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    Registered User import619's Avatar
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    fast twitch muscle fiber

    hey guys how do you know if you have fast twitch fibers in your body. Especially in the legs. Lately ive been working on getting my deadlift numbers up. 255lbsx6 reps at a bodyweight of 164 pretty descent? It seems to be helping me explode in the air.
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    test yourself with plyometrics
    watch me make Sir Issac Newton my bitch in my Oly log:
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    if u really want them in your legs get a box about 3inches high and just do step ups as fast as u can
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    people who have fast twitching fibers usually are good at powerlifting, sprint, explosive type stuff, but the fast twitch tends to fatigue faster. if a person has more slow twitching fibers, they tend to be long distance runners, high endurance, etc. its also more fatigue resistant than the fast twitching fiber. the fibers are genetically pre-determined. most people are 50/50, but there are those who have more than the other.

    just ask yourself, are you a high endurance athlete or a power athlete? endurance=slow fast=power.
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    test yourself with plyometrics
    no
    Originally Posted by adolfrugby View Post
    if u really want them in your legs get a box about 3inches high and just do step ups as fast as u can
    and no
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    Everyone has FT fibers. Everyone has ST fibers. Just a matter of which you have more.

    The different types of exercise will build the different types of fibers.
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    no


    and no

    Instead of just saying no, help the guy out
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    Instead of just saying no, help the guy out
    no lol
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    Originally Posted by import619 View Post
    hey guys how do you know if you have fast twitch fibers in your body. Especially in the legs. Lately ive been working on getting my deadlift numbers up. 255lbsx6 reps at a bodyweight of 164 pretty descent? It seems to be helping me explode in the air.
    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    Instead of just saying no, help the guy out
    cause i think he is asking the wrong question.
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    cause i think he is asking the wrong question.
    if you don't feel like helping don't say anything

    to the OP:
    Plyometics build up fast twitch muscles, as well as HIIT running. I have found this to work for me. There are plenty of good exercise programs out there.
    example:

    HIIT for sprinting:
    3-5 minutes of a warm up jog.
    10 seconds sprinting
    14 seconds moderate jog
    10 sec sprinting
    14 seconds moderate jog

    repeate process up until 14-20 minutes.

    I do this twice a week and i have gained speed and conditioned my fast twitch muscles, as well as lost fat.
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    The first portion of the deadlift is a slow motion, above the knee your accelerating.

    Femis Lambrionidis is one of the best example I found;
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8DnIOuFCq4

    It's off-topic I know, but I guess its important to mention it.
    All that to say, don't **** with genetic, it takes years to change muscle fiber proportion.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    if you don't feel like helping don't say anything

    to the OP:
    Plyometics build up fast twitch muscles, as well as HIIT running. I have found this to work for me. There are plenty of good exercise programs out there.
    example:

    HIIT for sprinting:
    3-5 minutes of a warm up jog.
    10 seconds sprinting
    14 seconds moderate jog
    10 sec sprinting
    14 seconds moderate jog

    repeate process up until 14-20 minutes.

    I do this twice a week and i have gained speed and conditioned my fast twitch muscles, as well as lost fat.
    I don't really like your attitude.

    I was waiting for OP to respond to my 2nd post about why he is concerned about FT muscle fibers and 'how many he has'.

    Even if I do not feel like posting its still better to say when some1 is wrong than to say nothing at all.

    HIIT is mainly used to burn fat and if your looking to 'gain' ft fibers it should not concern OP unless he wants to lose weight, and what you listed is a pretty odd HIIT.

    As for OP decent relative strength is 1.5bw squat, good strength is 2xbw squat. You said you were looking to get your deadlift numbers up? Why deadlift and not mention squat? Chances are you will get more out of increasing your squat and 'focusing' on your squat.

    More important than being worried about fast-twitch fibers is being worried about how fast you generate force+how much total force you put out in your sports movements, yes there is a connection between the two but the latter is more important to you. Basically your main focus should be getting your lifts up using high weight, low reps and accelerating through the lifts. If you have good strength numbers and poor sports performance(vj, acceleration, basic power output) than chances are your body is just taking to much time to output peak force. You should do some RFD exercises, the best being jump squats with 30-50% of your max squat, this will improve your force curve and move it to the left. Also improving rfd but with other and equally important benefits are plyometrics,most importantly they will also help your body learn to absorb and re-output force through the SSC.


