What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?

[grup910]

adolph hitler: either you're a member of the aryan race, paying your respects to the fuhrer, or i'm sending you to the death camps. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to the camps.

jeezus krist: either you're a member of christianity, worshipping me as your "savior," or i'm sending you to hell. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to hell.

What on earth is the difference?

[JAGERBOY]

adolph hitler: either you're a member of the aryan race, paying your respects to the fuhrer, or i'm sending you to the death camps. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to the camps.

jeezus krist: either you're a member of christianity, worshipping me as your "savior," or i'm sending you to hell. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to hell.

What on earth is the difference?

Excellent.
...

[jf1]

adolph hitler: either you're a member of the aryan race, paying your respects to the fuhrer, or i'm sending you to the death camps. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to the camps.

jeezus krist: either you're a member of christianity, worshipping me as your "savior," or i'm sending you to hell. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to hell.

What on earth is the difference?

but jeeesus is love!

[squanto]

Anyone with the courage to put their prejudices and indoctrinations and upbringing and self-centered view of the universe aside and look at Christianity rationally and objectively will probably have the courage to abandon it as well.

[squanto]

adolph hitler: either you're a member of the aryan race, paying your respects to the fuhrer, or i'm sending you to the death camps. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to the camps.

jeezus krist: either you're a member of christianity, worshipping me as your "savior," or i'm sending you to hell. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to hell.

What on earth is the difference?

I brought you back to the green side!

Really good question, I'm sure the fundies will "miss" that one.

[JAGERBOY]

I brought you back to the green side!

Really good question, I'm sure the fundies will "miss" that one.

Not so fast! I repped him today too and my rep power is mightier than yours.

[grup910]

damn you reppers - I thrive in the red!! :evil:

[Robby Coker]

adolph hitler: either you're a member of the aryan race, paying your respects to the fuhrer, or i'm sending you to the death camps. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to the camps.

jeezus krist: either you're a member of christianity, worshipping me as your "savior," or i'm sending you to hell. all jews, gays, buddhists, and gypsies are going to hell.

What on earth is the difference?

Hitler was simply a VERY bad man. He was just out to kill and only killed a selective group of people.


On the concept of Hell, I do not believe that God sends anyone there. Also, like most Christians, I do not believe that people send themselves there because who would voluntarily send themselves to a place like that?

What I believe is that a person simply floats to a given level of the afterlife based on the state of his soul or spirit (lost or saved). If he's lost (unsaved), he has an affinity for the negative section of the afterlife - Hell.

From a variety of Near-Death Experiences NDE's, Hell has been described as:
lifeless or threatening Demons
barren or ugly expanses
terrible smells
fire in some cases
total darkness
threats
screams or silence
danger and the possibility of violence, torture;
a feeling of cold (or temperature extremes) and a sense of burning in hellfire

http://www.mindpowernews.com/NearDeathInHell.htm

To Hell And Back by Maurice Rawlings is a good video to watch concerning Hell. It shows testimonies of people who went to that place while clinically dead and then came back. Maurice Rawlings was a devout Atheist at one time.
http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Back-Dr-M.../dp/B000P0ZAFA

You can watch the video here:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...10474021109864

Jesus Christ is the only one who can save you from this horrible place. You have to believe in Him and accept Him as your Lord and Savior, and believe that he died on the cross for your sins.

If a Jew, gay, Buddhist, or Gypsy were to go to Hell, it wouldn't be because he/she was any of those, it would be because he/she did not believe in Jesus Christ as his Savior.

[grup910]

On the concept of Hell, I do not believe that God sends anyone there. Also, like most Christians, I do not believe that people send themselves there because who would voluntarily send themselves to a place like that?

What I believe is that a person simply floats to a given level of the afterlife based on the state of his soul or spirit (lost or saved). If he's lost (unsaved), he has an affinity for the negative section of the afterlife - Hell.

that's great, but we're not talking about what you believe. we're talking about christian doctrine -- what christianity says. xianity says you're going to hell if you're not "saved" by jeezus krist, just like adolph hitler said you're going to the death camps if you're not a german, aryan, nazi, etc. same difference.

