Critique me?

[runner05]

I think I'm finally getting the hang of all this nutrition and working out; and adding it to my running, but I'd love anyone to critique the way I'm doing this. I want to do this right and not have to say I should've/could've/would've; and end up starting over, wishing I had done something different.

Goals are many...
I want to lose at least 15-20# of bodyfat - maybe it should be more? I'm thinking I should be losing 1# each week. Is this correct? I don't want to lose muscle, just fat.
I'm doing a half marathon in May, so I'm running a lot, but want to desperately increase core strength
Of course, I want to ultimately look MUCH better! Therefore, I need to increase lean muscle and cut the fat.

Stats...
Female
42 y.o.
5'4"
151 pounds (actually down a pound from a week ago)
30.49% bodyfat (calculated via website w/ following tape measurements)
Neck - 13"
Waist - 29.5"
Hips - 39.5"
Sorry, I don't have pics right now.

Nutrition...
Calories between 1900 and 2000 each day (burning 2500+)
40% protein/40% carbs/20% fats w/ more complex carbs in early day
Includes 1-2 whey protein shakes each day

Exercise...
Running 4 miles at 6mph 5 days a week with a long run increasing .5 mile each week on Sunday (currently at 7.5 this Sunday)
Gym 2-3x/week working lowers and some abs then working uppers and some abs
Also do ab/back strengthening ex?s at home 3-4x/week

Did I forget anything? Please give me your opinion on what I should keep and what I should change. Thanks!!!

[dsharp9000]

I think I'm finally getting the hang of all this nutrition and working out; and adding it to my running, but I'd love anyone to critique the way I'm doing this. I want to do this right and not have to say I should've/could've/would've; and end up starting over, wishing I had done something different.

Goals are many...
I want to lose at least 15-20# of bodyfat - maybe it should be more? I'm thinking I should be losing 1# each week. Is this correct? I don't want to lose muscle, just fat.
I'm doing a half marathon in May, so I'm running a lot, but want to desperately increase core strength
Of course, I want to ultimately look MUCH better! Therefore, I need to increase lean muscle and cut the fat.

Stats...
Female
42 y.o.
5'4"
151 pounds (actually down a pound from a week ago)
30.49% bodyfat (calculated via website w/ following tape measurements)
Neck - 13"
Waist - 29.5"
Hips - 39.5"
Sorry, I don't have pics right now.

Nutrition...
Calories between 1900 and 2000 each day (burning 2500+)
40% protein/40% carbs/20% fats w/ more complex carbs in early day
Includes 1-2 whey protein shakes each day

Exercise...
Running 4 miles at 6mph 5 days a week with a long run increasing .5 mile each week on Sunday (currently at 7.5 this Sunday)
Gym 2-3x/week working lowers and some abs then working uppers and some abs
Also do ab/back strengthening ex?s at home 3-4x/week

Did I forget anything? Please give me your opinion on what I should keep and what I should change. Thanks!!!

i think it looks good though think your calorie intake might be little low for amount of running you do; but you could also be ok as i dont know your weight. . Unsure of your gym routine, so cant comment on that aspect.

Main thing is a question; do you like what your doing... because if you do then its a good a program as it was one you will follow.

[raffim]

Your diet and routine is for loosing weight. you will have a very difficult time gaining any muscle mass (assuming that's what you want) with this routine.

As far as gym activity, you mentioned you want to gain strength, I still think it would be difficult to do with the excessive (excessive for BBing, that is) of cardio you do, but when you lift, stick to the lower rep ranges for strength (meaning up to 6 reps per set.)

But overall, I think you are on the right track.

I'm also thinking this forum may not be ideal for you considering the type of athlete you are. You will mainly get feedback from those that have a BBer type mindset. Not that I'm trying to get you to leave, but you may want to look into other sites geared more for runners such as yourself.



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[tropszzz]

You are doing more then 98% of people your age....that is a feat in itself. Just keep being persistent and don't quit. That is the downfall of most, is they quit before they hit the gold. Congrats and Best of luck on your journey!!!!

[lukamar]

I read this a while ago but had to think how i was going to answer. I think Raffi got the bulk of the way i was thinking. I'll try and add a bit for you as well.

