Advice about moving up in weight for my biceps...

[paula6989]

Hi,

I was wondering how long it took you guys to move up in weight for bicep exercises? I went from 15#, to 20#... and then to 25# rather quickly (in about 5 weeks)... and I have been on the 25's for about 5 weeks now. I am able to do 3 x 12 with these (more on a good day) and do multiple bicep exercises but I can't seem to move on to do even a few reps at 30#. It is so heavy! I was going to try with a spotter tomorrow. So my questions is, how did you guys progress as you got to heavier weights?

Thanks in advance for your input!

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by paula6989

Hi,

I was wondering how long it took you guys to move up in weight for bicep exercises? I went from 15#, to 20#... and then to 25# rather quickly (in about 5 weeks)... and I have been on the 25's for about 5 weeks now. I am able to do 3 x 12 with these (more on a good day) and do multiple bicep exercises but I can't seem to move on to do even a few reps at 30#. It is so heavy! I was going to try with a spotter tomorrow. So my questions is, how did you guys progress as you got to heavier weights?

Thanks in advance for your input!

I actually remember getting over the 30 pound hump...I used a weight that was WAY too heavy, 35 lbs, spotted myself with the opposite hand where I needed to and then went straight to the 25 when I couldn't get the 35 up any more. Eventually I could do alternating 35's for a couple of reps, so I'd do that and then drop to the 25's again. It took a few weeks, but eventually the 30's started to feel super light compared to the crappy reps I was doing with 35's.

I did the same thing when I was trying to use 35's for full sets, but the same tactic has not worked with 40's. I've been stuck at 3 reps with 40's forever.

[gfundaro]

That's natural....the first 4 or so weeks of training promote only neurological changes, so your strength will increase drastically. After that, you have to train specifically for strength if you want to see an increase. Your current rep range is for hypertrophy, which isn't specific to more strength adaptation. If you want to be able to use the 30's, you'll have to drop the reps down and shift the focus of your training. Once you've gained strength, you can work on building enough endurance to increase the repetitions at a higher weight. But that all takes weeks, so you just have to decide what your main goal is.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

That's natural....the first 4 or so weeks of training promote only neurological changes, so your strength will increase drastically. After that, you have to train specifically for strength if you want to see an increase. Your current rep range is for hypertrophy, which isn't specific to more strength adaptation. If you want to be able to use the 30's, you'll have to drop the reps down and shift the focus of your training. Once you've gained strength, you can work on building enough endurance to increase the repetitions at a higher weight. But that all takes weeks, so you just have to decide what your main goal is.

Sorry... just to make sure... so should I move to lighter weights?

[Samus_Fan]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

That's natural....the first 4 or so weeks of training promote only neurological changes, so your strength will increase drastically. After that, you have to train specifically for strength if you want to see an increase. Your current rep range is for hypertrophy, which isn't specific to more strength adaptation. If you want to be able to use the 30's, you'll have to drop the reps down and shift the focus of your training. Once you've gained strength, you can work on building enough endurance to increase the repetitions at a higher weight. But that all takes weeks, so you just have to decide what your main goal is.

I've noticed the same problem as the OP... I'm stuck at about 25lbs, too, and I don't know why I didn't realize it... but Gfundaro is totally right. That is why all of the strength building routines have lower reps and higher sets (such as 5x5 training).

Today, I just crammed on an additional 2.5 lbs to each side of the barbell and managed 10 reps at that weight range. I think if I really want to up my strength, I'll just have to switch it up to even higher weight and more sets.... but that won't be for a couple of weeks, anyway.

[gfundaro]

Originally Posted by paula6989

Sorry... just to make sure... so should I move to lighter weights?

No no....you just have to decide what you want more : strength or growth. If you decrease the reps, you'll be able to use more weight, but you won't see growth. If you keep the reps where they are, you'll see more growth, but won't be able to use more weight.

After the first month of training, you really have to stay focused and pay attention to specificity, or training in a way that promotes whatever adaptation you want. Your body can't make generalized adaptations to everything.

[terracotta]

Try using the ez-bar for bicep curls instead of dumbbells. Then you can go up by 5# total, instead of 5# per arm.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

No no....you just have to decide what you want more : strength or growth. If you decrease the reps, you'll be able to use more weight, but you won't see growth. If you keep the reps where they are, you'll see more growth, but won't be able to use more weight.

After the first month of training, you really have to stay focused and pay attention to specificity, or training in a way that promotes whatever adaptation you want. Your body can't make generalized adaptations to everything.

