PWO: Shake, or food?

[BrendanK]

Is one better than the other? Personally, I have a pre-workout protein shake with oats, and then I eat after my training is done. Personally, I hate the idea of having back to back protein shakes with no food in between. So, assuming I actually eat protein; along with carbs, etc. within say 10-15 minutes of being done with my training; is that still okay? Or is it more of an absorption thing with the protein powder being delivered via water, etc. ?

[soundcheck129]

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showth...hp?t=106586281

[BrendanK]

Thanks for the link.


Still seems like people are a bit divided on the subject, but there seems to be more support in the liquid camp. Guess I'll bite the bullet and start drinking something post-workout.

[bseidl]

There's so many different claims out there. I just mix it up and sometimes have protein shakes after a workout and sometimes I'll have whole food. That way it gives your body a variety of good things.

[soulstealer]

Shake Immediately PWO with some simple carbs Dextrose + whey if I'm bulking Fruit + whey if I'm dieting... followed 30 minutes later by a meal...

[theoryTim]

Shake Immediately PWO with some simple carbs Dextrose + whey if I'm bulking Fruit + whey if I'm dieting... followed 30 minutes later by a meal...

Fruit is going to restore liver glyocen which defeats the main purpose of PWO. Which obviously is to restore MUSCLE glyocen. Some fruits are better though for PWO like grapes, bananas, and pineapple but cause fruit has frutose, most instances it will restore in the liver and take longer to breakdown. So for PWO, bad idea.

[jbny525]

Fruit is going to restore liver glyocen which defeats the main purpose of PWO. Which obviously is to restore MUSCLE glyocen. Some fruits are better though for PWO like grapes, bananas, and pineapple but cause fruit has frutose, most instances it will restore in the liver and take longer to breakdown. So for PWO, bad idea.

bananas are great PWO i have one with every shake

[theoryTim]

bananas are great PWO i have one with every shake

Yep, just not all fruit are good ideas PWO. Bananas can make the world's difference when it comes to making bad tasting shakes good tasting heheehe.

[jbny525]

Yep, just not all fruit are good ideas PWO. Bananas can make the world's difference when it comes to making bad tasting shakes good tasting heheehe.

yes bananas are awesome... if it wasnt a PWO shake i would add PB to it and that taste heavenly

[soulstealer]

Fruit is going to restore liver glyocen which defeats the main purpose of PWO. Which obviously is to restore MUSCLE glyocen. Some fruits are better though for PWO like grapes, bananas, and pineapple but cause fruit has frutose, most instances it will restore in the liver and take longer to breakdown. So for PWO, bad idea.

Your funny but it just so happens fructose is excellent PWO when dieting takes long to break down replaces liver glycogen and bleed over replaces muscle along with the brown rice in my PPWO meal..... I use banana or apple your liver only stores 15g of glucose If I remember correctly any spill over goes to muscle replenishment...

[theoryTim]

No it's not funny, when you want to restore muscle gylocen then most fruits restore LIVER glyocen, it defeats the purpose of proper PWO nutrition.

Read the sticky's before you get ignorant.

And edit:

Muscles cannot use fructose. The liver must convert it to glucose which takes time. So again for something PWO, you're wrong buddy.

Still think it's funny?

[soulstealer]

No it's not funny, when you want to restore muscle gylocen then most fruits restore LIVER glyocen, it defeats the purpose of proper PWO nutrition.

Read the sticky's before you get ignorant.

And edit:

Muscles cannot use fructose. The liver must convert it to glucose which takes time. So again for something PWO, you're wrong buddy.

Still think it's funny?

The main sugars in fruits are sucrose, fructose and glucose.
Sucrose = white / brown table sugar = glucose + fructose.
Starch = glucose + glucose + glucose etc.

Fructose generally goes a different pathway than glucose, being converted in directly available energy.
If blood-fructose levels rise, fructose is (mainly by the liver) converted into glucose: Fructose > fructose-1-phosphate > glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate >(by the enzyme aldolase) fructose-1,6-bisphosphate > fructose-6-phosphate > glucose.
(That is why in hereditary fructose intolerance, a lack of aldolase B inhibits the conversion of fructose into glucose, which can result in too low blood glucose levels.)

