What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?

[Robby Coker]

I'm a Christian myself. Although it's considered to be another organized religion, I personally believe that it's not one because the original meaning of being a Christian simply means being born-again (saved) - believing in and accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Jesus Christ did not come to Earth to create a new religion. The actual meaning of Christianity is the gospel, another word for the good news.
The Roman Emperor Constantine in 325 A.D. was the one who turned Christianity into an actual organized religion. Constantine was born a pagan and had always worshipped the sun god, Sol Ichthus. Even after converting to Christianity, he still worshipped the sun god (albeit secretly so) for the remainder of his life. After Constantine came into power, pagan elements began to come into the Christian religion (which I refer to as Christendom).


The following, I think, are some things that turn people away from Christianity (the gospel):

1) False Gospels

-Gospel of Exclusion - claims it's impossible for certain types of people to get and be saved. Examples of groups: certain income classes (e.g. wealthy), certain races, use of Bible translations besides KJV, people outside of sexual norms, those who celebrate holidays, etc. The mythologicalized/Dante's version of Hell is often used to not only get people converted but to threaten people to submit to obedience to authority and rules. This was done in the 4th century after Christianity was turned into an organized religion.

-Gospel of Inclusion - teaches that everyone is saved already or will definitely be saved sometime later. This makes the born-again (salvation) experience not necessary at all.

-Gospel of Election - teaches that on a select number of people (in this current time) are chosen for salvation. It claims that the Holy Spirit draws a set people to salvation. Sometimes, this is referred to as a special salvation. Like the Gospel of Inclusion, this makes the born-again (salvation) experience unnecessary.

-Gospel of Works - Catholics often teach this. They say that you have to obtain and maintain salvation by works.


Jesus Christ preached the Gospel of Renunciation where you believe in and accept Him as your Lord and Savior.
http://www.daveandangel.com/CRN/The_...be_saved.shtml

He commanded the preaching of this Gospel out of love and compassion.


These False Gospels essentially imply that Jesus was crucified for no reason.



2) Heresies (sects)

These are some examples:

-Universalism - they believe everybody goes to Heaven after they die - regardless of belief, or that everyone ends up saved sometime later. Many don't believe in Hell. This makes the born-again/salvation experience not necessary at all.

-Jehovah Witnesses, 7th Day Adventist - they teach that you obtain/maintain salvation by works in order to get to Heaven/Paradise. Also, they are very religious. Most don't consider JW as Christian. Additionally, they don't believe in Hell. They believe that the unsaved/lost cease to exist after physical death. Atheists believe similarly in that humans cease to exist after death. These churches tend to claim that they're the only authentic Christian ones. Once again, this makes the born-again/salvation experience unnecessary.

-Judgmentalism - They appear to have a grandiose delusional disorder as they feel that they are over every Christian. They are way too religious for a Christian. They preach fear. They use paganized versions of Hell to intimidate people to convert and to submit to various rules. They often think that they can choose who's going to Hell and who isn't. Like the 7th Day Adventist and JW, churches who are Judgmentalist proclaim that they are the authentic Christian church. This fear-based sect simply turns people away from Christianity. Some of the most extremist and hateful, intolerant, or even violent Christians were probably Judgmentalists.

-Gnosticism - claimed that they had an exclusive special knowledge of salvation. Believed in a "higher power" but not necessarily in God.

-The New Age Movement - many New Agers proclaim that there are many ways to God (which is something that "sounds good" on the outset). They believe that Jesus can't possibly be the only way.
Here's a video clip of Oprah preaching something like this:
http://www.watchman.org/oprah.htm







3) Biblical Issues

- Bible Literalism - interpreting the Bible literally leads to many contradictions in the Bible. Many fundamentalists believe that the Bible contains "literal truth" rather than spiritual truth. Bible Literalism has actually been declared a modern day heresy by some.

- Claims that the KJV was the first and original Bible written - the Bible was originally written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, not English.

