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  1. #211
    Registered User LunicaAshes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    Maybe I have Assburgers!

    Let me check my adult diaper.
    Profound and mature.

    Do you really think that a thread made for awareness, information and support is the place for a comment of that nature? It's extremely innappropriate, and unexpected from someone who supposedly has respect for those experiencing mental disorders.

    Fun fun, I will illustrate how stupid and gender bias that article was by replacing "girls" with "Asians" and "boys" with "Negroes". Amusingly, in "multicultural" classes, you will learn about the quiet, collective, Asian and the substitution makes for a good one.

    The guy who wrote that is a black and white thinker, and/or he's "white knighting" females.
    Are you claimin that there are not notable socioloical and neuroloical differences between makes and females? No one is saying one is better than the other, this is just a generalization about behavior in one context. It's not a value judgement, it's an observation.

    My response was completely related in that it provided a behavioral explanation for what the moronic Mr. Attwood described.

    To address your question, after reading what he wrote, I conclude that's I'm more objective than he is on the topic, if this is what he currently thinks. Honestly, you have to get real, this guy may not have had any field experience with anyone. Whatever the case, he's got a very limited view of males and females.

    As I mentioned, boys are the prime creative movers in society and invented every creative thing in the world. Girls largely immitate what boys already invented.

    The amazingly great Englishman William Wilberforce invented the first:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wilberforce (there's a great movie about him called Amazing Grace)

    ...and he was a heterosexual.

    It's pure BS that boys are this and girls are that, because at the least, boys are EVERYTHING. They aren't just interested in "trains", which is so dumb at humiliate that idiot if I ever saw him speak.

    Anyway, having a faulty premise ruins all subsequent argument.
    ...Um... WTF is up with you all the sudden? I'm done talking to you until you can do so rationally and respectfully - and actually read what I write, and address my questions and points.

    I don't believe that you have any graduate degree, much less in anything related to the field of psychology.
    Last edited by LunicaAshes; 04-16-2010 at 04:26 PM.
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  2. #212
    Registered User TheAdlerian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    Profound and mature.
    Dude, can you neg yourself?

    You insulted me with the "reading comprehension" comment and then are shocked by "assburgers"?

    Come on.


    Here's your neg:

    Reported for the insult in a thread for awareness and support.
    See that's very angry and emotional of you, not autistic.
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  3. #213
    Registered User TheAdlerian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    I don't believe that you have any graduate degree, much less in anything related to the field of psychology.
    Translation:

    You've made too many good points and now I'm exhausted.
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  4. #214
    Registered User LunicaAshes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    Dude, can you neg yourself?

    You insulted me with the "reading comprehension" comment and then are shocked by "assburgers"?

    Come on.


    Here's your neg:

    See that's very angry and emotional of you, not autistic.
    See my edit above.

    For starters, anger and emotion are very much a part of autism. If you don't know that, I doubt you even took Psych 101.

    My statement to you was not to insult you. It was an honest observation. It wasn't the statement that people with PDDs sh!t themselves in a thread to help people with PDDs.
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  5. #215
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    See my edit above.

    For starters, anger and emotion are very much a part of autism. If you don't know that, I doubt you even took Psych 101.

    My statement to you was not to insult you. It was an honest observation. It wasn't the statement that people with PDDs sh!t themselves in a thread to help people with PDDs.
    Ok, I forgive you.

    Clearly, I was directing the "assburgers" wordplay at myself in response to your little jab, which I was not insulted by in reality.
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  6. #216
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post

    For starters, anger and emotion are very much a part of autism. If you don't know that, I doubt you even took Psych 101.
    This. Anyone who has been diagnosed with it knows that. In fact, that is one of my main problems other than shyness(which I've overcome as i got a bit older, but i was awkward as **** a few years ago.)
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  7. #217
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    Originally Posted by Captain Harris View Post
    People with Asperger's are just attention whores looking for something unique about themselves to tell people.
    Try doing this in the breast cancer threads in the misc.

    For the 100th time - just because something happens, that doesn't mean it's the norm, or that a disorder doesn't exist. Wouldn't you think that if I was trying to get attention, I'd have told more than 1 person IRL? Or that it'd be me trying to talk about myself here, not trying to educate others in general, and then THEM talking about me, trying to prove who I am when they are strangers?
    Last edited by LunicaAshes; 04-16-2010 at 06:35 PM.
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  8. #218
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    Originally Posted by Captain Harris View Post
    People with Asperger's are just attention whores looking for something unique about themselves to tell people.

    I'm guessing psychology is not your field of study.
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  9. #219
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    Originally Posted by Prn View Post
    autism is a fraud imo
    Were you a forceps delivery?
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
    One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
    The other, of course, involves orcs.
    -John Rogers

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  10. #220
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    HBO: A Mother's Courage: Talking Back to Autism
    Just found this documentary on hbo. Hbo always has some great documentaries, well just putting it up here for you guys.

    preview link: http://www.amotherscourage.org/
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  11. #221
    Registered User TheAdlerian's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    Try doing this in the breast cancer threads in the misc.

