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  1. #1
    Registered User Robby Coker's Avatar
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    Glutamine Deficiency

    I had a neurotransmitter test done back in August 30, 2007. It was confirmed on this test that I was substantially deficient in Glutamine.

    My Level:
    73
    Optimal Range:
    Day = 150-400
    Night = 100-350
    Observed Range:
    Day = 130-650
    Night = 100-500

    I did some research on Glutamine deficiency, and I read that it causes loss of lean mass. As far as the causes, from what I've read, Glutamine deficiency can be caused by severe trauma, infection or metabolic stress induced by a catabolic state or extreme physical exertion. Some sites say that it can be cause by fasting, starvation, and doing too much cardio.

    There was one period of time when I did tons of cardio 5-6 days per week. This was 5.5-6.0 years ago. The reason I did tons of cardio then was to lose fat that I gained from Depakote, and anti-convulsant given for bipolar disorder. That drug commonly causes weight gain as a side effect. Also, when I took that drug, I would cycle frequently from binging and fasting as that drug tended to cause an insatiable appetite. So, I wonder if these things could have depleted my Glutamine levels, and my Glutamine levels simply never returned back up to normal even after all of these years.

    Over late 2005 throughout half of 2006, I used whey protein fairly frequently, which averages 4 grams of Glutamine per scoop, but apparently, this wasn't enough to get my levels to optimal range.


    I read that taking Glutamine can stall muscle loss & fat gain, and I believe this especially applies if you were deficient in it to start with and had lower than average levels of lean mass (for someone your weight/height) as a result. Being under-muscled for my given weight/height has always been a problem for me.

    I started taking Glutamine in the middle of February to aggressively correct the deficiency, and since then I've gained almost 4 pounds, from 124 to 128. I started Panthothenic Acid as well because there's a probability that I have problems with adrenal insufficiency. I know the weight gain was all lean mass because I was gaining weight on substantially fewer Calories than what it normally takes for me to gain weight.

    Normally, at my activity level, I have to go above 2700-2800 to gain any kind of weight; 3000 Calories per day yields only 1/3-1/2 pound per week. However, at that level this time, I was gaining at a rate of almost 1.5 lbs per week as opposed to the normal 0.33-0.50 lb per week at that level.

    At 2650 Calories, I was gaining 1.3 pounds per week, which reflects a 650 Calorie surplus. This would've falsely showed that I was burning only 2000 Calories. If someone would've seen these numbers, then he would have gotten the impression that Glutamine and Pantothenic Acid slow your metabolism down. But in reality, I was actually burning at least 2700. So, I believe my body could've been regenerating lean mass. I read that muscle is 70% water.

    Also, after I started those two supplements, my appetite increased by alot, so I assumed that since my body needed to regenerate lost lean mass (presumably due to the Glutamine deficiency), it started to demand more Calories than before. Also, it's been known that if your metabolism rate increases, then your appetite increases along with it. Some research shows that those two supplements can actually help metabolism. So, I wonder if my real metabolism rate could've increased as well, and my appetite went up along with it, too.



    Has anyone else had a Glutamine deficiency like this? If so, how did this deficiency affect your progress in achieving your body composition goals?
    Last edited by Shiva_; 03-23-2008 at 12:15 PM.
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  2. #2
    Scarred Up Thug9's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    i alwayz tell ppl that it works for me but they be doubting me. Ive done testS (in plural) on myself. I gone a week without taking it and a week with taking it, when i take it My recovering rate I faster then when i dont take it. IF you call it the placebo affect, then its doing its job to me. I squeez the fibers of my muscle of my wings sometimes and i can feel some soreness and and workouts are better cuz of recovery. when i take it i can hit my muscles with intensity and get stronger b4 a full week.
    I contemplate, believing in karma
    Those on top could just break and wont be eating tomorrow
    I know some b!tch@s who be sleeping on n!gg@s dreams
    They leave when that n!gg@ blow she the first b!tch on her knees
    Knowing dudes thats neglecting their seeds
    Instead of taking care of em they spending money on trees
    I pray for you deadbeat daddies
    Cause when them kids get grown its too late for you
    Now you old and you getting sh!tted on

    -Nas
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  3. #3
    Registered User Phosphate bond's Avatar
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    Do you think you were overtrained?

    I am saying this because Plasma Glutamine levels appear not regulated by glutamine intake but rather ATP levels.