[Enso]

If a Jew, gay, Buddhist, or Gypsy were to go to Hell, it wouldn't be because he/she was any of those, it would be because he/she did not believe in Jesus Christ as his Savior.

That makes no sense whatsoever. A Jew or Buddhist by very definition does not accept Jesus as his 'savior'...though they would likely value his teachings.

I don't remember reading anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said members of other faiths are going to hell. He placed emphasis on the hearts (intention) of men and their acts. The my way or the highway was a doctrine adopted by the church in an attempt to convert people to Christianity making it out to be superior.

[Robby Coker]

That makes no sense whatsoever. A Jew or Buddhist by very definition does not accept Jesus as his 'savior'...though they would likely value his teachings.

The Buddhist texts even prophesied the coming of a Savior, which they referred to as the Holy One.

As you mentioned, like many Jewish people, Buddhists simply don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Most (if not all) Buddhists don't even believe in God.


I believe it's possible for a Buddhist to get born-again/saved if he accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior just like Jewish people can get born-again/saved. There are born-again Jewish people.

[Enso]

The Buddhist texts even prophesied the coming of a Savior, which they referred to as the Holy One.

As you mentioned, like many Jewish people, Buddhists simply don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Most (if not all) Buddhists don't even believe in God.

Yeah, Buddha's last reincarnation....Maitreya. There are some who believe Jesus may have been it. Concerning God, you are right...but it has more to do with the western concept of God than the concept itself (though Pure Land Buddhism is virtually the same as Christianity). Buddha, simply because he knew no words could conceptualize the beginning or the creator, chose instead to focus on the here and now. However, the mystical encounter of the Void as described by Buddhist is the exact same as the mystical encounter with God by Christian mystics...so there is definitely some common ground...only the words are different. The experience is the same it seems. That is why many priests and nuns in Europe and the East are practicing zazen and getting approval to lead sesshin and teach.

[Robby Coker]

Yeah, Buddha's last reincarnation....Maitreya. There are some who believe Jesus may have been it. Concerning God, you are right...but it has more to do with the western concept of God than the concept itself (though Pure Land Buddhism is virtually the same as Christianity). Buddha, simply because he knew no words could conceptualize the beginning or the creator, chose instead to focus on the here and now. However, the mystical encounter of the Void as described by Buddhist is the exact same as the mystical encounter with God by Christian mystics...so there is definitely some common ground...only the words are different. The experience is the same it seems. That is why many priests and nuns in Europe and the East are practicing zazen and getting approval to lead sesshin and teach.

WHOA! Wait a minute!


Everyone, DO NOT buy into the lie about Maitreya being the return of the Messiah!.

It's stated by various people that Maitreya may be the coming Anti-Christ (Beast described in the Book of Revelation) who will deceive everybody and proclaim himself as God. It's said that he will usher in a One World Religion.
http://www.sherrytalkradio.com/maitreya/index.htm
He has been expected for generations by all of the major religions. Christians know Him as the Christ, and expect His imminent return. Jews await Him as the Messiah; Hindus look for the coming of Krishna; Buddhists expect Him as Maitreya Buddha; and Muslims anticipate the Imam Mahdi or Messiah.

The names may be different, but many believe they all refer to the same individual: the World Teacher, whose name is Maitreya (My-'tray-ah).