Some fruits are higher in fructose, others are higher in glucose:

ratio glucose / fructose (in g/100g)

apples 2,0 / 5,7
pears 1,7 / 6,7
mango 0,9 / 2,6
watermelon 2,0 / 3,9
guava 2,1 / 3,4
peach 1,0 / 1,2
pineapple 2,1 / 2,4
raspberries 1,8 / 2,0
orange 2,3 / 2,6
kiwi 4,3 / 4,6
grapes 7,2 / 7,4
strawberries 2,2 / 2,3

dried dates 25 / 25
raisin (sultana) 31 / 31
sapodilla 6 / 6

dried figs 26 / 24
banana 3,6 / 3,4
muskmelon 1,6 / 1,3
sweet cherries 6,9 / 6,1
grapefruit 2,4 / 2,1
mirabelle 5,1 / 4,3
mandarin 1,7 / 1,3
granadilla (passion-fruit) 3,6 / 2,8
dried plums 16 / 9
litchi (lychee) 5 / 3,2
apricot 1,7 / 0,9
sapote 3,4 / 1,4
papaya (paw paw) 1,0 / 0,3
prickly pear (opuntie) 4,9 / 0,1

If you consume lots of fruits, the sugars they supply you with, will averagely consist of about 50% fructose.

Total fructose (incl. from sucrose) contents relative to total carbs

62% Guava
62% Pear
61% Apple
61% Watermelon
57% Mango
52% Orange
52% Kiwi
51% Strawberry
51% Pineapple
50% Grapes
49% Muskmelon
49% dried dates
48% dried figs
48% Mandarin
47% Cherry
46% Peach
43% Banana
40% Apricot
36% Plum

Whos ignorant?

Although it is a fact fructose will replenish liver glycogen FIRST it will be converted into usable sugar if need be... as fruit is not 100% fructose... we get the best of both worlds...

[theoryTim]

LOL nice google copy and paste since you don't contain the knowledge first hand. I never not once stated that all fruit PWO is bad, just you need to keep an eye on which ones you consume right after workout cause your looking to absorb it as fast as possible.

So yeah, your still the ignorant one haha. Anyway, the OP has more than enough information to answer his question. Any solid food will take longer to breakdown and disgest than a liquid.

[soulstealer]

LOL nice google copy and paste since you don't contain the knowledge first hand. I never not once stated that all fruit PWO is bad, just you need to keep an eye on which ones you consume right after workout cause your looking to absorb it as fast as possible.

So yeah, your still the ignorant one haha. Anyway, the OP has more than enough information to answer his question. Any solid food will take longer to breakdown and disgest than a liquid.

Whatever bro... I know how the body worked I just wanted to prove you wrong in detail no matter how you try and spin this your information was still incorrect.

No it's not funny, when you want to restore muscle gylocen then most fruits restore LIVER glyocen, it defeats the purpose of proper PWO nutrition.

Any theres where you contradicted yourself...

[theoryTim]

Whatever bro... I know how the body worked I just wanted to prove you wrong in detail no matter how you try and spin this your information was still incorrect.

You still think your right when even you just said frutose needs to be converted in the liver which takes TIME. TIME that you don't want to be there cause after workout, you want this stuff to be absorbed right away. Then you said frutose is excellent PWO, no it's not. You again are wrong.

If your talking about a meal a hour or so from working out, then your points strands strong. If your refering to the immediate time right after workout, then your wrong my friend. Like i said, fruits like grapes and pineapple (which if you refer to your lil google copy n paste chart) you'd see the glucose to frutose ratio is higher for glucose content which if you refer to my original post, this would be okay if you wish to consume a fruit PWO. Otherwise fruits which are higher in frutose isn't the best thing for immediate PWO.

If you still think i'm wrong, maybe you need to hit up google some more and read and study son. Otherwise, read the sticky's here. alan argon's sticky seems to be something you need to read.

edit, fixed spelling errors, and you also need to get out of the nutrition section if you don't know WTF your talking about. Giving bad advice will get you neg repped.