    In the high ATP state muscles/Kidneys form glutamine out of alpha keto glutarate and two ammonias. In the low ATP state muscles/kidneys break down glutamine in the reverse direction.

    In the kidney glutamine breakdown (linked to ATP levels) is related to fluid reabsorption. The idea here is that when ATP levels are low the kidney senses the body to be dehydrated. Dehydration= low ATP because oxygen cannot be circulated (low blood perfussion)

    P.S. I believe that low glutamine levels correlate, but are not causative to this condition. I also do not think that exogenous glutamine supplements will help increase intramuscular glutamine levels back to normal (other to provide raw ammonia for synthesis when ATP is high enough)
    Last edited by Phosphate bond; 03-23-2008 at 11:34 AM.
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  4. #4
    Registered User Robby Coker's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Phosphate bond View Post
    Do you think you were overtrained?
    I have an impression that I was back then, and it didn't seem to show up until late 2003.
    In late 2002, in addition to the frequent intense cardio, I was a full-time cart pusher at Wal-Mart Super Center. Pushing carts 8 hours per day, it was pretty much like on-going cardio. I believe that the last half of 2002 was the most active period in my life. Back then, I weighed 20-25 lbs more than I do now.
    Then, in beginning of 2003, I went to college for a semester and went to part-time. After the semester was over, I went back to full-time for the summer. I was very active then as well. But this time, I was working in 95+ degree weather, so the heat added a lot of stress.
    By late October, the physical & heat stress had caught up, and I began to suffer from frequent depression and severe mood swings of a bipolar nature. I was put on an SSRI, Lexapro, for those issues. During the whole time I took it, it helped. I stopped it in the middle of January because I felt like I no longer needed it as I had become more of a devout Christian at the time. But, I ended up collapsing. I quit my job. By February '04, I began to have more problems with fatigue and depression than ever. I got back onto the Lexapro but also got on Geodon as well. I got better and went back to my cart pushing job. Later on, these problems came back and ended up getting worse and worse as the year went on until I couldn't work at all for some time.

    I am saying this because Plasma Glutamine levels appear not regulated by glutamine intake but rather ATP levels.

    In the high ATP state muscles/Kidneys form glutamine out of alpha keto glutarate and two ammonias. In the low ATP state muscles/kidneys break down glutamine in the reverse direction.

    In the kidney glutamine breakdown (linked to ATP levels) is related to fluid reabsorption. The idea here is that when ATP levels are low the kidney senses the body to be dehydrated. Dehydration= low ATP because oxygen cannot be circulated (low blood perfussion)

    P.S. I believe that low glutamine levels correlate, but are not causative to this condition. I also do not think that exogenous glutamine supplements will help increase intramuscular glutamine levels back to normal (other to provide raw ammonia for synthesis when ATP is high enough)
    What's the best way to keep your ATP levels up if low ATP levels is a cause of low Glutamine.

    When I had the amino acid test done, it had been 10 months after I had last used whey protein (with 4g Glutamine per scoop) regularly. I was only using whey protein very sporadically.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Robby Coker's Avatar
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    Glutamine is also known to be a precursor to GABA, and also a precursor to Glutamate as well. Both GABA and Glutamate levels were normal. GABA was on the low side of normal, though.

    GABA

    My Level:
    1.8
    Optimal Range:
    Day = 1.5-4.0
    Night = 1.0-3.0
    Observed Range:
    Day = 1.5-35.0
    Night = 1.5-20.0

    Glutamate

    My Level:
    23
    Optimal Range:
    Day = 10-35
    Night = 8-20
    Observed Range:
    Day = 5-65
    Night = 5-35


    I read, though, that some people can have problems with converting Glutamine to GABA, and much of the Glutamine ends up getting converted to Glutamate instead. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter, and Glutamate is an excitatory neurotransmitter.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Phosphate bond's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Shiva_ View Post
    What's the best way to keep your ATP levels up if low ATP levels is a cause of low Glutamine.

    When I had the amino acid test done, it had been 10 months after I had last used whey protein (with 4g Glutamine per scoop) regularly. I was only using whey protein very sporadically.
    It could have been that your low intake of whey was the cause. With good protein intake enough ammonia (for glutamine syntesis under the right conditions) is never an issue.

    Hydration really helps ATP levels (and therefore cell volume) for obvious reasons.
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