Preferring to be known simply as the Teacher, Maitreya has not come as a religious leader, or to found a new religion, but as a teacher and guide for people of every religion and those of no religion.

http://www.redmoonrising.com/maitreya.htm
Maitreya to appear at a time when catastrophic events are overtaking the earth.
"This 'end of an age' inevitably produces a certain number of natural disasters such as floods and earthquakes, and we are seeing a dramatic climax in the number of disasters taking place around the world... Maitreya says: 'The last time I came, as Jesus, it was written in the Bible that when I appeared again the very elements of nature would be disturbed.' " "...After the disasters have peaked there will come a period of calm -the violence and destruction will come to an end. As people gain awareness, their guilt will recede..."
Maitreya's Mission, Volume Two, Benjamin Creme, Share International Foundation, 1993, pp186-187
The Antichrist to appear at a time when catastrophic events are overtaking the earth.The Biblical "Day of the Lord" begins with a Polar Shift of the earth. This period of judgement will include earthquakes, meteor impacts, (one large one in Rev. 8:8), major famines and plagues, intense heat from the sun, and many other catastrophic events.

Maitreya is essentially said to be the Christ-wannabe - Anti-Christ.
http://www.letusreason.org/NAM15.htm

[Enso]

Lol. Maitreya an Anti-Christ...? That is commical.

[Robby Coker]

Lol. Maitreya an Anti-Christ...? That is commical. Still, what are you worried about? The end of the earth is supposed to be a good time for Christians.

Actually, it's not the end of the earth. It's the end of the age although in the age after the next age, there will be a re-creation/renewal of this earth. Before this age ends and the new one begins, there will be a great tribulation of 7 years. This is the time when the Anti-Christ takes over. The Anti-Christ WILL proclaim himself as God and Messiah, and many will become deceived.

The first 3.5 years will be a time of peace. However, in the next 3.5 years, everything gets really really bad. The Anti-Christ will become oppressive, tyrannical, and evil as he can be. He will be Satan in a physical body, and that's when he gets really mean. After the first 3.5 years are up, the Anti-Christ will get shot/wounded. Then Satan resurrects him and takes over his body.

[Enso]

I used to read Revelations all the time. Heck, I even formed a group in school when I was younger. That book always fascinated me for some reason. I have since come to not take it as a literal interpretation of the last days, but as metaphorical description of the path of the spiritual development of one's soul.

[hokiebird]

That makes no sense whatsoever. A Jew or Buddhist by very definition does not accept Jesus as his 'savior'...though they would likely value his teachings.

I don't remember reading anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said members of other faiths are going to hell. He placed emphasis on the hearts (intention) of men and their acts. The my way or the highway was a doctrine adopted by the church in an attempt to convert people to Christianity making it out to be superior.

YOu are partially right... but it is Jesus' Heaven. and in order to get there you must worship him. It is not like you can worship other gods and stil go there.

[JAGERBOY]

YOu are partially right... but it is Jesus' Heaven. and in order to get there you must worship him. It is not like you can worship other gods and stil go there.

What if Jesus didn't exist and the heaven that does exist has nothing to do with him?

[kev108]

I suppose the same question can be raised for every other religion.

[kev108]

The Buddhist texts even prophesied the coming of a Savior, which they referred to as the Holy One.

As you mentioned, like many Jewish people, Buddhists simply don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Most (if not all) Buddhists don't even believe in God.


I believe it's possible for a Buddhist to get born-again/saved if he accepts Jesus Christ as his Lord and Savior just like Jewish people can get born-again/saved. There are born-again Jewish people.

Which buddhist text are you refferring to? There are different forms of buddhism. In Zen , the idea of a savior or messiah figure can be regarded as something derived from the ego or an attachment to a hallucination.

[Ajulaks]

Because you get nothing but illusons and a boring way of life , if able to open your eyes you leave in disappointment

[jlick]

The answer to this question is simple; Sin.

[LunicaAshes]

The answer to this question is simple; Sin.

Actually, it's not that simple. I know thinking as much makes life easy on you, but care to elaborate?

How was it sin that made me decide that I couldn't justify believing in any god? I didn't leave the church and then do this. I didn't do or want to do bad things. I just grew up, and while doing so, stopped believing. Plain and simple as that. I didn't question things, I didn't dislike the rules, I just could no longer believe. Just like how I stopped believing in santa and the tooth fairy. It felt exactly the same way. One day I just realized it made no sense and was not real.