    For the 100th time - just because something happens, that doesn't mean it's the norm, or that a disorder doesn't exist. Wouldn't you think that if I was trying to get attention, I'd have told more than 1 person IRL? Or that it'd be me trying to talk about myself here, not trying to educate others in general, and then THEM talking about me, trying to prove who I am when they are strangers?
    For the record, I don't think you "just want attention" rather, I believe you're trying to figure something out. Certainly, I've met "real" Asperger's patients with all of the classic symptoms and the condition is 100% real and very mysterious.
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  12. #222
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    aspergers has been the new "cool" word to tell people ever since people started watching House.
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  13. #223
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    Originally Posted by 6packsummer View Post
    aspergers has been the new "cool" word to tell people ever since people started watching House.
    Really, does a main character have it?

    Also, you may not be joking. TV shows can have a lot of influence on things. In the 80s there was a TV show called LA Law, about lawyers, and it caused a mad rush to enter law school.

    Overall, this stuff is money driven. Hot diagnosis get money from the government and that triggers over diagnosis and stretching of the criteria for diagnosis. That last one was ADHD which had every bored kid in school diagnosed as mentally ill. Then, as time went on more and more people started calling BS and the fad died.
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  14. #224
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    Originally Posted by _TG_ View Post
    HBO: A Mother's Courage: Talking Back to Autism
    Just found this documentary on hbo. Hbo always has some great documentaries, well just putting it up here for you guys.

    preview link: http://www.amotherscourage.org/
    Thanks, I'll check that out.

    What perspective does it take? I'm always frustrated that nearly every documentary about autism goes on about how the disorder is tough on everyone else in the family, but they forget that the autistic person is experiencing more than anyone (just look at the title of this one, which is why I'm asking.)

    I really like the ones I've seen that are basically written by the person themself. Very insightful.

    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    For the record, I don't think you "just want attention" rather, I believe you're trying to figure something out. Certainly, I've met "real" Asperger's patients with all of the classic symptoms and the condition is 100% real and very mysterious.
    What would you say are the key differences between calssical autism and Asperger's syndrome?

    Given the most troubling problems associated with the disorder, I'm surprised that you have met people with it, and yet think that anger and other emotions cannot exist in them. In fact, those can be the biggest problem. Emotional meltdowns are a hallmark of ASDs, but you think this is BPD?

    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    Really, does a main character have it?

    Also, you may not be joking. TV shows can have a lot of influence on things. In the 80s there was a TV show called LA Law, about lawyers, and it caused a mad rush to enter law school.

    Overall, this stuff is money driven. Hot diagnosis get money from the government and that triggers over diagnosis and stretching of the criteria for diagnosis. That last one was ADHD which had every bored kid in school diagnosed as mentally ill. Then, as time went on more and more people started calling BS and the fad died.
    If you think the ADHD fad has died, that's all the proof I need that you aren't in the field.
    Last edited by LunicaAshes; 04-19-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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  15. #225
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    ... That last one was ADHD which had every bored kid in school diagnosed as mentally ill. Then, as time went on more and more people started calling BS and the fad died.
    I don't think it's fair that people like me (with combo cases of extreme primary Tourette's and highly advanced secondary Frotteurism) should be neglected by the scientific establishment. Do you think my life is a fad, huh, do you?! Shows how much you know.
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    Originally Posted by Phat Daddy View Post
    I don't think it's fair that people like me (with combo cases of extreme primary Tourette's and highly advanced secondary Frotteurism) should be neglected by the scientific establishment. Do you think my life is a fad, huh, do you?! Shows how much you know.
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    What would you say are the key differences between calssical autism and Asperger's syndrome?
    The diagnostic criteria is pretty much on target. Autistic people are robotic and almost totally is some closed simplistic world.

    Asperger's is almost like something else, except such people are similarly obsessed with a few things and related to people in odd ways. On commonality I've seen many times is that said people call material objects people and vice versa. A real example of that is, "My grandmother is the couch in the livingroom!" and that person would not refer to their grandmother at all.

    They are strong "wtf" people and even their parents find them difficult to love because of the emotional disconnection, and the super weirdness. That's in contrast to the sweeter down's types.

    Given the most troubling problems associated with the disorder, I'm surprised that you have met people with it, and yet think that anger and other emotions cannot exist in them. In fact, those can be the biggest problem. Emotional meltdowns are a hallmark of ASDs, but you think this is BPD?
    Autistic people "freak out" which is different than getting angry about subjects, repression, insults, etc.

    If you think the ADHD fad has died, that's all the proof I need that you aren't in the field.
    I don't think you're old enough to have seen this in the 90s. There was insane fervor and crazy yuppie and ghetto woman had discovered the ultimate out for taking care of their kids and got the excitement of putting innocent children they resented on powerful medications. Listen to an Emminem song for further details.

    It's still over diagnosed, but there's nowhere near as much excitement.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    The diagnostic criteria is pretty much on target. Autistic people are robotic and almost totally is some closed simplistic world.

    Asperger's is almost like something else, except such people are similarly obsessed with a few things and related to people in odd ways. On commonality I've seen many times is that said people call material objects people and vice versa. A real example of that is, "My grandmother is the couch in the livingroom!" and that person would not refer to their grandmother at all.

    They are strong "wtf" people and even their parents find them difficult to love because of the emotional disconnection, and the super weirdness. That's in contrast to the sweeter down's types.
    Down syndrome is not a mental illness, nor is AS related to mental retardation. I'm not sure what the point of that even was.