Oh oops! I reread your original post. I'm going to try lowering the amount of reps. I don't really want to get bigger, I need to lose all my fat. But I want to be stronger, it's fun knowing that I can lift more than some of the guys at the gym. But besides that, I really like the feeling I get lifting hard and heavy!

So, just to make sure... should I do more sets with 5-6 reps? Like 4 sets instead of 3? Not to sound like a complete idiot, just a little confused. Thank you! I've read your other posts so I know you know what you are talking about!

[gfundaro]

Originally Posted by paula6989

Oh oops! I reread your original post. I'm going to try lowering the amount of reps. I don't really want to get bigger, I need to lose all my fat. But I want to be stronger, it's fun knowing that I can lift more than some of the guys at the gym. But besides that, I really like the feeling I get lifting hard and heavy!

So, just to make sure... should I do more sets with 5-6 reps? Like 4 sets instead of 3? Not to sound like a complete idiot, just a little confused. Thank you! I've read your other posts so I know you know what you are talking about!

If 3 sets at 5-6 reps fatigues you, there's no need to do more. Once you reach fatigue, you've recruited all the muscle fibers available, and you won't improve them any more with further sets. In fact, 95% of your progress comes from the first set. You quickly reach a point of diminishing returns where you're just taking up extra time.

[zombieang]

I agree. I will have to search the web for them. But there are these little magentic plates you can attach to weights that increase each dumbell by 2.5lbs so you go from 25 to a 27.5 to 30, etc etc....I'll look them up and post back. A few years ago a guy at my gym was showing me that trick to move myself from 40 to 45s on military press.

[Samus_Fan]

Since we're on the subject of training for strength..... does doing so work just as well for fat loss as lifting to gain mass? I mean... if we're building muscle, and that heightens the metabolism, etc, etc, does making the muscle stronger and more efficient have the same effect?

[zombieang]

http://www.theplatemate.com/products.htm

Here are the products I was referring to. You can get weights from 5/8lb to 5lbs magnetic pieces for any weight set style. Good luck.

[gfundaro]

Originally Posted by Samus_Fan

Since we're on the subject of training for strength..... does doing so work just as well for fat loss as lifting to gain mass? I mean... if we're building muscle, and that heightens the metabolism, etc, etc, does making the muscle stronger and more efficient have the same effect?

That depends...different things cause strength.

The first four weeks of training, regardless of training type, result in no change in the muscle, only neuromuscular changes. Your strength increases due to those changes, but as far as any increase in your BMR, there won't be one due to the anaerobic training.

After that, if you're training for strength, your muscles will change. Protein will be used to increase the size of pieces in the cell that cause a contraction...so in some respect, you are increase the body's energy needs for that type of hypertrophy. However, it's a miniscule amount, and really just makes your muscles more dense rather than any larger.

If you're training for hypertrophy, you're increasing the glycogen, cytoplasm, and mitochondrion in the cell, which obviously increases metabolic rate. However, making the muscle larger can also increase force potential, so you can get stronger with this type of training too.

The important thing to consider is that your cardio and DIET should be used for fat loss. It's a nice side-effect to lifting, but you should lift specific to your goals. I would like to be able to train at a higher rep range for my legs, but I don't want any more hypertrophy, so I train for strength. I don't get the mitochondrial adaptation, but I don't get stuck with size either.

[Amanda76]

Originally Posted by zombieang

http://www.theplatemate.com/products.htm

Here are the products I was referring to. You can get weights from 5/8lb to 5lbs magnetic pieces for any weight set style. Good luck.

Those magnets are fantastic...only one of my old gyms had them, though. They're hard to come by. I may have to get some now that I know where to go!

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by paula6989

Hi,

I was wondering how long it took you guys to move up in weight for bicep exercises? I went from 15#, to 20#... and then to 25# rather quickly (in about 5 weeks)... and I have been on the 25's for about 5 weeks now. I am able to do 3 x 12 with these (more on a good day) and do multiple bicep exercises but I can't seem to move on to do even a few reps at 30#. It is so heavy! I was going to try with a spotter tomorrow. So my questions is, how did you guys progress as you got to heavier weights?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Something's up.

How long have you been training?

And what is your split like?

When do you do curls in your routine, and what do you do before them?

*edit*, without knowing anything more, I'm going to venture a guess: you have other exercises that use the biceps in your routine (prior to your curls) that have been progressing?

