Distilled Vs bottled water

[baileys423]

During your last week of Contest prep I hear that you should drink only distilled water, about 2 gallons a day then taper off through out the week till friday where you only sip on it. My question what is the difference in distilled and just regular bottled water?

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by baileys423

During your last week of Contest prep I hear that you should drink only distilled water, about 2 gallons a day then taper off through out the week till friday where you only sip on it. My question what is the difference in distilled and just regular bottled water?

1) Don't cut water. The amount of water that you hold subcutaneously has very little/if anything to do with the AMOUNT of water your drinking, rather the balance of your solutes. Please read Dr Joe Klem's article on water.

2) Regular tap water is fine. There's going to be no difference.

Sporto

EDIT: This is if you are a natural competitor. If you are using drugs or diuretics, you can get away with a lot more...

[NoelFuller]

wow sporto your totaly wrong. The difference is distilled water has nothing in it while bottled water can have everything. Its is vital you use distilled for the diuretic to be set up properly..there are steps to take to drop water right. Sporto is way off on this one!!!!

[semper27]

DO NOT CUT WATER! Either you're peeled or your not! Sporto is right on the money with this one.

[Hardcore Natural]

Originally Posted by NoelFuller

wow sporto your totaly wrong. The difference is distilled water has nothing in it while bottled water can have everything. Its is vital you use distilled for the diuretic to be set up properly..there are steps to take to drop water right. Sporto is way off on this one!!!!

If you are truly shredded and have done your homework to come in fully conditioned then the type of water you take in is not going make or break you. As long as you don't cut water fully out and take in adequate amounts (even the day of the show), you won't have to worry. Sporto is right.

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by NoelFuller

wow sporto your totaly wrong. The difference is distilled water has nothing in it while bottled water can have everything. Its is vital you use distilled for the diuretic to be set up properly..there are steps to take to drop water right. Sporto is way off on this one!!!!

LOL...I had a whole post written ripping into this one, but first I'll just do this.

Ok, Noel...so you think I am way off on this one, huh? How about you back up what you are saying with some physiology on how water balance works in the human body? Or at least back it up with something? I'd like to hear your argument for cutting water and why you think it's a good thing to do, despite all of the natural pros at the elite level who don't cut water and look far better, leaner, and more vascular than the bloated steroid using guys who do cut water (along with everyone else who does). Why is it that most everyone who does cut water always say they looked better a couple days before and/or a couple of days after? I'll give you a hint: Water.

Wait...that was the answer

Sporto

[Sporto1633]

Just for fun, I'd been drinking about 2-2.5 gallons of water a day when these we taken






I can't see where I'm holding any water...wait, that's because the AMOUNT has nothing to do with where you hold it. Go figure

Sporto

[Hardcore Natural]

Me thinks the dude just got OWNED!

[Agostage]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Natural

Me thinks the dude just got OWNED!

I concur.

[yzrider400f]

atta boy sporto

Muscles are over 60% water, cutting it out is only going to make you look flat and feel like ****.

[Sporto1633]

The main thing is, I don't want the OP (which if his stats are correct, he's probably a natty) to fall into the trap of "hearing" about all the dogmatic, cookie cutter crap we hear about the final week of contest prep. Distailled water, sodium loading, potassium loading, cutting water, prep H, etc...

I mean, your body is way too perfect at preserving sodium levels and solute balance. It's only when we start really messing around with it is when it gets out of whack (releasing aldosterone, holding subQ water, etc.). Slight sodium loading early on and cutting it slowly down to normal levels (whatever that may be for the individual - depends on what foods he has been eating up to that point), or even slightly lower than normal levels is a good way to "nudge" you solute balance to get water to flow out, but anything more than that, as a natty, is a recipe for some smoothness on stage.

Sporto

[bbronswyk2000]

WOW!!! You are so vascular. How did you get that vascular without taking water out????

[Sporto1633]

Like I said, it has NOTHING to do with the amount of water you drink. Solutes control WHERE you hold water.

Read Dr Joe Klem's article on water balance. It is fabulous.