    You haven't really explained how exactly they are on the same spectrum, but different, or why you use criteria for classical autism to explain why I can't have AS. While people with AS are odd, how this comes across - when, where, how and to what degree - will differ form person to person. I don't see how you can even think you know enough about me to claim that I am not odd.

    A big difference between the two is this:

    In classical autism, the individual will often simply want to be in their own world. In AS, they will often want to be a part of things with everyone else, but can't.

    "My grandmother is the couch in the living room," if truly believed, is a psychotic thought - not really a part of AS. I imagine personifying objects would be common, though, and that seems like it could be related to synesthesia. But for you to know nothing of the inner workings of my mind and claim I cannot have AS because i do not do this is very presumptuous, and not based in logic.

    Autistic people "freak out" which is different than getting angry about subjects, repression, insults, etc.
    Proof?

    Evidence that they don't or can't get angry about those things?

    I don't think you're old enough to have seen this in the 90s. There was insane fervor and crazy yuppie and ghetto woman had discovered the ultimate out for taking care of their kids and got the excitement of putting innocent children they resented on powerful medications. Listen to an Emminem song for further details.

    It's still over diagnosed, but there's nowhere near as much excitement.
    I'm not saying it's like it was, but you claimed the fad died, and it certainly did not.
    Last edited by LunicaAshes; 04-19-2010 at 05:18 PM.
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    They've been having articles in the paper on autism this month, and one today had a quote that I liked: "If you've seen one person with autism, you've seen one person with autism." (As opposed to the "you've seen one, you've seen 'em all" mentality that most here have.)

    I think anybody with even half of a BA in Psychology would realize this, but I'm just putting it out there.

    The article also talked about the TEACCH Method, which is really great. My friend was involved in this before she moved to Alaska.

    Here is their website: http://www.teacch.com/
    TEACCH is an evidence-based service, training, and research program for individuals of all ages and skill levels with autism spectrum disorders. Established in the early 1970s by Eric Schopler and colleagues, the TEACCH program has worked with thousands of individuals with autism spectrum disorders and their families. TEACCH provides clinical services such as diagnostic evaluations, parent training and parent support groups, social play and recreation groups, individual counseling for higher-functioning clients, and supported employment. In addition, TEACCH conducts training nationally and internationally and provides consultation for teachers, residential care providers, and other professionals from a variety of disciplines. Research activities include psychological, educational, and biomedical studies.

    The administrative headquarters of the TEACCH program are in Chapel Hill, North Carolina, and there are nine regional TEACCH Centers around the state of North Carolina. Most clinical services from the TEACCH centers are free to citizens of North Carolina.



    A few other things to read about if you're interested. Note that I have included Wikipedia as a source for general info, but remember that this is not reliable for use beyond acting as a "jumping off" point to learn about a particular topic:




    Pragmatic language impairment (semantic-pragmatic disorder):

    General:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmat...age_impairment
    Characteristics:

    Individuals with PLI have particular trouble understanding the meaning of what others are saying, and they are challenged in using language appropriately to get their needs met and interact with others. Children with the disorder often exhibit:

    delayed language development
    aphasic speech (word search pauses, jargoning, echolalia, word order errors, word category errors, verb tense errors or dysfluency)
    difficulty with pronouns or pronoun reversal
    difficulty understanding questions
    difficulty understanding choices and making decisions.
    difficulty following conversations or stories. Conversations are "off topic" or "one sided".
    difficulty extracting the key points from a conversation or story; they tend to get lost in the details
    difficulty with verb tenses
    difficulty explaining or describing an event
    tendency to be concrete or prefer facts to stories
    have difficulty understanding satire or jokes
    have difficulty understanding contextual cues
    difficulty in reading comprehension
    difficulty with reading body language
    difficulty in making and maintaining friendships and relationships because of delayed language development.
    difficulty in distinguishing offensive remarks
    difficulty with organizational skills

    People with PLI often share additional characteristics consistent with high-functioning autism. For example, they may dislike or avoid eye contact. Many have rigid habits, a shallower range of interests than most people (often with a deep knowledge of their areas of interest), sensory and eating sensitivities, coordination and muscle-tone issues. They may also display striking abilities in an area like mathematics, computer science, geography, astronomy, reading, history, sports, politics or music.
    This site has tons of great resources, and an interesting Venn diagram comparing this problem with classical autsim and AS.
    http://www.autism-pdd.net/testdump/test14806.htm
    Pragmatics skills include:

    knowing that you have to answer when a question has been asked;

    being able to participate in a conversation by taking it in turns with the other speaker;

    the ability to notice and respond to the non-verbal aspects of language (reacting appropriately to the other person's body language and 'mood', as well as their words);

    awareness that you have to introduce a topic of conversation in order for the listener to fully understand;

    knowing which words or what sort of sentence-type to use when initiating a conversation or responding to something someone has said;

    the ability to maintain a topic (or change topic appropriately, or 'interrupt' politely);

    the ability to maintain appropriate eye-contact (not too much staring, and not too much looking away) during a conversation; and

    the ability to distinguish how to talk and behave towards different communicative partners (formal with some, informal with others).
    Where are the boundaries?
    http://www.mugsy.org/bishop.htm
    Abstract:

    The diagnostic criteria for autism have been refined and made more objective since Kanner first described the syndrome, so there is now reasonable consistency in how this diagnosis is applied. However, many children do not meet these criteria, yet show some of the features of autism. Where language development is impaired, such children tend to be classed as cases of developmental dysphasia (or specific language impairment) whereas those who learn to talk at the normal age may be diagnosed as having Asperger's syndrome. It is argued that rather than thinking in terms of rigid diagnostic categories, we should recognise that the core syndrome of autism shades into other milder forms of disorder in which language or non-verbal behaviour may be disproportionately impaired.

