people in here....nice argument again

[Replica]

Cliffs at bottom
We were talking about steroids, smoking, drinking and all that crap and some kid brought up supplements. The teacher made a comparison to smoking and tanning. Back when there were no studies or anything, people would sit out with baby oil all over themselves, and now it turns out that most of those people have skin cancer. But those people had no clue back then because there was no knowledge about it. Then he talked about the same thing but with smoking. It began to get "popular" and tons of people started doing it. Now it turns out a lot of those people have lung cancer. And of course they did it because there were no known health risks.

So he said that this could be the same "pattern". Everyone is just starting to get big on supplements like creatine and whey and stuff. Nobody has been using creatine for a long enough period to know any LONG TERM health risks. Do you see what I am saying? WE COULD BE THE "STUPID GENERATION" that does this stuff and later our kids are talking about us like I am talking about my parents' generation.

I am not totally agreeing but it does make me hesitate a little bit. I hope I got the point across without confusing anyone.


Cliffs
Health teacher says we could be the "lab rat" for supplements because nobody has been using them long enough to know of any long term health risks, just like when people started smoking and tanning w/ baby oil all over.

We'll find out in 10 years . Until then, I'll enjoy my whey, creatine, multi, fish oil, and probably some PH's in a year or so.

edit: And if I do pay for it years down the road, at least I'll be looking great in my prime, feeling great, and loved everything I did to obtain that.

[tdub27]

We'll find out in 10 years . Until then, I'll enjoy my whey, creatine, multi, fish oil, and probably some PH's in a year or so.

risky risky risky....I shouldn't have put whey in there tho because I don't really see any harm in that

[echoareone]

We'll find out in 10 years . Until then, I'll enjoy my whey, creatine, multi, fish oil, and probably some PH's in a year or so.

edit: And if I do pay for it years down the road, at least I'll be looking great in my prime, feeling great, and loved everything I did to obtain that.

I actually find it exciting to be a walking experiment, of sorts. Granted, I'm not (yet) doing the elaborate AAS cocktails of the pros, but nonetheless...

You go around once. And damned if I don't make a good time of it.