    If your lifting correctly, your fast-twitch fibers will increase in size. Thats not all you need to be concerned with.


    If you do not currently have a program, there are very few sports specific programs that are actually good. But westside for skinny bastards is a good one.

    If you train powerlifting style than your really not doing dmg to yourself(if your lifting bb style, stop), but you will need to go through a conversion/power/plyometric phase eventually to see great increases in sports performance.

    You get your squat up and general leg strength up.
    You use RFD exercises to get your force curve to shift to the left.
    You use plyometrics for increase efficiency of the plyometric reflex, general mechanics, and greater force output.


    your vertical jump will go up, your ability to change directions, your ability to stop, will all improve.


    I wrote this up quickly and haven't slept in a while so I will edit it later just had to respond to the other guys post.
    Last edited by sillz100; 03-30-2008 at 09:20 AM.
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  13. #13
    No I'm not on steroids HitTheSprawl's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    If your lifting correctly, your fast-twitch fibers will increase in size. Thats not all you need to be concerned with.
    forgot to mention this. you cannot gain more fast twitch muscles. what ever you have you have. with training you can increase the size of the fiber. you can also increase strength and the actin/myosins in the muscles.
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    Thumbs up

    Originally Posted by import619 View Post
    hey guys how do you know if you have fast twitch fibers in your body. Especially in the legs. Lately ive been working on getting my deadlift numbers up. 255lbsx6 reps at a bodyweight of 164 pretty descent? It seems to be helping me explode in the air.
    Like it was mentioned earlier we all have FT & ST muscle fibres throughout our bodies. The distribution of them are different in all muscle groups within the body. The percentage of FT vs ST is determined by your genetics (MOM & DAD). Most muscles contain both types.

    Motor neurons ,that innervate FT muscle fibres, are larger & supply more fibres than do the motor neurons that control ST fibres. Because the FT fibres are larger they produce more force.(ie: stronger). FT fibres are better suited to anaerobic activity( ie: explosive & strength oriented activities).

    Plyometrics teach our NS to recruit high threshold Motor Units( AKA: FT fibres). Repeated use of Plyos makes your NS more efficient at recruiting FT fibres & thus allows you to utilize those FT fibres more efficiently.

    Hope this helps!
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    In no way is the information given above meant to replace that of a Medical Professional. Always consult your Doctor before beginning any New Diet, Supplement or Workout program.
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    The only way to know for sure, is to have a muscle biopsy performed.

    Tho you may not be able to add fibers, there is some research on fiber conversion and fibers splitting, but nothing conclusive to date that I have seen.......
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    actually it is possible to recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers so you can change your body and creat new fast twitch muscle fibers depending on how you excercise
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    Originally Posted by Gymrat160 View Post
    actually it is possible to recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers so you can change your body and creat new fast twitch muscle fibers depending on how you excercise
    they're still trying to figure out if you can change muscle fibers, but as of now with all the facts, its genetics ftw. physiology 101 stuff.
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    Originally Posted by HitTheSprawl View Post
    they're still trying to figure out if you can change muscle fibers, but as of now with all the facts, its genetics ftw. physiology 101 stuff.
    There is conversion that goes on between the muscle fiber types. But thats not to say that genetics do not play a role.

    And as far as splitting fibers or creating new ones. Your looking to make the fibers bigger not split or create new ones.
    Last edited by sillz100; 04-01-2008 at 01:26 AM.
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    And as far as splitting fibers or creating new ones. Your looking to make the fibers bigger not split or create new ones.
    You reckon?
    There is a debate and no one yet agrees on what improves a muscle better.
    The increase in size of fibers OR the increase in the numbers of fibers.

    AND before anyone says "it's proven that it's like this ----" there is no solid answer yet.


    I would think that more fibers would be better because I see it like this...if you had a few thick ropes together...that would be weaker then hundreds of little ropes together. I see them like cables...cables are hundreds of little metal fibers together and they are really strong.


    IDK...just my opinion.
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    Originally Posted by LUCKY_13 View Post
    You reckon?
    There is a debate and no one yet agrees on what improves a muscle better.
    The increase in size of fibers OR the increase in the numbers of fibers.

    AND before anyone says "it's proven that it's like this ----" there is no solid answer yet.