    (See article for full info)



    Alexithymia (note the alpha-privative - this is a word meaning "without words for emotions.)

    General:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexithymia
    Alexithymia is considered to be a personality trait that places individuals at risk for other medical and psychiatric disorders while reducing the likelihood that these individuals will respond to conventional treatments for the other conditions. Alexithymia is not classified as a mental disorder in the DSM IV. It is a dimensional personality trait that varies in severity from person to person. A person's alexithymia score can be measured with questionnaires such as the Toronto Alexithymia Scale (TAS-20), the Bermond-Vorst Alexithymia Questionnaire (BVAQ) or the Observer Alexithymia Scale (OAS).

    Alexithymia is defined by:

    1.difficulty identifying feelings and distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal
    2.difficulty describing feelings to other people
    3.constricted imaginal processes, as evidenced by a paucity of fantasies
    4.a stimulus-bound, externally oriented cognitive style.

    ...

    Typical deficiencies may include problems identifying, describing, and working with one's own feelings, often marked by a lack of understanding of the feelings of others; difficulty distinguishing between feelings and the bodily sensations of emotional arousal; confusion of physical sensations often associated with emotions; few dreams or fantasies due to restricted imagination; and concrete, realistic, logical thinking, often to the exclusion of emotional responses to problems. Those who have alexithymia also report very logical and realistic dreams, such as going to the store or eating a meal. Clinical experience suggests it is the structural features of dreams more than the ability to recall them that best characterizes alexithymia.

    Some alexithymic individuals may appear to contradict the above mentioned characteristics because they can experience chronic dysphoria or manifest outbursts of crying or rage. However, questioning usually reveals that they are quite incapable of describing their feelings or appear confused by questions inquiring about specifics of feelings.

    According to Henry Krystal, individuals suffering from alexithymia think in an operative way and may appear to be superadjusted to reality. In psychotherapy, however, a cognitive disturbance becomes apparent as patients tend to recount trivial, chronologically ordered actions, reactions, and events of daily life with monotonous detail. In general, these individuals lack imagination, intuition, empathy, and drive-fulfillment fantasy, especially in relation to objects. Instead, they seem oriented toward things and even treat themselves as robots. These problems seriously limit their responsiveness to psychoanalytic psychotherapy; psychosomatic illness or substance abuse is frequently exacerbated should these individuals enter psychotherapy

    A common misconception about alexithymia is that affected individuals are totally unable to express emotions verbally and that they may even fail to acknowledge that they experience emotions. Even before coining the term, Sifneos (1967) noted patients often mentioned things like anxiety or depression. The distinguishing factor was their inability to elaborate beyond a few limited adjectives such as "happy" or "unhappy" when describing these feelings. The core issue is that alexithymics have poorly differentiated emotions limiting their ability to distinguish and describe them to others. This contributes to the sense of emotional detachment from themselves and difficulty connecting with others, making alexithymia negatively associated with life satisfaction even when depression and other confounding factors are controlled for.

    ...

    Alexithymia frequently co-occurs with other disorders, with a representative prevalence of 85% in autism spectrum disorders, 40% in posttraumatic stress disorder, 63% in anorexia nervosa, 56% in bulimia, 45% in major depressive disorder, 34% in panic disorder,[30] and 50% in substance abusers.

    Research indicates that alexithymia overlaps with Asperger syndrome. In a 2004 study, Uta Frith reported an overlap and that at least half of the Asperger syndrome group obtained scores on the Toronto Alexithymia Scale (TAS-20) that would classify them as severely impaired. Fitzgerald & Bellgrove pointed out that, "Like Alexithymia, Asperger’s syndrome is also characterised by core disturbances in speech and language and social relationships". Hill & Berthoz agreed with Fitzgerald & Bellgrove (2006) and in response stated that "there is some form of overlap between alexithymia and ASDs". They also pointed to studies that revealed impaired Theory of Mind skill in alexithymia, neuroanatomical evidence pointing to a shared aetiology and similar social skills deficits. The exact nature of the overlap is uncertain. Alexithymic traits in AS may be linked to depression or anxiety; the mediating factors are unknown and it is possible that alexithymia predisposes to anxiety.
    Long article: http://eqi.org/alexi.htm

    Online questionairre: http://oaq.blogspot.com/

    Observer scale: http://psy.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/.../full/41/5/385
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    Anger:
    It was mentioned that people with ASDs don't feel anger, which is ridiculous. Just look at Google: http://www.google.com/search?q=asper...rchBox&ie=&oe=

    http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2007...cope-with.html
    Anger and depression are both issues more common in Aspergers syndrome than in the general population. Part of the problem stems from a conflict between longings for social contact and an inability to be social in ways that attract friendships and relationships. Even young children seem to know that they are not the same as other kids and this gets emphasized in the social era of adolescence. Many cases of depression, in fact, begin in adolescence. Anger, too, stems from feeling out of place and being angry at one’s circumstances in life.