Aiming at 1 to 1.5 pounds a week is a good goal that's doable with diet and exercise. You may want to try and cut a few more calories a day as we all get the exact numbers wrong a bit. It's normally that we feel we burn more or eat less than we actually do. I would try for a differential of 750, which is 1.5# a week and then you will probably be closer or just over a pound.

Aggressive running is not actually good at burning fat. You may want to make sure your heart rate is lower (below 115) to take advantage of burning fat for energy once your body energy stores lower otherwise you may catabolize your muscle to fill the energy void maintaining the fat % more or less stable.

Also a runners diet is high in Carbs and low in Protein and a mass building one is High in protein and low in Carbs. If you are using a product like hammer Gel when you are running you have to take that into your daily food allowance. one pack is 91 calories, mostly fructose and carbs, and they recommend 3 an hour. You may find it easier to go one way or the other rather than trying to do it together. I'd recommend getting the weight off and then adding the muscle and strength while watching your body fat%.

[runner05]

dsharp9000 -
My weight is 151 and my height is 5'4". I feel like I'm eating all the time, as I'm trying to eat something every 2-3 hours and keep w/in my 1900-2000 calories. I don't think I've ever eaten this much in my life, but of course I wasn't eating as well either. I do like this program that I'm working for a few reasons...
I do love to eat and am a very fussy eater, so eating plain and often works well... and I love my ice cream. I do still have ice cream on Sat's only 'cuz I used to eat it literally every day and I'm afraid of going through withdrawals without it altogether.
I absolutely love to run. It's a great mental release for me. And, I've also found that I love the feeling I get from working out and the feeling afterward.

raffim -
I will stick w/ the lower reps... Kind of makes sense, I guess... Do I do more reps then? Heavier weight?
I appreciate your directing me to a "runner" site. However, I have never found any runner site - and I've been on several - that gives nutrition advice, and real "fat loss only" type advice. I have learned more here in the last month than I have learned in 3 years visiting only runner sites. So... thanks to you all!!!

tropszzz -
98% huh? Well... Others can do what they want, and they will. I do this for me! What they do is for them. Sometimes you can't keep someone from cutting their own throat (so to speak)...

Thanks to you all! I really appreciate your input. Hopefully, I'll be looking better and feeling better in my runs and beyond by mid to end of summer. I'm not in any hurry, but want to keep getting better at this as my life goes on. You guys are awesome!

[PeteB]

I would pick a number of weeks or months and a target weight. Then, aim for losing 1-1.5 lb per week, but only during the first 8-10 weeks, and then lower the weight loss down to 1/2-1lb per week.

This allows a person to take advantage of the strength gains most people can get in the first few weeks or months of resistance training even though no new muscle is being built. (the gains come from increased muscle-fiber utilization, improved nerve-muscle connection etc.)

Losing 1.5 lbs of fat per week can be difficult over a long period of time for anyone, and especially if it is 1% of one's total bodyweight. To put it in perspective, that would be about the same as a guy wieghing 200-250 losing between 2 and 2.5 lb per week. It can be done, but it does not take long before the body starts to canibalize muscle along with the fat.

At the same time, the "newbie gains" in the gym level off sooner or later, and most people have to start adding a little more food to build new muscle, which is usually the next goal.

[runner05]

I would pick a number of weeks or months and a target weight. Then, aim for losing 1-1.5 lb per week, but only during the first 8-10 weeks, and then lower the weight loss down to 1/2-1lb per week.

OK... So, w/ what I'm doing, should my goal look more like 1-1.5 lb per week for 8-10 weeks, and then to .5-1 lb after, rather than my 1lb/week current goal. Or, is there something different I should be doing to meet your goals above, which might be better goals for me?

[PeteB]

OK... So, w/ what I'm doing, should my goal look more like 1-1.5 lb per week for 8-10 weeks, and then to .5-1 lb after, rather than my 1lb/week current goal. Or, is there something different I should be doing to meet your goals above, which might be better goals for me?

I can't really comment on the running too well, unfortunately I pounded my knees into near extinction years ago...

To our body, fat is energy storage, it does not care one bit if we are happy with what we see in the mirror. Like money in the bank, savings for a rainy day... when the storage level keeps going down for a length of time, the body will try to spare the rest.