[LilT1026]

Wow, lots of great advice on this thread! I was impressed with myself for moving up to the 20 lbs, looks like I still have a lot of catching up to do.

[freebirdmac]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

Something's up.

How long have you been training?

And what is your split like?

When do you do curls in your routine, and what do you do before them?

*edit*, without knowing anything more, I'm going to venture a guess: you have other exercises that use the biceps in your routine (prior to your curls) that have been progressing?

This is what has held my bicep progression up. I work shoulders first and have been making gains in that area. I can feel the fatigue by the time I get to biceps. I figure my shoulders will adapt and then my biceps will progress once more.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

Something's up.

How long have you been training?

And what is your split like?

When do you do curls in your routine, and what do you do before them?

*edit*, without knowing anything more, I'm going to venture a guess: you have other exercises that use the biceps in your routine (prior to your curls) that have been progressing?

I've only been training since January 8th, so I understand things take time... but I had progressed from 15's so quickly that I was starting to wonder what I was doing wrong.

I work each muscle group twice a week. Arms (bi's and tri's on same day), back the next day, chest the next day and the 4th day I do shoulders and legs, although I do shoulders in the morning with my morning cardio session and do legs during my evening weight traning session.

I usually do Hammer Curls first... then seated dips. Then bicep curls, tricep work with the short bar on the cable machine, barbell curls, etc. I do about 4 exercises for both bi's and tri's. Will my tricep work affect my bicep work that much? I am up to 150# on the seated dip, 110# with the short bar for tricep pulldowns, 40# on skull crushers...

On shoulder days I moved up to 30# with shoulder/military press. I can do 3 x 6 with that. My chest is the weakest and I have been working to build that up. I can get more specific with my exercises but this post would get pretty long.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by zombieang

http://www.theplatemate.com/products.htm

Here are the products I was referring to. You can get weights from 5/8lb to 5lbs magnetic pieces for any weight set style. Good luck.

Wow, those are awesome! I will for sure order some. I didn't know they made those. Thanks!

[Defiant1]

Originally Posted by paula6989

I've only been training since January 8th, so I understand things take time... but I had progressed from 15's so quickly that I was starting to wonder what I was doing wrong.

I work each muscle group twice a week. Arms (bi's and tri's on same day), back the next day, chest the next day and the 4th day I do shoulders and legs, although I do shoulders in the morning with my morning cardio session and do legs during my evening weight traning session.

I usually do Hammer Curls first... then seated dips. Then bicep curls, tricep work with the short bar on the cable machine, barbell curls, etc. I do about 4 exercises for both bi's and tri's. Will my tricep work affect my bicep work that much? I am up to 150# on the seated dip, 110# with the short bar for tricep pulldowns, 40# on skull crushers...

On shoulder days I moved up to 30# with shoulder/military press. I can do 3 x 6 with that. My chest is the weakest and I have been working to build that up. I can get more specific with my exercises but this post would get pretty long.

I don't know, what do you guys think?

Triceps won't effect your bicep workouts.

How is your back coming along?

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by Defiant1

Triceps won't effect your bicep workouts.

How is your back coming along?

My back! Wow, my back is my strongest, right after my legs. That's my favorite to work out. High row (Hammer strength) I can do 160#, 3 x 10, 175#, 1 x 5... bent over row with Olympic Bar (120#), lat pulldown (wide grip) - 120#-130# (on a good day)... one arm dumbell row 40# (3 x 8)... I'm pretty much along those lines and do 6-7 different exercises depending on how much time I have.

[paula6989]

Today is my arm workout so I am going to try for the thirties, and cut my reps down with the 25's. I hope I can get it up a couple times today.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by terracotta

Try using the ez-bar for bicep curls instead of dumbbells. Then you can go up by 5# total, instead of 5# per arm.

That's a good idea. I am going to incorporate this into my workout today. Thank you to everyone who gave me good advice!

[Samus_Fan]

Originally Posted by gfundaro

That depends...different things cause strength.

The first four weeks of training, regardless of training type, result in no change in the muscle, only neuromuscular changes. Your strength increases due to those changes, but as far as any increase in your BMR, there won't be one due to the anaerobic training.

After that, if you're training for strength, your muscles will change. Protein will be used to increase the size of pieces in the cell that cause a contraction...so in some respect, you are increase the body's energy needs for that type of hypertrophy. However, it's a miniscule amount, and really just makes your muscles more dense rather than any larger.