    ...

    Anger can also come in Aspergers syndrome sufferers when rituals can’t get accomplished or when their need for order or symmetry can’t be met. Frustration over what doesn’t usually bother others can lead to anger and sometimes, violent outbursts. This kind of anger is best handled through cognitive-behavioral therapy that focuses on maintaining control in spite of the frustration of not having their needs met.
    The "rage cycle":
    http://autism.wikia.com/wiki/Rage_cycle
    It's a common myth that people with Asperger syndrome don't feel emotions. This is untrue. Many times, people with Asperger's report that they feel things too much -- but they have trouble expressing those emotions in a way that others can understand.

    People with Asperger syndrome can also have trouble recognizing their own feelings, and they may not realize that a strong emotion like anger is building up inside of them. Those feelings can build until they cause an outburst.

    Authors Brenda Smith Myles and Jack Southwick, who wrote Asperger Syndrome and Difficult Moments: Practical Solutions for Tantrums, Rage and Meltdowns use the phrase "rage cycle" to describe what happens when a person with Asperger's gets mad. They break down the "rage cycle" into three steps:

    Rumbling: You can tell that something's wrong, and is about to blow. The child shows a buildup of emotions with words (screaming, nonsense noises), stereotyped behavior (fidgeting, rocking), and movement (pacing, walking in circles).

    Rage: The child loses control. He may start screaming, destroying things, hurting others, or hitting himself.

    Recovery: After the explosion, the child retreats. He may go off by himself, go to sleep, pretend that nothing happened, or even feel guilt and apoligize.

    These 3 stages also exist in adults, but the "rumbling" and "rage" are often more internalized. "Recovery" is much the same.
    Remember that after a meltdown, and individual will remain "primed" for additional meltdowns for the rest of the day, and sometimes that day after.




    "Asperger Emotions and Adult Relationships"
    Long article, lots of good insight: http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-relationships
    It has been often said, or implied, that people with Asperger's don't feel emotion. Anyone who's known me through the years can testify that that is absolutely not true. As with many others with Asperger's, I feel emotion, and feel them intensely, sometimes more so than a person who did not have Asperger's.

    When it boils down to it, I believe the root of this assumption goes back to the difficulties that many with Asperger's have with communication. As Canadian writer A.J. Mahari, wrote in 'Difficulty Expressing Emotions Doesn't Mean We Don't Feel:'

    'There is often quite a stark difference in the styles used to express and communicate emotions between those with AS and neurotypicals (NT's) which is not cause to assume that aspies don't feel empathy, sadness, compassion, happy for others and so forth. Speaking for myself, from my own experience, I often feel way too much though this is usually not very evident a lot of the time. Granted also that a lot of the way too much that I do feel is usually kept as being a part of my own world inner-experience and is not often shared with others. I do need to be asked often. I rarely just seek to share outwardly. People that get to know me come to understand this is not something that need be taken personally and that all they have to do is ask and I will answer.

    'Being differently abled in this aspect of expression is often an implied negation of aspie ability to feel. More aspies than not feel a tremendous amount of empathy, compassion, sadness, happiness, and so forth. What is at issue is their reticent expression. It is not natural for us to communicate and to express our emotions in a social/relational context the way that it is second nature to NT's. It feels foreign. It is work and requires effort and energy.'

    ...

    'The AS spouse's poor communications skills are very obvious during marital arguments. They lose their train of thought and seem to revert to a purely emotional state. Sometimes that emotion is anger, but more often it is hurt. Unfortunately, the AS spouse is often so unaware of her feelings that she doesn't even realize when she is upset. One husband commented that he knew when his AS wife was upset or stressed with him before she did because she would start talking like Data of the 1990s Star Trek series. She would stop using contractions and formalized her speech. For some, it's almost as if the excessive emotion has cut of the analytical part of the brain. They stumble, are completely unable to explain their actions. And they become locked into a fixed thought pattern, which they demonstrate by resorting to repetition of the same few phrases. When the conflict stymies and the spouse withdraws, the AS spouse may follow the spouse around seeking a resolution. Needless to say, this behavior is annoying and can appear like harassment. To make matters worse, when they calm down and collect their thoughts, even if it's several hours later, they will reengage to better explain their views only to be accused of wanting to reignite a fight.'

    Another reason that people with Asperger's may be perceived as "not having emotion" is that they may have different triggers than a person who did not have Asperger's. Because people with Asperger's tend to be concrete and literal, they may struggle to identify with, and therefore be emotional about, situations which they do not have a direct connection to, such as global tragedies, or people on the news. But, they may be very upset and emotional if their schedule is changed, or their environment is tampered with in some way. My stepfather, whom I strongly suspect had Asperger's, seemed very untouched by large scale tragedies in the news, but would become extremely upset if his ashtray was moved from its customary location.

