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  1. #1
    Registered User benz5521's Avatar
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    How bad is sugar for gains?

    I can't get enough calories in a day to make good gains. I just don't have the appetite. So I just started using a commercial weight gainer to get an extra 700-800 calories in my diet for the day. But these things are loaded with sugar. How bad is the sugar? Is it just unhealthy or does it affect muscle growth?
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  2. #2
    Registered User Zanelike's Avatar
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    You want to be careful with a lot of excess sugar. It can spike your blood sugar which will cause an excess amount of insulin to be released that will make it more likely that your body will store that energy as fat rather than moving it into your muscles which is where you want it. It can also cause you to crash. A lot of those weight gainers are just glorified cake mix. Post up your current diet. Sometimes adding a bit here and there to your current diet may make it easier to get the extra calories that you need.
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  3. #3
    Registered User IMAPACKERFAN's Avatar
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    Why not just make your own shakes? Whole milk, oats, whey, PB, banana.
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  4. #4
    intermittent fasting .ridiculous's Avatar
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    sugar and transfats are the things i always try to avoid. I just see table sugar making me really fat
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  5. #5
    Registered User Rally Dog's Avatar
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    I'd say sugar and carbs are very important for gains especially post-workout. You can chug down all the protein you want but with out any kind of insuin production post work-out you'll drastically limit your results. Pre-workout a fruit would be good to get things going. Post workout I've had great luck with Waxy Maize in my shake.
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  6. #6
    Registered User NathanTurner's Avatar
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    If your diet is on target, I don't see a problem with adding 200-400 calories per day in the way of "less than favorable carbs." Personally, I would probably limit them to training days and keep carbs down a bit on non-training days; but it really depends on your body.

    After my last and rather severe cut, I began a gaining cycle. My diet is mostly clean, but I do include a bit of sugar and "cheating" here and there, and I haven't noticed any problem. I went from 190 to 210 in a two month period with only 3-5lbs of fat gain, which I consider pretty good. It would be preferable to get your food from whole sources; but a bit of "cutting the corners" here and there shouldn't hurt too bad. Just keep an eye on it and change things around if you need to.
    "Everyday, Jesus humbles himself just as He did when He came from His heavenly throne into the Virgin’s womb; everyday He comes to us and lets us see Him in abjection, when He descends from the bosom of the Father into the hands of the priest at the altar." -- St. Francis of Assisi
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by Zanelike View Post
    will cause an excess amount of insulin to be released that will make it more likely that your body will store that energy as fat rather than moving it into your muscles which is where you want it.
    How do you think glucose gets into muscle?
    No sir, I don't like it.
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  8. #8
    Registered User benz5521's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NathanTurner View Post
    If your diet is on target, I don't see a problem with adding 200-400 calories per day in the way of "less than favorable carbs." Personally, I would probably limit them to training days and keep carbs down a bit on non-training days; but it really depends on your body.

    After my last and rather severe cut, I began a gaining cycle. My diet is mostly clean, but I do include a bit of sugar and "cheating" here and there, and I haven't noticed any problem. I went from 190 to 210 in a two month period with only 3-5lbs of fat gain, which I consider pretty good. It would be preferable to get your food from whole sources; but a bit of "cutting the corners" here and there shouldn't hurt too bad. Just keep an eye on it and change things around if you need to.
    Yea well see I mainly eat lots of chicken and tuna with rice usually, sometimes pasta. But the problem is that stuff doesn't have a lot of calories. So I'm eating healthy and getting the protein and carbs I need but not the calories. Which is why I started using weight gainer, so that all the carbs and protein I'm consuming can actually be used for gains. I've put on some weight but not at the rate I should be so I figured I might as well stop worrying about such a clean diet since I'm having trouble gaining that way.
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  9. #9
    Surgeon By 2012 or Bust! -Aaron-'s Avatar
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    Sugar, Transfat, HFCS, etc... don't make you fat.
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  10. #10
    Registered User baarat's Avatar
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    It's all glucose it doesn't matter what the source is. It's more about empty calories and insulin and the total amount in relation to your maintainence imo.
    Keep sugar in moderation.
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  11. #11
    Registered User pengh's Avatar
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    Eat some natty PB. You can get 600 + Cals with a few 4-5 Tbsp. It's hard to stop eating.
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  12. #12
    Chef Bob The Solution's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by benz5521 View Post
    Yea well see I mainly eat lots of chicken and tuna with rice usually, sometimes pasta.
    So your telling me pasta is not caloric dense enugh for you?

    i beg to differ you have tried eating these for a few meals a day and hell it woulndt be very satisfying unless your downing a ton of water or a boatload of veggies on the side to bloat you.

    2 oz of pasta should be nothing for someone your size and if you have that at every meal thats an easy 40-50g of carbs, add some EVOO on top of that and its an instant 14g of fat add some chicken and a small side of veg and eat that a few times a day and youll pack on the calories a lot cleaner and a lot easier

    try bulking up on oats as well.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by -Aaron- View Post
    Sugar, Transfat, HFCS, etc... don't make you fat.
    expound please

    i know in small/moderate amounts they dont, but not many people are lean with large amounts of the above in their diet, unless they are extremely ecto, even then it will eventually catch up.

