The B-Ball Girl that refuses to face the flag

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:09 AM

Just thought I'd start a discussion on this, I wanted to see what people's opinions on it were. Here's mine. If anybody doesn't know I'll give the quick summary. There's this girl bball player from Manhattanville College that refuses to face the flag during the national anthem. I think it is total bull**** to not face the flag. The flag represents everybody that has died so you can have the freedoms that you enjoy and take for granted everyday. She claims that the flag "represents all the people that have been oppressed to build this country" well then if you dont like our country GET THE **** OUT. Nobody is forcing you to stay here, if you don't like it why don't you go to Iraq and see how fun life is there, you'd fly back to the US pretty damn quick. When you refuse to face the flag you disprespect anybody who has ever fought or had a relative fought in any war or died for this country. Yes, I realize that technically she is protected by the Constitution but I still think it's total bull**** and there are just certain things you don't do, and one of those is refusing to face the flag. There are tons of people that disagree with american politics but they still face and respect the flag. On top of this it also disrupts the team atmosphere. If you don't want to respect the flag then fine do all the flag desecrating you want in your own home but don't do it in a public/team setting, it disrupts team chemistry and unfairly draws teammates into YOUR protest, NOT the TEAM'S. If i were the coach I would kick her off the team, not for refusing to respect the flag but for refusing to respect her teammates.

**Silent Jhay** · 03-02-2003, 11:18 AM

I'll just add a little gasoline...

So your saying that when she's exercising her FREEDOM to not face the flag during the anthem, that she should leave?

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Silent Jhay
I'll just add a little gasoline...

So your saying that when she's exercising her FREEDOM to not face the flag during the anthem, that she should leave?

I'm saying it's bull****, If you think our country is so terrible why do you live here, obviously it's not that bad if it gives you the goddamn right to carry on your protest.

**Paul Vitti** · 03-02-2003, 11:25 AM

bump....this bitch needs some respect also she is one of those people who likes to start up controversey....she can go suck a fat camel cock.....thats where she should move.

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 11:27 AM

Sounds like she's just trying to cause trouble and get attention. I mean if the flag bothers her that much, she could face it with her eyes closed. That way she doesn't offend anyone else with her little protest. Instead, she has to draw attention to herself by making her feelings known and turning herself into a spectacle on the court.

Then again, the coach could always reserve his/her right not to give this girl any playing time. Freedom does work both ways, so be careful what you wish for.

**Silent Jhay** · 03-02-2003, 11:28 AM

I really doubt that when she turns away from the flag, she's not protesting this nation and what it stands for. I'm assuming she's protesting the ****ing moron of a president and the impending war.

Your assuming that she is protesting the country as a whole.

**EXclusive Cam** · 03-02-2003, 11:28 AM

she can do whatever she wants, end of discussion

**derekmac** · 03-02-2003, 11:28 AM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
Just thought I'd start a discussion on this, I wanted to see what people's opinions on it were. Here's mine. If anybody doesn't know I'll give the quick summary. There's this girl bball player from Manhattanville College that refuses to face the flag during the national anthem. I think it is total bull**** to not face the flag. The flag represents everybody that has died so you can have the freedoms that you enjoy and take for granted everyday. She claims that the flag "represents all the people that have been oppressed to build this country" well then if you dont like our country GET THE **** OUT. Nobody is forcing you to stay here, if you don't like it why don't you go to Iraq and see how fun life is there, you'd fly back to the US pretty damn quick. When you refuse to face the flag you disprespect anybody who has ever fought or had a relative fought in any war or died for this country. Yes, I realize that technically she is protected by the Constitution but I still think it's total bull**** and there are just certain things you don't do, and one of those is refusing to face the flag. There are tons of people that disagree with american politics but they still face and respect the flag. On top of this it
also disrupts the team atmosphere. If you don't want to respect the flag then fine do all the flag desecrating you want in your own home but don't do it in a public/team setting, it disrupts team chemistry and unfairly draws teammates into YOUR protest, NOT the TEAM'S. If i were the coach I would kick her off the team, not for refusing to respect the flag but for refusing to respect her teammates.

Bump!!

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by Silent Jhay
I really doubt that when she turns away from the flag, she's not protesting this nation and what it stands for. I'm assuming she's protesting the ****ing moron of a president and the impending war.

Your assuming that she is protesting the country as a whole.

I watched her interview today, she basically said she thinks the US is evil. She mentioned NOTHING about the war. I think she's just an attention whore looking to draw some notice to her cause.

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by EXclusive Cam
she can do whatever she wants, end of discussion

Yes she CAN do whatever she wants, that's the beauty of the US, but refusing to face the flag disrespects anybody that has ever died for the country, even if you disagree with the politics of our country at least do it out of respect for the families of the people who have died so you could carry on your little protest.