    Of course, like most situations, there can be a plus side to the emotional difficulties, too. I've heard of some people with Asperger's who were very good in certain crisis situations, because of their emotional detachment. The delayed emotional response gave them the initial ability to respond to a crisis without feeling anything at all, then if they could learn to not engage the emotion and defer its processing to an appropriate time, they were then able to keep a cool head. I have myself used this tactic in certain problem situations at work. My ability to not immediately emotionally react to a boss or client that was being testy or unreasonable has often been a distinct advantage, and saved me from the pushback or retribution others received. However, in those situations, self-monitoring is critical to ensure that you're being assertive and looking out for your own interests (not being a doormat).
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    General symptom list (non-DSM):
    http://www.support4hope.com/autism/a...cteristics.htm
    Here are some characteristics you may find helpful in your quest for information, although some of these characteristics do not apply to everyone, because some cases of Aspergers are not as extreme as others, and some more extreme, it is always best to get a diagnosis from a professional in the field of Autism. We offer the information we do at Support4hope, not as a diagnosis, but purely for educational purposes only, and we hope you find it helpful. Some characteristics may not be as complex, some more than what we have listed here, this is just a little bit of general information we have obtained through our research on this topic.

    Difficulty in accepting criticism and/or being corrected.
    Strongly like, or strongly dislike certain things, for example, certain foods.
    Acting in a somewhat immature manner.
    Excessive talking.
    Difficulty in correcting someone else for mistakes without appearing to be insensitive or harsh.
    Sometimes appearing shy and withdrawn, but willing to speak when spoken to.
    Clumsiness and balancing difficulties.
    Difficulty sleeping.
    Sarcastic, negative, emotionally numb, very criticizing.
    Low or no participation in conferences, group meetings, etc.
    Great concern about personal working area.
    Problems addressing others due to issues with trust.
    Intense concern for privacy
    Difficultly in distinguishing intimate relationships from friendships.
    Difficulty working as a "team."
    Low to no sense of humor.
    Writing lists to stay on schedule when things get hectic.
    Very weird sense of humor, sometimes not found very humorous by others.
    Lacking in ability to greet others in a warm and friendly manner.
    Uneasiness with completing a project for fear of failure.
    Perfectionist.
    Lacking in ability to show compassion, sympathy and sincere happiness.
    Shows little or no reaction when being criticized or patronized.
    Difficulty accepting compliments.
    Difficulty maintaining eye contact.
    Difficulty starting projects.
    Interrupting in the middle of a conversation.
    Extreme reaction to a schedule change or routine.
    Repetitive behaviors, and if the step-by-step scheduled routine is interrupted it causes confusion and sometimes anger.
    Certain preferences of personal items, such as always picking the same clothes in stores when making a new purchase, using the same blanket, not wanting to throw away a particular pair of shoes.
    Easily manipulated.
    Lacking initiation when in groups.
    Not being able to determine public and personal and public hygiene, for instance, someone may pick their nose, clean their ears in front of others without realizing most people do not do those things in public areas.
    Very verbal, blunt.
    Raising of voice during stressful and frustrating situations.
    Difficulty hiding true emotions such as anger and sadness.
    Lacking in the ability to relax from activities.
    Verbalizing strongly on likes and dislikes.
    No interest in tasks that doesn't draw personal interest.
    Almost always totally serious.
    Difficulty in determining how someone else would feel given the same situation.
    Quick tempered.
    Having a different way of playing games with others, and is sometimes taken the wrong way.
    Fixating on really bad or really good experiences.
    Difficulty with constant anxiety, worried about performance and being accepted, despite commendation and special recogntion.
    Clumsiness.
    Limits one's self with pursued interests without thinking of other things that can be explored.
    Confusion during stress.
    Repetitive simple routines.
    Nail biting, fidgeting nervousness and anxiety.
    Strong sensitivity to sound, light some tastes, odors and colors.
    Difficulty expressing emotion.
    A need for finishing one task before starting another.
    Difficulty in determining time limits.
    Constantly asking of questions.
    Difficulty with negotiation.
    Does things without thinking them out well first, or considering consequences.
    Impulsive.
    Mental shutdown, or total burst of anger when "pinned in the corner" so to speak.
    Often viewed as vulnerable by not responding when being harassed by classmates or co-workers.
    Difficulty concentrating to write essays, reports etc.
    Difficulty talking to classmates or co-workers as "pals."
    Very low assertiveness in topics not interested in.
    Very easily distracted.
    Self injuring behaviors.
    Difficulty in starting or changing conversations.
    Thinking on a "one track mind" type basis.



    Plans to change DSM-V listing (I'm giving the link for the main site, as it has lots of interesting info about the proposed changes that is finally available to the public):
    http://www.dsm5.org/Pages/Default.aspx
    New name for category, autism spectrum disorder, which includes autistic disorder (autism), Asperger’s disorder, childhood disintegrative disorder, and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.


    •Differentiation of autism spectrum disorder from typical development and other "nonspectrum" disorders is done reliably and with validity; while distinctions among disorders have been found to be inconsistent over time, variable across sites and often associated with severity, language level or intelligence rather than features of the disorder.
    •Because autism is defined by a common set of behaviors, it is best represented as a single diagnostic category that is adapted to the individual’s clinical presentation by inclusion of clinical specifiers (e.g., severity, verbal abilities and others) and associated features (e.g., known genetic disorders, epilepsy, intellectual disability and others.) A single spectrum disorder is a better reflection of the state of knowledge about pathology and clinical presentation; previously, the criteria were equivalent to trying to “cleave meatloaf at the joints”.