Also, I'd like to point out that Noel trains bodybuilders at the IFBB pro level - which means they use a large assortment drugs AND diuretics. Cutting water may work for them, but NOT for naturals. Although I would still maintain that even the IFBB pros would look better if they kept water in, but that's just my .02.

Noel, my post on water intake is geared towards naturals who choose not to use the things that your clients obviously use. Their physiology is completely different because of the drugs they take.

Sporto

[Hardcore Natural]

Originally Posted by bbronswyk2000

WOW!!! You are so vascular. How did you get that vascular without taking water out????

By doing his homework in getting extremely lean and by KEEPING WATER IN!!

[Hardcore Natural]

Hey Sporto, where can I read Dr Joe Klem's article on water balance?

[Sporto1633]

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drjoe.htm

There's the entire list of his articles. He's got some good ones in there. Some are a little vague, but they have to be - he makes his living off of the details.

Sporto

[bbronswyk2000]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Natural

By doing his homework in getting extremely lean and by KEEPING WATER IN!!

I wasnt being sarcastic I was being serious. I am doing my first show so I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

[Hardcore Natural]

Originally Posted by Sporto1633

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drjoe.htm

There's the entire list of his articles. He's got some good ones in there. Some are a little vague, but they have to be - he makes his living off of the details.

Sporto

Cool, thank you!

[semper27]

Originally Posted by bbronswyk2000

I wasnt being sarcastic I was being serious. I am doing my first show so I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

Actually there are no trick's! Peeled is peeled..... water should not be an issue!

[Hardcore Natural]

Originally Posted by bbronswyk2000

I wasnt being sarcastic I was being serious. I am doing my first show so I am still learning the tricks of the trade.

Oh no, I wasn't taking it as you were being sarcastic...what I said in my response is in a serious manner...that is basically what he did. And by my earlier post, I meant that he just made sure that his body fat levels were down to where they need to be ahead of time....if you make sure that you're lean enough, then there is little need to rely on manipulations to achieve your shreddedness. The secret is just being lean enough to begin with...do that, and you're ready to do battle!

[J_Bo]

Does anyone realize that drinking too much distilled water can actually be toxic....causing death??? Your sodium ion pump gets all ****ed up and your cells dehydrate and die.

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by J_Bo

Does anyone realize that drinking too much distilled water can actually be toxic....causing death??? Your sodium ion pump gets all ****ed up and your cells dehydrate and die.

Which is why none of us drink distilled water

Sporto

[J_Bo]

Originally Posted by Sporto1633

Which is why none of us drink distilled water

Sporto

Just figured it was one more argument against it

[Frankdaddy]

I was reading this article on abcbodybuilding.com and it sais to start a sodium load saturday before the show at about 5,000 mg and do that during my carb depletion...then during my carb loading I drop all sodium out

It also sais to drink (30 some cups) 2-2.5 gallons of water during this sodium load then thursday before the show drop to 24 cups then friday drop to 10 cups then drink water at the show to quench your thirst...does this sound bad because it isnt really cutting water just dopping it since all the sodium is gone

it also said that distilled is a more pure form to drink it ..


anyone agree or disagree...because I was leaning torwards this to use since im 6 week out

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by Frankdaddy

I was reading this article on abcbodybuilding.com and it sais to start a sodium load saturday before the show at about 5,000 mg and do that during my carb depletion...then during my carb loading I drop all sodium out

It also sais to drink (30 some cups) 2-2.5 gallons of water during this sodium load then thursday before the show drop to 24 cups then friday drop to 10 cups then drink water at the show to quench your thirst...does this sound bad because it isnt really cutting water just dopping it since all the sodium is gone

it also said that distilled is a more pure form to drink it ..


anyone agree or disagree...because I was leaning torwards this to use since im 6 week out

1) Absolutely do NOT cut sodium out completely...that's one of the worst things you can do as a natty. A slight load from your normal levels to a slight cut to just below normal levels will be sufficient to accomplish the 'nudge' I was referring to. Cutting it out completely will trigger aldosterone and the smoothness will soon follow.

2) I don't taper water at all. I keep it high until night before then quench thirst on show day. Let the solite balance do its thing and flow the water out.

