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  1. #1
    Registered User robertthoburn's Avatar
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    Colostrum and 'Fast' vs. 'Slow' Proteins

    If you've ever entertained the idea of using a colostrum supplement for bodybuilding purposes, you might find what I'm about to share interesting, and hopefully useful.

    If you have used a colostrum supplement in an effort to enhance body composition, please share your experiences --bad, good or indifferent!

    I warn you that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed on the subject of colostrum (nor anything in particular), but I have learned some interesting things from research scientists that are.

    Milk, as most of you know, is a mixture of two major proteins, whey and casein. Colostrum, or 'first milk', is produced by mammals in the first 1-4 days of nursing. In cows, colostrum is produced up to about the 6th milking.

    Think of colostrum as milk with a built-in 'pharmacy'. Colostrum is teaming with microbe-fighting, tissue-building factors, all ready to go to work on the immature, and desperately dependent infant animal.

    Frequently, milk proteins are separated and sold as individual supplements (e.g., whey protein isolate).

    Not surprisingly, however, research is beginning to suggest that leaving casein and whey together (i.e., as nature gives them to us) may offer superior benefits. (Again, I say "may", as I'm to a certain extent theorizing here.). Casein seems to be especially important in this regard.

    Whey is commonly described as a ‘fast’ protein, meaning it is quickly digested and absorbed. Casein is considered ‘slow’ by comparison. Thus, popular in the bodybuilding community is the notion that combining whey and casein will offer rapid, yet sustained delivery of amino acids to the body's tissues (e.g., your muscles).

    Interestingly enough, however, the differences between casein and whey in terms of amino acid absorption seem to disappear within the context of a mixed meal. Furthermore, when it comes to digestion and absorption, it could be argued that faster is not necessarily better ---quite the contrary, in fact.

    Whey protein tends to 'dump' into the small intestine relatively more quickly than does casein. This is associated with a more rapid exposure ot the intestinal cells to the products of its digestion (peptides, amino acids), resulting in a faster rate of absorption of amino acids into the bloodstream.

    Unfortunately, protein synthesis (as in muscle) occurs at a snail's pace compared to the rapid rate at which whey's amino acids enter the bloodstream. That is, the amino acids are absorbed faster than your muscles' protein-building machinery can make efficient use of them.

    In addition, high levels of certain amino acids can be toxic to your tissues. Thus, much of whey's rapidly absorbed amino acids are accordingly 'burned up', or oxidized, so as to clear them out of the bloodstream. The oxidation of amino acids occurs in preference to that of fat. Thus, rapidly absorped proteins, such as whey, may be expected to suppress the burning of fat and promote fat gain (arguably not an issue, of course, unless you're consuming too many calories).

    In short, the faster your protein supplement is absorbed into your bloodstream as amino acids, the more likely those amino acids are to be 'wasted' (oxidized) rather than channeled into the building of new tissue (e.g., muscle) proteins. Hmm...

    Nevertheless, combining casein with whey, as well as other protein supplements, such as casein, may offer some benefits.

    Colostrum contains a plethora of biologically active components beyond its protein contents. These include growth factors like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I). IGF-I, a 'messenger' of growth hormone (GH), has long been worshipped by bodybuilders as a muscle-enhancing molecule to be reckoned with.

    I have long questioned whether colostrum holds any utility for bodybuilders like myself who 'simply' wish to pack on muscle tissue in the absence of additional (or alongside a concomitant reduction in) body fat.

    Animal studies seem to suggest that colostrum's growth factors exert their effects largely at the intestinal level (e.g., supporting the growth of intestinal tissue), though not entirely so.

    Then there is the question of the bioavailability of colostrum's IGF-I in the adult human: Can it get into the bloodstream and thence the muscles so as to enhance muscle growth?

    In terms of its electrical character, IGF-I is a basic protein. Thus, it's pretty happy (stable) in the acid environment of your gut. But when it gets into the intestine, protein-digesting enzymes can cleave it into pieces, rendering it biologically inactive (i.e., now a mere source of amino acids).

    This brings us back to casein. Casein appears to be capable of protecting biologically active proteins by extending their life time in the intestine. This may extend to biologically active proteins in the colostrum supplements, and possibly whey, that you now see on the retain shelf....or maybe not. Controlled experiments will determine this, perhaps.