    I would think that more fibers would be better because I see it like this...if you had a few thick ropes together...that would be weaker then hundreds of little ropes together. I see them like cables...cables are hundreds of little metal fibers together and they are really strong.


    IDK...just my opinion.

    Its the size of the muscle fibers that improves. If the number improves it is incredibly significant.


    It is proven that any significant gains will be the size of the fibers not the number of fibers.
    Last edited by sillz100; 04-01-2008 at 03:11 AM.
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    Originally Posted by LUCKY_13 View Post
    AND before anyone says "it's proven that it's like this ----" there is no solid answer yet.

    I agree Lucky. I hate to see statements posted so blindly without any type of evidence. For example, I would like to see some support for the following statements:



    Originally Posted by gymrat
    actually it is possible to recruiting fast twitch muscle fibers so you can change your body and creat new fast twitch muscle fibers depending on how you excercise

    Originally Posted by sillz100
    There is conversion that goes on between the muscle fiber types. But thats not to say that genetics do not play a role.
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    Originally Posted by Mr.MAXX View Post
    I agree Lucky. I hate to see statements posted so blindly without any type of evidence. For example, I would like to see some support for the following statements:

    I got into this thread because other people needed to be corrected. Saying my statement is 'blind' is drastic and incorrect. I'm not going to post studys to backup everything. Its not like I said something like 'do plyos to test your fast twitch fibers' or 'do HIIT to help increase number of FT fibers' or 'I think muscle hyperplasia is more important than hypertrophy' or 'doing sub maximal plyometrics will build FT fibers'........ and im not sure what gymrat so i dont know how you would want him to back it up, i'd ask him to put it into english first, he did use the word 'create' though so I assume he is far off.........
    Last edited by sillz100; 04-01-2008 at 07:26 AM.
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    I got into this thread because other people needed to be corrected. Saying my statement is 'blind' is drastic and incorrect. I'm not going to post studys to backup everything. Its not like I said something like 'do plyos to test your fast twitch fibers' or 'do HIIT to help increase number of FT fibers' or 'I think muscle hyperplasia is more important than hypertrophy' or 'doing sub maximal plyometrics will build FT fibers'........ and im not sure what gymrat so i dont know how you would want him to back it up, i'd ask him to put it into english first, he did use the word 'create' though so I assume he is far off.........
    I just post what worked for me as an example, If no one likes it then move on and get over it.
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    Sillz, like I said, there are studies that have shown that fiber conversion MAY be possible, and none of those studies have been performed on humans as far as I know. Your statement was:

    There is conversion that goes on between the muscle fiber types.
    So if you have evidence of this, I would love to see it, because I have seen no scientific proof to date......I'm not bashing what you said, just I want to see the data so I can learn as well....
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    Originally Posted by Mr.MAXX View Post
    Sillz, like I said, there are studies that have shown that fiber conversion MAY be possible, and none of those studies have been performed on humans as far as I know. Your statement was:



    So if you have evidence of this, I would love to see it, because I have seen no scientific proof to date......I'm not bashing what you said, just I want to see the data so I can learn as well....
    So your saying that there is no evidence for any type of fiber conversion between I IIa and IIb/x?

    and your saying the general theory is that they will stay exactly the same?
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    So your saying that there is no evidence for any type of fiber conversion between I IIa and IIb/x?

    and your saying the general theory is that they will stay exactly the same?
    No he is saying he would like some evidence. He never said it wasn't true, did you not see the last part of what he said?
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    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    No he is saying he would like some evidence. He never said it wasn't true, did you not see the last part of what he said?
    He implied more than once that it was some out of line statement like it needs 10 studies to back it up to enter normal everyday conversation.
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    What I am saying is:

    1. I have not seen much research to totally support fiber conversion.

    2. What research I have seen is circumstantial at best, meaning there is no concrete proof that conversion occurs.

    3. I have not done in-depth research on the topic, which is why I am interested in further evidence if it is available.

    So, yes Sillz, I think your statement is out of line if you are basically just spouting it off from your head. I'm not saying your wrong. I'm saying the evidence is not clear , and if you have data to support your statement, please share so that we can all learn.

    If I'm not mistaken, there are studies that have proven that type IIb fibers can actually turn into more of a type IIa fiber with both resistance training and aerobic training.