[soulstealer]

Shake Immediately PWO with some simple carbs Dextrose + whey if I'm bulking Fruit + whey if I'm dieting... followed 30 minutes later by a meal...

My origonal post obviously you missed it....

[soulstealer]

Shake Immediately PWO with some simple carbs Dextrose + whey if I'm bulking Fruit + whey if I'm dieting... followed 30 minutes later by a meal...

My original post obviously you missed it....

[theoryTim]

No your logic in that post says if your bulking you include fruit in your shake. Then 30 minutes later you include a meal.

Maybe your grammar is crap and i'm not understanding you.

[soulstealer]

No your logic in that post says if your bulking you include fruit in your shake. Then 30 minutes later you include a meal.

Maybe your grammar is crap and i'm not understanding you.

You really cant understand that? Do you have a learning disability?

Maybe this chart will Help

Bulking = Dextrose + whey followed exactly 30 minutes later with a meal consisting of brown rice and Tuna fish

Dieting = Fruit + Whey Followed exactly 30 minutes later with a meal consisting of brown rice and tuna fish

[theoryTim]

You really cant understand that? Do you have a learning disability?

have you taken anytype of english class? Do you know what commas, peroids, and basic sentence structure is? I am DONE with you, you are a joke and have no idea wtf your talking about. Go google up boy

Edit, you're STILL WRONG. Even if you wish to lose weight, gain weight, you still want the protein to be absorbed immediately after working out. This is one of the few times during the day your body needs to be replenished and can use the nutrients right away. So slowing it down with the frutose still is wrong no matter what your goals are. If you want to do that, go ahead. Your robbing your body of protein in some manner/fashion though depending on the fruit your taking with your shake.

[soulstealer]

I'll just copy and paste this tid bit of information as it seems to back up what I'm saying

scenario two: ASAP postworkout - a solid-food meal consisting of:
---- 30-60g protein (0.25g/lb target BW) in the form of lean flesh, all types are fine, 5-8oz suffices.
---- 60-120g starchy carbs (0.5g/lb target BW), good examples are white or brown rice, and all types of potatoes & breads. my bias and preference here is to include a serving of higher-glucose fresh fruit, such as grapes, banana, or pineapple - for micronutrient/antioxidant purposes (we should all know by now that the fructose contribution of fruit, at about 7g on average per serving, is insignificant). another wrinkle to add here is that berries as a group have more antioxidant potential than other fruits. this confers benefit despite their lower concentration of glucose compared to grapes, pineapples, & bananas. so, don't worry if you choose other fruit than the higher-glucose ones postworkout; you're still winning out in the antioxidant arena.

[theoryTim]

Well if alan say's so, then I cannot debate it. Anti-oxidant or not, cutting or gaining weight or not, i'd still not use a fruit that is high with frutose PWO. That's just me and i've stated (and you've stated also) why you shouldn't. As for me I want this stuff to be absorbed right away.

Hence why I use Waxy Maize Starch cause it gets bypassed in the stomach and disgests in the intestine which means it's virtually absorbed right away.

Kudos to though man for doing some reading and studying. Reps earned, although I won't agree with it BUT alan knows much, MUCH more than I.

[soulstealer]

Well if alan say's so, then I cannot debate it. Anti-oxidant or not, cutting or gaining weight or not, i'd still not use a fruit that is high with frutose PWO. That's just me and i've stated (and you've stated also) why you shouldn't. As for me I want this stuff to be absorbed right away.

Hence why I use Waxy Maize Starch cause it gets bypassed in the stomach and disgests in the intestine which means it's virtually absorbed right away.

Kudos to though man for doing some reading and studying. Reps earned, although I won't agree with it BUT alan knows much, MUCH more than I.

So dont think I dont know what I'm talking about bro but on a side note Waxy Maize is superior in most cases... just arguing a point and i like fruit...lol

[Dave P]

All the arguments are completely wrong without any idea of what the individual is consuming the rest of the day. You cant just make a blanket statement and say Liquid or Solid is best. They each suit different camps. It all depends on what you've been eating the rest of the day, whether you're having a shake while working out etc. etc.