Well my advice to you is your going to eventually if you want to be good at this, get lower catch positions and pull the bar in a more explosive manner. You should stretch a lot, and you should also drill with a broomstick and practice the positions you need to be in, also I think your squat is a little unconventional, I'd try a more narrow and efficient squatting position, you also need to go lower in your squats. On the clean you were very slow coming out of the whole and you did not drop down low enough, think and feel explosiveness when you lift.
With the start position, time will help a lot. Every time you pull squeeze into the position, crank that arch - over time it will loosen up. I still describe it as yoga with a barbell, a 'proper' start position is pretty damn awkward at first.
When I started I could kind of get a straight back, but nowhere near an arch on either snatches or cleans, and I couldn't get my chest up. I didn't do anything specific, just always pushed myself into the start position as far as I could, until it was a good stretch, and just kept going further and further.
It's still not great, but it has for sure improved. Here's a vid of some light snatches from earlier this week:
This is from Feb '07 AFTER I had improved things a bit
I agree with the other poster that changing the squat stance a bit might help. If you use a little wider stance are you able to push the knees forward more instead of to the side?
With the start position, time will help a lot. Every time you pull squeeze into the position, crank that arch - over time it will loosen up. I still describe it as yoga with a barbell, a 'proper' start position is pretty damn awkward at first.
When I started I could kind of get a straight back, but nowhere near an arch on either snatches or cleans, and I couldn't get my chest up. I didn't do anything specific, just always pushed myself into the start position as far as I could, until it was a good stretch, and just kept going further and further.
It's still not great, but it has for sure improved. Here's a vid of some light snatches from earlier this week:
This is from Feb '07 AFTER I had improved things a bit
I agree with the other poster that changing the squat stance a bit might help. If you you a little wider stance are you able to push the knees forward more instead of to the side?
thanks JLC, I've actually been trying that as per a suggestion of yours from a little while ago, but as I try to get into position all I notice is that my quads get burned and sore real fast; and I'm not sure why, but after that it doesn't feel like I'm doing much.
I've been doing yogic stretching moves for my back (I made another thread on FI describing the stretches I've been doing).
I really didn't expect anybody to rag on my squat form, if anything I feel that's pretty good, yes I can squat narrower but then I lean over more, this squat stance is what's comfortable for my body.
another I do notice with my knees though is that they get in the way alot in the first pull, especially with the clean, a closer grip would be more comfortable for me but I can't cause my knees are in the way, how do I get them to just point straight forward instead of to the side on the 1st pull, any ideas?
'Prior to the Department of Education, there was no illiteracy'
It might just be how your knees track. Your feet are narrow IMO, but your knees point almost right out to the sides when you squat. I just wondered if stepping the feet out a little more might let you drop your hips between your ankles, which might point the knees forward more.
As for clearing the knees.....I had the same problem. To try to correct for it, I used to stand pretty far away from the bar. The first time I went to get some coaching, I was told to stand closer to the bar. The conversation went like this:
Coach: What are you scared of, get up to the bar
Me: Yeah but then I scrape my shins and knees on the way up
Coach: Well get closer to the bar and don't do that
Me: Yeah, but it hits my knees
Coach: Well stop doing that, and get close to the bar.
I think it's just tricky. As I was able to crank into a start position and get my torso more upright, it became easier to pull my knees out of the way during the 1st pull. That was the cue I'd use 'pull the knees back'.
I think it's just tricky. As I was able to crank into a start position and get my torso more upright, it became easier to pull my knees out of the way during the 1st pull. That was the cue I'd use 'pull the knees back'.
I'm experiencing some of this too. A few months ago, my knees used to take a beating whenever I'd do cleans as the bar banged into the kneecaps on the way up. I've been gradually getting a better arch and dropping my hips on my start position, and now my knees seem to be getting out of the way just fine. In fact I think your advice about working on a tightly arched back has been improving my pulls in general.
"Motivation comes from within. You won't get it from others or by seeking the approval of others." - jgreystoke
"If it's your day to train, train. Unless you're coughing up blood, or the jagged end of a broken bone is protruding from a limb, do work." - ironwill2008
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Olympic lift training journal:
http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?p=29743151&posted=1#post29743151
It might just be how your knees track. Your feet are narrow IMO, but your knees point almost right out to the sides when you squat. I just wondered if stepping the feet out a little more might let you drop your hips between your ankles, which might point the knees forward more.