**The Iron Lord** · 03-02-2003, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
I'm saying it's bull****, If you think our country is so terrible why do you live here, obviously it's not that bad if it gives you the goddamn right to carry on your protest.

So, she has the right to protest, but shouldn't exercise it? Okay.

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 11:32 AM

bumpo
id kick her off my team
thats bull****
fvk her
i hope she goes to serve as a human shield in Iraq

if I was playing against her
id make sure to foul her NICE and HARD too when she goes in for a layup

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by The Iron Lord
So, she has the right to protest, but shouldn't exercise it? Okay.

I'm just saying you should give respect to the people that have fought and died for this country. Also if you wish to not salute the flag then just stay in the locker room, problem solved: you don't have to look at the flag and nobody gets pissed off.

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 11:32 AM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
I watched her interview today, she basically said she thinks NOTHING. I think she's just a whore.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

BUMB

**Marciano** · 03-02-2003, 11:34 AM

i'm all for personal freedom, but i think people need to back up their convictions. by turning her back on the flag she's not just protesting the war, she's protesting the whole country. if she wants to just protest the war, she could wear a patch or something, or an armband. if she turns her back on the flag she's turning her back on the country itself. and like other people have said, though it's her right to protest whatever she wants in this country, if she really has such much trouble with america, she should move somewhere else. ofcourse she won't. she stayed, took advantage of our public school system, plays basketball, which women in tons of other countries can't even do, will get a job, make more than women in almost any other country, and so on and so on. in the end, the only statement she's making is about her ignorance and shortsightedness.

**BPP** · 03-02-2003, 11:34 AM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
she's just an attention whore

bump
shes just tryin to make a name for herself
i hopeshe gets booed in every place she goes

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by The Iron Lord
So, she has the right to protest, but shouldn't exercise it? Okay.

By turning her back on the flag, she's protesting her own right to protest along with everything else this country stands for. And what does her little protest accomplish anyway? If she really hates this country and everything it stands for, she should either work to change it or leave. A personal protest is just another way of telling us she's too lazy to do anything about her problem.

**Paul Vitti** · 03-02-2003, 11:38 AM

bumb on that ....she is a tru scuzz ball...we dont need people like her in our country......i am emailin her school and displayin myfeelings of the situation...

**Babs** · 03-02-2003, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by thewrestler14
I'm saying it's bull****, If you think our country is so terrible why do you live here, obviously it's not that bad if it gives you the goddamn right to carry on your protest.

Ever seen "Born on the 4th of July" at the end where Cruise says people say love it or leave it. And he says he loves America, and that that is why he is protesting. That is your answer. Although I do not know whether her protest is as warranted in that she might be being somewhat naive about it. Peace

**Babs** · 03-02-2003, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by John Promise
By turning her back on the flag, she's protesting her own right to protest along with everything else this country stands for. And what does her little protest accomplish anyway? If she really hates this country and everything it stands for, she should either work to change it or leave. A personal protest is just another way of telling us she's too lazy to do anything about her problem.

Fair points, I did also think about the fact that if the flag stands for freedom she is turning on her freedom. The problem is that she did not intend to turn away from freedom when she did, she only intended to turn her back on the goverment's position. So it is her fault sort of for not thinking enough to realize that not everyone was going to know what it was that she was specifically protesting. Although to any rational thinking persom I think they would know enough that she was not intending the latter. But if you believe that intentions have nothing to do with the matter then please someone give me and argument why they do not matter. Looking forward to your answers. PEace

**thx10050** · 03-02-2003, 11:45 AM

"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press.

It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech.

It is the soldier, not the organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate.

It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protestor to burn the flag."

-Charles M. Province

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by Babs
Fair points, I did also think about the fact that if the flag stands for freedom she is turning on her freedom. The problem is that she did not intend to turn away from freedom when she did, she only intended to turn her back on the goverment's position. So it is her fault sort of for not thinking enough to realize that not everyone was going to know what it was that she was specifically protesting. Although to any rational thinking persom I think they would know enough that she was not intending the latter. But if you believe that intentions have nothing to do with the matter then please someone give me and argument why they do not matter. Looking forward to your answers. PEace

She had an interview on ESPN this morning, she mentioned how the flag represents the people that the US has killed and oppressed and mentioned NOTHING about the war.

**goblin6** · 03-02-2003, 11:51 AM

Felt I should add something to this.
One while it angers me that she will not face the flag, it is her right to do so. And those rights are protected, you can't uphold some and not others. People have the right to voice their disapproval. The cadets at the maritime acadamy are a prime example. They stood in front of the bench holding American flags for the entire second half.
I also think it is a distraction to the team, if she does not want to face the falg during the anthem, which she knows is going to be played, then stay in the locker room until its over. While she is enduring protest and condmenation she is not really giving anything up, unlike Ali, or the Mexico City Olympic fist raisers(whose names escape me at the moment).
One last thing, she is not an attention whore. She released one statement and has not talked about it since. She ahs also been doing this since the beginning of the season, its only now that the media has picked up on it.
Just my two cents.