    Three domains become two:

    1) Social/communication deficits

    2) Fixated interests and repetitive behaviors

    •Deficits in communication and social behaviors are inseparable and more accurately considered as a single set of symptoms with contextual and environmental specificities
    •Delays in language are not unique nor universal in ASD and are more accurately considered as a factor that influences the clinical symptoms of ASD, rather than defining the ASD diagnosis
    •Requiring both criteria to be completely fulfilled improves specificity of diagnosis without impairing sensitivity
    •Providing examples for subdomains for a range of chronological ages and language levels increases sensitivity across severity levels from mild to more severe, while maintaining specificity with just two domains
    •Decision based on literature review, expert consultations, and workgroup discussions; confirmed by the results of secondary analyses of data from CPEA and STAART, University of Michigan, Simons Simplex Collection databases
    Several social/communication criteria were merged and streamlined to clarify diagnostic requirements.

    •In DSM-IV, multiple criteria assess same symptom and therefore carry excessive weight in making diagnosis
    •Merging social and communication domains requires new approach to criteria
    •Secondary data analyses were conducted on social/communication symptoms to determine most sensitive and specific clusters of symptoms and criteria descriptions for a range of ages and language levels
    Requiring two symptom manifestations for repetitive behavior and fixated interests improves specificity of the criterion without significant decrements in sensitivity. The necessity for multiple sources of information including skilled clinical observation and reports from parents/caregivers/teachers is highlighted by the need to meet a higher proportion of criteria.

    The presence, via clinical observation and caregiver report, of a history of fixated interests, routines or rituals and repetitive behaviors considerably increases the stability of autism spectrum diagnoses over time and the differentiation between ASD and other disorders.

    Reorganization of subdomains increases clarity and continues to provide adequate sensitivity while improving specificity through provision of examples from different age ranges and language levels.

    Unusual sensory behaviors are explicitly included within a sudomain of stereotyped motor and verbal behaviors, expanding the specfication of different behaviors that can be coded within this domain, with examples particularly relevant for younger children

    Autism spectrum disorder is a neurodevelopmental disorder and must be present from infancy or early childhood, but may not be detected until later because of minimal social demands and support from parents or caregivers in early years.
    Here is the more specific link: http://www.dsm5.org/ProposedRevision...n.aspx?rid=94#
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    You keep ignoring what I've said about differential diagnosis, which is the heart of good diagnosis. You do not want to label a "nerd" with having some kind of brain disease.

    Your post about anger is a great example of that. Many people have anger based on longing for social contact because our society is very isolated especially once you get out of school. Some people may never meet anyone or have conversations on a regular basis. In school, unpopular people because of looks, or some reputation, may live in total isolation from peers and be rageful about it. In fact, there were several school shooting about the issue where lots of people got murdered.

    So, imagine that you're a psychologist and you interview a new patient and he's all socially isolated, has trouble relating to others, etc and you jump to the conclusion that he's got Asperger's! Then he realizes that no one understands and no one wants to help, so he decides to go and shoot up his school and all the people that had picked on him and drove him into a shell. That is now, in part, your fault because you didn't explore his life with him and just attempted to cram him into a prepackaged explanation for his being.
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    The presence, via clinical observation and caregiver report, of a history of fixated interests, routines or rituals and repetitive behaviors considerably increases the stability of autism spectrum diagnoses over time and the differentiation between ASD and other disorders.
    This is how ADHD exploded.

    Many people who involve themselves with mental health services are liars, and it takes a lot of work to weed out the lies and find the truth. For instance, there's few mothers who will come in and say, "I have no interest in children, but I had one anyway, and now he's out of control because I have no plan about how to be a parent" or "I spend no time with my child and have never taught him anything and he can't adapt to school" or "I'm all F@cked up from my divorce and just want to party and forget my kid ever existed" or "I'm more interested in work than teaching my child anything and so he has no focus other than attention seeking," and so on. Parents will come in, delete all negative details about their interaction with the child and then give a sob story report.

    That's like getting an account of the crime from the perpetrator and not the victim.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    This is how ADHD exploded.

    Many people who involve themselves with mental health services are liars, and it takes a lot of work to weed out the lies and find the truth. For instance, there's few mothers who will come in and say, "I have no interest in children, but I had one anyway, and now he's out of control because I have no plan about how to be a parent" or "I spend no time with my child and have never taught him anything and he can't adapt to school" or "I'm all F@cked up from my divorce and just want to party and forget my kid ever existed" or "I'm more interested in work than teaching my child anything and so he has no focus other than attention seeking," and so on. Parents will come in, delete all negative details about their interaction with the child and then give a sob story report.

    That's like getting an account of the crime from the perpetrator and not the victim.
    Do you remember the explosion of child institutionalizations in the 80's? It was quite the fad, though it seems to fallen into disfavor now. I suppose the same will be said of ADD and related diagnoses one day, after the cycle has gone full circle and money can better be made elsewhere.