- English Bible mistranslations - Many English Bibles aren't translated most correctly word-for-word from the original Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Some are worse than others, particularly the Minority Text translations. IMO, the YLT (Young's Literal Translation) Bible is the most correct translation to the orignal languages, and it's also based on the Majority Text (which the KJV uses) which most original autographs agree on. However, it's more difficult to read than the others. It's been said that the Latin Vulgate Bible was the translation that led to corruption of many of our English translations.


These are some reasons why the Bible gets a reputation for being flawed and being a book of fairytales and fables.

God said that the Bible contains spiritual truth and that it should be read/interpreted spiritually and prayerfully. The Bible is infallible in its original autographs.



4) Common Errors with other Christians

A couple of them I've noticed:

-Believe that Jesus spoke English during his ministry - he spoke Aramaic, not English.

-Belief that the KJV is totally inerrant - not true. Even the translators said that it wasn't perfect and inerrant. I've found obvious errors in the KJV as there were things that didn't line up with the original languages. It's one of the better translations simply because it uses the Majority Text. However, it's not best when it comes to word-for-word translation.

[Black_Spit]

What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?

Just that I do not believe any of it to be fact.

[JAGERBOY]

What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?

Because its not reality and I like my beliefs to be based on the whats true and not what makes me feel better.

[drakes67]

Actually I think the biggest thing that turns people away are people who are to in your face trying to preach religion. When Jesus said go and make disciples throughout the nations I don't think he was saying go and tell people they are wrong in what they believe and they should listen to you because you are right. Instead I believe he meant go and do good works and let your actions show who you are and what you believe in. Live your life like me (Jesus) and people will know who you follow. I will tell you now I have seen more people listen and want to know more about God when one is showing compasion, fellowship, and lending a hand when needed not when someone is in there face saying repent and you will be saved. Thats what turns people off. The stuff you mentioned just gives people fire power to knock Christianity and say how bad or wrong it is.

[Qijofeuih]

The fact that they believe humans are important enough to be the only species that goes to heaven.

The fact that they say all non-believers will go to hell.

Some stupid old woman in the super market yelling at me for buying condoms because I'm "apparently too young at the time". Then acting like a victim when I tell her she's just mad noone would want her saggy ugly looking ass and that's she's worthless like week old milk.

Overall I would say it's not Jesus/god that I dislike, it's the followers in general. They are annoying as ****.

[drakes67]

The fact that they believe humans are important enough to be the only species that goes to heaven.

The fact that they say all non-believers will go to hell.

Some stupid bitch in the super market yelling at me for buying condoms because I'm "apparently too young at the time".

Overall I would say it's not Jesus/god that I dislike, it's the followers in general. They are annoying as ****.

Point in case. Bad experience with people who would rather preach than help.

[bmy-]

If people would..

"Preach the gospel and when necessary use words."

I think we'd be better off. Quality over quantity so to speak.

[JAGERBOY]

I think this thread and the excuses being made are a cop out. Yes some of the negative aspects of Christianity and its followers make me dislike it that much more. However if I truly felt it was factual it wouldn't matter how negative certain parts/people were, because I would have to accept it as reality. There would be no "turning away" if I fealt it was true.

[drakes67]

I think this thread and the excuses being made are a cop out. Yes some of the negative aspects of Christianity and its followers make me dislike it that much more. However if I truly felt it was factual it wouldn't matter how negative certain parts/people were, because I would have to accept it as reality. There would be no "turning away" if I fealt it was true.

The title of the thread is what turns people away from Christianity, not do you think Christianity is real and why do you choose not to believe. That is your choice to not believe and I completely respect that. I don't think there were any cop outs. I think people were stating what the turn offs were for a good portion of non believers. You cannot argue that a bad run in or people who shed negative light on the religion help in playing a part in detering people.

[Thinman]

To me, Christianity has gotten to political. It seems a lot of Christians are more concerned with bashing gays, trying to outlaw abortion or forcing their beliefs on people. It is a big turn off for me and most of the people I know.

