Should I bulk or cut?

[Draino]

I'm just getting started here, and not sure what the best direction for me would be. I'm 29, 6', 180lbs.

I'm a speedskater, so I already have a solid trunk. But like many speedskaters, I have weak-looking upper body. I'd like to get more porportional, specifically, bigger arms and shoulders. Being as though my workouts have mainly consisted of lower body lifts in the past, I've been working on my arms and shoulders a lot lately. And although they're becomming more defined, they're not getting any bigger and are still "skinny" looking. But, like I said, I am a good 180lbs already... and although I'm not chubby, I certainly don't have a flat 6pack stomach, and would certainly benefit from some fat burning.

So I figure it'll take both cycles, cutting and bulking. I'm just not sure wich to start with. Obviously, I'd like to start off increasing my calory intake to work on my immediate goals, but not if it's best to cut the excess fat first.

What would you recommend?

[db2012]

an article I wrote on this subject:

I notice a lot of the members here, are still focused on, and asking the question, "should I bulk or cut?" Well I'm here to tell you neither! Bulking up, followed by a cut is so 70s-90s. Most of the members here have very modest goals. To be in "better" shape, to gain a few lbs of muscle, and lose a few lbs of fat. Well you don't need a bulk/cut strategy for that. when you bulk/cut its very hard to remain honest with yourself, i.e (I gained 20lbs on my bulk!) 20lbs of what? How much of that is muscle, and what % of that muscle you gained will you lose when you cut?

First, when you "bulk up" using one of the many bulking diets out there, you will:

-gain un-wanted fat
-potentially get permanent stretch marks from too much growth over a short period of time
-depending on your type of bulk you can sacrifice your health and cardio, especially on a diet with too much fat/cholesterol.
-It's also my theory that bulking can lead to "over eating", and over eating leads to the Giant waist/guts we see in Bodybuilding (over eating does not mean gaining too much body fat)

Many people who are "almost done with their bulk" look like crap, and are not in shape!

The 2nd problem is after you have got yourself into this shape, the only thing you can do about it is "cut" right? When you cut, you will indefinitely lose some of the hard earned muscle you just gained from your bulk. Seems a bit counterproductive? Now cutting I cannot bash in the same sense as a bulk, because there is a time and a place for it.

Unless you're a professional bodybuilder, you don't need to try and gain as much muscle as possible, then follow up with a hardcore (10, 16, 20) week cutting diet. Many of the pros that use a bulk/cut strategy "bulk" the entire time they are not dieting for their next show, trying get as huge as possible "off season" many are AAS the whole time. 20, 16, 10 weeks prior to the show, they will "cut" or diet for the show, changing diet/training/gear. They do this purely for those couple of minutes they step on stage and that's it. In short if you're a pro you're going to always try to gain as much muscle as possible, until it's time to step on stage for 1 day, which in that event, you need to diet/cut. Most professional bodybuilders body fat goals on show time are < 3%, All of you who don't plan to step on stage should NOT have such an extreme fat loss goal, <3% is not only near impossible to maintain, but its extremely unhealthy.

For the regular Joe, bulking and cutting is just not practical. As a certified trainer, sport nutritionist, and bodybuilder off/on for the last decade. I have never used a bulk/cut diet, I have never used one with any of my clients, they have all reached the goals we put forth, all of the ones who put the time in any way. There are so many more effective diets for a person trying to gain muscle and lose some fat. I don't want to get too off track with all the better alternative diets. But as a rule of thumb eating clean and consistently, with your training and cardio in check (if cardio is needed) then you can reach your goals to lose fat, and gain muscle. It may take time, results are not as dramatic, but they are more realistic, there is no guess work, it?s completely honest. If your body fat is maintained (low body fat) and you are gaining weight on the scale, then you are gaining muscle! The #'s do not lie.

I can elaborate on some routine examples if someone who is bulking/cutting now gives me there goals/stats. The bottom line is bulking followed by a cut for the Avg Joe is just easy to follow on paper, too old school, not practical, counterproductive, and comes with a lot of baggage. I know I won't change every one?s mind, and will probably bunt heads with a few of you but it is what it is.

[Thrillryder23]

I'm pretty much following exactly what db2012 wrote there.

There is also another article on the exact topic on t-nation.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1268956

So far my results are great. you should consider doing this too OP.