[grup910]

The answer to this question is simple; Sin.

oh, that's deep.


hear that, everyone? if you're not dumb enough to believe in the christian b.s., it's because you're full of "sin."


guess what? worshipping a human being is "sin," according to the 10 commandments. Oops. :-o

[Silvio Dante]

oh, that's deep.


hear that, everyone? if you're not dumb enough to believe in the christian b.s., it's because you're full of "sin."


guess what? worshipping a human being is "sin," according to the 10 commandments. Oops. :-o

Thats right and why do they worship images, even though it's said GOD HAS NO IMAGE. Stop making your own rules. Unless you admit you just feel like making stuff up cause you want to have a image and don't care about the original teachings.

[jlick]

Actually, it's not that simple. I know thinking as much makes life easy on you, but care to elaborate?

How was it sin that made me decide that I couldn't justify believing in any god? I didn't leave the church and then do this. I didn't do or want to do bad things. I just grew up, and while doing so, stopped believing. Plain and simple as that. I didn't question things, I didn't dislike the rules, I just could no longer believe. Just like how I stopped believing in santa and the tooth fairy. It felt exactly the same way. One day I just realized it made no sense and was not real.

it's funny how Atheists think Christians think the way they do because it makes life easy on them. I argue the opposite. I have to face trials, tribulations, and temptations on a daily basis. It is no easy task by any means. Luckily the payoff is wonderful, and makes me a better, stronger person every single day. As I have said before, being an atheist makes life on earth much easier because nothing really matters in the end, am i right?

The tooth fairy analogy is always an amusing one. You stopped believing in the toothy fairy because; your parents* told you it was actually them who gave you the money, or you caught them in the act. Now lets ask why you stopped believing in God. Did someone tell you how exactly everything was created without undeniable proof? Or did you happen to actually happen to catch the creation of everything while it was happening? Answer these questions and we can continue the discussion.


*replace parents with who ever told you what actually happens

[LunicaAshes]

it's funny how Atheists think Christians think the way they do because it makes life easy on them. I argue the opposite. I have to face trials, tribulations, and temptations on a daily basis. It is no easy task by any means. Luckily the payoff is wonderful, and makes me a better, stronger person every single day. As I have said before, being an atheist makes life on earth much easier because nothing really matters in the end, am i right?

But isn't it easier for you to say I don't believe because of sin than actually taking my personal situation, and that of others, into account? Situations that were not sinful.

The tooth fairy analogy is always an amusing one. You stopped believing in the toothy fairy because; your parents* told you it was actually them who gave you the money, or you caught them in the act. Now lets ask why you stopped believing in God. Did someone tell you how exactly everything was created without undeniable proof? Or did you happen to actually happen to catch the creation of everything while it was happening? Answer these questions and we can continue the discussion.


*replace parents with who ever told you what actually happens

I was never told what actually happens. I never caught them in the act. I just figured it out and couldn't believe otherwise since.

[Enso]

What if Jesus didn't exist and the heaven that does exist has nothing to do with him?

Like the Pure Land version?

http://www.abrc.org.au/welcome.htm

http://www.abrc.org.au/purelandbuddhism.htm

Jesus would still be there though, as Jesus could easily be seen as a Bodhisattva.

[Mafiafolife77]

church is boring as hell. pretty much enough to turn anyone away.

[jlick]

But isn't it easier for you to say I don't believe because of sin than actually taking my personal situation, and that of others, into account? Situations that were not sinful.

Sure it is easier for me to say that. Summing things up are always easier then taking the time elaborate on every single little thing that has lead up to an event.

Also, what someone would consider not sinful could very well be a sin. This is completely ignoring the fact that we have ALL inherited sin.

I was never told what actually happens. I never caught them in the act. I just figured it out and couldn't believe otherwise since.

So you are saying you have stopped believing because you "just figured it out"? looks like this discussion was over before it even started