[Qijofeuih]

I think this thread and the excuses being made are a cop out. Yes some of the negative aspects of Christianity and its followers make me dislike it that much more. However if I truly felt it was factual it wouldn't matter how negative certain parts/people were, because I would have to accept it as reality. There would be no "turning away" if I fealt it was true.

Of course religion is fake. That's a given, but you won't be able to have a decent conversation with someone if you go "Well your religion is fake" and then they will go "No it isn't" and the cycle repeats over and over. So focusing on how annoying the followers are is a better plan.

I could go ahead and say for------

Man created language
Man created writing
Man created writing tools(pen/pencil/paper/etching out words in stone)
Man created paper
Man created government

Government created religion to put a fear of something greater than prison in people for bad actions such as murder

Other governments then said "We don't like the idea that there's only 1 religion, we need to create our own." Or they didn't know about the other one and created their own anyway. Now to date we have people arguing which is the better religion.
----------------------------------
Also going to say by saying "Animals do not have souls and therefore they cannot go to heaven" is to say "My religion is fake."

Why? Because when you look up into the night sky and see all of the stars and everything out there, do you feel so self-important like you're the only living species in the entire universe? I hope not. That's very self centered.

If you said "No, there's other life somewhere out there" then obviously, religion is fake. What sense could be made from saying only humans go to heaven while others do not? None.

This point is the vital flaw in the bible and therefore it destroys all credibility and that's not even getting into the dinosaurs or the magic burning bush.

I don't claim to know how the universe came to be or what "God" is the right one, however I won't say "my god is the true god" like others will, to not know something for sure and speak it like it's true is just false hope that you're taking the right path. Therefore you do not know for sure and you should question the world for what it really is.

"Do I believe this because I was born into it?" "What is my own opinion of the world and matters as such?" "Why must I follow something just because I'm told to?"

It's important to learn to think for yourself instead of following the herd. Humans do not think, they simply take the option that is closest to them.

[bifodus]

If something exists and can be experienced, then it's studied using science. The supernatural (e.g., god) is not a part of science because the things it pertains to are nonfalsifiable. They aren't a part of human experience. That doesn't necessarily mean that a higher power (that we could never witness or understand) does not exist (in a broad sense of this term).

However, what Christians do is associate what's happening in our world with the supernatural as if there were some kind of perverse causality. "It hasn't rained in ten years so the gods hate us" type of reasoning. Science quickly shoots this down. You degenerate your beliefs when you throw in false prophecy or try to explain the real world using the supernatural.

I'm agnostic and very unspiritual. However, if you feel the urge to believe in something like reincarnation, I can appreciate that. That's a concept that is clearly nonfalsifiable, but it doesn't make the christian mistake of a real world association.

[Purge]

"What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?"

Sometimes, the people who claim to follow it.

[JAGERBOY]

The title of the thread is what turns people away from Christianity, not do you think Christianity is real and why do you choose not to believe. That is your choice to not believe and I completely respect that. I don't think there were any cop outs. I think people were stating what the turn offs were for a good portion of non believers. You cannot argue that a bad run in or people who shed negative light on the religion help in playing a part in detering people.

I find the title of this thread quite presumptuous. It infers that Christianity is obviously correct but us heathens turn away from it because of unattractive aspects. Its a cop out because you are trying to stray away from the fatal flaws of your religion and blaming it on its followers which is probably the least important factor in my decision of "turning away" from Christianity.

[jnani]

I think it basically has to with the intolerance by so many of its followers.

[grup910]

I don't really see much value in irrational, culturally oppressive, genocidal, superstitious mind control. As others have said, most of its followers are a major turn-off, too. :-o

[Robby Coker]

To me, Christianity has gotten to political. It seems a lot of Christians are more concerned with bashing gays, trying to outlaw abortion or forcing their beliefs on people. It is a big turn off for me and most of the people I know.

"Christianity" as a religious, social, political movement is what I call Christendom, not true Christianity.

"What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?"

Sometimes, the people who claim to follow it.