Most people are able to lose more weight in the first couple months and with less effort than in the next two. You may as well take advantage of that, and go for as much weight loss as you can get, because no matter how much or how little you lose in that time, eventually the body will try to stop the fat loss and put the brakes on, and it is a good idea to plan around that, and avoid disappointment when the scale stops moving for a while. Bodybuilders learned to take advantage of that a long time ago by experimentation, that's one thing that gave us the bulk and cut cycles.

When the weight loss levels off, you up the calories a little, back off on the cardio a little, and hit the weights harder. You metabolism is happy that the "starvation" period is over, and the increased resistance training leads to most of the extra food to be converted to muscle. After a while that levels off, and its time to cut again.

The cycles resemble what the human body was conditioned to do for generations, due to natural cycles of the seasons and so on. We just nudge it in the direction we want to go, that's all.

(I think I read a more scientific explanation someplace in the articles section, but bodybuilders figured it out by experimentation a long time ago.)

[runner05]

Thanks PeteB!
That sounds perfect... My half marathon is in 8 weeks. At that time, I should be ready to cut back on the running (cardio) big time anyway and can take a fat loss break, focusing more in the gym for awhile before I go back to more fat loss and running more in mid summer... hopefully losing more bodyfat at that time.
Being new to this, I had no idea about the "cycle" thing... But it makes perfect sense and just that knowledge will help deplete the disappointment when I start to "plateau". Now, I will go forward a smarter woman! Thanks again!

[speedblade]

Being a cardio junkie amoug other things I hope this will help. Don't worry to much about losing some lean muscle mass, you won't lose much as long as you are eating regularly.

You do need to add some LSD (long slow distance) runs to your workout. You will lose more body fat on an LSD runs than 6 minute mile runs. It will also increase your endurance for the half marathon. Make sure you eat your carbs prior to your run, burning body fat reguires energy and the body will burn protein if you lack carbs for energy. I would suggest working your LSD run once a week and aim for the half marathon distance. Always a good idea to carry an energy bar and lots of water.

Although low rep weight training is great for strength training, if distance running is your goal you may not want this as it will increase leg size. Which is good for short fast runs like 10k's. Having said that you may still want to strenght train and then cut the muscles down, depending where your leg strength at the current time. Hope this helps, stay strong and work hard.

[runner05]

Being a cardio junkie amoug other things I hope this will help. Don't worry to much about losing some lean muscle mass, you won't lose much as long as you are eating regularly.

You do need to add some LSD (long slow distance) runs to your workout. You will lose more body fat on an LSD runs than 6 minute mile runs. It will also increase your endurance for the half marathon. Make sure you eat your carbs prior to your run, burning body fat reguires energy and the body will burn protein if you lack carbs for energy. I would suggest working your LSD run once a week and aim for the half marathon distance. Always a good idea to carry an energy bar and lots of water.

Although low rep weight training is great for strength training, if distance running is your goal you may not want this as it will increase leg size. Which is good for short fast runs like 10k's. Having said that you may still want to strenght train and then cut the muscles down, depending where your leg strength at the current time. Hope this helps, stay strong and work hard.

Actually, my longer run is always my Sunday run, and I'm currently at 7.5 miles, but am increasing that by .5 mile or more every week to get to the almighty 13. I do try to make this a slower run (simply for endurance sake), but sometimes I just get lost in the moment (and my music) and I'm right back up to my more comfortable 6mph... However, I did not know that running the longer distances at a slower rate was better for burning fat. As far as strengthening, I must say that I'm not working too hard on my legs in the gym, but am mostly concerned w/ upper body (core) and arms. I truly don't want to look like a gaunt runner (as many of them do), but I have been "blessed" (ha) w/ larger thigh and calf muscles to begin and there's truthfully not too much fat on them now (I can see muscle definition when flexing them), so hopefully I just don't lose the muscle mass that's there and they maintain. Thanks!!!!!!!