    Casein has been shown to increase the half-life of IGF-I in the upper part of the small intestine (duodenum) from 2 to > 30 minutes (similar to its half-life in serum), with 80% of duodental IGF-I still intact after 60 minutes. The same effect of casein is seen with epidermal growth factor (EGF), a related peptide.

    Will combining casein with colostrum allow IGF-I to get into your bloodstream and treat your body to a muscle-building and/or fat-reducing delight? That's highly questionable, but possible.

    Keep in mind, too, that local IGF-I production, i.e., that which occurs right inside your muscles themselves, seems to play the most important role in building bigger muscles. The IGF-I that floats about in your blood stream seems of lesser importance.

    Thus, even if a casein-rich product containing IGF-I from colostrum did manage to affect an increase in blood IGF-I levels, it might not affect intramuscular IGF-I levels sufficiently to trigger growth of this tissue. And perhaps IGF-I that isn't "asked for", i.e., as through pumping iron (which can increase muscle production of IGF-I and its associated receptor) isn't all that useful anyways.

    Just some thoughts.

    To tidy this mess of ideas up for you, casein seems to protect biologically active proteins, such as those found in colostrum (and possibly whey) from destruction/inactivation in the intestine. Thus, adding casein to such products (or leaving milk intact) may be a good thing for your physical apperance and overall health.

    Please send me your comments and/or questions. If you've had experiences with colostrum before, particularly in regards to body composition, please do share.

    I really appreciate your attention and continued interest!

    Sincerely,
    Robert Thoburn
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  2. #2
    Registered User robertthoburn's Avatar
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    references for colostrum discussion (above)

    Here are the references pertaining to casein's protective effect on IGF-I:

    REFERENCES
    Playford RJ, Woodman AC, Clark P et al. (1993). Effect of luminal growth factor preservation on intestinal growth. Lancet, 342: 843.

    Xian CJ, Shoubridge CA, Read LC (1995). Degradation of IGF-I in the adult rat gastrointestinal tract is limited by a specific antiserum or the dietary protein casein. J Endocrinol, 146: 215.
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  3. #3
    Registered User robertthoburn's Avatar
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    IGF-I colostrum product

    Further to my colostrum/milk proteins piece, I'd like to add that if you want further updates on these matters, send me a note at:

    robertthoburn@hotmail.com

    I am collaborating with a University research scientist who has developed an efficient means of extracting IGF-I from colostrum, as for use in nutritional preparations.

    My interest is in using such products for body composition enhancement. However, the scientist I refers to feels at this time that gut health and immune system support may be the most likely benefits.

    It would be interesting to study the impact on body composition of an IGF-I rich protein preparation containing a heft dose of casein (i.e., to confer protection on IGF-I). We are looking into preparing such a product, and clinicals on healthy humans would be a natural step in this regard.

    Thanks for listening!

    Appreciatively,
    Robert Thoburn
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  4. #4
    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Hey Robert,

    Interesting info you got there.
    I have heard the opposite concerning colostrum's absorption though. i.e. It should be taken on empty stomach with nothing else in order to get into the bloodstream as quickly as possible without being altered.

    Your theory sounds logical too.

    I was thinking of giving Reflex's Fusion a go; a mix of whey + colostrum (about 15g of whey for 10g of colostrum), but didn't get the opportunity due to other expenses.

    A double-blind long term controlled study should be interesting as far as colostrum is concerned.

    Keep us updated on your findings.

    Thanks.
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    Very Old Member RippedUp's Avatar
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    Rob, and anyone interested.


    I should receive a jug of Reflex's Fusion in the next 2 days.

    Here are the specs:

    Nutrition Information per 46gm Serving

    Protein 32 grams
    Carbs 5 grams
    Fat 2 grams
    Colostrum 10 grams

    Ingredients: Micro filtered whey protein concentrate & cross flow micro filtered whey protein isolate (43% ß- Lactoglobulin, 18% Glycomacropeptide, 16% Lactoferrin & Others, 15% a- Lactalbumin, 5% Immunoglobulin, 3% Bovine Serum Albumin.), freeze dried bovine colostrum(standardised to 18% IgG),flavourings, natural colourings, artificial sweeteners (aspartame*, acesulfame k), Lactospore®(6 billion VO/gm), Digezyme®(digestive enzyme blend).

    So that's 10g of colostrum per 32g of protein.


    I'll be taking about 1-2 servings/day. I'm currently dieting, but trying to maintain bodyweight - i.e. changing body composition. (currently @ 8% BF - goal is 7% or lower)

    Will keep you updated.