When you think about it, you've gotta question if those people had actually become born-again (saved). Some people assume that simply attending church and following some 'Christian' doctrine simply constitutes being a Christian.

Actually I think the biggest thing that turns people away are people who are to in your face trying to preach religion.

As I said, Constantine was the one who made Christianity into an organized religion. Then, many other Christian churches took after that.

When Jesus said go and make disciples throughout the nations I don't think he was saying go and tell people they are wrong in what they believe and they should listen to you because you are right. Instead I believe he meant go and do good works and let your actions show who you are and what you believe in. Live your life like me (Jesus) and people will know who you follow. I will tell you now I have seen more people listen and want to know more about God when one is showing compasion, fellowship, and lending a hand when needed not when someone is in there face saying repent and you will be saved. Thats what turns people off.

I agree.

The stuff you mentioned just gives people fire power to knock Christianity and say how bad or wrong it is.

Some people also get exposed to false teachers, and those teachers tend to turn them off.

Another heresy I forgot to mention:

-The New Age Movement - many New Agers proclaim that there are many ways to God (which is something that "sounds good" on the outset). They believe that Jesus can't possibly be the only way. Talk show host Oprah Winfrey is seemingly a spokeswoman for this. She preaches her own False Gospel (sometimes referred to as the Gospel According to Oprah) to the entire audience and ends up getting them to buy into the lie.

Here's a video clip of Oprah preaching this:
http://www.watchman.org/oprah.htm

In the video, a few people get up and speak out the Truth.

[GrokTheCube]

In one word: Huckabee

In one sentance: I don't want to be part of the attempt to theocratize America.

Brief explanation:

I was sent to Church by my parents until I was 13 or so. Around age 9, I realised God was about as real as the Easter Bunny. I came to this realisation through a simple analysis of facts. Around age 13, my parents let me stop going. I have no interest in being a Christian, or a declared member of any religious organization, sect, or cult. I explore my spirtuality on my own, and have no belief in an omnipotent god figure. I find organized religion to be limiting to me personally.

I am also profoundly disturbed by the militant nature of so many christians, and their attempts to push religion into politics. I fear this kind of christianity will be the downfall of western civilization, and perhaps the start of the next world war, that will end all life on the planet. Most non christians percieve the religion as one of hate and exclusion. I don't think this belief is without base.

I can't count the number of people who have told me I'm going to burn in hell because I don't follow their religion. I can't count the number of people who have told me that science is a tool of satan. I can't count the number of people who have told me they want to make the views of christianity secular law. I can't count the number of people who have told me I don't follow christianity because I'm a bad person, or controlled by the devil.

I generally tell them all the to **** off in a very polite way. "Thank you for your concern, but I'd feel most comfortable if we ended the conversation." or "I apreciate differing views, but I'd rather not go into this right now." or "My opinion differs, but I'm glad you feel so sure about things for yourself."

[Melkor]

I think it's grup. He's too smart for us dum Christians!

[bigmac366]

To me, Christianity has gotten to political. It seems a lot of Christians are more concerned with bashing gays, trying to outlaw abortion or forcing their beliefs on people. It is a big turn off for me and most of the people I know.

x346568898!!

[drakes67]

I find the title of this thread quite presumptuous. It infers that Christianity is obviously correct but us heathens turn away from it because of unattractive aspects. Its a cop out because you are trying to stray away from the fatal flaws of your religion and blaming it on its followers which is probably the least important factor in my decision of "turning away" from Christianity.

If you read the thread half or more mentioned its followers. Its when a club/religion/cult or whatever has people in it that make the name bad people start to pick on other things and find flaws in anything they can find. It starts with its members. Look at the Muslim religion for example. They are a people of peace, but because there are idiots out there blowing up everything they are making a bad name for everyone. People are picking out scripture and twisting it the way they want to make it look even worse and make it seem that all Muslims want to blow infidels up. Some choose to simply not believe and consider it fake like yourself. But the majority blame it on its followers as the turn off.