3) Distilled just means it has filtered out everything (sodium, along with other minerals, etc.) so that's what it means by being pure. Still, regular water is what you want anyway. Taking out the impurities will not affect where water isbeing held in your body.

Sporto

[Hardcore Natural]

Originally Posted by Sporto1633

1) Absolutely do NOT cut sodium out completely...that's one of the worst things you can do as a natty. A slight load from your normal levels to a slight cut to just below normal levels will be sufficient to accomplish the 'nudge' I was referring to. Cutting it out completely will trigger aldosterone and the smoothness will soon follow.

2) I don't taper water at all. I keep it high until night before then quench thirst on show day. Let the solite balance do its thing and flow the water out.

3) Distilled just means it has filtered out everything (sodium, along with other minerals, etc.) so that's what it means by being pure. Still, regular water is what you want anyway. Taking out the impurities will not affect where water isbeing held in your body.

Sporto

Sporto...

You know what...you're absolutely right... I can remember when I did my first show in 2004.... I took in more sodium than normal in the days leading up to the final 3 days before the show (I was salting my meals)...then, on Friday I cut the sodium out, yet took a 99mg potassium tab every 2 hours through show day. I also lowered my water intake from 2+ gallons up through the wednesday before, to 1 1/2 gallons on Thursday, to 3/4 gallons on Friday, and just sipping water during show day to quench my thirst.

I looked good onstage, but I was A LOT smoother on show day compared to the next day (Sunday) when I woke up. The thing is, I had 3-5 slices of pizza after my show and then when I woke up on Sunday morning, I looked in the mirror and just about **** my posing trunks!! My body had tightened up, got majorly vascular and filled out massively...I looked at least 30% better than the day before. Do you think this was because I added sodium back in (from the pizza the night before)...or do you think it was a combination of getting more carbs/fat and sodium into my system ..like as in I just had not carbed up enough?

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas? I had originally thought it was because I had not carbed up enough and the pizza is what my body needed to fill out properly...but maybe it had more to do with sodium, potassium and water levels.

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by Hardcore Natural

Sporto...

You know what...you're absolutely right... I can remember when I did my first show in 2004.... I took in more sodium than normal in the days leading up to the final 3 days before the show (I was salting my meals)...then, on Friday I cut the sodium out, yet took a 99mg potassium tab every 2 hours through show day. I also lowered my water intake from 2+ gallons up through the wednesday before, to 1 1/2 gallons on Thursday, to 3/4 gallons on Friday, and just sipping water during show day to quench my thirst.

I looked good onstage, but I was A LOT smoother on show day compared to the next day (Sunday) when I woke up. The thing is, I had 3-5 slices of pizza after my show and then when I woke up on Sunday morning, I looked in the mirror and just about **** my posing trunks!! My body had tightened up, got majorly vascular and filled out massively...I looked at least 30% better than the day before. Do you think this was because I added sodium back in (from the pizza the night before)...or do you think it was a combination of getting more carbs/fat and sodium into my system ..like as in I just had not carbed up enough?

Just wondering if anyone has any ideas? I had originally thought it was because I had not carbed up enough and the pizza is what my body needed to fill out properly...but maybe it had more to do with sodium, potassium and water levels.

I am going to post here one of the greatest posts about this subject from someone I truly admire and respect, my mentor Layne Norton (who by the way guided me all the way to a pro card win). Here is a direct quote:

Layne on water intake for contest prep:

One thing I always find funny is the looks my clients get at their shows. None of my clients water deplete, and most of them drink 1-2 gallons of water on show day. They always get strange looks and people asking them if they are concerned about 'retaining water.'
In our natural state we actually have MORE water inside our cells than outside our cells (subcutaneous water). It is when you screw with things that you start getting problems. People seem to have this notion that if they cut water, they will lose all their subcutaneous water. There are a few problems with this: 1) You won't just lose water from the subcutaneous area, you will also lose it out of the muscle tissue, and you will most likely lose MORE from the muscle than from the subcutaneous layer as the body will attempt to maintain the water balance between the inside & outside of the cell. 2) You will flatten yourself out big time. The only reason a carb load works is because the increased glycogen causes your cells to store more water. All you have really done is flatten yourself out, you haven't changed the ratio of intracellular/extracellular water at all.
I know what you are thinking "but Layne, at my last show a judge said I needed to be drier" or "everyone tells me I just need to lose the water." Well I'm not here to make you feel better about yourself, I'm here to help you do better at your next show. And the truth is that people are telling you that you are 'holding water' because they don't want to hurt your feelings. The fact of the matter is that you weren't 'holding water' you just weren't lean enough. Period.
Look at top natural competitor's Tommy Jeffer's, Kurt Weidner and Ben Goins at 3 weeks before a show. They are 'drier' than 99.99% of people who compete ever will be. No water manipulation, no sodium manipulation, nothing. How can they look so dry when they haven't changed a thing from their normal diet? What is their secret. Well listen very closely because I'm only going to tell you the secret once. The big secret is THEY ARE EXTREMELY LEAN! They gave themselves long enough to diet and they were honest with themselves about how much fat they needed to lose. That's the secret. Get shredded and very little of that final week stuff is needed.
Most people don't realize that the big reason all these complex final week protocols came about was simply marketing from pre-contest prep 'gurus'. If it was as simple as just getting shredded, how would these guys stay in business? They make their clients feel like they 'need' them because these guys have their clients manipulating fifteen hundred variables in the last week. How could they possibly do that on their own? And thus, they feel like they need their 'guru'. You would be surprised at how many clients I probably lose because my approach is so straight forward & grounded, but I'm not in this to make money dishonestly. The secret is simple, give yourself enough time to diet, be honest with yourself about how much bodyfat you have to lose, and GET SHREDDED! Period.
-------------
From a blog I wrote:
This past weekend I had a client call me and tell me that he felt he was holding water. Now typically I think that 99% of people who say they are ?holding water? just aren?t in shape, but I knew he was in shape, but I figured he was probably paranoid. But he was very convinced that he was in deed not nearly as tight as he had been. So what do we do? What can we do if we get to the day before or dare I say the day of the show and for whatever reason we are holding water? Most people would say ?cut water? or ?take a diuretic. I would have to disagree with that.

What you have to remember is that even if you are holding water under the skin, cutting water is not the best way to get rid of it. If you are holding water under the skin & you cut it then you are just going to increase aldosterone even more and reabsorb more water from the nephrons into the interstitial space. When you cut water or take a diuretic you will not be able to control where you take it from? it is going to come out of muscle and out of the subcutaneous tissue; the problem is it's going to come out in the same ratio contained by the two areas. If we think about Le Chatelier's principle we can start to make sense of it. For those of you who haven?t had a lot of chemistry, Le Chatelier's principle can be used to predict the effect of a change in conditions on a chemical equilibrium. It can be summarized as: ?If a chemical system at equilibrium experiences achange in concentration, temperature, volume, or total pressure; the equilibrium will shift in order to partially counter-act the imposed change.? For example, let?s say we have 2 reactions: A ----> B-----> C. If you remove C, then you will accelerate the conversion of B to C, and also accelerate the conversion of A to B. PULLING the reaction forward. Now if you reduce the amount of A, then the conversion of A to be will slow and therefore, the movement of B to C will also slow in order to maintain equilibrium. By the same token, let's look at water distribution assuming A is water in the muscle, B is water in the interstitial space, and C is water in the kidneys. If you take a diuretic to increase water excretion, (in our example, removal of C) you will therefore accelerate the removal of B (interstitial) but you will also accelerate the removal of A at the same rate to maintain equilibrium. The ratio of water in each compartment stays the same, all you have managed to do is reduce water in all departments and flatten yourself out. So what happens if we cut water? If you cut water then you are reducing the input of A into the system. This will reduce the movement of A into B, and will subsequently reduce the movement of B into C. In this case the kidney totally restricts it?s excretion of water due to the reduced input in order to maintain equilibrium. Again the distribution of water in the compartments is unchanged, there is just less water everywhere and so you are just flatter everywhere.
So what do you do? You?ve only got days or worst case, hours until you have be onstage and you have to tighten up. What can you do? Your best bet is to MOVE the water by changing the equilibrium. That is taking the water from the interstitial space and moving it into the muscle tissue. The best way to do that is to start doing a good hard pump up workout for anywhere to 20-40 minutes. There is no need to go heavy, just a circuit with lighter weights to get a really good pump going. This is going to do a few things

1) Increase blood flow and blood pressure helping to push water from the interstitial area into the vascular system.