**jay81** · 03-02-2003, 11:53 AM

It's still legal to burn/desecrate the Australian flag in Australia as disgusting as that is. I agree about that girl, if she doesn't like the USA she should leave. It's individual administrations that were responsible for any mishaps, not the men who died protecting it or the country and institution itself.

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by goblin6
Felt I should add something to this.
One while it angers me that she will not face the flag, it is her right to do so. And those rights are protected, you can't uphold some and not others. People have the right to voice their disapproval. The cadets at the maritime acadamy are a prime example. They stood in front of the bench holding American flags for the entire second half.
I also think it is a distraction to the team, if she does not want to face the falg during the anthem, which she knows is going to be played, then stay in the locker room until its over. While she is enduring protest and condmenation she is not really giving anything up, unlike Ali, or the Mexico City Olympic fist raisers(whose names escape me at the moment).
One last thing, she is not an attention whore. She released one statement and has not talked about it since. She ahs also been doing this since the beginning of the season, its only now that the media has picked up on it.
Just my two cents.

valid point, but you have to admit that it pisses you off.

**Donovan t.** · 03-02-2003, 11:56 AM

i am thinking of not doing the flag salute in school because your pledging alleagiance to the usa when in the bible it says that god doesnt want you pkledging alligance to anything or anyone but him!!!!!!!!!!

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by Babs
But if you believe that intentions have nothing to do with the matter then please someone give me and argument why they do not matter. Looking forward to your answers. PEace

Something I thought about from the local news. The band, Great White played at The Station in West Warwick, RI a couple weeks ago. Their intention was to play some great music and put on an entertaining show. 97 people died when the pyrotechnics from their show burned the club down. They didn't intend to torch the place and kill people, and they had no idea it would happen since these pyrotechnics had been a regular part of their show. Their only intention was a night of fun, but it became a night of tragedy.

That girl knows what the flag stands for with the majority of people in this country. If she doesn't, then she needs to take a basic US history course...and not one of those feminist history courses telling her the flag is a symbol of male domination.

The flag represents everything about this country...every little bit of history and tradition in all our 300+ years of existence...good and bad. You just can't turn your back on the flag without turning your back on the good it represents...with a symbol, it's all or nothing. You can't select what part of a symbol you're protesting because you have to protest the whole symbol.

If she stood outside the basketball game with a sign telling everyone what it was she was protesting, or she wore a t shirt giving her position, that would be one thing, but she's choosing to protest her issues by turning her back on a concrete symbol of everything this country stands for.

**Pinch** · 03-02-2003, 11:59 AM

I agree with her

Our country was supposedly founded on the basis of freedom, but we HAD slavery, we KILLED indians, we STOLE their land, we STOLE spanish territory...

She has her right to not face the flag...

**thewrestler14** · 03-02-2003, 12:00 PM

Originally posted by John Promise
Something I thought about from the local news. The band, Great White played at The Station in West Warwick, RI a couple weeks ago. Their intention was to play some great music and put on an entertaining show. 97 people died when the pyrotechnics from their show burned the club down. They didn't intend to torch the place and kill people, and they had no idea it would happen since these pyrotechnics had been a regular part of their show. Their only intention was a night of fun, but it became a night of tragedy.

That girl knows what the flag stands for with the majority of people in this country. If she doesn't, then she needs to take a basic US history course...and not one of those feminist history courses telling her the flag is a symbol of male domination.

The flag represents everything about this country...every little bit of history and tradition in all our 300+ years of existence...good and bad. You just can't turn your back on the flag without turning your back on the good it represents...with a symbol, it's all or nothing. You can't select what part of a symbol you're protesting because you have to protest the whole symbol.

If she stood outside the basketball game with a sign telling everyone what it was she was protesting, or she wore a t shirt giving her position, that would be one thing, but she's choosing to protest her issues by turning her back on a concrete symbol of everything this country stands for.

bump!

**John Promise** · 03-02-2003, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by Donovan t.
i am thinking of not doing the flag salute in school because your pledging alleagiance to the usa when in the bible it says that god doesnt want you pkledging alligance to anything or anyone but him!!!!!!!!!!

And you think God's going to be the one to protect you when the planes come crashing into our buildings? The US government crippled Al Queda. The US government tightened security at airports to curtail further hijackings. The US government is the one trying to protect you and your freedoms so 9/11 doesn't happen again.

God didn't even give those people a chance to absolve their sins before those planes incinerated their offices. And even if they were free of sins, how are their bodies supposed to join their souls after the appocolypse if the bodies were incinerated to nothing? When the end of the world comes, there are going to be four thousand people without bodies because God didn't even try to protect them.

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