    Here are excerpts from 2 relevant studies:

    The conversion probably proceeds from type IIb to type IIa to type IIx then type I. In fact, evidence now indicates that the fast twitch contractile proteins (type IIa and probably also IIb) are constitutively expressed (expressed by default in the organism) and that it takes some kind of stimulus to express the type I contractile proteins. This is supported by the numerous studies on muscle adaptions to disuse. If muscles are not allowed to contract (eg, by severing the nerve or physically immobilizing the limb) the muscles begin to express the fast contractile proteins. The longer the immobilization, the more fast twitch the muscles become.

    Dr. Giarnella is correct to the extent that it has been difficult to demonstrate a conversion of type I fibers to type II due to exercise training. The current theory proposes that type IIb fibers are converted to type IIa during strength training and type IIb are converted to IIa and type IIa to type I during endurance training programs. Years ago it was assumed that muscle fiber type was fairly stable and genetically determined. This has been disproven in recent years by literally hundreds of studies indicating that muscles posses an incredible degree of plasticity.

    Mike Prevost, Ph.D.
    J Nutr Sci Vitaminol (Tokyo). 2006 Jun;52(3):183-93. Related Articles, Links


    Beef extract supplementation increases leg muscle mass and modifies skeletal muscle fiber types in rats.

    Yoshihara H, Wakamatsu J, Kawabata F, Mori S, Haruno A, Hayashi T, Sekiguchi T, Mizunoya W, Tatsumi R, Ito T, Ikeuchi Y.

    Department of Bioscience and Biotechnology, Graduate School of Agriculture, Kyushu University, Fukuoka 812-8581, Japan.

    The objective of this research was to investigate the effects of beef extract on fat metabolism, muscle mass and muscle fiber types in rats. We also investigated the synergetic effect of endurance exercise. Twenty-four male rats weighing about 270 g were assigned to two diets containing 0 or 6% beef extract (BE). Half the rats fed each diet were subjected to compulsory exercise (CE) for 30 min every other day. After 4 weeks feeding, the blood was collected and various organs were dissected. The muscle fiber type of the soleus and extensor digitorum longus (EDL) muscles were evaluated by histochemical and electrophoretical analyses. Rats supplemented with BE showed a decrease in fat content in liver and abdomen and an increase in the activity of carnitine palmitoyl transferase II in liver. BE as well as exercise increased the relative weights of both soleus and EDL. BE alone and BE plus CE did not affect the distribution of muscle fiber types in soleus. BE without exercise decreased in type IIb of EDL from 54% to 44% with compensatory increase in type IIa from 41% to 49% and type I from 5% to 7% compared with the nonsupplemented, nonexercised control group. No synergetic effect on a fast to slow fiber conversion due to the combination of BE and CE was detected. Thus, BE supplement increased muscle mass and slow type fiber in EDL. The effects of BE supplement on muscle characteristics were similar to those of exercise. beef extract, fat metabolism, muscle fiber type, muscle mass, L-carnitine
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    IIa to IIb conversion and vise-versa isn't something that is usually disputed. To straight out say any sort of fiber conversion is something i disagree with, and the reason i posted my statement.

    And i'm not saying some1 should be concerned with fiber conversion or fibers acting like different types. I started off this thread with saying that he probably shouldn't be so concerned about fast twitch versus slow twitch..... in sports training there is a correct way to train and a result to that training. And that his real question should be 'is increasing my leg strength carrying over to my sports' If he is not getting enough force output fast enough he need to go through a conversion phase to convert his 'powerlifting' style lifting to his sports. With RFD and plyometrics more specifically.
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    Originally Posted by sillz100 View Post
    IIa to IIb conversion and vise-versa isn't something that is usually disputed. To straight out say any sort of fiber conversion is something i disagree with, and the reason i posted my statement.

    And i'm not saying some1 should be concerned with fiber conversion or fibers acting like different types. I started off this thread with saying that he probably shouldn't be so concerned about fast twitch versus slow twitch..... in sports training there is a correct way to train and a result to that training. And that his real question should be 'is increasing my leg strength carrying over to my sports' If he is not getting enough force output fast enough he need to go through a conversion phase to convert his 'powerlifting' style lifting to his sports. With RFD and plyometrics more specifically.
    Originally Posted by ftwrestler View Post
    with plyometrics
    just sayin
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