    Originally Posted by LayzieBone085 View Post
    So your telling me pasta is not caloric dense enugh for you?

    i beg to differ you have tried eating these for a few meals a day and hell it woulndt be very satisfying unless your downing a ton of water or a boatload of veggies on the side to bloat you.

    2 oz of pasta should be nothing for someone your size and if you have that at every meal thats an easy 40-50g of carbs, add some EVOO on top of that and its an instant 14g of fat add some chicken and a small side of veg and eat that a few times a day and youll pack on the calories a lot cleaner and a lot easier

    try bulking up on oats as well.
    Fantastic advice, oats and pasta are extremely calorie dense....goodness, bulking on 4000+ cals a day would not be a problem for me.
    Last edited by gatsby121; 03-26-2008 at 08:27 AM.
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  14. #14
    Registered User lednasmr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zanelike View Post
    You want to be careful with a lot of excess sugar. It can spike your blood sugar which will cause an excess amount of insulin to be released that will make it more likely that your body will store that energy as fat rather than moving it into your muscles which is where you want it. It can also cause you to crash. A lot of those weight gainers are just glorified cake mix. Post up your current diet. Sometimes adding a bit here and there to your current diet may make it easier to get the extra calories that you need.
    you need to go back to bio 1
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  15. #15
    Registered User A.J.PT's Avatar
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    actually...sugar is quite good for gains...in fact...there is nothing better IF eaten at the right time. If you ate table sugar in your whey shake immediately pwo it would enhance muscle growth/recovery optimally.
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  16. #16
    Registered User Zanelike's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mr. Horse View Post
    How do you think glucose gets into muscle?
    But there's a threshold. If you go above that threshold glucose is shuttled away from muslce tissues and into adipose tissue. That is why low GI carbs are recommended except PWO, because they give a steady stream of sugars to the system and not a giant shock like with high GI carbs. After you workout your muscles are depleted of glycogen. If it was as simple as just putting sugar into your systemthen why wouldn't you just slam back a litres of pop all day instead of eating things like oats, yams and brown rice? Because it is very complex and insulin can be very helpful or very detrimental to the results you get from all your hard work.
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  17. #17
    What doesn't kill me..... AbAbber2k's Avatar
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    Drink milk. A lot.
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  18. #18
    Registered User icery's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Zanelike View Post
    But there's a threshold. If you go above that threshold glucose is shuttled away from muslce tissues and into adipose tissue. That is why low GI carbs are recommended except PWO, because they give a steady stream of sugars to the system and not a giant shock like with high GI carbs. After you workout your muscles are depleted of glycogen. If it was as simple as just putting sugar into your systemthen why wouldn't you just slam back a litres of pop all day instead of eating things like oats, yams and brown rice? Because it is very complex and insulin can be very helpful or very detrimental to the results you get from all your hard work.
    sugars can spike insulin, but don't forget that the insulin also drops off more quickly. In contrast, complex carbs raise insulin to a lower magnitude, but for a longer duration. This means simple carbs inhibit lipolysis to a greater manitude, but for a short period, while complex carbs inhibit it to a lesser magnnitude, but for a longer period. The net effect is the same.
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  19. #19
    Registered User Zanelike's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by lednasmr View Post
    you need to go back to bio 1
    Really? then explain it to me.
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    It depends on where you get your sugar from. If you get your suagr from processed foods, it will spike your insulin. Eat fruit, it won't spike. =^)
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  21. #21
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    Originally Posted by icery View Post
    sugars can spike insulin, but don't forget that the insulin also drops off more quickly. In contrast, complex carbs raise insulin to a lower magnitude, but for a longer duration. This means simple carbs inhibit lipolysis to a greater manitude, but for a short period, while complex carbs inhibit it to a lesser magnnitude, but for a longer period. The net effect is the same.
    Straight from Colorado States physiology website


    The figure to the right depicts the effects on insulin secretion when enough glucose is infused to maintain blood levels two to three times the fasting level for an hour. Almost immediately after the infusion begins, plasma insulin levels increase dramatically. This initial increase is due to secretion of preformed insulin, which is soon significantly depleted. The secondary rise in insulin reflects the considerable amount of newly synthesized insulin that is released immediately. Clearly, elevated glucose not only simulates insulin secretion, but also transcription of the insulin gene and translation of its mRNA.

    Yes, initial insulin levels drop off but they are kept high with secondary insulin.
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  22. #22
    Registered User NathanTurner's Avatar
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    Benz,

    The foods you listed are very clean; especially the carbohydrate sources. It is optimal to get most of your carbohydrates from oats, brown rice, whole grain pastas, etc; but the sheer volume you have to eat is staggering after a while. However, I'm of the opinion that if you want to add carbohydrates, add clean carbohydrates over processed sugar on a consistent basis. Throw in some of that "Satan sugar" as Duchaine liked to call it every once in a while; but rely on whole, unprocessed food for the bulk of your diet.