[lukamar]

However, I did not know that running the longer distances at a slower rate was better for burning fat.

speedblade basically stated what I did but you may not have understood what I was saying, his post was much clearer. I'll try and add a bit. I know where speedblade was going and I agree with him but long and slow is not totally accurate. I worked out your heart rate max, 115, for burning fat. It's a formula and I just did the math for you. ( 220 - your age *.6 or .65 = 115 ) Depending on your fitness level the rate you run to maintain that 115 heart rate may not actually be all that slow. The fitter you are the faster you will run with the same heart rate. You want to maintain the heart rate rather than the MPH rate for fat burning. Hope that made more sense to you than my original post.

[runner05]

speedblade basically stated what I did but you may not have understood what I was saying, his post was much clearer. I'll try and add a bit. I know where speedblade was going and I agree with him but long and slow is not totally accurate. I worked out your heart rate max, 115, for burning fat. It's a formula and I just did the math for you. ( 220 - your age *.6 or .65 = 115 ) Depending on your fitness level the rate you run to maintain that 115 heart rate may not actually be all that slow. The fitter you are the faster you will run with the same heart rate. You want to maintain the heart rate rather than the MPH rate for fat burning. Hope that made more sense to you than my original post.

It does make sense. More and more sense as I become more educated on this whole thing. Anyway... I do think I'll try to maybe cut my calories to 1800-1900 rather than 1900-2000. Sometimes I feel like I'm really pushing it to get up there anyway. I am down another pound today at 150, so I must be doing something right. I am keeping my diet at 40/40/20, with my only supplement being whey protein. I don't want to lose anymore muscle mass than possible 'cuz I really don't want to look like a "runner" but would rather look like a much healthier "athlete" or something like that. I realize that people are either one or the other (runner or BB) and I still think I want to be somewhere in the middle... Isn't that just like a girl to want it all and then some?! Thanks again for all your help. I'd love to hear any more suggestions you might have!

[lukamar]

I don't want to lose anymore muscle mass than possible 'cuz I really don't want to look like a "runner" but would rather look like a much healthier "athlete" or something like that.

You will always lose some muscle when you lose fat the average is around 20% of the weight loss, if you are lucky you just put it back on in the gym in short order.

I tell all my clients this but most don't believe it until it happens to them. By losing the fat layer you will look more muscular even if you are not muscularly bulked. That may be the look you want more like a fitness model rather than the muscular woman or the thin runner, somewhere in between those two.

[runner05]

You will always lose some muscle when you lose fat the average is around 20% of the weight loss, if you are lucky you just put it back on in the gym in short order.

I tell all my clients this but most don't believe it until it happens to them. By losing the fat layer you will look more muscular even if you are not muscularly bulked. That may be the look you want more like a fitness model rather than the muscular woman or the thin runner, somewhere in between those two.

I believe you. Nobody here has steered me wrong yet. Although, I did totally freak when I started to gain weight after eating more, but... I continued to eat and am now going down, slowly but definitely surely! And, fitness "model"? Yeah, I think I like how you think! Actually, "fit" is what I really want and to be able to wear a bikini comfortably in public, although I know a lot of that is a mental thing. Admittedly, I like being able to turn a few heads now and again. Maybe this summer, I'll turn a few more!

[raffim]

Why are you taking in so much protein when you do so much cardiovascular exercise? It defeats the purpose. I know you want the "middle ground" look but I'm not convinced you will be able to get it considering the two conflicting goals you have.

To shape your body you need to lift weights to break down the muscle fibers and then you need to feed the muscles the protein they need to grow. But in your case, before the muscles can take in the extra protein, you burn it off with your heavy cardiovascular activities. So now, to get the look you want, you will have to cut down on the running, but unfortunately you will then not be able to achieve the marathon related goals you have.

IMO you will have to pick between achieving a more athletic look and being a long distance runner. If you simply want the look, then go to the gym and lift as heavy as you can staying within about the 8-10 rep range on most of your lifts and control your growth with the amount of protein you eat. You should still do cardiovascular activities but no more than about 30 minutes a day, 4-5 days a week.

If you want to run and be stronger (being strong does not necessarily mean you will "look strong") then go at it with the cardio and lift in the 1-6 rep range, again as heavy as you can.



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[runner05]

Why are you taking in so much protein when you do so much cardiovascular exercise? It defeats the purpose. I know you want the "middle ground" look but I'm not convinced you will be able to get it considering the two conflicting goals you have.