2) Upregulate skeletal muscle GLUT-4 receptors, causing your muscle to pull more glucose from the interstitial space into the muscle and a lot of water along with it

3) It will increase perspiration, which isn't always a good thing but if you are in fact holding water it may help get rid of excess water in subcutaneous tissue.

So what happened to our mystery man who was holding water? Well he didn?t cut water, he didn?t take a diuretic, he just did a nice circuit training routine the night before the show and then again the morning of the show. That night he called me to tell me he tightened up and won his show. Don?t thank me though? thank Henry Louis Le Chatelier. Who would have known a dead French geek from the late 1800s would be helping people win bodybuilding shows in the 21st century?
-------------------------------------------------------------
This is something I wrote a few days ago, just some thoughts on your typical 'guru' final week protocols.

1) your water balance is regulated in the kidney by the minute. By the time you realize you are thirsty your body is already releasing ADH to help reabsorb water from the nephron

2) There is a ratio of intracellular to extra cellular water. When you cut water will you lose some extracellular water? sure, but it is going to maintain that same gradient. IT HAS TO. You see, if you could drastically change the volume that one held without affecting the other, then you would cause massive movement of solutes also as one area losing water would drastically increase the concentration of solutes in that area. This could affect all kinds of things like electrochemical gradients and things CRUCIAL to proper cell function. Therefore, to maintain this gradient in the proper ratio water will leave the intracellular space into the extracellular space to equilibrate the concentration gradients.

3) Since most people who cut water also cut sodium at the same time, that means your levels of ADH/aldosterone will be VERY VERY high (can increase several fold in a matter of 48 hours of depleted sodium) that means that you will be reabsorbing sodium/water. Only now since your sodium is low, you do not have the pressure in the vascular system to maintain the reabsorbed water IN the vascular system and it will leak into the interstitial space.

4) What is more, the glucose transporter, SLGT-1, in the small intestine is a sodium dependant transport and low sodium intake has been shown repeatedly to DECREASE THE RATE OF GLUCOSE UPTAKE. this is important because all these guys are typically carb loading big time at the same time they deplete water & sodium in the misguided effort to 'fill out'. So now you are getting less glucose into the enterocyte and less into circulation. So you aren't getting the muscle the glucose it needs. What is more, now you have all that extra glucose sitting in the small intestine acting as a solute & drawing water into the small intestine. Not good to have a bunch of fluid in the gut.

So now all you've managed to do is flatten yourself out and draw water into the places you DON'T want it when in reality in the basal state there is more water inside the cell than outside it and it's only when you start screwing with things that you get bad things happening.





There you have it...and you know what? He is SPOT ON!

Sporto

[bbronswyk2000]

I didnt want to start a new thread so I will just ask here. When you guys count how much water you take in do you include...
1. water at the gym
2. diet soda's ( if you drink them )

I know alot of bb'ers drink 2 gallons and even more but I find it hard. If I include the water at the gym I am drinking about 1-1.5 gallons a day.

[Sporto1633]

Originally Posted by bbronswyk2000

I didnt want to start a new thread so I will just ask here. When you guys count how much water you take in do you include...
1. water at the gym
2. diet soda's ( if you drink them )

I know alot of bb'ers drink 2 gallons and even more but I find it hard. If I include the water at the gym I am drinking about 1-1.5 gallons a day.

Water at the gym - yes...although I think most of us constantly carry around a 1 gallon jug with us at all times and drink from that, even while working out.

Diet Sodas - I never counted them, but then I never drank more than 1 here or there. There is water in there, true, but I personally would only count actual water.

Sporto

[Frankdaddy]

So should I raise the sodium to 5,000 mg then start dropping slightly over the week and have a sodium and carb load day of the show ? I never planned on cutting water really at all but about the sodium, should I do it that way or what