[Dave P]

What do you think it is that turns people away from Christianity?

Christians.

[timbo81]

predestination/election isn't heretical....


God knows the future, he knows who are going to be saved, he draws those he has chosen.

John 6:44: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day

[Lager1]

The insane beliefs of christians.

[LunicaAshes]

Losing my belief in the existence of any deity... that kinda put a damper on the rest of it.

[Beatitude]

predestination/election isn't heretical....

God knows the future, he knows who are going to be saved, he draws those he has chosen.

John 6:44: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day

The clarification to be made, Timbo, is the belief that predestination means that people don't have freewill and that God intentionally creates certain people just to send them to Hell for his glory, and that he creates certain people just to be saved for his glory.

Predestination and election are both Biblical doctrines, but past sects (traditional Calvinists) twisted the doctrine into something else entirely.

[bmy-]

predestination/election isn't heretical....


God knows the future, he knows who are going to be saved, he draws those he has chosen.

John 6:44: 'No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day

Are you suggesting that some people can not be saved? If God is acting on those he has 'chosen' he is also acting against those he 'chose' against.

If God knew in advance if they would be saved or not.. why would he bother helping anyone? It would have no impact on their eventual destination.

[Jeopardy]

Nevermind

[OatsandSteak]

Well how about the fact that their are three huge Christian groups that claim different ****, then get mad and kill eachother over it. Then add into that 1000's of sects/cults and denominations. So I have to choose the right one? Or can I just accept Christ as my savior? Then what if Christianity is wrong? What if it's Islam that is right or maybe Hinduism or Judiasm, maybe even Buddhism. Then there are all the sects among them. Or maybe they all come down to there being one God and no matter what religion you are in as long as you worship that God you are saved.

But whoever is wrong is going to Hell? Or as long as we are good people we will not go to Hell? I'm told different **** everyday on this board.

[Robby Coker]

I think it basically has to with the intolerance by so many of its followers.

The judgmentalists or extreme fundamentalists are often like this.
Take http://www.av1611.org as an example. They condemn basically everything and see things as if through "dark glasses."

Most other Christians I hang out with don't show intolerance.

In one word: Huckabee

Wasn't he the candidate who wanted to implement concepts of the Bible into the U.S. Constitution?

Brief explanation:

I was sent to Church by my parents until I was 13 or so. Around age 9, I realised God was about as real as the Easter Bunny. I came to this realisation through a simple analysis of facts. Around age 13, my parents let me stop going. I have no interest in being a Christian, or a declared member of any religious organization, sect, or cult. I explore my spirtuality on my own, and have no belief in an omnipotent god figure. I find organized religion to be limiting to me personally.

Which denomination did you belong when you attended church at the time?

I am also profoundly disturbed by the militant nature of so many christians, and their attempts to push religion into politics. I fear this kind of christianity will be the downfall of western civilization, and perhaps the start of the next world war, that will end all life on the planet. Most non christians percieve the religion as one of hate and exclusion. I don't think this belief is without base.

That's one reason why I'm glad for Separation of Church and State. Religion should stay out of politics.

I can't count the number of people who have told me I'm going to burn in hell because I don't follow their religion. I can't count the number of people who have told me that science is a tool of satan. I can't count the number of people who have told me they want to make the views of christianity secular law. I can't count the number of people who have told me I don't follow christianity because I'm a bad person, or controlled by the devil.

Following religious dogma & church attendance will not give you eternal life, and therefore, will not get you into Heaven. Only belief in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior will.

If you decide to go back to church someday, I would go to a non-denominational type.

Those Christians who claim that science is a tool of Satan are making absurd statements. They don't know what they're talking about. The Bible actually supports science. Science has played a large role in our great technological advances over the years. Technology is the application of science used to achieve various objectives.
I am never quick to blame something on Satan (Devil). Christians, whenever they do something wrong, tend to make the excuse that "The Devil made me do it!" I believe many Christians give Satan too much attention and constantly blame him for pretty much everything and even things that don't agree with them.