To shape your body you need to lift weights to break down the muscle fibers and then you need to feed the muscles the protein they need to grow. But in your case, before the muscles can take in the extra protein, you burn it off with your heavy cardiovascular activities. So now, to get the look you want, you will have to cut down on the running, but unfortunately you will then not be able to achieve the marathon related goals you have.

IMO you will have to pick between achieving a more athletic look and being a long distance runner. If you simply want the look, then go to the gym and lift as heavy as you can staying within about the 8-10 rep range on most of your lifts and control your growth with the amount of protein you eat. You should still do cardiovascular activities but no more than about 30 minutes a day, 4-5 days a week.

If you want to run and be stronger (being strong does not necessarily mean you will "look strong") then go at it with the cardio and lift in the 1-6 rep range, again as heavy as you can.



.

Why not protein? My thought on this, or what I've been told, is that it will help maintain muscle mass and help with my weight loss goals - to remain eating the 40/40/20. What nutrition goals would you suggest? Any different/other supplement?

And... I do love to run but have never run a half marathon. I usually like the 5k's and an occasional 10k, so I can't say that I've always been a major distance runner or that I ever will be. Once I do this half... I may want to do a full someday, but just basically so I can say I did it. It certainly isn't my goal to continue this long distance running. I'm more than happy w/ my 5k's and my 3 mile runs, 5x/wk, which is more my norm. I just do not like the scrawny people I see in many of these races, and do not want to get there.

I do like knowing about the cycle thing though and after May 17, I will cut back on running A LOT and focus more in the gym for a couple of months. Maybe going back and forth? I have ran into a few people here that are doing both and seem to be happy, so... maybe I'll just keep trying to take off the fat for now and see what happens in a couple of months?

Please let me know if you think there are ways I can improve my diet. For now, according to an earlier post, I think I'm just going to cut back to 1800-1900 calories and see if I can expedite the fat loss for a couple of months, and then go for increasing muscle after that... Does that sound like something feasible? I don't know that I feel I HAVE to have a specific body type... just more fit and healthy. Thanks!

[IronCamp]

You have already received some good advice...but I wanted to add a bit.

I am not training for a half marathon, but I do a considerable amount of running for cardio (@ least 10 miles a week) and am able to maintain my muscle mass. In fact I went from 28% BF to 21.5% BF without losing any body weight. I was able to decrease my BF and gain muscle all while using running as my cardio exercise.

I think your calorie intake looks fine. I currently eat between 1650-1850 for fat loss. I also keep my protein higher and my carbs lower and still have enough energy for my runs.

During my runs (which are at a very slow pace...probably 10-12 min miles), my HR is around 150-155 bpm, so I really don't see how it's possible to keep your HR around 115 @ a 10 min mile pace. You may want to purchase a HR monitor to track it. That being said, I don't think it's necessary to keep your HR in the "fat burning zone" to lose BF. As long as you are burning more calories than you are taking in, you should be OK.

Hope that helps.

[runner05]

It all helps. I really appreciate that you also do the running and can lower the bodyfat w/o necessarily the weight, which apparently means you are gaining muscle mass... You are my hero! There may be hope for me yet! I try to keep my shorter (4mile) runs at that 6mph or 10min/mile, but, as I said, sometimes my mind wanders and I end up going faster. I really do try much harder on my long run days to keep the pace much slower, so hopefully that will help. And, although I'm truly in the beginning stages, I do feel I've seen a difference.

Body fat seems to range with each different method I use to calculate it, but I'm going w/ the highest one now, which is 30.49% and I really want to be much closer to that 20-22% mark (using the same calculation of course) by the end of summer. Hopefully that's an obtainable and realistic goal...

Thanks for your "bit", mcampana!

[raffim]

Why not protein? My thought on this, or what I've been told, is that it will help maintain muscle mass and help with my weight loss goals - to remain eating the 40/40/20. What nutrition goals would you suggest? Any different/other supplement?

And... I do love to run but have never run a half marathon. I usually like the 5k's and an occasional 10k, so I can't say that I've always been a major distance runner or that I ever will be. Once I do this half... I may want to do a full someday, but just basically so I can say I did it. It certainly isn't my goal to continue this long distance running. I'm more than happy w/ my 5k's and my 3 mile runs, 5x/wk, which is more my norm. I just do not like the scrawny people I see in many of these races, and do not want to get there.