[buddy72192]

an article I wrote on this subject:

I notice a lot of the members here, are still focused on, and asking the question, "should I bulk or cut?" Well I'm here to tell you neither! Bulking up, followed by a cut is so 70s-90s. Most of the members here have very modest goals. To be in "better" shape, to gain a few lbs of muscle, and lose a few lbs of fat. Well you don't need a bulk/cut strategy for that. when you bulk/cut its very hard to remain honest with yourself, i.e (I gained 20lbs on my bulk!) 20lbs of what? How much of that is muscle, and what % of that muscle you gained will you lose when you cut?

First, when you "bulk up" using one of the many bulking diets out there, you will:

-gain un-wanted fat
-potentially get permanent stretch marks from too much growth over a short period of time
-depending on your type of bulk you can sacrifice your health and cardio, especially on a diet with too much fat/cholesterol.
-It's also my theory that bulking can lead to "over eating", and over eating leads to the Giant waist/guts we see in Bodybuilding (over eating does not mean gaining too much body fat)

Many people who are "almost done with their bulk" look like crap, and are not in shape!

The 2nd problem is after you have got yourself into this shape, the only thing you can do about it is "cut" right? When you cut, you will indefinitely lose some of the hard earned muscle you just gained from your bulk. Seems a bit counterproductive? Now cutting I cannot bash in the same sense as a bulk, because there is a time and a place for it.

Unless you're a professional bodybuilder, you don't need to try and gain as much muscle as possible, then follow up with a hardcore (10, 16, 20) week cutting diet. Many of the pros that use a bulk/cut strategy "bulk" the entire time they are not dieting for their next show, trying get as huge as possible "off season" many are AAS the whole time. 20, 16, 10 weeks prior to the show, they will "cut" or diet for the show, changing diet/training/gear. They do this purely for those couple of minutes they step on stage and that's it. In short if you're a pro you're going to always try to gain as much muscle as possible, until it's time to step on stage for 1 day, which in that event, you need to diet/cut. Most professional bodybuilders body fat goals on show time are < 3%, All of you who don't plan to step on stage should NOT have such an extreme fat loss goal, <3% is not only near impossible to maintain, but its extremely unhealthy.

For the regular Joe, bulking and cutting is just not practical. As a certified trainer, sport nutritionist, and bodybuilder off/on for the last decade. I have never used a bulk/cut diet, I have never used one with any of my clients, they have all reached the goals we put forth, all of the ones who put the time in any way. There are so many more effective diets for a person trying to gain muscle and lose some fat. I don't want to get too off track with all the better alternative diets. But as a rule of thumb eating clean and consistently, with your training and cardio in check (if cardio is needed) then you can reach your goals to lose fat, and gain muscle. It may take time, results are not as dramatic, but they are more realistic, there is no guess work, it?s completely honest. If your body fat is maintained (low body fat) and you are gaining weight on the scale, then you are gaining muscle! The #'s do not lie.

I can elaborate on some routine examples if someone who is bulking/cutting now gives me there goals/stats. The bottom line is bulking followed by a cut for the Avg Joe is just easy to follow on paper, too old school, not practical, counterproductive, and comes with a lot of baggage. I know I won't change every one?s mind, and will probably bunt heads with a few of you but it is what it is.

You've never heard of a Clean Bulk? it's still bulking, just limiting fat gains.

[Draino]

Thank you. Very informative. I'm certainly not a body builder and not planning on becoming or looking like one. My weight is stable, in that I'm eating whatever I want (not on a restictive diet, but I tend to eat healthy naturally) and I'm not gaining or loosing weight. Being as though I have practice about 5 days a week, it's extremely easy for me to loose weight if I'm not paying attention. In fact, when I've intentionally cut back for the purposes of loosing weight in the past, I lost enough strength in my legs that it was affecting performance (i'm soley a short track racer).

So, with that being said, I've been focusing on my arms/shoulders for about three months. They're getting stronger and more muscular looking, but they're not getting bigger. If bulking is not the way to go, then I'm not sure what to change or how to proceed.

[BTSolutions]

Hey Draino

What I tell all of my clients is this:

If you are at 15% body fat or higher then you should cut.

Good luck

Dan Blumenstock
Personal Trainer

[Mrpb]

Hey Draino

What I tell all of my clients is this:

If you are at 15% body fat or higher then you should cut.

Good luck

Dan Blumenstock
Personal Trainer

FYI: he asked that question 6 years ago. If you want to help some people that need help now, look for threads that have been started recently.

[BTSolutions]

Sorry

Im new to forums.
Just trying to help.
If it didn't help him it could have helped someone else with the same issue.