If you're training for hypertrophy, you're increasing the glycogen, cytoplasm, and mitochondrion in the cell, which obviously increases metabolic rate. However, making the muscle larger can also increase force potential, so you can get stronger with this type of training too.

The important thing to consider is that your cardio and DIET should be used for fat loss. It's a nice side-effect to lifting, but you should lift specific to your goals. I would like to be able to train at a higher rep range for my legs, but I don't want any more hypertrophy, so I train for strength. I don't get the mitochondrial adaptation, but I don't get stuck with size either.

Haha, I need to spread the love before I rep you again! But thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.... I can see what you mean, and I kinda figured it was diet and calorie deficit over all that determined fat loss.... I was just curious as to the differences in training. I may have to switch over to strength training just 'cause I don't know how much mass I want to put on yet and I really love to up the weight!

Speaking of which, I am pretty jealous of you, Paula, with some of those lifts! How did it go trying the higher weight with your curls??

[zombieang]

They are pretty cool little attachments. Some stores carry them. It was very helpful for me. Since dumbell military press is much better than barbell press. If you can afford to buy them, get some of the little plate attachments. It will help you break past a plateau. If not drop the weight down and increase reps. And do forced reps as mentioned earlier.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by Samus_Fan

Haha, I need to spread the love before I rep you again! But thank you for taking the time to explain that to me.... I can see what you mean, and I kinda figured it was diet and calorie deficit over all that determined fat loss.... I was just curious as to the differences in training. I may have to switch over to strength training just 'cause I don't know how much mass I want to put on yet and I really love to up the weight!

Speaking of which, I am pretty jealous of you, Paula, with some of those lifts! How did it go trying the higher weight with your curls??

You guys must have given me good luck! Well, I went in, started with hammer curls... I did 1 x 6 with 25s. Easy. Then I did 1 x 4 with 30s! Oh my.... I was ecstatic! I thought about you girls the entire time! Lol. I had to drop back to 25s and then moved onto my first tricep workout. (Up to my bodyweight on the seated dip now!) But I went ahead and tried 30s again for bicep curls and did 1 x 5, last one I assisted myself a little bit. I am absolutely thrilled and can't wait for my next arm workout. The guys that work there think I am a maniac.

I think I'm definitely staying at lower reps and work on strength as well. Just like you, I am not sure how much mass I want... If want to compete in figure and continue my cardio and clean eating, would I be able to maintain the look with high weight/low reps or would it be at that point I would need to drop back down to low weight/high reps? Is it safe to assume I would lose the strength I gained?

Thank you guys for your help. I really was able to overcome my "hurdle" today!

[Samus_Fan]

Wow, congrats! I know I can't wait to try, as I really want to move 30 lbs... haha, I must be a maniac, too.

As for fitness, I honestly don't know.... I would assume that your physique would stay mostly the same as you worked on strength (muscle mass wise), and I think muscle memory applies to strength, as well... so if you had to go back to a different routine, I don't think you would automatically lose strength. BUT I am probably not the best person to comment on this.... lol.

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by Samus_Fan

Wow, congrats! I know I can't wait to try, as I really want to move 30 lbs... haha, I must be a maniac, too.

As for fitness, I honestly don't know.... I would assume that your physique would stay mostly the same as you worked on strength (muscle mass wise), and I think muscle memory applies to strength, as well... so if you had to go back to a different routine, I don't think you would automatically lose strength. BUT I am probably not the best person to comment on this.... lol.

Well, as if I wasn't all stressed about moving up in weights... My friend who competes and trains saw me working out my back at the gym this morning and got so mad at me! She said I need to lose my back fat (duh) and is afraid of my back getting wider. So for example, she had me lat pulldowns... 40 reps @ 60 lbs, then drop to 50 lbs and do 30 reps and then down to 40 lbs and do 30 reps no rest. She wants me to start doing high high high reps with a somewhat lighter weight. She trains a ton of ppl and have had a lot of success. She has an awesome physique. So now I am utterly confused as to what to do. Any input from you figure girls?

[zombieang]

Not a figure girl....but all those high reps are going to do, is maybe burn some calories and help your endurance. Won't make you stronger or bigger. Unless you have the genetics of the Incredible Hulk!

[paula6989]

Originally Posted by zombieang

Not a figure girl....but all those high reps are going to do, is maybe burn some calories and help your endurance. Won't make you stronger or bigger. Unless you have the genetics of the Incredible Hulk!

Ugh! I know! I want to get down to a low body and compete but I don't necessarily want to be tiny!