    I personally think 'Dysthymia' could be the next big cash cow. It's an underexploited diagnoses. Not quite severe depression, and idiopathic/esoteric enough to deceive parents about the mechanisms, but yet requiring expensive new mind altering drugs to attenuate symptoms.
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    Originally Posted by Phat Daddy View Post
    Do you remember the explosion of child institutionalizations in the 80's? It was quite the fad, though it seems to fallen into disfavor now. I suppose the same will be said of ADD and related diagnoses one day, after the cycle has gone full circle and money can better be made elsewhere.

    I personally think 'Dysthymia' could be the next big cash cow. It's an underexploited diagnoses. Not quite severe depression, and idiopathic/esoteric enough to deceive parents about the mechanisms, but yet requiring expensive new mind altering drugs to attenuate symptoms.
    See, Dysthymia is a great diagnosis and I used to give it a lot. However, it's not popular because it suggests that something is wrong with the person's life, they're depressed about some onging issue, and it throwing them off. That might imply that the people in their lives, especially parents, suck, and are depressing to be around. That would require that people actually DO SOMETHING and no one wants that. That's why it will never be popular. We can't break it to parents that their crappy relationships and immoral behavior might actually depress someone.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    You keep ignoring what I've said about differential diagnosis, which is the heart of good diagnosis. You do not want to label a "nerd" with having some kind of brain disease.

    Your post about anger is a great example of that. Many people have anger based on longing for social contact because our society is very isolated especially once you get out of school. Some people may never meet anyone or have conversations on a regular basis. In school, unpopular people because of looks, or some reputation, may live in total isolation from peers and be rageful about it. In fact, there were several school shooting about the issue where lots of people got murdered.

    So, imagine that you're a psychologist and you interview a new patient and he's all socially isolated, has trouble relating to others, etc and you jump to the conclusion that he's got Asperger's! Then he realizes that no one understands and no one wants to help, so he decides to go and shoot up his school and all the people that had picked on him and drove him into a shell. That is now, in part, your fault because you didn't explore his life with him and just attempted to cram him into a prepackaged explanation for his being.
    It was talking about how they will get angry because they cannot help but be socially isolated WHILE surrounded by people. It was talking mostly about kids in school. Read it in context. It's not talking about physical isolation at all.

    I agreed with you about differential Dx, but you look at it from the perspective of "it can't possibly be AS unless it's EXTREME with certain SPECIFIC features.

    If oncologists did that, we'd have a lot more dead people.

    You can do that same thing for anything else "this person can't have BPD, they fit the criteria for AS." It goes both ways, so I don't really see why you think AS is so much less likely.

    We are not talking about whether or not a nerd is autistic because he is angry, but whether or not an autistic person can be angry.

    Differential diagnosis means looking at the big picture - all symptoms and patient history - to determine what is most likely... not taking a couple of things you think are true about someone, and deciding for a fact that they can't have a specific diagnosis. That's quite the opposite.
    Last edited by LunicaAshes; 04-27-2010 at 11:04 PM.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    This is how ADHD exploded.

    Many people who involve themselves with mental health services are liars, and it takes a lot of work to weed out the lies and find the truth. For instance, there's few mothers who will come in and say, "I have no interest in children, but I had one anyway, and now he's out of control because I have no plan about how to be a parent" or "I spend no time with my child and have never taught him anything and he can't adapt to school" or "I'm all F@cked up from my divorce and just want to party and forget my kid ever existed" or "I'm more interested in work than teaching my child anything and so he has no focus other than attention seeking," and so on. Parents will come in, delete all negative details about their interaction with the child and then give a sob story report.

    That's like getting an account of the crime from the perpetrator and not the victim.
    Of course this happens, but that doesn't discount all the real cases.
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    Originally Posted by TheAdlerian View Post
    See, Dysthymia is a great diagnosis and I used to give it a lot. However, it's not popular because it suggests that something is wrong with the person's life, they're depressed about some onging issue, and it throwing them off. That might imply that the people in their lives, especially parents, suck, and are depressing to be around. That would require that people actually DO SOMETHING and no one wants that. That's why it will never be popular. We can't break it to parents that their crappy relationships and immoral behavior might actually depress someone.
    I like it too. I'd never thought of it from a clinical standpoint, but yes, you are absolutely correct! It really begs the question, doesn't it? Then Prozac or Ritalin are prescribed and nobody analyzes the origins anymore, so long as adequate symptomatic relieve is achieved. As you say, it's in the parent's self-interests not to burst the denial bubble they dwell in with such insignificant details.
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    Originally Posted by Phat Daddy View Post
    I like it too. I'd never thought of it from a clinical standpoint, but yes, you are absolutely correct! It really begs the question, doesn't it? Then Prozac or Ritalin are prescribed and nobody analyzes the origins anymore, so long as adequate symptomatic relieve is achieved. As you say, it's in the parent's self-interests not to burst the denial bubble they dwell in with such insignificant details.
    There are many people interested in the origin and focusing on that instead of meds, but unfortunately, you can't change most of the parents.

    Anyhow, once again, you two have derailed my thread from its very specific goal/topic.
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    Originally Posted by LunicaAshes View Post
    ... Anyhow, once again, you two have derailed my thread from its very specific goal/topic.
    Fine, let's get back to awareness of autistic stuff this month. But you don't have to be such a mean mean lady!
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