As for clearing the knees.....I had the same problem. To try to correct for it, I used to stand pretty far away from the bar. The first time I went to get some coaching, I was told to stand closer to the bar. The conversation went like this:
Coach: What are you scared of, get up to the bar
Me: Yeah but then I scrape my shins and knees on the way up
Coach: Well get closer to the bar and don't do that
Me: Yeah, but it hits my knees
Coach: Well stop doing that, and get close to the bar.
I think it's just tricky. As I was able to crank into a start position and get my torso more upright, it became easier to pull my knees out of the way during the 1st pull. That was the cue I'd use 'pull the knees back'.
hmmm, I do think that's partly how my knees track but I also force them out slightly (it's how I get low), Mike Wittmer on FI also suggested I drop my hips between my ankles though but I've never been flexible enough to do that;I guess I could try a wider stance.
'Prior to the Department of Education, there was no illiteracy'
I'm experiencing some of this too. A few months ago, my knees used to take a beating whenever I'd do cleans as the bar banged into the kneecaps on the way up. I've been gradually getting a better arch and dropping my hips on my start position, and now my knees seem to be getting out of the way just fine. In fact I think your advice about working on a tightly arched back has been improving my pulls in general.
During warmups for one workout I tweaked my lower back a bit (loading/unloading plates with a round back), and had C&Js on the menu.
Because my back was hurtin', I had to crank in to a tight arch and hold it so that it wouldn't hurt (yeah I probably should have just gone home). But, with my back locked in, the cleans were SO EASY, the bar seemed to pop up a lot faster and there was more 'snap' to the lift overall. So now I always pretend my back hurts when I go to pull
I liked the snatch, it looked pretty snappy and your starting position looked pretty good. I don't like how wide you spread your knees on the squats and catches, I would just widen the feet a tad and keep the feet turned slightly more inward. Everyone has their own technique flair though. Keep working on that technique, the strength and power is definately there. I seem to have the opposite problem, efficient technique, little strength.
I didn't think you looked like a kid. More like a scary Jake Gyllenhaal.
Training Journal - http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=120458841
Best gym lifts:-
Power Snatch............215
Snatch.....................235
Front Squat..............285
Behind neck jerk.......315
Olympic Back Squat...325
Clean
More hips, more shrug, KEEP THE ASS DOWN, leasd with the shoulders, SLAM AND STABILISE.
Jerk...
Dude, that was some soft toed ballarina ****.
You are jumping off the toes. Make the clean, point your feet forward and parallel, DRIVE THROUGH THE HEEL, STAY ON THE HEEL AS YOU LEAVE THE FLOOR, and drive harder with the arms, you seem eager to drop and catch, PUSH THE ****.
Clean
More hips, more shrug, KEEP THE ASS DOWN, leasd with the shoulders, SLAM AND STABILISE.
Jerk...
Dude, that was some soft toed ballarina ****.
You are jumping off the toes. Make the clean, point your feet forward and parallel, DRIVE THROUGH THE HEEL, STAY ON THE HEEL AS YOU LEAVE THE FLOOR, and drive harder with the arms, you seem eager to drop and catch, PUSH THE ****.
aye sir!
haha, thing is with the jerks this platform is slippery and it's a little hard to stay on teh heel but I am trying to drive harder with the arms, for some reason my jerks look way better at my coaches place (hard plywood).
I'm using a new clean style where I do my 1st pull with bent arms then straighten them as I go into the 2nd pull, so they're still only hooks but bent hooks, I can get my ass down, arch hard, and actually use my legs.
I've been working on flexibility too, I was real tight that day, I'll get a vid of some oly lifts this saturday at my coaches place.
'Prior to the Department of Education, there was no illiteracy'
haha, thing is with the jerks this platform is slippery and it's a little hard to stay on teh heel but I am trying to drive harder with the arms, for some reason my jerks look way better at my coaches place (hard plywood).
I know what you mean, doing jerks with just 155lbs my rear foot slid backward when I caught the jerk. If anything, it teaches you to recover quickly from the split
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