I do like knowing about the cycle thing though and after May 17, I will cut back on running A LOT and focus more in the gym for a couple of months. Maybe going back and forth? I have ran into a few people here that are doing both and seem to be happy, so... maybe I'll just keep trying to take off the fat for now and see what happens in a couple of months?

Please let me know if you think there are ways I can improve my diet. For now, according to an earlier post, I think I'm just going to cut back to 1800-1900 calories and see if I can expedite the fat loss for a couple of months, and then go for increasing muscle after that... Does that sound like something feasible? I don't know that I feel I HAVE to have a specific body type... just more fit and healthy. Thanks!

Your goals are fine if you are happy with them. My point is simply that it will be very hard (IMO, not possible) to gain any reasonable amount of muscle mass while you do so much cardio. There is nothing wrong with taking in the protein you are taking, and 40/40/20 seems like a good diet overall. I'm not sure if runners should take in more carbs. or what, but again, all in all your diet looks good. My only point with protein was that if you are taking protein supplements, to me, that means you are focusing on getting the right amount of protein in and lots of it, but with all the running you do, it will not help you increase muscle mass.... I don't think it will hurt and I'm not saying you need or should take less protein. To me, it just seems that your expectation is that you will gain muscle mass, and I'm trying to make the point that even with your current caloric intake and even if you bust your ass in the gym and lift as heavy as possible, etc. you will negate much of your BBing efforts with the amount of cardio you do.

But yeah, if you want to switch things around and focus on cardio (marathons) for now and then focus on mass, and then go back to leaning out to do marathons again, etc., that's awesome.... nothing wrong with a healthy lifestyle and nothing wrong with getting yourself in the habit of eating clean, etc. I'm kinda jealous since I am so obsessed with building mass (and not doing too great of a job at it ) that I can't seem to change things around to focus on other goals like yours..... Oh, by the way... did I mention how much I HATE cardio... that might have something to do with it too.

Good luck... you seem to be doing great so far. One ingredient for accomplishing whatever goals you have is consistency. You keep at this and you will be able to accomplish anything you want.

Lastly, post an avi/pic, will ya?! If I can suck it up and do it, no reason for anyone else not to.


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[lukamar]

I'm not sure if runners should take in more carbs. or what, but again, all in all your diet looks good.

Long distance runners traditionally load carbs and their diet can be as much as 75% Carbs while limiting fats and proteins. This would be hard to live with unless you were an elite athlete with a comprehensive training regime.

Hammer Nutrition has a great DVD out called Endurance nutrition which explains diet from an endurance athlete's point of view. Unfortunately it is not for sale. I had it sent to me by a friend that has a supplement store and thought i would be interested. It's very good and you could approach the company and ask for a copy.

Another thing that endurance athletes have to concentrate on is the replenishment of vitamins and minerals that leach when they exercise over long periods of time.

[runner05]

raffim...
I don't think I'm aiming for any major muscle mass right now, but I would like to know they're there! I really do think I'm going to try to do the back and forth thing w/ running and working on muscle. My half mar will be done in mid May, as well be my "cycle" for fat loss, and so I'm going to set a goal to then just switch to uping my calorie intake, lowering my cardio to 15m/wk, and working out more on muscles. I really like that idea. Then, by the end of July, I can start working again on the fat loss and maybe even do the 2nd half marathon that I wanted to someday do! (There are certain ones that are known to be "fun" and I'm all about fun!)

Oddly enough, I thought I HATED cardio also, or any type of ex really... but, running is very addictive, as I'm almost afraid I'll find the gym to be. I think the consistency thing works for me 'cuz I have a very addictive personality. Fortunately, so far, it's been limited to ice cream, running, and... well, other things. And, don't worry at all... I think you look really GR8!

Thanks for the encouragement and support 'cuz I can use all I can get! And, btw... I'll "suck it up" and try to get a pic on this weekend, so stay tuned!

[runner05]

lukamar -
I did fail to tell you that I am also taking a multi-vitamin now to help curb that problem. But, thanks; just more excellent advice!

Now... I'm going to do some surfing on Hammer Nutrition...