    On training days, here are my carbohydrate sources (neglecting protein and fat sources for brevity):

    Breakfast:
    1.5 cups of raw oats (450 cal, 81g carbs)
    8 oz orange juice (100 cal, 24g carbs)
    i cup skim milk (80 cal, 11g carbs)

    Second meal:
    1.5 cups raw oats (450 cal, 81g carbs)
    1 cup skim milk (80 cal, 11g carbs)

    Post-Training shake, contains maltodextrin (126 cal, 30g carbs)

    Post-Training meal:
    1.5 cups brown rice (450 cal, 99g carbs)

    Fifth meal:
    1 cup brown rice (66g carbs)

    Altogether, around 400-410g carbs (counting tagalong carbs in things like eggs) from clean sources. A hell of a lot of volume, but with a heavy lifting routine, you'll get used to it.
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    Surgeon By 2012 or Bust! -Aaron-'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gatsby121 View Post
    expound please

    i know in small/moderate amounts they dont, but not many people are lean with large amounts of the above in their diet, unless they are extremely ecto, even then it will eventually catch up.
    People don't avoid, or shouldn't avoid, those things because they are fearful of fat gains... They avoid, or should avoid them because of their other negative health effects.
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    Just make your own. They're so much better

    1 scoop whey(120ish Cal)
    1 pint skim milk(180 Cal)
    4 tbsp Natty PB(360 Cal)
    1 Large Banana(110 Cal)

    770 Calories
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    Originally Posted by Zanelike View Post
    Yes, initial insulin levels drop off but they are kept high with secondary insulin.
    You didn't provide a link, but based on what you pasted it seems they were constantly infusing glucose hence the sustained insulin response. i.e. it wasn't a single dose of glucose.
    No sir, I don't like it.
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    Registered User dominicanito's Avatar
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    i cant find a firm answer to this question so a lil help please okokok i am cutting so im watching what i eat iz fruit bad for cutting because i heard it has sugar and reduces fat loss ?????????anybody kno
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    Originally Posted by dominicanito View Post
    i cant find a firm answer to this question so a lil help please okokok i am cutting so im watching what i eat iz fruit bad for cutting because i heard it has sugar and reduces fat loss ?????????anybody kno
    i dont like to have fruit during my cut except for grapefruit with some splenda on top.



    stick to carbs like:

    vegetables, oats, wild rice.
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    Be careful with excess sugar and carbohydrate consumption. It has been shown to significantly speed up the ageing and degeneration process. Calorific/Carbohydrate restriction is optimum for health. It may be useful applying, to some degree, these principles to your diet.

    "Centenarians, people who have lived over 100 years, don't have much in common. Many are smokers, for example. They come from all over the world without a favoring any geographic location in particular.

    However, there are 3 consistent blood metabolic indicators of all centenarians which are relatively consistent: low sugar, low triglycerides, and low insulin. All 3 are relatively low for age. Among these 3 variables, insulin is the common denominator. The level of insulin sensitivity of the cell is one of the most important markers of lifespan.

    Controlling your insulin levels is one of the most powerful anti-aging strategies you can possibly implement. Sugar and grains cause your body to produce insulin and high insulin levels are the single largest physical cause of accelerated aging. If you want to slow down aging and be healthy then you need to change your grains for greens. "
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    Originally Posted by NathanTurner View Post
    If your diet is on target, I don't see a problem with adding 200-400 calories per day in the way of "less than favorable carbs." Personally, I would probably limit them to training days and keep carbs down a bit on non-training days; but it really depends on your body.

    After my last and rather severe cut, I began a gaining cycle. My diet is mostly clean, but I do include a bit of sugar and "cheating" here and there, and I haven't noticed any problem. I went from 190 to 210 in a two month period with only 3-5lbs of fat gain, which I consider pretty good. It would be preferable to get your food from whole sources; but a bit of "cutting the corners" here and there shouldn't hurt too bad. Just keep an eye on it and change things around if you need to.
    that depends on the individual, there are many factors in play such as metabolism, activity level, lifting program and supplementation.
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    Originally Posted by vh7742 View Post
    Be careful with excess sugar and carbohydrate consumption. It has been shown to significantly speed up the ageing and degeneration process. Calorific/Carbohydrate restriction is optimum for health. It may be useful applying, to some degree, these principles to your diet.

    "Centenarians, people who have lived over 100 years, don't have much in common. Many are smokers, for example. They come from all over the world without a favoring any geographic location in particular.

    However, there are 3 consistent blood metabolic indicators of all centenarians which are relatively consistent: low sugar, low triglycerides, and low insulin. All 3 are relatively low for age. Among these 3 variables, insulin is the common denominator. The level of insulin sensitivity of the cell is one of the most important markers of lifespan.

    Controlling your insulin levels is one of the most powerful anti-aging strategies you can possibly implement. Sugar and grains cause your body to produce insulin and high insulin levels are the single largest physical cause of accelerated aging. If you want to slow down aging and be healthy then you need to change your grains for greens. "
    Interesting post, care to include some links?
    Be humble or be humbled.
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