    Thanks.
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  6. #6
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    Very interesting!

    I've had friends that began supplementing with standardized Bovine Colostrum(1st Milk) and it definitely has PROFOUND effects!
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Inb4Layne.








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    Originally Posted by RossErstling View Post
    Very interesting!

    I've had friends that began supplementing with standardized Bovine Colostrum(1st Milk) and it definitely has PROFOUND effects!
    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
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    Originally Posted by WarEeyore View Post
    *crosses fingers*
    8 year old thread.
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    Originally Posted by RossErstling View Post
    Very interesting!

    I've had friends that began supplementing with standardized Bovine Colostrum(1st Milk) and it definitely has PROFOUND effects!
    Why the hell are you bumping 8 year old threads only to say "I know a guy..."?
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    Originally Posted by On Fire View Post
    8 year old thread.
    HAHA. I dun goofed. Guess that's what i get for not looking at post dates.

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    Originally Posted by shadar View Post
    why the hell are you bumping 8 year old threads only to say "i know a guy..."?
    he knows the situation bro
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    Thumbs up Colostrum Fast Vs Slow Proteins

    Hi Robert,

    I really like what Im reading here. I have only started reading about colostrum a few months ago. Im no body builder or an athlete but was very curious about how the very beneficial transfer and growth factors contained in colostrum will make their way into our immune, muscle and tissue systems. All articles I read seem to agree that by the time colostrum reaches the small intestine all its factors have now been transformed into its usual milky amino acids composition so what happenned to IGF1 and2 epidermal growth factors and IGG and other immunoglobulins? The fact that casein plays a protective role in protecting these precious molecules from proteolytic enzymes in the small gut is quite fascinating and we gonna need more and more clinical trials and double folded blind studies not only on colostrum but combinational supplements that contain colostrum and concentrated egg yolks, hyaluronic acids, chondroiten sulphates and Glucosamine/GAGS combinations can all together play and extraordinary important role in building and repair and fight the aging cycle!


    Kind Regards

    Marco




    Originally Posted by robertthoburn View Post
    If you've ever entertained the idea of using a colostrum supplement for bodybuilding purposes, you might find what I'm about to share interesting, and hopefully useful.

    If you have used a colostrum supplement in an effort to enhance body composition, please share your experiences --bad, good or indifferent!

    I warn you that I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed on the subject of colostrum (nor anything in particular), but I have learned some interesting things from research scientists that are.

    Milk, as most of you know, is a mixture of two major proteins, whey and casein. Colostrum, or 'first milk', is produced by mammals in the first 1-4 days of nursing. In cows, colostrum is produced up to about the 6th milking.

    Think of colostrum as milk with a built-in 'pharmacy'. Colostrum is teaming with microbe-fighting, tissue-building factors, all ready to go to work on the immature, and desperately dependent infant animal.

    Frequently, milk proteins are separated and sold as individual supplements (e.g., whey protein isolate).

    Not surprisingly, however, research is beginning to suggest that leaving casein and whey together (i.e., as nature gives them to us) may offer superior benefits. (Again, I say "may", as I'm to a certain extent theorizing here.). Casein seems to be especially important in this regard.

    Whey is commonly described as a ‘fast’ protein, meaning it is quickly digested and absorbed. Casein is considered ‘slow’ by comparison. Thus, popular in the bodybuilding community is the notion that combining whey and casein will offer rapid, yet sustained delivery of amino acids to the body's tissues (e.g., your muscles).

    Interestingly enough, however, the differences between casein and whey in terms of amino acid absorption seem to disappear within the context of a mixed meal. Furthermore, when it comes to digestion and absorption, it could be argued that faster is not necessarily better ---quite the contrary, in fact.

    Whey protein tends to 'dump' into the small intestine relatively more quickly than does casein. This is associated with a more rapid exposure ot the intestinal cells to the products of its digestion (peptides, amino acids), resulting in a faster rate of absorption of amino acids into the bloodstream.

    Unfortunately, protein synthesis (as in muscle) occurs at a snail's pace compared to the rapid rate at which whey's amino acids enter the bloodstream. That is, the amino acids are absorbed faster than your muscles' protein-building machinery can make efficient use of them.

    In addition, high levels of certain amino acids can be toxic to your tissues. Thus, much of whey's rapidly absorbed amino acids are accordingly 'burned up', or oxidized, so as to clear them out of the bloodstream. The oxidation of amino acids occurs in preference to that of fat. Thus, rapidly absorped proteins, such as whey, may be expected to suppress the burning of fat and promote fat gain (arguably not an issue, of course, unless you're consuming too many calories).

    In short, the faster your protein supplement is absorbed into your bloodstream as amino acids, the more likely those amino acids are to be 'wasted' (oxidized) rather than channeled into the building of new tissue (e.g., muscle) proteins. Hmm...

    Nevertheless, combining casein with whey, as well as other protein supplements, such as casein, may offer some benefits.

    Colostrum contains a plethora of biologically active components beyond its protein contents. These include growth factors like insulin-like growth factor-I (IGF-I). IGF-I, a 'messenger' of growth hormone (GH), has long been worshipped by bodybuilders as a muscle-enhancing molecule to be reckoned with.

    I have long questioned whether colostrum holds any utility for bodybuilders like myself who 'simply' wish to pack on muscle tissue in the absence of additional (or alongside a concomitant reduction in) body fat.

    Animal studies seem to suggest that colostrum's growth factors exert their effects largely at the intestinal level (e.g., supporting the growth of intestinal tissue), though not entirely so.

    Then there is the question of the bioavailability of colostrum's IGF-I in the adult human: Can it get into the bloodstream and thence the muscles so as to enhance muscle growth?

    In terms of its electrical character, IGF-I is a basic protein. Thus, it's pretty happy (stable) in the acid environment of your gut. But when it gets into the intestine, protein-digesting enzymes can cleave it into pieces, rendering it biologically inactive (i.e., now a mere source of amino acids).

    This brings us back to casein. Casein appears to be capable of protecting biologically active proteins by extending their life time in the intestine. This may extend to biologically active proteins in the colostrum supplements, and possibly whey, that you now see on the retain shelf....or maybe not. Controlled experiments will determine this, perhaps.

    Casein has been shown to increase the half-life of IGF-I in the upper part of the small intestine (duodenum) from 2 to > 30 minutes (similar to its half-life in serum), with 80% of duodental IGF-I still intact after 60 minutes. The same effect of casein is seen with epidermal growth factor (EGF), a related peptide.

    Will combining casein with colostrum allow IGF-I to get into your bloodstream and treat your body to a muscle-building and/or fat-reducing delight? That's highly questionable, but possible.

    Keep in mind, too, that local IGF-I production, i.e., that which occurs right inside your muscles themselves, seems to play the most important role in building bigger muscles. The IGF-I that floats about in your blood stream seems of lesser importance.

    Thus, even if a casein-rich product containing IGF-I from colostrum did manage to affect an increase in blood IGF-I levels, it might not affect intramuscular IGF-I levels sufficiently to trigger growth of this tissue. And perhaps IGF-I that isn't "asked for", i.e., as through pumping iron (which can increase muscle production of IGF-I and its associated receptor) isn't all that useful anyways.

    Just some thoughts.

    To tidy this mess of ideas up for you, casein seems to protect biologically active proteins, such as those found in colostrum (and possibly whey) from destruction/inactivation in the intestine. Thus, adding casein to such products (or leaving milk intact) may be a good thing for your physical apperance and overall health.

    Please send me your comments and/or questions. If you've had experiences with colostrum before, particularly in regards to body composition, please do share.

    I really appreciate your attention and continued interest!

    Sincerely,
    Robert Thoburn
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    Originally Posted by mredisione View Post
    Hi Robert,

    I really like what Im reading here. I have only started reading about colostrum a few months ago. Im no body builder or an athlete but was very curious about how the very beneficial transfer and growth factors contained in colostrum will make their way into our immune, muscle and tissue systems. All articles I read seem to agree that by the time colostrum reaches the small intestine all its factors have now been transformed into its usual milky amino acids composition so what happenned to IGF1 and2 epidermal growth factors and IGG and other immunoglobulins? The fact that casein plays a protective role in protecting these precious molecules from proteolytic enzymes in the small gut is quite fascinating and we gonna need more and more clinical trials and double folded blind studies not only on colostrum but combinational supplements that contain colostrum and concentrated egg yolks, hyaluronic acids, chondroiten sulphates and Glucosamine/GAGS combinations can all together play and extraordinary important role in building and repair and fight the aging cycle!


    Kind Regards

    Marco
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    Originally Posted by RossErstling View Post
    Very interesting!

    I've had friends that began supplementing with standardized Bovine Colostrum(1st Milk) and it definitely has PROFOUND effects!
    can u elaborate please.
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